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Posting as a BM - have a ? - how to handle

luchay's picture

or should I just let it go!!

Ok, so 2 weeks after I asked my ex Husband for a divorce he had joined an online dating site, within a month had met "the love of his life" and within 3 months they moved in together. They are still together and planning a wedding in Italy next year. (she's nice, I like her on the whole, I am happy for her great relationship with my kids etcetcetc)

The problem is.

Communication with my ex (they live in another state) can be strained to say the least, he is condescending and self-righteous. He stopped working at the beginning of this year, and has paid nothing in the way of CS or the other payments he agreed to in the Consent Orders (half of medical, school, dancing etc) He told me it would be for 3 months while he re-trained. So I have managed (my OH and I both work) We have covered the shortfall ($250 a week in CS as well as the extras - both our dd's have health issues - meds for 1 are $40 a month, specialists, operations, etc. Hearing aids and equipment etc for the other - you get the picture) Yes, financially life would be a LOT easier with that money, but we are dealing and hoping it all gets sorted and he gets a job soon.... 9 months down now...

Up until this last week all comms have been just between he and I (of course I talk to my OH and show him some of it - it has been quite abusive and nasty at times) and I am sure he talks to his fiancé etc the same - no problems - that's how it should be right?

There have been some issues re the deposit for the Disney dance trip - at first he was concerned he would have to pay something, I assured him I expected nothing financially from him, then he offered me his tax return (twice he offered this) to make up for what he hasn't been paying, I took the offer at face value and said that would be nice thanks.

So, with that in mind I thought I would use the tax return to pay the deposit, only when I asked (I know he has received it as there was one thing he needed to pay for and the rest he said he would deposit in my acct - he has paid this thing but radio silence on the part he offered to me) So, I asked "are you still able to contribute that tax money as the deposit is due soon" Have been politely asking in various ways for about a month with cagey answers and subject changes.

So now, the dep. is due mid Oct, I NEED to know asap what/if he is contributing (bear in mind he OFFERED) so that I can arrange my own budget to find this money if he lets me down.

I emailed AGAIN last MOnday (see prev. blogs) and he got all shitty about it, questioned everything about the trip, said it wasn't really a special dance thing, I just wanted him and SM to fund our "holiday" even emailed the dance teacher to ask if this was a special "invitation only troupe for outstanding dancers" or if "any family could just sign up and go for a holiday"

She advised him that if we were only going for the organised portion and not extending our stay (we aren't extending) then it is by NO means going to be a holiday, the girls will be working VERY hard most of the time, of course there will be some downtime, they get to meet the Disney characters at a special breakfast and we will get to explore a bit, but EVERY DAY they will be dancing for quite a large chunk of time, it will be intensive and hard work, and OF COURSE IT'S ONLY FOR DANCERS OF A CERTAIN STANDARD, they have to be invited to take part, as much as she loves her students not all of them are able to dance at the standard required for this event, so it IS a big deal. (I think she was shocked at his lack of faith in his kids)

Anyways, the emails have continued, he has questioned whether the girls should perhaps drop dancing as it places such a financial strain on MY budget, he feels personally that the cost of the Disney thing far outweighs any benefits and that we (OH and I) can't really afford it on our current budget, he has commented that perhaps we overextended in buying our house and should have gone for something cheaper.... you get the picture, all the while he has dropped the financial ball so really how fucking dare he!

To the issue.

On Sunday I get a text from his fiancé - the SM. Now she is great with my kids, I like her a lot, and sometimes regarding kid stuff we do communicate - dd10 needed to interview someone regarding their job - SM is a nurse so she chose her - I texted to set it up on Skype. That sort of thing, also re travel issues, at times I have comm'd with her - no dramas.

The text on Sunday. Basically, If I am expecting HER to contribute to MY holiday I need to give HER a guarantee that I will be able to meet MY financial part of the trip, can I assure her (as she knows our budget is tight) that I will be able to meet my responsibility as she doesn't want to lose HER deposit because I have dropped the ball.

That is a shortened version, but pretty much her words.

I ignored it.

Today I get more emails from him and notice that he is now cc-ing her on all our comms. I would not dream of cc-ing my partner, in my eyes it shows a marked lack of consideration and respect towards my ex. I may forward afterwards, show him or just tell him, but to bring him INTO the comms in that way - to me it just feels wrong. Oh, I have also been told I need to give them at least 8 weeks notice for when I am booking to send the girls over as SHE needs to give that much notice at work to request holidays.

Firstly, *I* work, he doesn't - why can't HE do all the running around and checking dates and flights and seeing what works for me. (petty but I am getting pissed)

Secondly, WTF. They are going to visit HIM. Her schedule and leave are irrelevant.

Am I being THAT BM?

How do I politely ask him to leave her out and for her to not comm with me regarding MY financials (FFS!) or more serious issues, can I even seeing as I am willing to discuss more minor stuff?

Fucked if I know what is right, ok or even not an issue any more, just so fed up with it all....

Comments

luchay's picture

And BTW - I don't tolerate the bitch brigade so offensive remarks will be removed.

I have no issue with anyone disagreeing and giving me an HONEST and FACTUAL opinion on the questions I am asking, but bringing nastiness to my threads just to shit-stir - no thanks, have a nice day, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

(posted because I have just deleted two mean girl comments - What-ever!)

Yosemite's picture

Not intending to be bitchy but I think you will have to compromise a little. I think it is reasonable for you to give enough notice for SM to get time off work so they can do family things. I am sure the kids will have plenty of time alone with their father.
As for the financial stuff, SM may not be aware of what dad offered in regards to the tax situation. In your shoes, I might reply that I certainly will have my deposit and that I am only asking for their portion because that was the arrangement dad made with me. I would then say that to keep the confusion to a minimum you would prefer to only discuss financial arrangments with dad, although you understand he will probably need to confer with her separately.
But that's just me. Good Luck!

purpledaisies's picture

I thought fund raising was cover some if not all the trip for the girls? So your exes part is half of what is left right? Sorry just trying to understand. As far as sm she might be thinking the same thing of the fund raising and her bf wasn't handling in a timely manner that she needed too b/c I know that if it were me dh's money is my money as well. I don;t think it was to offend you I think it was just to take of it sooner rather then later.

luchay's picture

No worries, originally it was only dd10 dancing the plan was to fundraise as much as possible towards her costs ($3000), and OH and I were paying for our portion and dd7.

Then the ex offered to pay $1500 towards dd10's. Twice he offered, and I accepted his offer and thought it was generous of him. (ok, I also thought he owes me way more in CS etc LOL so I will take anything I can get at this point!!) But the point is he didn't have to offer and I expected nothing from him.

So now from the fund-raising money we only needed to raise $1500 towards dd10. And contribute ourselves for us and dd7.

Then with all his bitching last week he got the dance teacher involved. When she realised my younger daughter (who also dances but was according to the paperwork 2 months too young to participate) was coming with us anyway she asked her to be part of the troupe as well. I said she was too young and she explained that she actually isn't and that there are 2 other younger girls going but it's hush hush as there were a couple of kids in one of the younger groups who she really doesn't want to come - think "dance moms" - the kids are good but the mums are nightmares. So, she said that dd7 was absolutely capable and she would love to have her in the troupe as well.

This now means that we can be allocated more of the fundraising money to help pay for her. So, as ex is contributing $1500 we are able to access $4500 of the fundraising money - if we make enough to cover that for all the kids then great! If not we contribute any shortfall of course.

I did NOTHING to finagle this, I did not ask or in any way cause this to happen. If the ex hadn't emailed the dance teacher basically implying that my dd10 wasn't really that good and that we just invited ourselves along to get him to pay for a trip (see first line of this message!!) then the dance teacher would not have been aware even until it was too late yada yada yada.

stepmonster_2011's picture

This.

Get him to start paying his back support and you won't have to worry about getting the SM to give up the tax return. Arguably - if he isn't working, then it is HER money that is in question, so she does have the right to question some things. Key - SOME.

luchay's picture

The tax return is his, as he only worked half of last year he got most of the tax he paid back.

IF I had done the right thing by US I would have notified the CSA the moment he stopped paying, and then automoatically his tax would have come to me to pay his unpaid CS bill.

And Foxie - yes - he is a kept man, she is supporting him. God bless her, I do feel sorry for her, and I do really like the woman. I would just prefer to be able to keep it that way - so involving her in theses contentious things is not going to help that I guess!

My OH is quite disgusted with him overall, his moral compass (and pride) would not allow him to just not work, live off his partner and not support his kids, he would do anything rather than be in that position.

GoodbyeNormaJean's picture

Why is he "giving" you the tax return? If he's behind on CS, CSSD should be TAKING his tax return and applying it towards his arrears.

I'm sorry to hear he isn't working. Times are tough. Still, he OWES that money, and he needs to pay up.

I understand from a SM's point of view the whole financial thing. I manage our finances here. We're custodial, but we are court ordered to pay half for some plane tickets for visitation. That BM realizes she has to deal with me if she wants anything done. Sad, but DH simply doesn't deal with stuff like that. He has no idea how much money we have or where to get it. I do all that stuff. Here it hasn't been a problem, but I don't sent snotty letters to the BMs either.

My opinion? He sounds like a d-bag. You should be irritated with him. I don't blame his future bride for being upset. Sounds like she lives with a bum who spends other people's money. Lame.

luchay's picture

:0 no worries, we are in Australia and it all works kind of differently here, and if I had just taken care of US instead of looking at their interests and well being as well I would have notified CSA immediately when he stopped paying and the TR would have ALL come straight to me.

Silly me thought it was the best thing to keep it all between us as I didn't want to cause them financial or any other stress and I thought we could cope for the 3 months he assured me his retraining would take.

Yes, she is the one with the purse strings (no probs it's her money after all LOL) Just got my back up that she was questioning MY financial capabilities like I was the one who was being irresponsible when that falls to HER OH...

twoviewpoints's picture

How does the non-CS work where you live? Was ex suppose to file a waive during the time frame he was 'retraining' aka unemployed? Do your laws allow you to seek arrears if ex hasn't followed the proper steps? Nine months with no support coming in as ordered is a longtime.

Anyway, as to the communication. I suppose except for the fact it's unnecessary and annoying to know he is cc-ing the emails, it's harmless enough. I would ignore and not answer any emails arriving directly from the SM. You don't co-parent with SM. Ex needs to put his big boy pants on and deal with you himself.

If you can swing the deposit on your own, I think you need to stop asking ex about the tax return for that reason. Your Dh, you and the kids can afford to go or not. It's likely the thought that Dh and you are also going that puts off the ex. It's not just the kids, but he feels he is financing a holiday for you/Dh. Doesn't seem to matter in your ex's head that he likely owes you that money and additional too whether there was an upcoming trip to Disney or not. He's got his head stuck on 'holiday' , let the tax check for the trip go. Stop asking. But on the other hand, if your CS laws allow legally going after items like tax returns when a parent is in arrears, I suppose you could think about getting past owed in that matter. If me, I'd be finished discussing Disney with the ex (except perhaps whatever permission he might have to give to allow girls to leave country). I'd not give him one more chance to play this negotiation game...however at some point this guy is going to have to get a job and start paying his CS. You have every right for your children's sake to expect your children get their support from their father. Do the Disney thing on your own dime and the fund raising efforts. Don't count on the tax money for that. If you decide to pursue the back Cs, don't do it solely for the Disney, you either intend to go after back support or you don't. Leave Disney out of the thought process.

luchay's picture

Thank you!

That is exactly what is annoying me, I never ASKED for his help, we planned originally to pay it ourselves and fundraise, but then he offered, more than once. So I took it at face value and though well that helps!!

The problems started when I actually asked if he was still able to help as offered, I asked repeatedly for a month with wishy washy avoidance, and I need to budget if we are to find it ourselves.

So then he starts with questioning me about my financial stuff - and I'm like "wow really, YOU drop the ball and stop contributing and then have the gall to ? me about how I can afford stuff???" Then to get messages from the SM about it too!!!!

Like - they offered I didn't ask, and yes - he would owe me way more anyway, and I don't want to get his back up because he may just refuse to sign the papers etc.

And I think it if were just the cc-ing on emails without all the other shit then I guess I would be not all that bothered by it, but for her to ? my financial commitment etc has just REALLY ANNOYED ME/.

LOL

CS - we let it go, as far as the Govt are concerned he has been still paying it all. I was ok with not messing with things, yes - it means we are behind financially but I didn't want to cause him problems.... or add to his financial pressures while he was re-training.... Just trying to do the right thing and be considerate. Again probably why I am so pissed at the current BS.

Ah well, will chalk it up and stay silent, if he wants to include her great she can see first hand what an ass he is being. I will not respond to her though about issues that are frankly none of her business.

Thanks everyone.

Lalena75's picture

I'm going to bet your ex isn't giving her the whole story. It isn't an unreasonable request on the time off issue.
As for the financial snarkiness I'd just kindly state that due to his complete lack of ability to mee his court ordered child support obligation, and his difficult behavior then it's probably best if you just submit to the courts a contempt order and recoup the financial obligation that way. Sometimes with rude people tit for tat is the only way, start cc-ing SM on your communications with your ex if need be, take it to court and expect he to not put anything towards it, document take it to court it's the same thing when it's BM's breaking a CO, why not the other way too?

purpledaisies's picture

I think CS is separate from the disney trip. I wouldn't ask for a dime for the trip but you bet your ass i'd be getting that CS.

luchay's picture

Yes!

And the thing is - I didn't ASK - his first ? when I told him dd10 was selected was how much would it cost him.

I told him NOTHING. That we would pay and fundraise and all he had to do was sign for her passport.

I expected nothing, I asked for nothing.

Then he offered.

When time came to start thinking about paying I asked if he intended to make good on the offer (not in those words of course LOL) and that's when the crap started.

luchay's picture

Oh, and to clarify the leave issue and how much notice I am able to give as to when the girls come over.

That is all set out in the consent orders as well.

The girls dance (you may have guessed LOL) and they have comps the first week of every holidays. I don't know the exact dates they are required (which dates they will have troupes or solo work) until the programs are made available - usually about a month out. Plus I work for myself, so I have to arrange flights around MY schedule and the kids schedule. But it is ALWAYS the second week of hols, just can't up from say which date arriving and departing and what times etc. til closer to the date.

Also as I am the one paying for all the flights at the moment (yes I know. I am a fool) I am looking for the cheapest flights possible so that might put out the days here and there - bugger if I am going to pay $119 to fly them on Sunday when on Weds I can get a $45 flight. (that's each - and for me as well, I have to fly them over, fly home, and then repeat the journey to get them back)

So, within reason they have a fair idea of when they will be coming, and I do give the notice I am required to as per court papers.

luchay's picture

ummm no offence but perhaps read what the Disney thing is all about before you make comments about it,

perhaps read the thread where I have repeatedly stated I did not ASK nor EXPECT any contribution from him/them - he offered I took the offer at face value,

the "Disney cruise" you are referring to is a dance school trip, audition and invite only, for a troupe of children to dance in a half hour show at Disneyland, dance in the parade, dance at universal studios and participate in 3 exclusive workshops with leading dance teachers - not to be a bitch, but it's NOT a FAMILY holiday,

I NEVER once stated here or anywhere else that I would not be paying for it myself and through the dance school fundraising.

The financial side of things was NOT my issue here. I am unclear as to why you have picked out those aspects and run the wrong way with them. All I can recommend is reading up and understanding what the actual problem is rather than making assumptions...

luchay's picture

I still don't understand where you are getting the cruise thing from?

And why you seem fixated on that and not the actual question I asked.

There is absolutely no cause for you to be nasty about an innocent child.

Perhaps instead of focussing on that you could direct your attention to the actual issues asked about?

AND - it is NOT my issue how there financial and budgeting issues are handled, I would not DREAM of emailing her and asking her questions about all of this - regardless of the fact that her partner is 9 months behind in CS etc.... I would think THAT is far from frivolous, but it's just not what you do hey?

So you seriously think that she has the right to insert herself into my financial affairs because HE is behind on CS and made me an offer to pay off some of that in a particular way? Surely if that was the case she should take it up with HIM not me? To question ME about my finances because she is pissed at his offer is wrong. Rude. etc.

AND - if I had done things by the book instead of allowing him to not pay and not reporting him (to help HER AND HIM BTW) HIS tax refund would have all come to me - it is up to me what I spend that on - not her, not him, not the govt or even Mickey freaking Mouse.

luchay's picture

I'm not actually expecting any back CS balance.... there will be no court ordered payment of any of the arrears.

I have not told the CSA that he has stopped paying - was helping him out by just letting it slide.

IF I had notified them his entire tax return would have been sent to me to cover his arrears - it is not part of his household budget and paying his CS debt would be the first priority (the Aus. Govt. works differently that the US in these things I gather)

So you are saying that his tax return instead of helping to support his kids should be put towards her fancy Italian wedding perhaps?

I get what you are saying, but as far as him not working and her supporting him, that is between them. I have been pretty fair about it and still intend to be. I still have no intention of notifying the CSA of his not paying.

As stated in my first response. This thread had nothing to do with my issue being that I am unable to take my kids on a Disney cruise (not even sure what that is to be honest?) My issue wasn't even financial or that I am asking for help re his non payment of anything.

My issue is that I don't want to comm with his fiancé and I sure as shit don't want her questioning ME about my financial status when he is the one fucking up.

itsmylifetoo's picture

I feel like there are two issues here...cs being one, communication with sm being another. I think one of the issues we face is that dad with kids...hes still a guy - know it's sexist...but research proves their brains aren't wired to do that generally...there are many exceptions. They aren't planners and most are not communicators, they don't care about details and frequently we end up taking on that role, we ask what's happening and they don't know. I have not taken it upon myself to email my bm if something with her children is unclear as told by my so. That's their deal...even when bm was screwing me over about my own money, I left it up to my so to take care of it. And now I've been putting my boundaries up about spending my money on their kids activities since I don't trust bm, SO doesn't have details, and I don't care.

He just sounds like a dbag with cs. I wouldn't plan on any money from him at any time. Co will have to kick in if he starts working.

luchay's picture

Update. They have agreed to pay an amt towards the deposit next month and the balance when the next payment is due - but they want to pay it directly to the dance school and not to me (LOL - I think I was supposed to be offended by that...)

He also says that HE will fill out all the paperwork for the girls regarding the trip and OH and I will have to do our own separate forms...

Ummmm I had to kind of explain that as OH and I are the supervising adults (each child requires an accompanying adult) we all need to be on the same forms, and that I would handle that bit - talk about overstepping!

luchay's picture

Yes, I am glad just to have a straight answer about it really, one way or the other.

That is actually ALL I have been asking for - if they were and if so how much basically is ALL I wanted to know.

If not - no probs, I needed to budget to pay it all myself - not a problem but obviously the more notice you get on these things the better!!!!

And yes, she IS the brains, the responsible one, the one actually interested in the girls strangely enough.

And I want to continue to have a good relationship with her, which is partly why I don't want her involved in the other stuff.

At least now I can move forward on what I need to do/pay and just get on with it!

prayingmantis's picture

Choose your battles.......easier said than done tho, eh?

purpledaisies's picture

I do agree with maryjeane though from a sm point of view if I were the only one bring in money I'd say no to the disney dance thing too. Hell my dd got an invite as well to go to the thanksgiving one but we didn;t have the money so she didn't go. I bet sm feels the same way about disney whether it is a dance thing or not she knows they don't have the money which is why she was questioning it. I can see where the sm is coming from.

No her contacting you is the wrong way of handling it. But I'd let that go.

As far as child support you need to get that taken care of. In my opinion the disney thing and cs is 2 separate issues.

Cocoa's picture

i think it's become too big of a mess...boundaries have been crossed (it's none of their business what your personal finances are with your dh, sm has no business communicating with you directly, etc..) take it ALL off the table, go with your original plan of doing without the ex's help. i'm sorry, I didn't read everything, but before your ex offered to help, were there plans in the works to re-institute child support? go back to where you were before this fiasco occurred. chalk it up to lesson learned. in the future, don't rely on "promised" help over and beyond child support. child support is all you're entitled to, so that should be all you ask. and, you are very much entitled. go get what is legally yours and your kids'. communicate this to your ex: I've decided to fund this trip on my own as originally planned and will not need your contribution. however, it is vitally important that you begin paying your court ordered child support, and I have no further need to communicate with your wife (or something along those lines). end this silliness. who cares why sm is contacting you? anyway, I've learned that it's never good to do "favors".

Cocoa's picture

just read your update...see what "favors" get you? he now thinks he's ENTITLED to cross more boundaries. i'd tell him to shove his $$ and just worry about paying his child support.

whatwasithinkin's picture

I am confused how you would think in September that someone still has the tax money they promised you months ago. Esp since he isnt working so we all know that money is gone.

And if you have not figured it out your Ex isnt paying for the trip your ex's fiance is, hence the reference to her money and the fact that she is CC'd on your emails.

So if your going to accept a check from them know it is not them you are accepting money from it is her on his behalf.

It is time to go back to court. If he is courted ordered for half then pay for it all and get to court for back child support and documentation for all the 1/2's he has missed and let the court sort it out.

Or suck it up and take the check but understand where fundementally it is coming from.

And although I can appreciate your feelings about this sight and how you dont tolerate the bullshit on your posts, however I almost didnt answer because of that very statement. Try not to lump everyone in with past experiences.

luchay's picture

I am in australia. Our financial year is july 1 to june 30 so tax is done well we have til i think october to get our tax in.

The emails her started ccing her on do not relate to the disney thing they are in general kid related comms.

As repeatedly stated he offered the money, i thought great ( if it happens) now the time is coming closer ALL I have been requesting is to know whether he would be helping as offered or not so i can arrange my budget either way.

I never asked or expected him/them to help HE offered. We would be doing it either way.

The comments about not tolerating the bitchiness were because the first two posts (which i deleted) were just nasty personal attacks and did not really relate to the question i asked. I watch the same few nasties attack people seemingly for sport and no, disagree all you like but do it in a respectful manner and i have no problems, come on here just to cause problems and i will delete.

To be clear i also deleted one of the nastier posts about my daughter.

If you choose not to comment because i choose not to be bullied thats fine - your choice and i respect that.

Oh and you obviously have no idea about my feelings towards this site. Not really sure what that is referring to - this site has been a godsend and i love tge majority of posters. A few not so much lol.

nothinforya's picture

I would file whatever was necessary to collect the 9 months of back payments, (which will no doubt become 12 or 14 months worth of CS and extras by the time you get some relief) THAT HE AGREED TO PAY in the consent order when you separated. Stop being so agreeable and allowing him to avoid his responsibilities. Do you have feelings of guilt about the separation? That's the only reason I can see for you to be so accommodating. You need to see that the money he agreed to pay is your children's money, not yours, and it is your duty to collect it.

hismineandours's picture

Its great that he agreed to pay what he originally offered to pay. But the first thing I'd do is go file for the cs. You can subtract the cost of the trip off the back support if you feel that would be more fair. But you will continue to have these problems unless you get some cs rolling. It's not fair to shortchange your girls in anyway because you are trying to be "nice". Maybe the sm will make your ex get up off his ass and get a job if you file for the support.