What am I doing? Someone give me a hand up here...!
This counselling thing is really difficult- we made the effort but I don't know why. The Ostrich sits there all laid back and says he's fine about eveything,except he thinks I want to control him all the time- he says I've made the skids feel unwelcome in our home and it wouldn't be so difficult to leave me. Except he hasn't- he's still here thank-you very much and has made no attempt to go.
I was tired, stressed and frustrated-we ran out of time and we've both come home feeling like shit- he's gone off to his cave and I'm exhausted.
The therapist had to stay the night in a hotel because the weather was bad, she couldn't get home so she was tired too. I think she wanted to bang our heads together. She said couselling was really about emotions and feelings, which The Ostrich doesn't seem to have.
She also said that they had lots of leaflets about 'blended families' but these wouldn't be any good because our kids are adults!
At the end The Ostrich said he was glad to have a responsible adult around (meaning her) as if I was just a child!
What really got me mad was that he said he didn't like the way I was trying to control him- like he does not let his offspring control him- ever!!!
How do you deal with the after-counselling comedown? We are supposed to be going back next week but I don't think I can stand another day of this-I just want to run off to a hotel and drink wine 'till I pass out.
Please give me some tips on how to deal with this- will it get better? Or am I wasting my time??
To me, it sounds like you are
To me, it sounds like you are wasting your time.
Your husband doesn't really seem that interested in this relationship or taking it back to where it was, when the two of you were happy. I mean, he said that it wouldn't be so difficult to leave you? He was glad to have a responsible adult (the counselor) around?
Did the counselor ask what each of you wants and expects to get out of counseling? Because I'm thinking it's two VERY different things. In which case, it won't work.
No, I don't think it will- he
No, I don't think it will- he's still playing games with me and I've had enough. He isn't interested in the relationship.Maybe I needed to hear from it and he sadi it.However, when I said what are you waiting for it was all about well when I do this or when I do that... truth is he doesn't have the guts to leave but I ain't stopping him. I have two weeks holiday coming and I'm not spending them here- he can see the selling agents and do the repairs. I'm looking for what I can do.
We shall see what this week brings, but it won't bring much. I've had it!
The Ostrich said he's fine
The Ostrich said he's fine with everything, but he was thinking of leaving you? How is that being fine with everything?
I think he is using the threat of leaving you to whip you back into the shape he wants. Your interests and needs don't seem to matter to him. He is ok with his kids controlling him. He's not concerned that you are uncomfortable going to his children's house, only that they are not comfortable/unable to come to yours. Since he's happy to be their doormat, he thinks you should do the same thing.
I think you need to put your needs down on a piece of paper. Take some time and really think about them. What do you want the rest of your life to look like, how do you want to live your golden years, what do you expect from your husband during this time and how are you willing to meet HIS needs? I'd go to another counseling session, read out loud to your DH and counselor what your needs/wants are and contrast that with the current situation.
When you are done reading them, ask your counselor if the needs you just cited are reasonable or unreasonable. If she states they are reasonable, turn to your DH and ask him if he is able/willing to help you achieve those needs/wants. If not, you will have your answer on the state of your marriage. You will then need to decide if you split or decide to live the rest of your days as roommates.
Unfortunately this counseling session could prove to be the most painful one. But it could be the most freeing, getting reality out in the open so you can then know what to do next.
You had mentioned previously your DH's marital track record. I think there is good reason for that. He's focused solely on himself and his own needs; if he has ever heard the word "compromise" he does not know what it means.
Hi Lamby!
Hi Lamby!
After calming down I told him we needed to talk- without going into it too much I told him that I still loved him and wanted him to be happy, and that if he loved me he should want the same for me.
He doesn't love me- my needs mean nothing and what he really wants is to be on his own.
That is more or less the third time he's said that so I asked him how he was going to make that happen and he couldn't give me a straight answer. I called his bluff- I'm ready to go. I suggested we go back one last time for counselling and then we get the house valued and split the proceeds. I'm not sure if I'm bothered about the counselling.
I am 60 years old, as someone said to me recently do I want to be in this position when I'm 70? The answer to that is no- I have too much living to do to waste another breath here. My daughter was planning to come here for Easter but I'm going to ask if I can go there- I shall look around and see how viable it will be for me to support myself and live a little closer to her. I may not come back. I have family and friends who love me and I have my own self-esteem.
I have made too many excuses for him and maybe things will be easier than I'd thought. Can they be worse? I can take my beloved books, pictures, heirlooms with me and leave him with his blankness.
I can do this!
While marriage counseling didn't save my first marriage
... it certainly helped me to get back in touch with the person I enjoy being. It even made the last 7mos of cohabitating with my XW far better than the previous year or so had been.
When one spouse won't work the counseling process, it is infuriating to the other spouse and in may ways probably to the therapist too. When my XW stood up and walked out of the last session she ever attended I kept seeing the therapist for another few months. When the X walked out there was a palpable decompression in the therapy dynamic and I could see a physical change come over the Doc.
My primary goal for counseling was to address the nearly complete lack of intimacy in that marriage. Unbeknownst to me at the time my XW was shopping the booty all over town for nearly our whole marriage and there was little to ZERO intimacy within our marriage. Our therapist assured me that we would get to the intimacy topic but we had to do some other work first. So we spent months discussing me and my relationship with my family, my XW and her relationship with her family. I even had a session with the therapist and my family and my XW had the same with her family and the therapist.
After all of that the day came in session when the therapist announced that we would not start working on the intimacy issues. At that moment my XW stood up and pronounced "I don't have any problems with sex!" and walked out. Never to return to counseling.
I kept working with the therapist until she finally just put it bluntly that I was fine and no longer needed her services. She informed me that I was welcome to keep scheduling sessions but that she had no idea that when I walked into her office nearly 9mos earlier that there was a dynamic, energetic and passionate young man with a "childlike zest for life" under my very hurt facade.
I have made it a point to not lose touch with that guy since. I send a check in to her practice website periodically just to say hello and thank her for her help at that challenging point in my life.
So, do what you need to do to be okay and don't keep undermining you own efforts to heal. Take care of you and when you are ready... move on to the next phase of your life's adventure.
Thanks Rags- I know you've
Thanks Rags- I know you've told me your story before. What makes me finally realise I'll be ok is the wonderful support I'm getting from my friends- I don't need the counselling. I need to work this week and then I'm going to stay with my daughter and clear my head for a while- I may look at house boats when I'm there! I still have my health and my sanity (thanks to Steptalk) and what else do I need except my self respect.
When The Ostrich was talking to me today I kept looking at the photos of my late mum, my brothers and my kids and it kept me calm and focused. I will find work and I will find another home and you're right- it will be just another adventure!
Freedom is a wonderful thing - EMBRACE IT!
Fairyo, I am glad you have turned a corner and realized what lies before you is better than what lies behind. That includes your so-called husband.
I am in the same demographic you are, and let me tell you that my "give-a-crap" meter at this age is spring-loaded. I am well aware that the clock is ticking and I won't waste any time jettisoning people who are themselves a waste of my time.
If my SO ever came to me and said he didn't love me, didn't care about my happiness/needs, and wanted to be alone I'd be out of here so fast his head would spin. My goodness, you would have to handcuff me to get me to STAY any length of time beyond what was absolutely necessary! In your case, don't wait for HIM to make the first move - you must do so.
I think you have your head on solid and know what you need to do. Forget the counseling, IMO. It is impossible to change people at this stage of life. This is not some young guy who still needs to figure out how relationships work. He knows better.
By nature I am not a person who is self-absorbed and I have always tended to care more about others. But I'm beginning to see that in this phase of life it is an imperative that my thinking must shift. I'm not talking about selfishness but self-care.
Jump into the refreshing pool of loving yourself first Others who really love you will already be there ready to ride the waves with you.
I really thought I'd hit the
I really thought I'd hit the jack-pot with him- I think I was so reluctant to let go because all my money is here- this is where I work, have made friends, and lovely home- but you are right I have to get myself out of here. This afternoon I was going to book myself into a hotel and I may still do that, but I think I need to keep calm and go to work and then go to my daughters for a while. I don't want to waste money on hotel bills when I have my comfy bed here!
I don't want to cut off my nose to spite my face- I can be very savvy when I have to be. Yes, the counselling was and is a waste of time and money. I don't need to fight for this relationship at all.
I have got plenty of people who love me far more than he does, and they like swimming too! He is a spineless lump of jelly of a man who has the heart the size of a peanut. In fact, that's his name now he's taken his head out of the sand- PeanutHeart!
"She also said that they had
"She also said that they had lots of leaflets about 'blended families' but these wouldn't be any good because our kids are adults!"
Maybe part of the problem is that the marital relationship w/fairyo is being addressed but not the enmeshement with mini wife OSD. The *children* and their refusal to blend with you on any level are a huge part of the problem between you and your husband. He wants to blame you for all the problems but refuses to see that it's his dysfunctional relationship w/his kids that is destroying the marriage. This dynamic wouldn't work with any mentally healthy woman so most of the issue lies with his behavior.
I wouldn't say you are wasting your time but rather learning valuable lessons about yourself, the ostrich and this dynamic. Maybe it'll help, perhaps he'll see some tiny sliver of light. Who knows, but it will be good for you to get validation that you are not crazy.
My first marriage went through several bouts of counseling that xH begrudgingly went to because his mother was paying for it. The counselfing didn't save our relationship but a big part of it was because xH didn't want to change. It was hard going through the process of counseling but for me getting everything out in the open helped me be bolder and communicate my needs rather than clam up
I say stick with it for a little longer, if not for the marriage do it for you. See the counselor alone if you need to.
If you read my previous posts
Fairyo, I have followed your posts. If you read my previous posts 4 years back; I went thru a similar situation. I finally quit playing the games and made a life for myself.
The bottom line: I set boundaries for myself. I did not want a divorce, because I was in my late 60's, we had 35 years invested in our marriage, plus property, no debt, etc. I did not want to start over at my age; it was not about money or my income, I have a nice retirement income. It was about DH thinking only about himself.
I gave DH the open door, but he was to split everything with me and provide me with a home equal to what we were living in. He wanted to stay in our home, no problem. I made an appointment with a Realtor and was insisting that he spend our savings to buy a nice home for me. Then I would be out of his hair. I was keeping my nice vehicle, the dogs, etc. He told a friend "I can't afford a divorce". He didn't want to turn loose of our money, his choice.
It was all over SD57. I have put my foot down where SD is concerned. We have kept our marriage in tact, our assets in tact, as well as building our totally different relationship. It is civil and peaceful. I am totally disengaged from his grown kids, I am civil to them, I have hobbies, friends, and my life back, with or without DH; again this is his choice; I will never back track on my boundaries and disengagement.
Since all of this, 2 months ago DH's health became very bad. His kids don't come around and guess who is taking total care of him. He is wheelchair bound and I am willing to take care of him till death do us part.
It is very difficult at times, but I am at peace and we have been married 38 years now and it is better, along with a relationship I would not have ever thought would happen. We are different people and have had many high hurdles in 38 years. It can improve, but you need to think deeply about what you want it to be and what you are willing to accept. Our marriage is mature now and we both have accepted the fact that we made the right decision for our Senior years.
If I had been younger, it would have been down the road for me, never looking back. But I put myself first for a change and I do not regret my decision in my situation.
I am sorry you are going thru this. I totally understand your feelings of despair.
Hi Sammi
I was wondering how you were- so thanks for this and hope DH is still relatively well.
First of all The Ostrich is not as wealthy as you might think- we came to this relationship as equal partners and if we split it will be on an equal footing. Neither of us could afford the lifestyle we now have together. The only benefit of splitting would be that we are both free to be closer to our respective families. Ostrich never moved far from his, as I did, but I refused to live around the corner from them, which is what he would have chosen.
I have also given him the open door- but he doesn't seem to have it in him to make the first move (if I do this he says I'm controlling!) but the ball is really very much in his court now.
He is coming to counselling, which is a positive move I think- we have our next session soon and we have decided to give it until then to make any decisions. This is too important for knee jerk reactions.
I am now thinking that he is depressed about getting old and needs to face up to having to make decisons around his retirement in less than three months time. I know this is hard, but as he has kept things so secret from me I haven't a clue how he's managing this practically, if at all.
I don't feel sorry for him- he has made some silly decisions and he has to bear the consequences of them.
We talked about his kids recently and I would seem to have it wrong. From what he says they are indifferent to me and also to him. Maybe this is the way it has always been, but I had to make it an issue because the truth of it is pretty painful for him. They don't care about either of us- I think this is a good thing- it means they are getting on with their own lives. If so, why is it that Ostrich gives them far more attention than he gives me?
I think it is because I challenge him more and he can't hack it.
I am trying very hard to keep the communication going- I've started texting him at work and he seems to appreciate this- I've started buying him little treats too. I've started to think of him as a puppy dog- which is insulting but accurate.
I know that if we split it will be the end- no contact, no friendship, no support. I will go back to live close to my family and friends and I will get by- it isn't about the money anymore.
This really isn't the hardest thing I've had to face- and I'm learning a lot about what it is to get older. It means very little- problems still arise and you have to face them- it is just the same as any other phase of your life. It is a myth there there are any 'golden' years waiting for us, at least that's how I see it.
Unlike you, I have known Ostrich for less than ten years- until recently they were the happiest years I've ever known- but I would hate to look back in ten years and feel they have been the worst.
Thank you for your support and wisdom, because of this site I know I will get peace.
When DH and I met; we lived
When DH and I met; we lived out of the back of his pickup; we had nothing. 38 years, we worked hard to obtain our nice lifestyle. I understand what you are venting here, I get it. I have followed your post and truly believe there are different issues here, which I and my DH have also experienced. Turning 60 nor turning 70 never bothered me. Like my DH always stated "it's better than the alternative". Lol...
What I read between the lines with your posts, retirement, turning 60, and boredom is an issue with your DH. It is a big change in your lives and he is realizing he is not longer a young man, making a difference at work. My DH has had health issues for 35 years. I had a career during these years, made friends, cared for him, we lost my bio sons during this time in an accident; we overcome all these hurdles, plus more.
I have never lived in the past. We had years of fun and laughter, but bad health, death, and my toxic SD57 has changed all that. All those obstacles have only made me stronger and more independent.
What I am saying here, it's how your thought process works. Fairyo, make yourself a life! Seriously, don't try to fix your DH and his life. The best way you can fix your marriage (if you want to) is to move forward.
Instead of going on and on, I'm going to use an example of what I do on a daily basis: I decide to go for an errand, I asked DH "do you want to ride along", he usually answers "no, I'm not up to it", my reply "Ok, I'll be back". I go out and get in the vehicle, run my errands, do a bit of shopping, and sometimes even stop for a Starbucks (I love my time away). I say nothing to him about his decision to stay home, I say nothing to him about my trip, I just continue to move forward, every minute of every day. His problem, not mine. If he decides to go, I am more than willing for his presence. I can not make him a person, he is not.
The door is open if he doesn't like it, he knows this. He has no place to go. His daughter won't even take care of him. He wants to stay here, be pitiful, and try to guilt me. Doesn't work. I have friends, hobbies, and my own life. He is welcome to join me any time, he knows that.
The past 2 years, my DH has changed. Guess who is calling me now, giving me hugs, and spending time with me on the patio; because I stopped cowering to him and jumping at every whim. My husband is wheelchair bound; I do everything he needs, but not everything he wants.
You stay here and vent, vent, vent; but I suggest that you let him do it his way and don't even insist that he go to a counselor, if you feel it's only agitating him. Begin by giving yourself a purpose in life; my guess is, your DH will come around, if he thinks you are enjoying life and he's not included. I might be wrong, but I believe Seniors have this change in their lives often; it's like they have close times, but mostly separate times. We enjoy our time together, but equally enjoy our private time.
Keep us posted and hang in there. (((hugs))) You make me feel better, with your posts, as others do here. I know I am not alone on this voyage.
My big mistake was asking him
My big mistake was asking him about his plans- I had planned to go away with friends and family again just as I did for the whole of last year! I do live my own life Sammi, and I have never tried to fix him in any way. I certainly have never cowered to his every whim, but when a man I have loved for almost ten years says he wants to leave me should I just ignore it?
I know we are going to get through this in one way or another but the decisions we make have to sensible and measured. I can't just walk out and neither can he, but it doesn't mean we have to be stuck like this either.
I am hanging in here, appreciating everyone's posts and especially yours Sammi. (((hugs)))
If he wants to live without
If he wants to live without you then start as you mean to gone on, stop looking after him, no more cooking, cleaning and doing his washing.
I would pay your half the bills house, electric ect. But stop shopping and cooking for him. You both are now responsible for buying and cooking for yourself.
As he not going to know what it is like to live without you while you still looking after him.
I don't 'look after' him, and
I don't 'look after' him, and never have done. We are a partnership of equals-he cooks as much as me, he washes and irons probably more than I do.
Maybe I do more cleaning but that's because I work less than he does and I love my home- also if we are going to sell it it needs to look good. The house is like my pet- it wraps itself around me like a warm blanket- every room is full of things that matter and are important to me- I know people find that difficult to understand.
He pays all the bills because that was the deal- he earns far more than I do, and we usually do the shopping together as it is something I hate but know that if I left it to him he would come back with the wrong things! We still share food, if we get to the stage where he is cooking his meal and then I cook mine I will know that is certainly the time to go...
He knows what life will be without me, that's why although he says he wants to leave he is doing nothing about it...
It is so difficult where you
Of course you should not ignore it. I have been married 38 years and I took extreme measurers to save my marriage. It is so difficult where you are right now. I fully understand it Fairyo. I didn't intend to advise you, just letting you know how I handled my situation. We all here know, each of us has our individual circumstances.
I feel very badly for you. Four years ago I hurt so badly with our separation, DH not apologizing, and all the betrayal I had discovered between DH and SD57. I do understand your hurt and frustration with your DH's attitude about wanting to leave, but not doing it. That is very unfair to you. I will never forget the hurt and betrayal and it has changed our marriage totally.
Just take care of yourself and plan ahead for your financial security. I did this and it helps. It doesn't take away the hurt, but it makes it a bit easier.
Keep us posted and I do hope things can slow down for you and it works itself out. These hurdles are no fun and should never happen to a marriage. We're all here for you. ((hugs))
One thing I know- there's no
One thing I know- there's no going back from where we are now, even if we manage to pull it back our relationship will be different. If we split, there will be no reconciliation on my part. It will be tough for me financially, but I'll get through it.
I do feel on a roller coaster but it has been another busy week work-wise- now I'm done for the Easter break I can take it more slowly and also we will be spending more time together. I don't know how I would have done this without Steptalk!
Have a nice break and relax
Have a nice break and relax with it all; you'll be fine. Things have a way of happening for the best. Good Luck and keep us informed.