Potential Mini-Wife Stepdaughter; SERIOUSLY in need of advice
Let me preface by saying I know this will be long. If you read to the end, thank you.
I have been struggling with this on my own for well over a year now. With my wedding date nearing, moving in together on the horizon, and the impending official family blend, I have started searching for answers and similar stories. It seems my feelings are way more prevalent than I thought, but I want to lay out my specific story/examples and get other's opinions. Backstory: Fiance is the custodial parent, so the kids are with him most of the time and see their mother only EOW. This has been the case for 3 years.
My fiance and I have been together for almost 2 years. He has a boy (10) and a girl (9). I have a boy (7) and two girls (3). His daughter has exhibited jealousy since we first met. One of the weirdest things I noticed almost immediately is that she ALWAYS has to be on him in public- hanging on him, sitting by him, and holding his hand is like an obsession. She will literally get out of the car and run to his side and grab his hand. When we are standing around, she will often stand in front of him and try to grab on to him or his arms, and asks him to swing her around like you would a toddler. Last weekend, fiance, our children, and I were all out in public walking through this business section of town - lots of cars, very busy, and I look ahead to (AGAIN) see fiance and his daughter, hand in hand, strolling ahead of us, while I'm trying to get my 3 year old twins across by myself. This is a common occurrence and one I have brought up with him more than once. I can't even count how many times I have watched the two of them walk in front of me, hand in hand, while I trail behind. It's as if she's the woman in his life- not the child. I don't understand why there has to be a 9 year old constantly hanging all over him. If you are old enough to cross the street on your own, hand holding doesn't need to be a thing you do for the entire outing. Extended hand holding is for lovers and young children. He will also drop my hand before he ever drops hers. I am often steered into oncoming people, walls, etc. if I don't let go, just so he can "guide" her. He calls it "parental instinct", to help her navigate the crowds. He once let a door literally slam in my face (it hit and it hurt), because he let go of it so quickly to get the OTHER door right next to it, for his daughter, even though we were surrounded by people and someone else was coming out right behind her to facilitate the door opening (she definitely wasn't going to get mowed down by the door).
Once, when fiance and I were cuddling on the couch, she went so far as to try to remove his hand from me to hold it herself. To his credit, he did ask what she was doing and told her that wasn't going to happen. When fiance and I are sitting next to each other on the couch while watching a movie, she must be sitting on the other side or she whines. She's literally cried before, because she wants to sit by him. I have been laying my head on his chest and stroking his chest hair, to glance over and see her laying her head on his shoulder at the same time and rubbing his chin/cheek. It makes me feel SO WEIRD! There have been multiple times where he has already been spooning me on the couch and she has come in and whined about wanting him and he has let her literally crawl on top of him and lay herself down the length of his body. This has happened more than once and again, super weird to me. She also will stare at us when we are touching and she isn't involved. And when she gets his hands on her, she will often look over at me, to see if I'm watching. I don't know how much of this he notices. I have pointed things out to him, but it usually ends with him getting defensive and me dropping it.
They still sleep together occasionally and he will spoon her like he does me, on the couch during movie time. He gets into bed with her every single night and every single morning to snuggle her to sleep and snuggle her awake. He has to allot extra time in his schedule for it.
Little things: When he has given me an adult level present (like a necklace for my last birthday from Jared's), she looked at it and told me it wasn't fair because her Dad had never given her jewelry like that. When he made me an intricate knot with rope during a camping trip, she had to have him make the exact same one for her. Outside of sex, not much seems to be only mine, where my fiance and his daughter are concerned. She wants it to all be the same, as in she does't seem to realize that her role and my role in his life are two very different things, so when it comes to any sort of basic physical affection, she receives half in the same manner that I do, usually at the exact same time I do, literally giving me half my man and making me feel as if I can't reciprocate in the way I want because there is someone else involved. I often feel as if we have an ongoing, extremely modest and obviously non-sexual version of a threesome.
A few days ago, we were kissing in front of the kids(appropriately, not much tongue, maybe a few seconds total), and he broke it off because she was just flat out staring at us. He smiled and said, "What, are you jealous?" Weirdest thing I have ever heard him say. I asked why he would even ask that because it doesn't make sense. Why should she be jealous of him kissing me like that? He didn't answer, evaded the question, and told me I was the only one thinking of it "that way".
I am not far off from marrying this man. I adore him and his son is great. His daughter is great too, outside of this issue. I don't know what to do about this. Am I overreacting? I don't want to share my husband in the manner I've described. Furthermore, I worry for my own 2 girls. There doesn't seem to be room for any more, unless I give up "my spot", so they can get some affection. His daughter certainly won't and he makes excuses for her regarding the level of attention she is "used to receiving". He tells me I'm jealous and competitive in regards to her, completely refusing to acknowledge that there is an issue, much less address it. I have checked myself many times. I haven't told anyone in my life (outside of him) about these concerns because I didn't know if I was being a jealous girlfriend/fiancee, and I was unsure. But I've started researching and I have found so many stories and articles that I could have written myself.
Please. Any advice on what to do, links, words of wisdom, encouragement, or some straight up hard truth- please send it my way.
I think your fiance is
I think your fiance is actually revelling in his role of being fought over by you and his mini wife. Instead of nipping his daughter's behaviour in the bud, he is encouraging it with inappropriate comments like "are you jealous?", and by doing things like sleeping with her. This rings severe alarm bells and really, I would put your plans on hold until this is sorted out. His role ought to be setting boundaries lovingly but very firmly, instead he is whipping up ill feeling between the two of you in a narcissistic orgy of "oh look - they are fighting over me!". Very unhealthy and he is the one with the problem - not the 9 year old who is being manipulated by him.
Welcome to weird! The good
Welcome to weird! The good news is you're not married yet!
I've been there, but the difference was that my husband's mini-wife was 20 and spilling her double D's all over him. It is freaky weird to witness - there have been times when it felt awkward being in the room with them and embarrassing for her to act like that in front of others.
You have a challenge ahead of you. She is sending you signals and marking her territory - probably ramping it up as your wedding approaches. You can ignore it now, but at some point, she will give you no choice but to address it and I think it gets worse when unchecked. Your fiance will likely ignore the issue as long as you don't force him to address it. It's weird and embarrassing for them, I think, and no one wants to say, "Gee, my daughter acts like a slut around me and I'm her FATHER," because it touches a taboo and forces them to admit there's something wrong with their kids. (These men clearly have no idea how prevalent it is, especially in daughters of divorced men.) But don't think for a second that your fiance doesn't see it - he spilled the beans when he asked her if she's jealous and then tried to avoid the subject when you asked. So when you finally bring it up, do not let him act shocked, indignant and tell you he has no clue what you're talking about.
I don't think it's a good sign that your fiance is not addressing it or even willing to admit it when he clearly sees it. Not only will you have to deal with her, but first you must deal with a parent unwilling to admit the problem. Double whammy.
Regardless, this kid is showing you how things are gonna be when you're married. It is probably too late to hope she grows out of it. Now you must remediate her behavior and that is really difficult if her father is not on board. My SD is 30 and she doesn't have many opportunities to sit on my husband's lap anymore. But in the thick of it, it took a therapist telling him "No, this is not normal behavior for a 22-year-old," and telling him exactly how to physically block her by sitting in chairs NOT on the sofa. The sexual stuff is less now, but the mini-wife stuff never really goes away. If a family friend has a new baby, she sends the gift from her and him rather than he and I sending a gift as a couple. She sends postcards to our house addressed only to him and we've been married nearly a decade! It is really odd.
Frankly, I minded it much more that he refused or claimed not to see it than I ever minded her behavior itself. I found it insulting that this man with so many degrees, who speaks so many languages, who is so accomplished and worldly, could ever play dumb to the awkwardness of me watching them on the sofa from across the room - her draped across him with her head in his lap.
If there's any hope, I think it has to start with him acknowledging the weird. If you broach the subject, be as gentle as possible - he will be defensive and ashamed. Because you'll probably end up in therapy anyway, maybe you should go get some early advice on how to raise this with him so you don't look like the bad guy.
I wish you luck. Knowing what I know now, I would probably not get married to him again. And I sure wouldn't have wanted to marry this mess when my SD was only 9. It was bad enough marrying him when she was 19. You have your own kids, so maybe it won't be so bad for you, but this girl could cause a lot of havoc in your life. Give this a lot of time and thought before committing.
You have a fiance problem,
You have a fiance problem, he's doing nothing to get his daughter to understand that you are an adult and she's only a child, he allows this behavior.
If she storms to sit next to him, he can gentle tell her, no sweety ASha sits next to me and remove her.
If he hugs you and she tries to come in between - he should push her away and say NO...
On the jewellery thing he can simply say, you are to young for it and your husband can buy you some day..
Up until your fiance really starts having boundaries with this kid it's only going to get worse, no way should he be sleeping with a 9 year old child.... If he falls asleep on the couch he should not have a child with him spooning, that's your place....
Hon think carefully before getting married, huge changes needs to take place, Mini wives are a term for spoiled little children who actually have dIsney Dads...
Please find a good therapist
Please find a good therapist and get therapy for both you and your fiance. Your fiance has to be the one who corrects this and if he is not willing, then my advise would honestly be to NOT get married. I mean, break it off, move out, get away from all of it. If you get married, you will be treated as the housekeeper concubine and as the sd gets older it gets worse. You will find that your dh confides in sd, SHE will make decisions that affect YOUR environment and your dh will not have a problem with it and then when you complain about it YOU will be labeled the one with a problem. IMHO it is very hard to overcome the OTHER WOMAN when that little woman is flesh & blood.
Isn't it crazy how we can
Isn't it crazy how we can overlook the little clues and get blinded by falling in love and then one day, we wake up and see where we really are at and don't even know how we got to this place. Trust me, I am not bashing you....I support you getting this resolved and I am certain this hurts you to no end, and for that, I am so sorry.
What I am pointing out is how so many of us, me included, try to blow off the small signs, justify instead of saying right then and there "oh hell no!" because SURELY what we are seeing and thinking just can't be right. Self doubt. Excuses for why the other person is acting this way. Giving them an out.
You are here because you can't overlook anything else and you are right. All these comments are spot on and I do hope that you take back your power, set your boundaries and get your needs met. This is all on your fiance as this is his creation. He may or may not be able to fix this but please stand your ground and get clear on what is right and wrong so that he knows what you will and won't tolerate. Right now, he has no reason to stop encouraging this because he gets no real push back from you, therefore he keeps you accepting it.
Wishing you the best
This 100%
This 100%
So many red flags here, and
So many red flags here, and he has you doubting YOUR own instincts and emotions. He's telling you that you are jealous and competitive, when he actually asked his daughter if she was jealous of him kissing you.
Things are only going to get worse if he doesn't admit his inappropriate behavior and do something about it. There may be things that you adore about this man, but make no mistake, he has some issues and he's creating issues for his daughter.
There is no way that I would want my daughters in this environment.
This guy is gross. Smiling at
This guy is gross. Smiling at his daughter after kissing you and asking if she's jealous? WTF?
Also, look up "gaslighting." He's making you think you're the crazy one. You're not.
Why do you WANT your
Why do you WANT your daughters around this man? Why are you bothered by your girls not getting their "share of affection from him? :sick: :sick:
All of you w/adult SD mini
All of you w/adult SD mini wives can see how this behavior is cultivated over the years. What a gross example of enmeshment and how parents give their kids issues. You can't stop this behavior but DH could if he realized just how damaging it is to your relationship and the mental health of his child.
This man is not going to help you raise your twins. He's not really even a father to his own daughter but more of a partner almost boyfriend. I would not marry this man. The issues w/the daughter are just going to get worse. If you try to step in and change their relationship then you're the evil one and the behavior will ramp up or just go on behind your back. Remember that you marry someone at face value not what you believe they can become. Right now you're set to marry a man whose emotional and most of his physical needs are met by his daughter. You'll fulfill his need for sex and nanny for the kids.
Waking up and going to sleep w/your dad spooning you when you're on the edge of puberty is just a bit too much. How will you feel when he insists on doing the same thing to your twins?
Very good post, still
Very good post, still learning. Agree with all of it.
"This man is not going to
"This man is not going to help you raise your twins."
It isn't his responsibility to help her raise her kids. The great thing about being a step parent is having the freedom to do as much or little as you want in regards to parenting someone else's kids.
You're right, I said that
You're right, I said that because she seemed miffed that he helped his 9 yr old across the street but left her on her own w/her kids. I think she needs a huge reality dose that even if she marries this guy she's on her own in so many ways. Hopefully there are some major pros in this situation because so far the cons are creating a deficeit. "But I loooove him" is not a pro and does not count
I think you should take some
I think you should take some time to really reflect on this relationship and if you see it fulfilling you 5-10-15-20 years down the road.
Do you think that as SD ages your DH will begin to "transition" SD from a mini wife into a parent/daughter relationship?
10 years from now will you be able to look at your DH coddling his 19 year old daughter and still feel attracted to him? Or feel respect for him?
DH let a door hit you in the face physically....so there is no metaphor needed here, your DH will literally cause you physical harm to ensure his precious child is catered too first.
As your daughters age and grow up and see this lopsided relationship you are in (you pursing him, him pursing his daughter) what type of issues do you think that might cause them as the grow and start trying to find relationships?
Do you feel you are garnering the respect you deserve from this man, or are you left to feel like you are demanding too much asking to be treated equal in this relationship.
Like I said take some time to reflect, there are a lot of questions you need to sit down and start answering for yourself. Also think about the type of relationship you are modeling for your children as they grow.
Advice.only, looking
Advice.only, looking 5-10-15-20 years down the road is an EXCELLENT idea.
OP, how will you feel in:
* 5 years when your SO is spooning with his now-14yo daughter?
*10 years when your SO is spooning with his now-19yo daughter?
*15 years when your SO is spooning with his now-24yo daughter?
*20 years when your SO is spooning with his now-29yo daughter?
We've had stepmoms on this site whose husbands/significant others see NO problem when their ADULT daughters sprawl all over them in a manner that is construed as sexual. A head in Daddy's lap at age 4 is NOT the same at age 24. Feet on Daddy's leg at 6 is not the same as legs across Daddy's at age 30.
Him asking his daughter if she is jealous is not nearly as icky to me as that spooning day and night. Red flags, indeed. :sick:
Read the Adult Stepchildren
Read the Adult Stepchildren forum. That is your future life.
He is dismissing your feelings about this mini-wife situation. You want to discuss it, he makes excuses or gets defensive and nothing changes. Is that what you want in a partner?
Counseling for both of you before your relationship goes one step further.
Change all the genders and I
Change all the genders and I was there, am still coping with it though a lot less is happening now.
DW and SS share a close relationship and I don't squelch it. But I have my needs, too. I had to think it through... before I came aboard, he was the MOTH (man of the house). He felt demoted practically right off the bat. Natch, he couldn't resist showing it. Jealousy prevailed...
He regressed to toddler behavior to get mommy attention.
He would speak ill about me.
He got paranoid and said I was trying to poison them.
He would walk between her and me to "cut me off" of the herd.
He would see me holding her hand and want to hold her other hand - but if his sister had it, he'd act out.
He would always do all he could to shun me.
She didn't do a lot to stop his crap.
So...
I disengaged.
She noticed.
He liked it at first, then he saw how she wasn't as happy when I was disengaging, so he started to actually recognize I was pretty cool to have around.
I re-engaged as necessary.
And that's how we do it.
My recommendation is to disengage for a bit to let them both realize how much they need you. To be honest, if you're the crutch when they need you but let them do what they want when they don't, you'll only ever get the leftovers. You deserve better. Disengage a little to train them... be independent and do things w your kids, and let him and her be a partial couple - he'll feel The Lacking. Don't be vindictive about it, but be firm - and don't chase him or push it. Always have an ace in the hole where if he and MiniWife go do something, your plan B is fun, too. Maybe include his son?