Final email sent to BM regarding SD & visitation
So, we've taken a new approach and hopefully she'll "get it" and drop shit.
Dear BM:
I'm sending you this email to discuss several VERY important things that have been discovered through conversations with Z over the course of the past 48 hours. She'll be at your home today after school for the simple reason that she WANTS to be there and I refuse to force her to be anywhere she doesn't want to be. You and I both made that promise to her and I intend to uphold my end of that promise.
The three of us have had several serious discussions to get not only clarification and answers for what happened in June causing all of the hurt feelings, but also about the future and what Z truly wants to be happy in life.
Here are the items we discussed and want to implement moving forward from today:
1. Z came up with a visitation plan that she prefers and that has worked for us in the past. She wants to return to the schedule we had settled upon prior to the argument we had over the summer. She WANTS to come to our place every other weekend on Saturday and Sunday as well as occasional Tuesday evenings of her choosing. It's difficult for her to come over for an entire week, since the time spent on weeknights isn't quality time, is very limited and there's not much for her to do as all of her friends reside in your neighborhood. This schedule was previously working well for us all and she stated YOU agreed to this too. Please inform me if this is not true, but her words were: "that's all mom wants is for us to have a set schedule for every other weekend".
2. Z also expressed that she doesn't want to go to court, doesn't understand why it's even necessary, and she just wants everyone to drop things and try to get along. She sees that we're both happy in our new relationships and frankly, it's pointless to spend money and time in court. Our main focus as parents should be what makes HER happy and what's in her best interests, correct? That being said, we can set an every other weekend schedule starting Nov. 3rd (since she said she'd like to attend Courtney's Birthday party) and go from there. We told her whatever Tuesday evening she wants to come over, that's her choice and all she needs to do is text or call in advance. We will have her home before 8pm so she can shower and get ready for bed.
3. It was brought to our attention last night that Z has a class trip to Washington D.C. coming up next year. Obviously, we had no prior knowledge of this but we definitely want to pitch in for half of her expenses. Please forward the details as soon as you can and we would be happy to send you extra money each month until half of the expenses are taken care of. We want to be involved in her school activities. The sole burden of this expense should not fall on your shoulders alone and had you brought this to my attention sooner, I could've already started contributing financially.
4. Z has mentioned she's very happy that you've moved on and you're in a relationship with someone she truly loves to be around. I do believe it's in her (as well as everyone's) best interests for the four of us to meet and get to know one another. It's honestly the mature way to handle things moving forward and co-parenting our daughter in an effective and peaceful manner. I would like to meet the person who is spending time with her as well as I do believe it's finally time you met my wife since she's spent a great deal of time with Z already and will continue to be a big factor in her upbringing. If you agree, we can arrange to meet at a restaurant for a drink and casual conversation. It doesn't have to be lengthy, drawn out or tense. A short meet and greet to get a line of communication established between all of us is only going to benefit everyone involved, especially our daughter.
5. Mel and Z have re-established a good relationship that they will continue building upon, and Z and I have as well. We stressed to her that it's extremely important to see her and keep in regular phone/text contact when she's not here. When that type of contact is established and maintained, there's less room for misunderstandings. We've all agreed that if something is misunderstood or feelings are hurt, we will have an immediate discussion and clear things up right away instead of letting things build over time and get exponentially worse.
In closing, major breakthroughs between the three of us have occurred and we all truly just want to peacefully move forward. If you disagree, there's nothing I can do about that, but I will tell you that we want Z to be happy. She can't be happy with us arguing back and forth and attending court appearances for something she's already decided she wants and said you're in agreement with. If you choose to take me to court that is fine but I will not make Z do anything that she does not want to do and I have made that perfectly clear to her once again. If it takes you taking me to court to uphold MY end of OUR promise to her, it only proves to her that you aren't putting her wishes first and want to continue causing further stress and financial hardship for us all.
Please let me know what your intentions are. Mediation is NOT an option for me and I refuse to spend hundreds of dollars on something we already agreed upon and actually put in place before summer.
Thank you.
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Comments
I'd imagine you'll find
I'd imagine you'll find yourself in court within the year.
At the VERY least, if this is all "agreed upon," PUT IT IN WRITING and file it as a stipulated agreement to modify the existing order.
DH still isn't going to be "abiding" by the court ordered parenting time, and BM is still well within her rights to file for more CS.
I am very happy the relationship with SD appears to be improving. I think that is the most important thing, actually. However, you cannot ignore that BM exists and that family court exists for a reason.
I'm not saying go duke it out in court, but file the notarized, stipulated agreement.
While I believe you are
While I believe you are probably right, it's worth a shot. Plus, now SD KNOWS who is causing the uproar and wants it to stop. So, if BM continues fighting DH and drags SD into court, she'll know what it's all for and what BM really wants - which she's denied to SD, by the way. BM told SD that going to court has NOTHING to do with getting more money! HA - we looked right at SD and said "then why does she want to go?" and SD says "for principle", that's what mom says...
I hope #4 works for you. In
I hope #4 works for you. In a perfect world the adults behave like adults and everyone gets along for the best interest of the kids, but this isn't a perfect world. Speaking from experience, our BM and her husband had no earthly reason not to get along with us, we went our of our way to get along. But they were dysfunctional people and they mistook our efforts for weakness. Their narcissistic, jealous, petty egos made them very hard to get along with. They were complete jerks most of the time with no need to be and made everything harder than it ever needed to be. They played their power-tripping games and temporarily caused us a lot of hassle but the real loser in all the drama was SD41, their head games have messed her up permanently. That's what these parents need to understand, not getting along hurts their kids forever. I still remember when BM and her husband would fight (often)-she would call us up and scream at us on the phone, then hang up on us. It almost got to be a joke. I'd answer the phone and hear nothing but a bunch of incoherent screaming, then the hang-up. I'd say "Honey, your ex-wife just called, not sure what she wanted". Sometimes she'd want to call and badmouth her husband to us. We'd tell her we didn't want to hear it and she'd scream at us and hang up (and threaten to withhold visitation or take us to court for more child-support). Anyway, your intentions are good and I hope it works out for you.
It's DH's idea for us all to
It's DH's idea for us all to get together and meet - because SD14 mentioned it and said it may be a good idea. I personally don't care one way or another. She's refused to meet me all this time so I doubt she'll agree to it, but he wanted to give the option and see if she's matured at all!
The whole issue DOES center
The whole issue DOES center around CS. DH pays BM even though they legally have 50/50 custody of SD14. SD14 and DH got into a horrible argument at the beginning of summer so she refused to come over anymore. BM decided she wanted to try and force DH to give up custody since SD14 was refusing to visit. However, DH doesn't want to give up custody and wanted to re-establish a relationship with his daughter.
She doesn't have any additional financial burdens, as we found out her boyfriend of 7 mos has moved in and is helping her pay rent and bills. The only "new" bill she has is that trip for SD but that's in June and according to SD, she took out a line of credit to pay the trip off in full. DH WANTS to contribute half, since it's his kid too even though he pays child support already and has half custody.
It's SD's idea to get us all together to see if we can forge some sort of communication. And DH would like to get to know the man who is now living with his daughter and provide BM the same courtesy, even though she's balked at meeting me before. She said she doesn't care who DH has around SD.
She knows I'm bi because during a get together with some friends, the kids were all in the playroom downstairs and she snuck upstairs to "spy" on the adults and someone mentioned it. She asked me about it on the way home that evening and I most certainly wasn't going to lie to her. Besides, she told me there are several gay and bi kids in her middle school who are openly dating the opposite sex. It's nothing to be secretive or ashamed of. I don't care if her mother knows either. It's who I am and I honestly don't give a rat's ass what anybody's opinion of me is. I treat everyone with kindness and respect until they give me a reason not to.
I highly doubt BM will go for us all meeting anyway. But if she did, it's not like she'd have to worry about me hitting on her! ICK GOD NO!
Where I come from, even when
Where I come from, even when you share 50/50 custody, CS is based on income set off.
(we share 50/50 but because DH makes more, he pays CS).
Now, based on 80/20...you no longer "share" custody. If BM has SD 80%, then she should be entitled to additional CS to cover the additional costs.
Extra food, extra utilities, clothing, everything.
REGARDLESS of who her SO is and how much he contributes.
If I were BM and my ex-husband was establishing 80/20. Then yes, I would go for more CS.
What she's not taking into
What she's not taking into consideration though is the fact that DH makes LESS now than he did when the original order was entered and she makes MORE...
They've never gone by the original 50/50 order. They only filed it that way to be "fair" to each other. They've ALWAYS given SD the option and promised her they'd never force her to be anywhere or with anyone she didn't want to. THEY promised her that...and again, have never gone by the original parenting plan.
BM has PAS'd the kid into never wanting to come over anymore until now. She was PERFECTLY fine with the every other weekend arrangement we had prior to SD and DH getting into the big argument and told SD she never had to come over to mean old daddy's anymore. Then wants to bully DH into giving up custody????
NOPE.
If she went to court, it's
If she went to court, it's likely she would succeed.
The court would look at current the "agreed" to access schedule. DH has "agreed" to the 80/20 split.
A court would order that he pay BM CS based on BM having full custody.
If BM has SD for more than 60% (overnights) essentially, she has full custody.
It doesn't matter what you "want", its how the Court system works.
And like I said before,
And like I said before, that's fine, but SHE has to initiate the court filing on her dime. We're trying to show her that it's NOT like she is going to bully DH into rolling over and just giving her what she wants.
If she pays the filing fee and files in court, DH will go, stand up in front of a judge, show him all the documentation and go from there.
BM is forgetting that she makes MORE now and DH makes LESS than when the original parenting plan was drawn up. So, I'm unsure of exactly how much she makes, so I can't do an accurate calculation based on Colorado formulas, but if she gets ANY additional CS, it won't be much.
If she can show that she has
If she can show that she has SD 80% it doesn't matter WHAT her income is, because essentially, she has full custody. It will be based solely on DH's current income. He would pay CS based on his income today.
I would agree that it would be her to initiate filing for the modification of the original plan, but your DH would have to pay his own lawyer fees. As well, she could, in her application, request DH to pay all "court costs". Although a judge might order that each pay their own "court costs" which are separate from legal fees.
For 50/50 it works like this. DH would pay BM 1,000/month based on BM having SD full time. BM pays DH $600/month based on DH having SD full time. The set off is: DH pays BM $400/month.
Today, she can show that she has SD 80%. She has it in writing that DH has agreed to this.
She initiates a modification in court to amend the current agreement to show her with SD full time. Based on my example above, DH would pay her $1,000/month in CS as well as about 60% of the "extra expenses": medical, dental, extra curricular.
Well that would suck ass
Well that would suck ass because DH and I can't afford $1,000 per month. Hell, my ex has full custody of my daughter and I pay half that...
ETA: In the state of CO - even if I insert ZERO overnights with dad, mom's income at Zero, the calculator states it's $481 per month father owes mother...
$1,000/month was just an
$1,000/month was just an example (as I don't know what your DH makes).
If you used the CO calculator, its likely that $481/month is what he would be ordered to pay.
If your BM is asking for more than $481.00 its likely because she doesn't know what DH's current income is.
You can present her (or better, her lawyer) with your recent tax assessments and pay stubs to prove DH's new income, offer her $481/month and request she pay her lawyer to prepare the modification and DH can "consent" to it, then her lawyer can put it in front judge for approval.
You'd save a lot of $$ in legal fees and court costs. All you would pay for is your lawyer to review it with DH.
It's $481 utilizing her
It's $481 utilizing her income at ZERO, though. She works full time now. And yes, even if she has 100% overnights, her income still has an effect on DH's child support amount, according to the calculator.
So, in all likelihood, it's going to be roughly $350ish or less (I based her income off of $10 per hour, 40 hrs per week, since he said that's what she made part time, but now she's full time).
That's $100 more than what he's paying now. He already agreed to send her that amount to cover health care coverage that she promised to provide to SD and hasn't. All she had to do was fill out the forms and turn them in. That was in May. So, again, not sure where all of this is coming from other than she just NOW decided she wants more money...
And we're 99% sure she doesn't have an attorney. She never claimed to, SD says she doesn't and she's been pushing DH to mediation because that's cheaper than a lawyer, she says.
If those sums all work out,
If those sums all work out, then it sounds like you have nothing to lose? In which case is it worth pitching a great battle over it? Her seemingly sudden concern over money probably stems from the fact that having tried out the new custody arrangement she has already found out that her costs have gone up, and teenagers are a lot more expensive than younger children, they want/ need a whole host of stuff to support their growing independence and activities. I know when SD14 moved in with us and reversed the previous custody arrangement our living expenses went up significantly, and it wasn't like we were lavishing luxuries on her all the time.
Maybe it works differently in
Maybe it works differently in your state. Here, full custody is based on having the children more than 60%.
Here, it wouldn't matter what BM made because she is the CS recipient based on full time custody.
Here it wouldn't matter if BM made a million dollars a year if she had SD more than 60%. DH would have to pay.
Also remember that CS is ONLY food, shelter, clothing.
ANYTHING outside of that, is shared and pro-rated based on each parent's income.
Wait until she starts an action. Good luck
I understand what you're
I understand what you're saying. And if it came down to that, I'd most certainly stand up in a court of law and testify exactly what I am. It's not like we have orgies at our home or expose SD to anything sexually related! My orientation is none of her concern and unless SD says I'm hitting on HER or molesting HER, which is the furthest from the truth, there's no worries.
Besides, once SD tells her SHE'S bi, BM doesn't have any ammo anymore...it's not like she can say I "taught" SD...
Yeah, not my opinion on the
Yeah, not my opinion on the whole subject so it's news to me as well! I'm not in an open relationship. I'm not repressing anything either. And yes, I married my true love and I'm hoping to live happily ever after!
If BM takes no interest in
If BM takes no interest in meeting you, I wouldn't push it. If they aren't into the meet & greet, let it go.
Take it on SD's word that BM's guy is decent. She seems to get along with him fine, & really, that's what's important. Apparently, BM trusts that your DH is using good judgement in who he introduces his daughter to. With SD's rave reviews of BM's guy, I would just extend BM that same courtesy.
I really think that the email communication can accomplish what needs to be accomplished, & that way, BM won't feel like her relationship is being scruitinized. To be very honest, had I known BM was such a bitch, I would've refused to meet with her. I feel like our "meet & greet" made her feel like part of our marriage, as long as she claims anything is "about the kids". She feels free to call me about DH's CS because she's certain that I want "what's best for the kids". She seems to think that because we've met on a more personal level she's justified in expressing her thoughts & opinions with me.
I know every situation is different, but her & I meeting & talking face-to-face blew boundaries out of the water for her. I can understand, & wouldn't blame BM, for not wanting to get together with you & your DH.
Yeah, I get that too. Since
Yeah, I get that too. Since SD asked, we agreed we'd ask BM so that's all we did. We've yet to receive a response, but that's not surprising. She usually takes her sweet time.
We definitely wouldn't push the issue if she refuses. That's fine. I honestly don't want to be that close and face to face with her anyway. And I will NOT be giving her contact information if we do meet. LOL
I think all the accusatory
I think all the accusatory tones is going to make the good portion of this mute.
Go through and take out all the "and now she knows who the problem is" type of things, such as "In closing, major breakthroughs between the three of us have occurred and we all truly just want to peacefully move forward. If you disagree, there's nothing I can do about that, but I will tell you that we want Z to be happy. She can't be happy with us arguing back and forth and attending court appearances for something she's already decided she wants and said you're in agreement with. If you choose to take me to court that is fine but I will not make Z do anything that she does not want to do and I have made that perfectly clear to her once again. If it takes you taking me to court to uphold MY end of OUR promise to her, it only proves to her that you aren't putting her wishes first and want to continue causing further stress and financial hardship for us all." This is just being snotty. It all sounds like the whole thing was written by the girlfriend with some passive aggressive stuff weaved in to it about how YOU are the problem and WE have such breakthroughs. If someone sent this to me, I would tell them to F off.
Just take out the passive aggressive and accusatory crap, its useless unless you are intentionally TRYING to set BM up to reach to prove to SD that SEE BM is the bitch and doesn't put YOU first. -more passive aggressive manipulation.
Take out the snotty comments and the "YOU might do this" comments. Make it very NON-emotional and less obviously from the SM *IF* you are wanting it to be a peaceful reaching out to mend fences and work together.
DH told me what he wanted the
DH told me what he wanted the email to say, I simply typed it up and made sure it made sense. He revised it several times to his liking and sent it. And yes, he's definitely WANTING to get the point across that HE is not forcing SD to do what she doesn't want to do, BM is.
This was ALL brought on by BM wanting more money and PASing the kid so badly she didn't want to come over our place anymore. Now that the kid sees we're not the ones pushing court or pushing her into doing something she doesn't want to do, BM's true intentions are clear as a bell. MONEY. SD isn't happy that her mom is going after dad for more money, especially now that SD's spent time with us and realizes all we want is for her to be happy (frankly, I would love to only have to see her once a month if that, but I have my own reasons) and DH isn't going to break the agreement the 3 of them had when SD was 11 (3 yrs ago) which promised SD had the right to choose where she wanted to be regardless of the parenting plan.
She manipulates us, we fight back. Not simply going to rush off to court or mediation and pay big bucks so she can sit on her ass at home and collect more money while continuing to turn his kid against him. NOT HAPPENING>
I don't want to come off as
I don't want to come off as attacking you but I honestly don't think you should send that letter as is. First of all, the kid is only 15.
You have completely put her in control of the situation: "Z came up with a parenting plan" "Z doesn't want to go to court" "Z is happy you are in a relationship"....
REading that all I could think was a big fat SO?!
Z is not a parent, therefore it is not her place to be making parenting plans that at the ripe old age of 15, she THINKS benefit her. It is not about what she WANTS, it is about what is best for her as the CHILD.
Z doesn't want to go to court. Z should not really even be aware of the details of court proceedings enough to even have an opinion on that.
Z is happy you are in a relationship. Would it matter if she was UNHAPPY with her mothers BF? How many times do we hear on here that the child does not get to make decisions on who either parent is dating? Sounds like she has the power here...
BM wants to take you back for more CS. Shes TRYING to get you to make it official that you only have SD every other weekend so that LEGALLY she has a foot to stand on when she does. The other posters are right, if you have her less, she CAN go for more CS.
And what is this bullshit about SD doesn't "want" to stay with you 50% because her friends live in a different neighborhood. Sorry sweetheart, you are 15!!!!
She should be doing her homework and spending time with her family, not running around all night with her friends. That is what weekends are for.
SD choosing a parenting time "a tuesday of her choosing"... really? So now all your future tuesdays are on hold in case she decides to show up.
I say stick with 50/50. This whole thing sounds like SD is in cohoots with BM and was TRYING to get you to side with her so her mom could get more cash out of you guys....
*oh stop it you (first girl
*oh stop it you
(first girl crush yay!) 
No worries. I open myself to
No worries. I open myself to criticism by posting so I welcome it.
She's actually just 14. And her mom and dad gave her that power from day one, not me. THEY promised her she could decide where she wanted to be and neither would force her. That was THEIR mistake but DH wants to abide by it and stick to his word to her.
We ASKED SD what she preferred to do. Look, we don't WANT her every other week. Especially during the school year. It's a pain in our ass and we're moving to a smaller apt next weekend where she won't even have her own room. No need to have her there all week long.
They've NEVER gone by the original court ordered parenting plan - ever. They've both always left it up to SD. And BM didn't have ANY issues with the every other weekend thing prior to SD and DH having a huge fight in June. Then she started PASing the kid into not wanting to come over JUST so she could take him to court for more money and have him give up his right.
SD was told clearly that if she wants a Tuesday night with us, she's to notify us by email or text IN ADVANCE so we are free.
The 50/50 thing was never put in place in "real life". It's merely on paper. Again, they've NEVER gone by the every other week thing (aside from a brief time period of 2 mos and then went to every other weekend).
Well that's what we're
Well that's what we're telling her. Drop this bullshit since you really didn't care before summer anyway or take him to court on YOUR dime. He's not shelling out $150 per hour in mediation to agree to any of her demands so it's on her to file in court.
I have to agree with
I have to agree with IamaLady
It seems like you are giving the 15 year old way too much power.
If the court order says 50/50, go by the court order. If the BM wants to take you back to court for more CS, let the chips fall where they may.
As I've stated before, both
As I've stated before, both BM and DH allowed SD14 to have that option from the day they split. It was their promise to her.
They've NEVER gone by the original court order and only assigned the 50/50 to be "fair" in the eyes of the court. DH still pays her $250 a month in child support.
She never had an issue before when we were going every other weekend - and frankly, every other week just doesn't work for any of us.
I think allowing a child to
I think allowing a child to decide the visitation schedule is a mistake. I don't get it. I would never promise something like that to my child.
Edited to add - "That was THEIR mistake but DH wants to abide by it and stick to his word to her."
If Dad realizes something he's promised to his daughter was a mistake he is under no obligation to keep that promise. If he promises to buy his daughter a new car and then she fails her driver's license test is he still under obligation to buy her a car?
Situations change, parents make mistakes. Just because he promised to let her dictate the visitation schedule does not mean he can't change his mind later on. Especially due to this becoming such a headache for everyone!!
I understand that they've never gone by the CO, but that only works when the parents agree. When the two parents can't agree anymore, it's time to go by the CO.
BM can take you to court, and DH can say, "But Judge, I'm going by the CO."
While I agree with you, it
While I agree with you, it wasn't my kid nor my choice to allow her to have that kind of control. They did that and they did all sorts of other stupid shit with regards to raising her but again, that's neither here nor there.
BM had no issues with going every other weekend before and told SD that's all she's trying to do is "get the court order changed so it says every other weekend instead of every other week" - of course, she told SD this has NOTHING to do with money.
And the judge will want to know SD14's preferences too. SD of course, is going to side with BM cuz BM lives right by the school, in the same house where SD was raised and all her friends are there. She is allowed to do as she pleases and hang with her friends after school. BM has no rules or discipline either.
The 50/50 every other week thing just does NOT work well for any of us, and DH is going to stand by his promise to the kid, right or wrong. If he ends up in court, so be it.
Well, my daughter is 14 (6
Well, my daughter is 14 (6 mos older than SD) and she says there are openly gay and bi students in her high school. SD14 says the same and she's still in middle school. I knew at around 11 that I was...
She can blame whomever she wants, but I've never said anything to SD regarding my sexuality other than answer her a simple "yes" when she asked if I was bi-sexual. I've never influenced her in any way and to me, you're either born with that or not. It's not a "choice" to become gay or bi...
He sent it this morning. I don't expect a prompt reply from her since she always takes her sweet ass time. And she can't afford an attorney. SD said the only legal advice BM has sought was through a free consult with a family law legal aid establishment.
Oh well. I'm not sweating this or expecting anything really. I'm just glad SD is at home where she belongs, we're all working on our relationships and BM can suck it!
I don't know anything about
I don't know anything about your BM, so forgive me if I am missing a whole load of raving loony history, but from what's written here it sounds like she has a decent job, a nice boyfriend and up till now has been pretty flexible about custody arrangements? Is it that terrible of her to now want the court order to accurately reflect the new arrangement? Or to feel that if she has the greater share of time and living costs, because SD prefers to have one main base near her friends, that your DH's contribution should be reassessed?
Your DH is obviously a supportive father and not penny pinching given his willingness to voluntarily contribute to SD's school trip, so I wonder why he is making such a big deal out of reassessing child support, especially if, as you say, the adjustment would probably be minor given the difference in income? If it were me I'd be a lot more sceptical about contributing 50% to an expensive school trip I didn't agree to, than making a small monthly increase in child support to reflect the fact that I have to feed/clothe/entertain/keep a roof over SD a lot less than BM does. I think the idea that the change won't impact on her because her boyfriend is contributing to the household is a real red herring and completely irrelevant to whether your DH should pay a fair share of SD's costs. On that logic your income would be taken into account if the situation were reversed. Would that seem fair? I don't mean any of this in an attacking way, but it's quite easy to put your head down and get into an entrenched resentful position, especially given the inevitable tensions with ex-partners and sensitivity about being exploited or manipulated. I just wondered if maybe DH has dug his heels in unnecessarily? Anyway, congratulations on your breakthrough with SD, it can be incredibly rewarding to make progress with a stepchild, especially given the odds that are often against it, and I really hope the new arrangement works out well for you.