OT-arrears AMOUNT vs. actual CS payment...how people use numbers to make themselves look good
Just something I noticed recently. Most people who's ex's have been screwed by the system into paying outrageous amounts of child support NEVER tell you how much child support is ordered for per month...nope...they tell you "he is in ARREARS to the TUNE OF 20K". Of course, with that, most people not involved in the CS mess might think "oh my, the guy as NEVER paid a dime". You see, if they instead said "my ex is ordered to pay 1K a month per kid and hasn't paid in a year or two", then many people would be saying "and you need 1K PLUS your own money to raise a kid?" lol So anytime somebody talks about how much they have not gotten paid, which of course, most of the time, they are also including the interest, cause it makes it look better, I really just have to say..."and?"
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CS adds up QUICK. DH is in
CS adds up QUICK.
DH is in the home stretch of his $620/month CS, and the balance is still close to $15k. It was a good bit over $60k when I met him.
I wouldn't call $620/month excessive - kids are expensive. Our household bills (SMALL house, utilities, groceries for two, gasoline - not including car notes or phone bills) run in excess of $2k/month.
What is it called when your
What is it called when your DH is overpaying, and has been for a year, due to DOR taking its sweet a$$ time on the downward modification. Currently at their current incomes he has overpaid by more than 3K.
My XH is $41,948.07 in
My XH is $41,948.07 in arrears. He has not made a payment since May of 2010 and it was for $50. He is only ordered to pay $250(roughly) each month for 3 kids. Yes I know my oldest is over 18, but he is still back paying for her.
side note: I doubt I'll ever see it too. He has straight told me, to my face, that he refuses to work, because "I'm not paying YOU anything, I don't know if you actually spend it on the kids or not!" LOL
I was single mom before I was
I was single mom before I was step mom, and Yes, I did need the 1K plus my money to raise my kids. I am trying to figure out why you are complaining about child support? I know that for those who have to pay it, it is a pain in the a$$ but it goes to the kids. Between daycare, sports, food, clothes, and everything else kids need I spend WAY WAY over that every month to take care of my kids. I am not milking any system, I am not out to take my ex for everything, but I do expect his financial help in raising the children we have together.
When he was in arrears for 6K it was really hard. I had to borrow money from my parents to make ends meet. Why should one parent have to bear all of the financial responsibility for a child that 2 created, That 2 decided to have? No our marriage didn't work out but the kids still need their lives to stay as consistent as possible. This post just really rubbed me the wrong way.
I pay $1100 in day care
I pay $1100 in day care alone. They don't go anywhere special, that is just the going rate here. So yes. It really does.
I am sure that those are the
I am sure that those are the types of BM's that were being referred to, it just bothers me that there are plenty of us that do take care of our kids with CS and do need it for the kids. The BM's that do what you described need to have kids taken away from them, period.
And here is the other side,
And here is the other side, as well. My dh pays nearly $1000 a month in cs for a child he also supports 50% of the time in our home. We house her. We feed her. We entertain her. We clothe her. We pay for school supplies and trips and lunches, etc. He's been paying for a long time. For an entire year he paid that amount despite the fact that he had his child 75% of the time and BM doesn't work so she is contributing exactly $0 to their child's care.
I think that if there is a
I think that if there is a 50/50 custody split then the only CS should be 1/2 of child care. I find it ridiculous that you are expected to feed, house, etc the children and pay CS as well. My exH only has them EOW (if he feels like it), kids do tend to cut into to him time clubbing, drinking, and partying in general. Did I mention he is 32? Oh well...
While I am not saying an NCP
While I am not saying an NCP should not pay, when you state "it's hard to tell my kids that they can't do this or that because I don't have the money", imagine the rest of us who have to tell our kids, "you can't do this or that...but your SISTER or BROTHER CAN" because daddy pays for it for THEM...
Many of our kids can't do this or that...it's just a fact of life.
Now that is just crazy. BM
Now that is just crazy.
BM here is on welfare. The break down page of the CS order states that DF has to pay $90 a week for 2 kids. BM has to contribute $5.00 a week. }:)
I'm all for DF paying CS. Those are his kids and he should help support them. I just wish the courts could force BM to get a job.
Playing school doesn't cut it. She was scheduled to complete a CNA class last February. It's May and she is still taking classes 2 nights a week and not working. It looks like it's going to take her a year to complete a 5 month rinky dink program.
Hearing the ordered amounts
Hearing the ordered amounts makes the NCP sound like an even bigger loser. Some of the orders are pretty low. The amount owed is so large because the mom or dad isn't paying.
When a working CP gets a salary increase, his/her children benefit from that increase. Why shouldn't it be the same when a NCP increases his/her salary?
Even if you read the
Even if you read the information from the FDA, it specifically states that when there is an increase in salary the kids don't ALWAYS benefit...thus the reason that the tables are done because they are well aware that not always to the kids benefit.
Wow some cs payments are
Wow some cs payments are crazy! My fdh pays £120 a month ($193) for 1 child.
about 15 years ago I did
about 15 years ago I did payroll for a temp employment agency in my area for about a year. I of course had to go through the child support orders that came in for all of the temp employees every month and enter the amounts to come out of their checks.
There were two I will never forget. One guy was in arrears for $98,000.00. Another guy had 4 different orders for 4 different women. I have to be honest... I would often think to myself whilst taking the majority of their pay from them for these orders every week... why bother dude? At that point it's a bottemless pit they'll never get out of unless they win the lottery or come into some inheritance. I can't imagine living with that hanging over my head. But then again, I would have been smart enough to wear a friggin condom.
dd, maybe the child support
dd, maybe the child support calculator should be the poster child for safe sex! that would be an awesome condom ad... bm's who breed for money would lose their fucking mind
I swear to God, I have been
I swear to God, I have been thinking over the past few days about how I wish I knew how to go about changing things at least in my state. Like for instanace, this chaps my ass to no end. When BM1 and BM2 had SD and SS, neither had insurance. So guess who gets to pay the WHOLE fucking hospital tab for both of them? DH. He worked something out with CS to pay 75.00 per month for what our state calls the "birth and confinement costs" and it will be literally for the rest of his life and probably still won't be paid off. And BMs don't have to pay a dime. WTF is that all about? So these women just run around opening their legs with no consequences whatsoever because the taxpayers and poor saps that didn't wear a fucking condom have to foot the bill for everything.
Then I was thinking, what if DH dies tomorrow? THEN who pays for this birth and confinement shit? Bet my last penny that it's NOT BMs and that the state just eats it and the taxpayers pay. This is so wrong on so many levels. And then I think about all the teens having kids, scumbags having kids who are just like BMs.. no insurance, no jobs, and I just want to rip my hair out, be bald and move to Canada.
When he was in arrears for 6K
When he was in arrears for 6K it was really hard. I had to borrow money from my parents to make ends meet. Why should one parent have to bear all of the financial responsibility for a child that 2 created, That 2 decided to have? No our marriage didn't work out but the kids still need their lives to stay as consistent as possible. This post just really rubbed me the wrong way.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This post actually rubbed me the wrong way. As a Woman/Mother...I knew BEFORE I had kids that I NEVER would have to borrow money for their support. CS was great when I got it...but I NEVER relied on it. If I am custodial, and a parent, it is MY responsibility see the kids are always taken care of. Not waiting on someone else to pay. Yes they have a dad and yes he should pay...but we all know that cannot happen sometimes. So as a warning to everyone....do NOT have kids that “YOU” cannot afford.
PS..EX owes about 30K right now.
I agree. I know that if I
I agree. I know that if I have a baby and we don't work out then as the mum, I will be responsible for the child. Sure dads should pay, but reality is they often don't or can't. I don't rely on fdh's money now so I won't if we split. I also wouldn't bitch that he could pretty much live a carefree life, going out when he wants, on holiday when he wants etc (our bm moans about this).
Pigs will fly before I marry
Pigs will fly before I marry my fdh for any other reason than the fact we love each other. The point of marriage isn't just to gain financial stability, that factor doesn't even come into it for me. I will always maintain my financial independance and earn enough to support me and my future children.
Thank you! When WE had kids
Thank you! When WE had kids WE could afford them. Now because WE are no longer married its 100% my job?
No it's not 100% your job.
No it's not 100% your job. Dads should pay, but many don't which leaves mums struggling. So to avoid this I will have the amount of children I personally can afford at least the basics for without struggling.
And I can keep our basic
And I can keep our basic necessities on my own. However we wouldn't be able to live in the "good school district", we would not be able to participate in many of the "extras" that we do, I am able to do this because of CS.
Unfortunately, extras are
Unfortunately, extras are WANTS, not needs. They are privilages, not rights.
You can have an intact family that doesn't have extras either.
Right, I agree, but do the
Right, I agree, but do the kids have to suffer because their dad who is in the military, has a stable job and income, doesn't want them anymore? He changed his mind.
They really shouldn't. I
They really shouldn't.
I think the entire thing gets ugly because you have situations where the kids have everything they NEED from one parent and they do suffer if the other parent isn't contributing. And they should benefit from two parents. Then you have the other side where the kid is being supported in two homes by one parent. The CS laws are archaic. Yes NCP parents should help financially support their children, but the also expect CP or 50/50 parents to financially support their children in two homes.
On top of that, in our state the calculation imputes income from the other parent, but noone enforces that parent's contribution. They only enforce the paying parent. So everyone is ok with the CP parent sitting around doing nothing to help their children have a better life, but if the dad doesn't contribute he is a deadbeat.
The laws are skewed and though there are fathers (and mothers) out there who should be paying and aren't, there are a lot more fathers (and mothers) who are carrying more than their share of the burden and that is where the cs resentment builds.
I don't think my SD needs 16 pairs of shoes and if we weren't paying a retarded amount of cs and still expected to have shoes for her here, she wouldn't.
Unfortunately, being denied
Unfortunately, being denied of anything other than basic necessities, to me, is not suffering. Suffering, IMHO, is the children who don't even have the minimum basics of food, shelter, clothing.
You can have extras without spending money, and still live a fulfilling life by doing so. If a CP has leftover CS, then by all means, spend it on extras. I wholeheartedly agree than an NCP should pay CS, but not just for the sake of "extras."
What gets my goat are the CP's who complain about not having enough funds for the child's college, when they have spent the CS towards extras like activities that aren't necessities. Baseball is not a necessity, but college is. Especially for CP's who do not give a choice to the NCP as to what the child is enrolled in.
My own example is that FDH has to pay towards daycare--the MOST expensive daycare in that area, $600 a month for 2 days a week (there are others there that are less than $300 for 2 days a week). And he had no choice which daycare the child got put into, couldn't even offer alternatives like a baby sitter which would be much cheaper. Sure, BM thinks it's a necessity, but it really isn't. She then complains she doesn't have enough money to raise the kid. That's pure, financial, stupidity right there, but she thinks the child will suffer if he doesn't go to the absolute best school that does baby yoga and whatnot.
I personally don't believe NCP's should have to pay anything above and beyond CS. Especially when some BM's put their children into everything and anything and expect the father to cough up half, even if he didn't agree to put them in it, because it's for the good of the child.
Nope, they shouldn't have to
Nope, they shouldn't have to suffer if their dad just doesn't want to pay...but guess what? Even when he CAN"T pay, when he loses his job, when he is sick, BMs still think they shouldn't suffer...yet if the family was still together, those kids WOULD suffer. So make it fair. We are not saying that kids should have no support...but if you want to leave it as "if the parents were married", then remember that it's not just in the UPS, it's ALSO in the DOWNS...and 99% of BMs don't think their kids should suffer once divorced if a father gets ill, loses his job, etc...while they would definitely suffer if they were still married.
So what happens when you're
So what happens when you're laid off? Life changes. Every day, people are put into financial ruins & are thrown into situations where they personally cannot afford the children they have.
Dads should pay. Moms should pay. No buts.
That's the problem with they CS system now. There are too many buts (and too many butts) between the parents who just don't want to parent, the parents who don't want to pay, the lawyers the parents pay so they don't have to pay, & the judges who who don't want the hassel of making them pay.
If a woman can only have kids
If a woman can only have kids that she can afford on her own, then who is going to have any kids? And what's the point of marriage?
Um, Ok.... The point of MY marriage was beacuse we love each other. I don't recall the financial support of any future offspring being in our marriage vows.
LIKE: "do NOT have kids that
LIKE:
"do NOT have kids that “YOU” cannot afford."
The BM in my situation got
The BM in my situation got lucky. Now if it was my husband paying support he would be getting screwed. She only pays $199.00 a month. Hasnt paid anything since support order was issued and is behind only $1600.00 But of course when my husband says anything to her about chipping in on something for SD then he gets called a jerk....
Do not have kids that you
Do not have kids that you cannot afford? This rubs me the wrong way.
Are there women who do that? Yes, of course there are, for many reasons.
But, to be devils advocate, What if you could afford them when they were born and your then DH decides the hooker down the street is more fun than you, runs off, and then you are struggling to make ends meat for the kids you and he planned, wanted, could afford while he is running around in his mid-life crisis not paying CS for whatever reason. You might even *gasp* run into moments when you have to have help because daddy dearest is not stepping up. What are you supposed to do, go drop your eight year old off at the fire department because you went from living comfortably to struggling to make it day to day? I mean, if you shouldn't have kids you can't afford, that is the logical course of action. Take them to children's services, because you can't afford them. It really chaps me to hear someone say don't have kids you can't afford like they know a situation.
I am all about being able to take care of your kids yourself. I have done this, I have not received a freaking dime from my ex-husband. I have not asked anyone for help, but we have been dirt floor poor, let me tell you. There were no extras, there was just enough food for paycheck to paycheck, there was no snacking inbetween. The measely $160 a month in CS my ex owed me would have been a big help. Both parents should be responsible for the child they created.
At least in our case, I'm a
At least in our case, I'm a bit pissed about the lack of control on the budget BM has.
Why did you have a kid that you really couldn't afford? Oh, right, because you thought FDH would "do the right thing" and "marry you" because "children need married parents" when it was made CLEAR that it was a physical fling and nothing else, and you didn't give him a choice with your lying, scheming, manipulating ways.
Then you complain you don't have money to send the kid to the most expensive daycare in your area, when you're on food stamps and medicaid, have your own business, BUT is living with your mom rent free without having to chip in for utilities, and you still don't have enough for the kid when CS + Daycare is $600 a month. You've got to be joking. Your lack of ability to be financially responsible is NOT FDH or my problem.
I can understand but don't agree with anyone who, without having a mortgage to pay, could possibly rack up bills of more than 1k per month, kids (if they go to public school) included. (Then again, I go to the chinese grocery store where I can feed 3 people daily, 3 meals a day, for less than $100 a week. 69cents for a pound of tomatoes--yes please!)
I own my own house (but don't have a mortgage)--my monthly bills for two people total about $500 in the New York City area. I'm at a minimum wage job (although the benefits are pretty good), and I have still saved over 10k in the last 6 months, scraping together every penny. Of course, I took accounting and financial education courses in college, so I know how to be smart with money.
The funny thing is, the other day I was at a party with some of FDH's cousins and one of them, who is already a grandma, was saying how expensive kids are. FMIL was there and both me and her laughed--we said they shouldn't be. I began to lay out examples of what I intend to do when I have kids, against her "high cost" things--diapers, food, clothing.
Take my old clothes and sew them into baby clothes. There are patterns all over the web and instructions on how to do it.
Use washable diapers, or better yet, "bucket" train the child (where they go in a pot or a mini toilet from very, very early on, which makes the transition to toilet training much easier and they begin to learn how to hold it in from a young age.)
Food, puree and jar my own baby food.
And you know that cousin turned around and said to SIL, who is planning to have a baby, "Don't ever let Not2sure watch your child. That's abuse!" Yeah, okay, so that's why your grandson runs wild, throwing and breaking all his toys, and your guests can only look on in horror while he goes on his insane rampage at any given function.
Being smart financially needs good habits as a foundation.
Oh I totally understand that,
Oh I totally understand that, it takes two to tango but it was REALLY low of her--he was an absolute IDIOT for trusting her.
But she was hankering to get him a year before she actually managed to get down his pants (via FMIL).
So, she told him she was allergic to latex the first time he pulled a condom out. Turns out she's not. Told him she was infertile. Obviously she wasn't. Told him she was on medication for a disease that prevents pregnancy. Turns out she never had the disease. If that's not premeditation, I don't know what is.
She doesn't even like kids--got into a fight with a 12 year old girl, shit-talked her, because the girl was the center of attention at her baby shower. Imagine a 42 year old woman freaking out about a 12 year old girl, crying and yelling, and SOBBING over the fact that the girl was "trying to take the spotlight off her." She wouldn't have had one if she didn't think it was the only thing that could trap him. We know she was taking SOME sort of pill (her exbf said she was) that prevented pregnancy, only if she didn't have the disease, then what on earth was she taking it for? We think she was on BC but because she didn't want her then boyfriends attention to be off her, made up some story about having Crohn's so it wouldn't be suspicious.
Yeah. She was diagnosed with mental illness (which she is quite proud of, by the way) and both FDH and I are very into doing the right thing, even if it means having him pay a quarter of his income to her. Mostly because I can make up for it and more.
I guess I don't understand
I guess I don't understand the point of your post. How does it make anyone "sound better" to say their X owes "x" amount? If the payor is a deadbeat and doesn't pay, well, they're a deadbeat, regardless of how much the monthly amount is.
If it's $20 a month or $2000 a month.
I have one X who owes $30k+ (interest included.)I think the monthly amount was $296. It hasn't been a current monthly obligation in years.
I have another X who owes $60K+ (interest not included.) Monthly amount is $1855, and it is a current order.
He hasn't worked/paid in 3 1/2 years. I only got half of unemployment until that ran out. *I* still take care of my kids... they have a comfortable life, braces, a car, expensive EC's, the latest electronics, etc. HOWEVER, just because *I* had these kids doesn't mean that *I* should support them alone.
I didn't go buy sperm from a bank. There was a "loving husband" at the other end of the committment to reproduce.
I can even attempt to have
I can even attempt to have some sympathy for a woman who was married, had a good life, got divorced and all of a sudden the get nothing. But really, I hear it over and over again...my ex doesn't pay for our kid...I can't do it alone...but then they go and find some other guy and have a couple more kids with them? Like, if you could not afford your first child, whether your ex paid or not, why do you continue to have other children? Makes no sense.