BM looking for Honest opinions from steps
I was stumbling around the Internet and found this wonderful site hoping others can help me with this dilemma.
I’m a mom to two children. Ages 8 and 12. BD is controlling and high Conflict the reason I divorced him BUT Basically a good dad, the kids love him and see him often.
DH never had children of his own and We have been together for 5 years.
When I first divorced BD I allowed him to walk all over me and Basically call the shots with the kids. When I met DH he gave me a backbone to stand up to BD and push back. DH despises BD and I feel DH is taking this “pushing back” to far. Here are SOME examples. DH wanted ALL contact with BD and me by email only. Plus any email I sent or responded to from BD, DH wanted to “see first” before I sent it. If there was a word I used that sounded to “friendly” DH would want me to remove it. DH always wanted to emails to be short and cold.
I feel DH wants to piss off or Agitate BD any chance he can. For example BD may ask for extra time or to split the cost of some sport activity for the kids. Normally I would agree BUT DH will put up a stink since it’s something BD wants. Then this WILL piss off BD if I say no and don’t have a good reason. Yes DH is correct that I Legally don’t have to do anything outside the divorce agreement BUT sometimes Peace between BD is better than being right.
Now that the kids are getting older they can see the tension between BD and I and can’t help but worry this will upset them.
DH knows I hate BD so that’s not it. I think it’s the fact BD is such a dick and try’s to control everything regarding the kids. This fact sends DH into a rage to the point DH will go out of his way to get me to do the Opposite of what BD wants just to piss him off.
Opinions from steps
Your husband is right.
Your husband is right.
Your husband sounds very
Your husband sounds very controlling.
Getting you to do the opposite of what BD wants or saying no to something, just to piss him off is stupid and immature.
Sounds like for him, this has
Sounds like for him, this has nothing to do with the child but everything to do with the ex....not healthy. Unless he is seeing something you are not with BD.
Welcome to the site!
It sounds like this has become a dick measuring contest between DH and BD. If I were you I'd take back some control myself. I'd tell DH that he needs to trust you to handle the interactions with BD in the way you see fit, and establish good boundaries with BD so that he can't push you around. As Gimlet says, you have two controlling men in your life and you are caught between them.
It sounds like you may be in
It sounds like you may be in a relationship with the same man but in a different package. No, he shouldn't be proof reading your emails and telling you how to respond. It's one think to be asked by you and then provide a suggestion, its completely different when he is controlling your actions and decisions.
I have zero love for my ex and have learned to keep communication to simple responses to avoid conflict. But, I am very generous when it comes to time with our son. I focus the decisions on what is in the best interest of our son. Since he enjoys seeing exH I usually say yes when asked for extra time. If you asked your kids what they wanted in those situations, what would they say?
I mean this as nicely as
I mean this as nicely as possible: you didn't get a backbone, you got a husband with a backbone and possibly serious control issues.
I say "possibly" and not "definitively" because we, as humans, aren't always good at perceiving emotional situations for what they actually are. I don't know whether your DH is "proofing" your emails because he wants control, or if he knows that your XH will twist what you say, and your DH is being (overly) protective, which can come across as or easily lead into controlling behavior.
The only person who can answer the spirit of your question, which is "is my DH wrong or am I wrong?" is you. I will tell you that I tend to have tougher boundaries with BM than my DH does, but BM is manipulative and was abusive to DH, so she knows how to get what she wants. That doesn't work on me how it does him, so I tend to get far more frustrated with her antics because I assume (rightly or wrongly) that everything she does is meant for her own personal gain and control (because that's the pattern of her behavior).
HOWEVER, I can't make my DH do anything he doesn't want to do. I can present my case for why DH should say/act a certain way, but he has to do what he thinks is best. Usually his way works out, because he takes what I say, removes my hatred for the <insertive choice expletive here> he used to be married to, and comes up with a solution that ends up not pissing her off while also not causing problems for us.
And ultimately, that's what I NEED. I WANT her to feel the pain of her choices because I'm not a nice person, but what I NEED is for his past mistakes to not interrupt our life as much as possible (and the same holds true for me, though my mistakes tend to be centered on family, not kids/ex). If he can accomplish that in his own way, then I have zero room to complain. I may not like that she doesn't get what I think she deserves, but that's my own problem to deal with.
You need to sort out from your DH's reaction what is his WANT due to his feelings about BD and what is his NEED to keep his family and home safe and peaceful. Then you need to figure out how you're going to provide those needs in regards to your XH. That may mean that you implement the tactics that your DH has recommended, like sticking to email communication and following the CO to the letter. Or, it may mean that you show some flexibility for the sake of the kids, like letting XH pay for half of a sport that you were already going to enroll the kids in. You also need to have a very frank chat with your DH about how you're going to be handling your XH going forward and explain to your DH what support you need from him in order to maintain peace and safety for him and your family in your mutual home.
IF you think you can't have that conversation with your DH because he'll become more controlling, violent, etc, then we need to discuss abuse and helping you plan an exit. If your fear with having that conversation is your DH threatening to leave, then you need to be okay with him leaving. There is a WIDE berth of middle ground here that can be compromised that helps you develop the strength to tackle your XH (figuratively) without pissing him off while also giving your DH the peace and comfort he needs, even if it doesn't enact the revenge and dick-measuring that he wants. BUT, you have to take the lead on this and be willing to stand up to BOTH men in your life AND keep the peace in your home as it relates to your XH.
Best of luck!
Your comment
“BM is manipulative and was abusive to DH, so she knows how to get what she wants” describes my BD to a T. Yes BD loves his kids BUT he also knows how to Manipulate the situation to get what he wants. DH is doing this because he knows the hell BD put me through and would continue if allowed. But at the same time some things just are not worth fighting over or would benefit me to do what BD is asking but DH will still Argue with me over it. Some things don’t even Affect DH but he will try and convince me to do the opposite what BD is asking.
Then tell your DH:
Then tell your DH:
"DH, I'm exhausted. If it isn't BD giving me grief about something with the kids and trying to be a manipulative prick, then it's you being entirely inflexible and pushing me to be perfect in every interaction with him. Something has to give, and it can't be my sanity. I want to have a discussion with you about setting boundaries with BD together, but then I need you to let me enforce those boundaries how I see fit. I know you just want to protect me, but you're causing me more problems than you're helping with your behavior.
So, think on it for a few days and come up with a list of boundaries that you'd like to see put in place consistently. I'll do the same, and on Saturday after lunch, we'll sit down and talk about how we'll make this happen."
Make sure you express how his behavior is making you feel, then give him time to come up with solutions to present to you. Then, when you sit down with him to discuss this, remember that you're going to have to give in, too. You and your DH both will need to be open in the future to accepting criticism and talking out how something impacts each of you.
I think a good question for both you and DH to answer when writing out your lists is "how will this action fulfill the my need to have peace in my life?" Then, when you meet, your collective question that your answering is "how will this set of actions fulfill the our mutual needs to maintain a peaceful household?"
And I would encourage you both to write down the actions you feel need to be taken AND the answer to that question for each one. Writing it down requires you to take time to think it through and can make difficult information easier to understand.
Your DH should not balk at this idea. The relationship between you and your ex is yours to navigate. Your DH has the freedom to leave if he doesn't like how you handle that relationship. If you want to remain married, you will have to meet his needs, just as he will have to meet yours. But ultimately, the burden will fall on you to make sure those needs are met in regards to your ex.
You're going to have to grow a spine separate from the men in your life and put them both in their places in relation to your happiness and peace. That is separate from trying to maintain a healthy co-parenting relationship and a healthy marriage. Those two things are IN ADDITION TO being in a place mentally, emotionally, and physically to handle your responsibilities. If your DH is preventing you from being able to take control of your own responsibilities and fulfill your own needs, then he's not a good husband.
I would echo this. There
I would echo this. There likely is no right or wrong, it's really a matter of what your DH (and you) need to protect your relationship.
In my case, BM is manipulative and was abusive to DH for years. When I met him, she was still controlling every aspect of his life with his children. Nothing was ever a request, it was always a demand. She also tried to control his life outside his children. Even though she was remarried, she would call him daily and regularly threaten that he was neglecting his children if he did X, Y, Z even it was outside his time with his children. It served her needs. She continued to use him as an emotional outlet, regularly left the children with him outside his time, so she could do whatever she wanted or get a break, and she also managed to get whatever money she wanted from him, simply by making demands at the end of each month and threatening to report him to child support enforcement if he didn't pay what she wanted.
When DH and I started dating seriously, I had the best of intentions about having a relationship with BM, but right from the start, she started in on me. Before DH and I were even married, she told her family and DH's family that I was plotting against her because I didn't want him to pay child support. She told DH that I "wasn't family", so couldn't attend any of the children's events. She cried to everyone, including DH that I was out to get her, that I hated her, and on and on...all with me having minimal interaction with her.
DH and I went to counseling before getting married, becuase her behavior was so volatile and threatening. During those sessions, DH and I agreed that our relationship and our home needed to be a safe space from BM's drama.
That said, DH grew up with a mother who does not respect boundaries, so he has no idea how to set or hold them. That's one of the reasons he ended up with BM in the first place, he thought her behavior was normal. So, I do expect him to reduce his contact with BM and to keep his messages (we started with just email and text and have now moved to OFW since things have continued to deteriorate over the years), short, factual and without emotion. BM will attach to anything and everything he says and use it against him later.
If DH didn't shift to more of a grey rock focus with BM, she would still be trying to control his entire life. As he's told me, in her mind, he was supposed to stay pathetic and alone forever and continue to do whatever she wanted. She still attempts to control everything that happens with the children - including scheduling things on DH's weekends and then demanding he swtich plans (often at the last minute) to accommodate her, telling DH that she refuses to allow him to do things with the children (both teens, not toddlers) or that they "don't want to do" certain things, but are too afraid to tell DH.
It's been nothing short of miserable and sometimes I think I can't make it through the four years before SSs become adults and he can officially ignore her. I know she won't go away, but at that point, he can work directly with his children on what they need, not what she needs.
One of my central challenges with DH is that I found BM's behavior volatile and threatening, whereas he will say, 'that's just how she is" and tell me he's used to it, because he was married to her for 11 years. But, just because he's used to it and can just ignore her rants, that doesn't mean that her behavior won't negatively impact our relationship if we're allowed to continue.
I do hate BM, because she makes our lives miserable and nothing is ever about the children, it's all about her, what she wants, what she needs, what DH needs to do for her. So, yes, part of my reaction is rooted in my feelings, but ultimately, what I need is to be insulated from her drama. I need that in order to maintain my relationship with DH and also to build a relationship with SSs (which has been challenging, because one of them spends his entire visits reporting back to BM on everything we do and say).
My advice would be that you consider seeing a counselor with your DH, so he can understand your needs and feelings, but also so you can understand his needs and feelings, and you can both work together to decide what you need for your relationship to survive and what you need to do to keep BD from causing drama.
IMO, your husband sounds very
IMO, your husband sounds very controlling. How you manage your ex is your business, not DH's - he has no place telling you how you can and should interact with him. Being civil and even friendly with an ex in the name of co-parenting is fine, as long as there are boundaries around it. I wish DH and BM could be friendly, it would have been much better for SS.
At the end of the day you and
At the end of the day you and your ex are the parents and need to deal with the kids.
Your husband should be consulted and his wishes not disrespected but if his wishes are only to piss of BD, that isn't doing anyone any favors. I get that he is trying to be protective of you, but he is hurting the relationship you should have in co-parenting.
Since this site is for stepparents,
I would be curious to hear what your DH's side of the story is, OP. He may have a completely different perspective and would describe the situation in a much different way.
Why not suggest this site to your DH? He can get insight from other stepparents which he will find relevant to HIS situation.
No matter how fair you may think you are presenting your situation, he can be much more candid and describe exactly what HE is seeing, feeling, experiencing. No offense to you, but you aren't the stepparent in this case - and are seeing it through different optics than your DH is.
Especially the section on here which is for bio-free stepparents.
DH sounds like he is too
DH sounds like he is too controlling. Definitely needs to tone it down there. Question - does he have an issue with trusting you? Is he controlling in other areas too eg his kids life etc? He may be abusive which is a bigger concern. Only you would know that...
You sound like you might be pandering to the ex (as other have said) just to keep the peace. That's your next issue. While I think DH is going overboard thinking he should proof your emails, it may be a result of him not trusting you to set a clear boundary and not just give your ex what he wants. What do YOU want? You're in the middle because you want to please everyone else first.
I agree that contact is best when it's text or email (noone can argue what's been agreed upon, and you can't go off track either) and written communication should be a few things - short, to the point, amicable and polite but not OTT friendly to the point of pandering.
Good luck, you sound nice and can empathise with SPs too. It's nice to have a BM who is actually taking them time to look at the other perspective and take that into consideration.
If you do think you have wound up with 2 different abusive men then your only option is to get out for you and your kids sake and go to therapy to find why you are attracting these men. In fact, you could consider that for yourself anyway to get some clarity on everything.
Part of the story seems to be missing...
Part of the story seems to be missing here. You left out the chapter where your BD is high conflict. High conflict how and what has he done in your relationship with your DH that might be the root of how your DH feels toward this situation.
No offense but you said yourself that you don't have a back bone when it comes to BD and it sounds like your DH is the only back bone in this situation. Your DH could have a very good reason to act as he does but you left that chapter out. Maybe the chapter is only a few words..... BD has done nothing to warrant the Behavior but I highly doubt that is how the chapter reads. Some blanks need to be filled in here. My guess is your DH has every reason to feel as he does.
No sorry Siding with BM here..did I just say that????
The reason MOST of us are here is because we have step brat or BM issues. So it’s only Natural most will side with the step parent. What most people on here forget is not ALL BM’s are evil. Hell most of us on here are also BM’s. I’ve read all the Replies and noticed people are comparing Their BM with the poster. This poster mentioned NOTHING of her BD coming on to her or Inappropriate behavior between the two. There is no mention of her having a issue with Communicating with BD by email. The issue is DH wants to Dictate edit Word for Word how she responds to BD and then fights with her if she does not do what he wishes.
I find it VERY hard to believe ANYONE of you thinks the DH has the right to Do this. Do you control your Spouse like this? I see nothing wrong with being Civil to your ex. Saying things like thank you or your welcome is not being “Overly friendly”.
I think you missed something in the original post
"This poster mentioned NOTHING of her BD coming on to her or Inappropriate behavior between the two. There is no mention of her having a issue with Communicating with BD by email. "
I think you missed something here....
OP posted this "I’m a mom to two children. Ages 8 and 12. BD is controlling and high Conflict the reason I divorced him BUT Basically a good dad, the kids love him and see him often. "
I seriously doubt he stopped being high conflict once the ink was dry on the papers. As I said part of the story is missing. While it certainly is extreme and wrong for DH to edit every word of an email we are missing a good share of this story.
I am a BM as well and I try to be good at those relationships with my ex and his wife and my ex and my husband but ALL BM's and BD's are not like that ... that being said there is a lot of this story missing.
No one here thinks all BMs
No one here thinks all BMs are evil. As you say, many here are both BMs and SMs. However, because this is a site where SPs come to vent, that means most of us here AT LEAST have the double-whammy of manipulative, controlling BM and weaker, enabling DH, meaning step hell. Sometimes we do overgeneralize, but that is because most of us here are dealing with high conflict BMs that we can do very little to absolutely nothing about. We have to rely on our DH for that (or in this case, the DW), and so often they fail--want to pander to the ex- and take the short-term easy way out (for them).
I don't think anyone here is just siding with the SP. You do see a mixture of opinions on this topic and that is good. Some are taking what the BM says (and insinuations of I'm-not-the-bad-one-here) at face value and some of us are using our well-honed (maybe over-honed?) step-parenting BS-dar to read between the lines.
I tend to lean toward the SP because, first of all, this is a site for SPs to vent, and because as a bioless SM, I hear over and over and over about poor ol' BM or bio-dad being stuck in the middle. Well. . . as bio-parents, you both agreed to the divorce for whatever reason, and I hope to God you thought about how it would affect your children, and I also hope to God you realized that things were going to be very different moving forward and that it wasn't just going to be you and your ex- pretty much maintaining the status quo, just in seperate households. I would hope to God too, that you realized that you would be dating and possibly going on to marry others, and that those others would go on to be your partner priority in your life, with your ex- taking a seat way in the back (vs. your new spouse or SO; and there have been many instances of spouses or SOs being placed in the back row literally, away from their spouse of XYZ years at family events). Those are ALL BASIC things that I would hope to God every bio-parent contemplating a divorce would ponder prior to the divorce.
But, call me snarky if you want or anti-BM or whatever, I am absolutely amazed, from what I see here on these pages anyway, how few bio-parents have even a semi-clear picture in their head of what a divorce will look like down the road for them AND their family. To me, anyway, and I am a bioless SP, it seems like parents get divorced and further flounder far too often. Sometimes divorces do occur quickly and under the wire or one of the parents is caught off-guard, etc., but rather than sitting the dating scene out for a while to catch their breath, they jump right into it and bring all of their confusion and pain and enmeshment right into the middle of their new relationship, and expect their new SO to just figure it all out for themselves. Someone who has never been married before is going to have little clue what they could be in for, and here their partner is throwing them under the bus over and over for the "sake of the kids." Well, isn't that nice FOR THEM. . . that I, as bioless SP, have to suck it up and take it for someone else's failed marriage. Who's looking out for me? Not any of the bios, that's for sure.
Couldn't agree more
I agree that most divorced parents don't work through their own issues from the divorce, come to terms with issues that the other bio-parent, children, or extended family continue to hold on to from the divorce, or assume that things will be very different when they are remarried and that's okay. For example, the family dynamics will change, the children should be expected to adapt to those changes and not try to keep the old family dynamics alive. Presumably, the old family dynamics were dysfunctional or a divorce would not have happened.
I will also add that a lot of people stay psychologically married to their exes after divorce. Society encourages this by saying parents should be "friends" after the divorce for the sake of the kids, but there's a very fine line between doing things for the kids and maintaining the emotional support aspects of the adult relationship. If you are still in an emotional supportive relationship with an ex, you have no business starting a new relationship with someone else. No emotionally functional adult wants to be in a relationship with an adult, who is also engaged in an emotional relationship with someone else.
Things that may seem "just friendly" to you as the bio-parent, could be moving into emotional attachment to the ex territory. This is especially true with manipulative people. Divorced parents often try to control the other parent with the excuse that they are "only looking out for the kids". Really, the best thing for children of divorce is to have two functional households after the divorce, whether their parents are remarried or not. In my opinion, you can't have a functional household if someone else is trying to control it from the outside - this is true of divorced parents, it's also true of meddling in-laws, etc. Each household needs to exist as it's own unit. If a divorced parent is still beholden to the other parent and still maintaining an emotional connection with the other parent, then I think they have no business bringing someone else into that web of dysfunction.