Now she is saying that the KIDS say they don't want to come by their dad for summer visitation
BM complained about how having the kids at home for the summer is extra expense for her because she has to provide meals when they are not in school and additional entertainment and activities.
DH stepped up and reminded her that he will have them for his summer visitation (4 weeks) and will gladly have them for more time, to defray expenses and give her time for herself.
And she replies to say that the kids said they don't want to visit with him for the summer.
"You can ask them when you see them, but be a REAL parent and ask them nicely, don't make them feel guilty when asking just to get the answer you WANT to hear. It wasn't my choice at all, I asked them if they wanted to spend any weeks by your house over the summer and they both said NO. I did not push or stress them further, I simply accepted THEIR choice!"
They are afraid to tell her that they want to come here, I'm pretty sure of that.
I'm not sure what to do anymore. I am tired. Now I know how DH feels. Now I know why he doesn't care to stand up for himself. Now I know why he doesn't care to rock the boat. She is so jealous that DH has moved on, and so insecure about her kids enjoying any time with me.
What is really the best thing to do in the best interests of the kids in this case?
Is it in their best interest to try to persuade them come, so that they can spend that time with their dad and his extended family?
Is it in their best interest to let them do whatever they feel most comfortable doing, even if it is to not come here solely in order to not incur the wrath of their mom?
Is it in their best interests to fight for time with them? Or is it in their best interest to avoid fighting for time with them?
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BM in my situation does the
BM in my situation does the same stuff. She tells DH that SS is "afraid to tell him" that he doesn't want to be at our house is DH isn't at home (i.e. at work). SS is perfectly adjusted. Sure he misses his dad when he is not there, but he would miss his dad at her house just the same. He has a FAMILY at our house and there is NOTHING that he is afraid to tell his dad. I hate when she pretends to know what DH's relationship with SS is like. She is NOT there to witness it. I AM, and there is nothing that SS won't tell him. If there was a problem, he would tell his dad. BM will say it and SS feels like he HAS to agree in order to keep from hurting his mom's feelings. Manipulative PAS. That's all that is, and you are dealing with the same thing it sounds like.
DH just ignores her. He is a kid, and he has no choice but to be at our house when it is our scheduled time. There is nothing in the paperwork that says "he doesn't have to if he doesn't want to" or "only if DH is home". So, BM can pound sand. No need to even ASK ss about it. He is a kid, and DH makes the decisions for him for now.
That just SUCKS. If BM in
That just SUCKS.
If BM in our situation wasn't a COMPLETE NUT-JOB loser freak, I think DH would be more flexible to the point of allowing her to manipulate. In our case though, BM is not capable of raising SS to be a normal, functioning adult. DH is forced to be the "dominate" parent (even though we both believe it there shouldn't BE a dominate parent, it should be BOTH parents) BM cannot be trusted with her choices that she makes for herself, that effect SS.
The reason I say DH would be more likely to allow PAS if she weren't so STUPID... he is still a lazy parent. She does all of these stupid things (and TRUST me that story is MILD in comparison) yet he doesn't do anything about it. He won't mention it to BM, he only worries about what happens at our house, and makes sure that SS is here when he is supposed to be. It's like "out of sight, out of mind" with DH. That is until something serious happens. I pray that never does. I understand we can only control what happens at OUR home. But at what point do you put your foot down and say "enough is enough, he is living with me now"? When she actually HURTS him with her poor choices? We know she makes them, she has just been lucky so far.
PA indeed! Our BM phrased it
PA indeed! Our BM phrased it in very much the same way. She didn't invite DH to ask them himself, though. She came right out with, "Please don't bring it up with them. It will upset them & make them feel guilty. I think we just need to RESPECT THEIR WISHES."
Being a "real" parent means playing a responsible active role in your child's life. A responsible parent will step up & BE A PARENT. A alienating parent will play "friend" & respect ALL of their wishes.
There need be no "persuading". Only parenting. That means DH tells BM that he will indeed have them for his time over the summer. If the kids have an issue with upsetting BM, it can be explained that the court order states DH gets 4 weeks of the summer. That's just how it is. It should not be left up to the kids to pick & choose. That's where they get stuck in the middle in trying not to hurt one of the parents.
If it's an issue where BM won't be a parent & support the relationship between the kids & their dad, then your DH needs to be up front with her & explain that his time is stated in the court order, & that if she doesn't comply, he will see her in court on charges of contempt. Then, he needs to follow through with it.
Sounds like she wants more
Sounds like she wants more CS. I hope he won't buy into that. Also, since when do these kids get a choice? They should have to do what the CO says. I would tell your DH to enforce it.
I bet you're tired. It's
I bet you're tired. It's tiring.
Thinking outside the box sometimes helps.
Why do you think she's doing it? Going beyond the obvious reason in that she doesn't like that DH has moved on.
She's insecure. She probably is in fact broke and is feeding a need for something to make herself feel better.
IF IT WERE ME... and again, I think differently than others. I'd soothe the fear and validate the insecurities... and dismiss the projection. If only to get what I want.
Dismiss the "noise" better known as the "dumb-shit-she-says-that-means-nothing-to-anyone-but-her" and read the reply as:
"You can ask them when you see them. I asked them if they wanted to spend any weeks by your house over the summer and they both said NO."
I'd reply with something along the lines of...
"I'm sorry that they don't want to spend a longer period of time over here. Maybe I will talk to them about it and I will definitely respect any decision they make. They seem to have a good time over here when they do come. I bet they're gonna miss their mom and are a little bit scared of being away from you. Is there something we could do to alleviate that for them?"
It sounds like you're bowing down to the beast, but sometimes doing just that will calm the beast... and she'll settle down to the point of a bearable state. Lend her to think that you believe the grand illusion she has of herself, even though you don't, and she'll stop trying to convince you of her greatness.
Yes. She wants more money.
Yes. She wants more money. She has always claimed to be working only 20 hours all along. But the latest claim is that her hours have been cut from 25 hours down to 20 hours. And her grand complaint is that DH never offers her any extra.
Is she insecure? Yes.
Is she broke? Perhaps, because she does not know how to manage her finances well, and wants to live beyond her means when she no longer has DH funding her lifestyle.
Does she need something to make her feel better? Perhaps.
1)Her boyfriend is many states away so unable to physically comfort her.
2)She wants someone to admit that she is the better parent.
3)She wants her kids to comfort her and tell her that they don't like to spend time with their stepmom.
4)She wants DH to voluntarily give her more money for all the hard work she does to take care of the kids. He did tell her how much he appreciates what she does for the kids, but she does not really care about that, appreciation is not enough, money speaks much clearer.
CG - I appreciate your out-of-the-box thinking. But I personally think she will call such a response bullshit. "Is there something we can do to alleviate that for them?"
<< Yes, DH can give me more money and stop harassing the kids to spend time with him and Stepmom31 when they don't want to. I will take care of them DH, since you clearly do not respect their feelings and choices. >> That would be her response. She would never admit to feeling insecure.
OK. Is it really all about
OK.
Is it really all about the money? Probably. Maybe. Definitely.
I would love to be able to spend time with my kids more often and have someone else pay for it. She's feeding a perceived need in there somewhere. Perhaps she is just afraid.
She doesn't like the kiddos hanging out with Dad and Stepmom... because why? Perhaps she is a black and white thinker in that she feels insecure as a parent and them loving you equals them not loving her. I would not expect her to ever admit it.
My stepkids mom used to forbid my presence... not because I was an awful person and the kids hated me (like she said), but because she is a black and white thinker. She was afraid that any mothering I did was a reflection that she wasn't fulfilling the role.
Rather than demand that she change and stop feeling the way she did, I just helped ease that fear in her. I stopped taking her projections personally.
It's not something that is comfortable for everyone. She also responded a lot like what your predicted reply was at first... and it took a lot of effort on DH's and I's part to play the game.
It just works for us and I was offering it up.
Hmmm... you make a very
Hmmm... you make a very interesting point "She was afraid that any mothering I did was a reflection that she wasn't fulfilling the role."
This might be a part of it. I have a very clear idea of my parenting role, and my values are very different from hers. DH's values are very similar to mine but he was not really allowed to express them nor reinforce them. Together, however, and especially since we have a child together, we are parenting as a team, in a very different style from BM. She must be taking that personally, although we are simply living the way we wish, not necessarily trying to make her feel terrible.
Just wondering though... how long did it take, playing "nice and reassuring" for you to see a change?
A difference? Immediately.
A difference? Immediately. But that's because I changed my outlook. I made a very conscience effort to lay down the power struggle and stop taking her so gosh darned personal.
Two days ago, she sat next to me at a softball game for the very first time in over 4 years. She thanked me for buying all the little ones sandwiches where she had forgotten to bring them lunch at an all day sports tournament. I told her that we were all lucky that *I* remembered, because I've done the same thing to my kiddos before! (I do just about anything to soothe this fear in her, where I "up" her as a parent)
There's a communication technique I talk about all the time called SET (sympathy, empathy, truth). It helps our relationship partners (whoever they may be) feel validated and heard. Basically saying "I'm sorry you feel that way, I would be upset too, the truth of the matter is XYZ".
Like when my youngest wants ice cream for breakfast "I know you're hungry and want ice cream, I really like ice cream too. Ice cream is for dessert, cereal is for breakfast! We'll save ice cream for dessert."
Sure, it seems silly. Sure, I'm not exercising my "authority" or my "rights". But in the mind of a child, she just wants ice cream. There is no valid reason as to why she can't. I can't convince her otherwise by pounding it into her little brain.
A lot like the emotionally immature mind of my skids' BM as well. She will probably never "get it". So I quit trying to hope she ever would.
I think the only thing
I think the only thing children should WISH for is Santa to be real.
I agree, dh USED to ask the
I agree, dh USED to ask the kids IF they wanted to come or not b/c bm was always saying they didn't want to see their dad. That was so wrong b/c they really did want to see him they just said that to shut her up. I am willing to bet that they are afraid to tell her. I am also agree that all she wants is money b/c bm did the same thing to us talking dh into thinking he couldn't afford to have the boys and then once he agreed to not taking them she than said well since I have them it is only fair I get more money. I worked on him for a while and once he stopped asking and telling them that they don't have a choice till they are 18 it all stopped. I have to tell you that once dh put his foot down and gave bm boundaries it goes much better now. Not that we don't have any issues with her but dh understands that he can't let her do those things to him anymore.
It is always going to be that
It is always going to be that way sorry to say .My ex ,( psycho) always tryes to control me by putting the kids in the mix to try to make me feel bad. Man , I can't wait untill they are old enough to tell her to stick it. Bio moms need to get a grip. It should be what makes the kids life somewhat normal and happy. Not always about what I can do to make dads life a living hell.
DH says the same
DH says the same thing!
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We've got 7 more years... what about you?
"If my kids say they don't
"If my kids say they don't feel like seeing their BD, I say tell someone who cares. That's your dad and we have a schedule and you are children who do not make these decisions. My kids are far from perfect but they are happy, well adjusted and know they have two parents who love them and will back each other up"
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Perfect!
She is setting herself up as
She is setting herself up as controlling the situation by being the one to talk to the kids, and then relaying the message, and then saying "don't talk to them." But she gets around the controlling by using the word "respect" as if a father talking to his children about what they'd like to do in the summer is disrespectful. You're twisting yourself in knots because you're sane and actually do care. Your question is, what would be best for the kids?
When she says, "be a real parent and ask them nicely" she's really going for the gut, ie, he's not a real parent and can't be trusted to not pressure them. In other words, she's implying that she's the only real parent around, and that she has to be HIS parent, telling him how to behave.
It does indeed sound exhausting. Any way for DH to bring it up to them in a pleasant, "what would you like to do" way that won't launch World War III?
I don't see any reason for
I don't see any reason for any of it to have to go through the kids. It is regarding visitation. It should be handled solely through BM & DH. As far as his 4 weeks through the summer. He needs to let BM know that it is NOT an OPTION. It is stated in the court order that that is HIS time. As far as the extra time through the summer, she can weigh her options. Having them with her more, it will be her responsibility to provide food & entertainment. If the cost/inconvenience is more than she wants to put out, she can give him more visitation. He needs to be clear with her that the court order will stand. He needs to be clear that if she fails to comply, he will see her in court to enforce the order, & he needs to follow through. He needs to be clear that regardless of what happens with the rest of the summer as far as visitation, he will not be giving her extra money to alleviate her issues. She wants to have her cake & eat it too. Don't we all???