Update: The GAL's Order
We talked to our lawyer last night. There are so many things in mid motion right now it is making my head spin.
The GAL has emailed recomendations to the judge and is working with both attorney's to finish his offical order for the judge to sign. We asked for a few provisions to be added, he said those shouldn't be an issue.
- No alcohol rule for both homes
- DH to be only father named- Not BM's boyfriend
- Specific dates for visitation outlined
- DH maintains medical rights and decision making ability
- Our Family Wizard
Then we talked about the fact that BM still won't respond to DH for anything, DH is still blocked from all communication from SS, we leave in 10 days. Basically it comes down to - Do we go through with the Writ of Assistance? After much going back and forth, we are going to threaten it, but not actually do it. We are sending notice to BM's lawyer that we have intent to do it. We are also sending over notice that if for whatever reason SS doesn't get put in the plane we will be moving forward with contempt to include all expenses - Lawyer fees related to spring break (There is a TON!), the Cruise fair ($1,095), Excursions ($500), Flight ($475). Since the court order was already in place for spring break, and the GAL backs DH on this, our lawyer is certain that she will be held responsible. He also told DH that if SS doesn't show for spring break that we should try for the custody flip. He believes that it if SS doesn't come for spring break that the GAL will recommend the flip. Apparently the GAL has lost confidence in BM at this point in time and if she doesn't follow what he says, things will not bode well for her.
After the call, DH and I talked. I told him that I wasn't sure I would want SS to live with us anymore. BM created a monster of a teen that sees himself as an adult now. An adult who is physically bigger than me and has no respect for either DH or I. I am not sure that I am willing/able to take that burden with DH going back to sea duty and all the parenting to really fall on my shoulders. We still have my 2 bios and SS18 (special needs) as well. DH seemed very supportive and agreed with me, that SS14 will be a nightmare based on what we are dealing with right now.
I am just overwhelmed right now. I am so torn between my own feelings about this trip and honstly at this point I don't think I want Ss there at all. I want to enjoy it and there is so much stress revolving SS and his and BM's behavior and resentment on my part towards him. 10 days... just have to make it through the next 10 days and we will be headed out of town for 8 amazing days of fun! I can deal with the rest after we get back.
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Yikes, I feel for you. I
Yikes, I feel for you. I wouldn't want SS there either. I don't blame you for feeling resentment. He has added so much stress.
Also, you absolutely should not be expected to be the "parent" while DH is gone, if they do the custody flip. That shouldn't even be a consideration!
I'm curious about what they will say with your provisions. Really glad you asked for OFW!
The judge turned down OFW 2
The judge turned down OFW 2 times before but I guess he recently gave it to another case and our lawyer thinks he would give it to us now. I am so glad!!
There is no way on God's
There is no way on God's green earth that I would want a custody flip with a 14 year old who has been alienated to the level yours has. And layer on sea duty? Nope!
If your DH deploys (as part of sea duty), the kiddo would go back to BM anyway. You won't have custody, the parents do, and either a judge would have to order you to have him in DH's absence or Mom would have agree, and neither is likely to happen, given your scenario. To change custody just to have to change it back for a deployment isn't going to sit well with any judge.
I know you've heard it over and over, but sometimes the most logical (and kindest) thing you can do is drop the rope.
They are going to roll into a
They are going to roll into a yard period, so as long as we don't go to war with Russia or China or something crazy, he shouldn't deploy, which is a total Godsend right now.
I just don't see how a flip would do anything positive right now. If there were no other kids at home, I would say bring it on, but we have 3 others to worry about. They deserve for home to be a peaceful and safe place. I feel like if SS14 moved in with us as things are right now, it would be constant turmoil.
The thinking on alienation is
The thinking on alienation is that the best course of action is to flip custody. Your SS is clearly dealing with alienation, so it makes sense, but it's a crapshoot as to whether it would be better or worse for him in the long run.
One SM I've read about on another SPs board had this kind of situation. Everyone agreed that the *right* thing to do was to flip custody, but because of the enmeshment with BM, a custody flip was likely to do more harm than good. Her DH dropped the rope and reconnected when the kid was older, but the kid was jacked up from the floor up.
You're right that the flip likely isn't the best idea in this case, but will DH be willing to drop the rope until skid is older?
You have to strive for a Drama free life
You can not live with drama everyday. No SS can not live with you, until DH is home all the time. That up to him, not you. You are not a babysitter for someone that does not respect you and your home. Once again I personally can not see taking SS on a cruise, he does not want to go on.
Its not like SS is excited to go. He not counting down the days. He’s not making any effort in going. I am sure if he shows up. It’s going to be him and his IPhone only. You are going to have to go out and buy him clothing. For seven days. Swim and beach wear. And everything else he needs. Shampoo, ect. Because you can’t afford to buy this stuff on the ship. And he is going to play you the whole cruise. Money for soda, candy, playing games. Not to mention, sharing a very small cabin with him.
You are right, I can't live
You are right, I can't live with drama every day. The way were are living now is taking its toll on me and my health.
As for the cruise, we actually already have his bag packed. All BS13's clothes that are too small for him. BS13 is bigger than SS14. DH is refusing to buy him anything extra. No soda package, no gifts, no nothing. The only thing "new" I bought was a 3 pack of underwear and 1 pair of Old Navy $3 flip flops.
The point of SS coming has gone from a desire to spend time and heal from the alienation to more of a - You will do what you are told to do, the end. DH is livid with SS14. Disgusted too. I really don't see him backing down and changing his mind on anything if SS shows up. I think that this will be a learning experience for SS (if he shows), Or a learning experience for BM if he doesn't when she is held responsible for probably close to $4000.
Yeah, no custody flip, not
Yeah, no custody flip, not with your DH going away. My SS wanted to live with us at 14, and I was ready to accommodate it, but dear god, am I ever glad it didn't happen.
Just curious - why are you not doing the Writ of Assistance?
It comes down to deciding if
It comes down to deciding if the damage that having the police escort him out of his mom's house is worth him being with us.
While yes, on some points it is, he will figure out real fast that he isn't an adult. His mom isn't above a court order. His dad is still a parent and he will do as his father says. BM will face jail if she interferes, she will be held responsible for costs since she refused to communicate. -- All really strong reasons to do it.
But... do we actually want him to come to us after that. Will he run away? Will he purposefully miss his flight and make DH miss the ship waiting for him? Will he say something stupid at boarding - like he is being brought on against his will or being kidnapped? Will he get violent with BS13 or SS18 while in their cabin? Will he emotionally abusive to my kids- Especially BS13 who has anxiety and depression issues?
If he comes becasue BM drives him to the airport and puts him on a plane I believe the behavior when he gets to us will not be extreme. I could be wrong, but I think it is a difference in the way he is being sent to us.
The Suspense
is killing me! I don't know how you do it. To me it seems the GAL is just phoning it in and the BM will do as she pleases. Hopefully DH will be psychologically prepared to drop the rope when SS totally PASes out.
Yeah, I'm naturally cynically
Yeah, I'm naturally cynically after my family court experiences, so this is what I see too. SS doesn't show up and no one holds BM accountable, and SS PASes out.
I think DH is feeling like
I think DH is feeling like you guys, and maybe I am a total fool but it seems that the GAL is over BM's antics. He is giving her the shot to do the right thing but if she doesn't, our Lawyer really thinks he will support a flip. -- NOT THAT I WANT THAT... but putting an end to all the BS with BM would be amazing.
The trouble is - it won't put
The trouble is - it won't put an end to the BS with BM. She will still be there, whispering in SS's ear about how he's been taken from her unfairly, and she will still file court petitions, etc. It's not the end. It's never the end with a BM like this.
The GAL may well be done with BM - but it's the judge that makes the decisions. And unless he/she is unusually versed in alienation, they typically go with the mother, even if they see some problems with her.
I agree
and EVERY.SINGLE.FATHER that spends oodles and oodles getting custody, eventually ends up paying CS to the BM as the skid goes running back to mommykins, the house with the least amount of structure and rules. EVERY.SINGLE.TIME
Chef comes into contact these these dads DAILY via his work, via his younger co-workers who said that "dad spent boatloads to get custody of me but was a disney dad and bailed me out at every turn to try and keep me from running back to mommykins" In so many words. The system is NOT geared toward the best interest of the children.
I totally get what you ladies
I totally get what you ladies are saying and I don't doubt it at all. I am hoping that DH won't jump at the flip and just take the reimbursement and figure out some other way to make sure BM complies with the visitation schedule.
I think he will have to say
I think he will have to say that he can't take a custody change, and isn't seeking it, because he won't be there to take care of his son. It's not your job to do it, and BM would understandably object. He just needs to make clear that what he's after is SS coming for his visitation, and some input into medical concerns.
I think what you asked for is
I think what you asked for is good. Though really the alcohol isn't going to be enforceable with BM. From the sounds of it, SS won't rat her out, but likely will rat your DH out. But it's good to have in the order just in case.
Did you ask for specific times too??? I think that would be good to add in. Means she cant' put him on weirdly late flights just to mess with you.
Keep us updated on how they respond! Also good call on tlaking to your DH, I wouldn't particularly want him with us full time either!
BM doesn't drink but her BF
BM doesn't drink but her BF does. SS has never liked her BF. He has told DH and I multiple times that if they get married he is moving out.
I think that SS could get pissed off at the BF and rat him out to get him out of his life or make a lot of trouble for him. It will be over something stupid, like the BF didn't give SS $$ or called him out on missing curfew. But I could see it happening.
We book and pay for all travel so I am not worried about times. BM doesn't get a say in them.
Works for me then. I hope
Works for me then. I hope that you get what you'd like there.
This is going to sound snarky
This is going to sound snarky, but it's a real question:
Do you actually care about the wellbeing of SS or just sticking it to BM?
I ask because the best thing for a kid who is being alienated (read: abused) is to be removed from their alienator. That would mean he lives with DH and you, if you stick around.
So you're jumping through ALL these hoops to bare BM's antics in court. What happens if the judge says, "you're right, BM loses custody"? SS then moves in with your DH, and you're stuck with an alienated SS.
You're to a point where there is no turning back. If you REALLY, REALLY don't want SS to live with you, then your DH needs to do nothing further after the spring break trip. If SS shows, great. If he doesn't, then you're out the cash. If the GAL is *that* anti-BM, and if the judge will listen *that* intently to the GAL, and your attorney *actually* thinks custody could change, then you need to be REALLY SURE you do or don't want SS with you. A judge is NOT going to be happy that DH put BM through the ringer and showed that she was mentally abusive to her son only to have Dad reneg on wanting custody. It will make ANY fight for visitation even harder.
Actually - being removed from
Actually - being removed from the alienator is only effective if that alienator then has limited or supervised contact with the child, which is not likely to happen.
It's more likely that BM will continue to alienate from a distance, via her visitation, phone calls, texts, etc. It would be shocking if the judge didn't give BM the usual long-distance NCP visitation, which just means SS will refuse to return to DH's after his first visit, and they will be back to square one.
With the general ignorance of alienation in our court system, removing a kid from the alienator doesn't do the trick. OR, the kid just flip-flops and is then alienated from the parent they were previously aligned with, which is no healthier. It really depends on the kid and the dynamics of the situation.
I absolutley care about the
I absolutley care about the wellbeing of SS! Am I ready to take on a more or less troubled teen with a BS13 who has GAD and Depression along with SS18 who is Autistic and Bi-polar? Along with an already super sensititve and emotional DD11 who is turning into a teenager so fast I can't even believe it? --- I am not sure.
There is so much going on here with alienation and medical abuse that it is insane that things have gotten this far. I don't know what the right answer is. I really don't. We would have to file for the flip. As of right now we have not done that. DH understands my hesitation. I don't think he would force that on me.
If I was in your shoes, I
If I was in your shoes, I would not do the writ of assistance. If SS isn't made available, I would rather be reimbursed by BM for legal fees and the cost of the trip (although unless you could offset CS, which you can't, I don't see her ever paying up) than risk the trip being ruined for everyone by a kid who was forcibly removed from his mother's house by the police and forced to go on a cruise he presumably does not want to go on. And don't think for a minute that any of you will have a good time even if your DH is the one who has to deal with an SS who doesn't want to be there. Sure, there's the possibility that SS, once delivered from the forces of evil, will be pleasant and happy to be there, but I wouldn't count on it.
As for the rest of it, your DH has been screwed left and right by that court. I don't anticipate anything changing. The GAL, no matter how fed up he is with BM, may or may not recommend a custody flip. And the judge may or may not go along with the GAL's recommendation. So far, you've had no indication whatsoever that the court will do anything in your DH's favor. There is no way I would invest more money on what is likely to be a losing battle to get custody. Especially since getting custody will likely turn your household upside down and create massive chaos and discomfort, at least in the short term.
Yeah, we aren't going to do
Yeah, we aren't going to do it, just threaten formally.
You are right about the reimbursement- can't get cash from a welfare recepient. However, and I confirmed that we could do this in lieu of actual payment- Get her to sign the IRS form to allow us to claim SS for her years until the balance is paid. SS makes about a $2000 difference in our return. We get him every other year. So if we can claim him on her years (2019,2021) that woud be the "repayment" terms.
Our Family Wizard--good recommendation.
First recommendation should have been 'Counseling for SS'
Remember jmtb custody will not change from mom TO your dh unless she is proven with FACTS to back it up, to be an unfit mother. The bar is very high to do that.
DH would have a better chance for custody change IF SS wanted to live with him. Then dh could go down that route.
I've been meaning to ask-
I've been meaning to ask- what are the dates of the cruise?? I'm anxious to see what happens!