"I wish there was a way to sterilize people until they passed a fricken stupidity test proving they could do a half-ass decent job at being a parent."

Absofreakinglutly! I LOVE saying this

My kids grew up with spankings they seem to be turning out pretty great my siblings and I grew up with spankings and the belt/paddle etc when we were REALLY bad we're all over the world with great jobs, happiness, wonderful families and education I'd say we turned out pretty good. My dad grew up with regular spankings corporal punishment in school and an expectation he would work unpaid summers from age 11-16 when he could get a paying job, do chores and respect his elders, he held a great hard working demanding job, single parented us kids 50/50 retired happily married to my SM and following his hobbies. My grandparents grew up the same as him both had good jobs (my grandmother once my dad was grown)
I see out of all my family one sibling who's kids are the most spoiled entitled selfish I'd smack their behind in a heartbeat behavior, but my sib and SO don't "believe" in spanking that would explain the screaming rolling on the floor tantrum by their 6 year old well educated extremely intelligent child in the middle of the store to which she usually got exactly what she wanted till auntie stepped in swooped her up told sib I'd see them back at their apartment, and carried said screaming child out the door down the street where I said her on a bench and forcefully and firmly told her exactly what would happen if she EVER did that in front of me again, and she was standing in time out when her parents got back. They were stunned she was standing there.
Maybe my sib will remember where we come from and parent up. My kids won't act like that and neither will grand kids some day if I have any input.

My sister is a middle school vice principal. She says ADD is Adults Don't Disciple.

Plain and simple indeed and I couldn't agree more and most of the teachers I know agree as well!

I would NEVER have put up with my son sassing me and refusing to do chores or homework! Never! And I spanked him a grand total of ONCE. With a wooden spoon. He refused to take a shower after being outside 'catching rats' with his friend all day. He was about 9. He simply stood up and said 'no'. I grabbed the wooden spoon, crooked it at him and told him I suggested he change his mind - quick.

He didn't. I smacked him. He told me he'd call child abuse. I told him to call mother abuse first.

He took the shower.

A parent can expect to get some defiance at some point. It doesn't mean the kid is bad. It means they are growing up and testing. It's my JOB as a parent to love them, treat them well, give them encouragement, smiles and laughter and to give them boundaries. They need them and they thrive with them.

Soapbox much, LOL! By the way, my kid is now 30, a university graduate, a wonderful young man and the apple of my eye.

No, kids are worse because MORE WOMEN WORK and parents and families spend MUCH LESS TIME with their children. Spanking has NOTHING to do with it. Before kids grew up in a neighborhood where the neighbors all knew them, loved them, took care of them...they also usually had extended family such as aunts, uncles, grandparents around that were there for them too. Today? Most kids have very little family around, very little family time with their parents, etc...THAT is why the kids are worse off.

PS - women 50 years ago also took "better care of their husbands and their wifely duties" because they ALSO got beaten up more...today? not so much...maybe it's time that more men went back to the good ole days of a "good slap in the face will teach her who is boss"...

When a child gets hit, people call it discipline...when a women gets hit, it's called abuse...funny, a woman is much stronger against a man than a child is against a women or man anyway...go figure!

I have to disagree. I am not anti spanking, but I do not believe that factor alone is what is responsible for our problems today, I have spent the last 15 years or so counseling families, kids, parents involved with department of children's services and trust me that there are plenty of folks still out there spanking- especially here in rural Midwest.

From my own experience I don't know that I was ever "spanked". My dad did smack me on the leg or arm a few times when I was young. I have spanked my kiddos a handful of times over the years-I can't recall the last time I spanked my kids- years and years. They are all 3 pretty good kids.

Ss15 on the other hand who has been dx'ed with ADHD and odd has been spanked many, many, many times over by a number of people. Dh, bm, me, stepdad- probably grandparents, an uncle. He's had timeouts galore, counseling. But trust me when I say that dh has warmed his behind on many occasions and it had zero impact. Zero.

I almost wish the answer was as simple as spanking. Imagine we could solve all these kids problems with a few spankings. I am afraid the answer is far more complicated

Your welcome. I love a healthy exchange of ideas and the sharing of differing opinions. Sme people just can't seem to do it without getting nasty!

Honestly, I have a 2 year old and he is a tester. I don't ever feel the need to spank him. I use a variety of other discipline measures and he is learning. He isn't quite 2 yet and he uses appropriate manners (please, thank you, excuse me, and sorry) very consistently and appropriately. We take him out to restaurants. He sits in the high chair. We apply the same rules at home. We don't let him run wild. We don't allow him to throw things. He sits in time out. He loses toys if he throws them. I refuse to play with him for a bit if he hits.

I give lots of hugs. BUT I don't let him get away with things. I don't excuse his crap with "he's tired" or "he's hungry". I really think a lot of today's issues with kids stems from lack of parenting.

Everyone wants their children to "like" them. I see it with other mother's of toddlers. Excuses every time the kid misbehaves. Letting them make decisions that they shouldn't be making (bedtimes, bath times, what they'll have for lunch, whether or not they will wear a coat). I don't make excuses for my kid's behavior. I address it. I give him the words for his emotions and I model the appropriate way to express them. He is too young to understand all of it, but he will over time.

The second problem is the diagnoses. Sorry, I believe ADHD exists. I certainly believe autism exists. BUT I also see kids with symptoms of both and can easily identify the parenting they're not getting as the cause for those symptoms. Guilt parenting is not exclusive to children of divorce. Everyone wants their kid to be happy as their first priority. This results in low frustration tolerance and lack of coping skills. And those two things alone result in kids acting out because they want someone else to "fix" their disappointment.

Add to all of that the fact that "spending more time with their kids" doesn't translate into quality time. We were out to eat last Friday. A mother, father, their 7ish son, and 4ish daughter sat next to us. They never once spoke to each other or even looked at each other. All four of them were on separate devices. Same thing happened last night. Mother and two sons came in. Mother ordered EACH son a pizza (8 slices EACH for boys about 8 years old) because that is what they wanted. She proceeded to spend the entire dinner on her phone. Never interacted with either of them.

I read these boards and see a lot of "that kid needs a spanking". I'm not a zero tolerance on the spanking kind of girl, but really what a lot of these kids need is less "talking" to and more "action". Why are we begging them to go to bed? Why are we letting them be rude? Guilt. Kids shouldn't have that much control and giving it to them has caused their shitty behavior. Spanking them after years of indulging them will do nothing more than turn their acting out into acting "in" with passive aggressive crap.

Well, I'm glad someone had the guts to say what I've been thinking all along.

Granted, a lot of times spanking is not the answer, but I agree that spanking is one of the tools that a parent should be using on their children.

"I don't reason. I don't bargain. My children are not my friends. It is my job to send them to college not to jail."
I SO AGREE!!

Great post. I have 3 sons. The oldest, now 27, never got spanked. He is a fairly decent human being. Hard & responsible worker, presently holding down 2 jobs, works 7 days a week. However, he can be disrespectful and rude at times. I believe a few smacks across the mouth would have helped.

Son #2 - now 24 years old got spanked very frequently. Probably making up for all the non-spanking I did with child#1.
He is also a very hard & responsible worker. Incredibly well mannered, kind and NEVER EVER has been disrespectful towards me or any other adult or human being for that matter.

Son# 3 - now 15 years old. Has ADHD and mild ODD, I've never put him on meds. I'd spank him when he was younger, stopped spanking him altogether as he got older because I didn't see the spanking was helping any. After finding the right fit for him at school, he got much better. Liked to mouth off a lot, I'd punish as needed.

As soon as he hit HS, his behavior was out of control again, so now I whip his ass whenever he gets out of hand (which has decreased substantially). He is 6' 2" and 175lbs. I got a LOT of flack once for flying across the kitchen island and popping him in the mouth for being disrespectful towards me. However, it has NOT happened again. He is a very strong individual. He tests me & my DH constantly. All in all? A pretty good kid with a bit of an attitude. Which I guess is an age thing.

I do believe spanking has it's place in the discipline wheel. All 3 of my boys know that my patience is wavering and that if they catch me on the wrong day and they get stupid with me, I'm releasing a right hook with the quickness. I make no apologies for it either.

You guys should read "the Narcissists epidemic". It's a fantastic book, and compares parenting from the 50s thru current, and also Americans and Chinese. Over time, parenting has changed, lifestyles have changed, etc. These kids are a example of the changes we have made as a society, being moms working, discipline, fluffing self esteem. It breaks it down where you really can see where we went wrong. I always love the example, how many years ago, if a kid sucked at baseball, his friends made fun of him, he accepted he sucked at baseball, and he accepted it. His parents didn't fluff him up worried about keeping him happy, and convincing him he was special and just fine at baseball, just ignore what the other kids say. Parents then would have been, ok, well, baseballs not your thing, let's move on. Now, whether kids even TRY, or play, they get a trophy just for signing up and showing up because "its the fair thing to do" let's not let them know they suck, or gps forbid they don't get rewarded for doing nothing.

Somehow kids have been put on a pedastol, and made out to be so very fragile, and must be protected from anything close to the truth.

Hahaha, even young kids who are obviously, overweight, to the point of unhealthy. Are told its ok to be fat, your special and beautiful and you shouldn't worry that you could have diabetes by 18, and a heart attack by 25 as long as you are happy and you feel beautiful because you are my princess!