Reasonable time for skid drop off on Sunday evening?
DH and I are going to Texas to visit the skids for Easter weekend. They are out of school Friday through Sunday. We are flying in Thursday afternoon and picking the skids up around 6:30pm. DH was planning on dropping them off around 7pm Sunday evening. Their normal bedtime is 7:30pm.
BM has sent an email saying that he needs to drop them off no later than 3pm. She says the kids need to re-adjust to their normal routine so they will be relaxed and ready for starting school again the next day. She also said it is not his right to withhold them from her for the entire holiday.
What do you think? Is 7pm a reasonable time to drop them off?
I know if DH refuses to agree, she will (at least try to) withhold the girls for the weekend. So again, another big long fight and flexing of legal muscle before resolution can be obtained ..
*sigh*
What does the court order
What does the court order say?
It just says Dad gets the
It just says Dad gets the holiday weekend. When BM was local, DH would keep them all evening and take them directly to school on Monday morning. But because our flight leaves at 6am, we have to drop them off to BM Sunday night.
Ugh, I know some people
Ugh, I know some people complain about how detailed visitation schedules are, but it's exactly because of reasons like this.
I agree .. and it was never
I agree .. and it was never an issue until BM moved out of state.
Changes are coming .. just not soon enough!
I think DH will definitely
I think DH will definitely plan to take them to dinner. Realistically, he will probably end up dropping them off around 6:30.
There is no compromise with BM. Agreeing to anything later than 3pm will be unacceptable to her.
CO doesn't specify a time for
CO doesn't specify a time for drop off for any visitation.
Girls typically eat dinner at 5pm, so I don't think it's unreasonable for him to take them to dinner at 5pm and drop them off afterwards. That would likely put it closer to 6-6:30pm, depending on where we go in relation to their house.
Problem is, BM won't accept anything later than 3pm.
What will BM do if they don't
What will BM do if they don't show up until 6:30? There's not much she can do without CO. I'd just tell him to say "I understand but I flew all the way here to see them and I will be dropping them off after dinner around 630 which will give them plenty of time to adjust and wind-down. PERIOD".
^^^^THIS^^^^ and I would not
^^^^THIS^^^^ and I would not let BM know this until AFTER you've picked the girls up.
If DH doesn't agree to it
If DH doesn't agree to it BEFORE he picks them up Thursday evening, she will not let him get the skids.
Of course, he can show up with a custody agreement and "force" her to turn over the kids, but the police won't actually do that. They'll refer him to the court since it's a private matter, and he'll leave empty handed.
So he'll have a police report that he can bring home and file a violation on her for; but still no skids for Easter.
Yeah, that's pretty much what
Yeah, that's pretty much what will have to happen.
He'll have to lie to her now to get what he shouldn't really have to fight for in the first place.
Just don't agree to 3pm in
Just don't agree to 3pm in writing through email. Don't want to give her any ammo on a future court day.
Either ignore her question of time entirely (taste of her own medicine) or answer her in some non committal way "sounds like that might work" or "we can try to plan around that"
Then work it in once the kids are in your possession....see you Sunday night after dinner.
She's smart enough to
She's smart enough to question a non-committal response. We'll try it, but I don't expect it to fly.
She won't let him pick them
She won't let him pick them up on Thursday in the first place.
If we have the kids shower in
If we have the kids shower in the morning, or the evening before (which is likely since we'll be going to a theme park on Saturday); BM won't bathe them again before school on Monday.
They'd be clean and fed when we dropped them off. I think an hour is plenty of time for them to brush teeth and hair and get into PJs.
She says their bedtime is 7:30pm, but considering every time DH calls them at 7pm they are either bouncing off the walls or watching TV, and haven't showered or brushed their teeth yet, I seriously doubt that's when they actually get to sleep. But we can't prove it's not; and it's not really an argument worth pursuing.
I think an hour before
I think an hour before bedtime is reasonable. So I would say no later than 6:30 if 7:30 is their usual bedtime.
"You say she won't accept
"You say she won't accept anything past 3pm. Do you mean she will refuse visitation entirely?"
That's exactly right. This is the same woman who says she won't make her 5 and 6 year old kids choose between watching TV and talking to their father. If they would rather watch cartoons than talk to their dad who lives 1600 miles away, that's their decision.
She's not religious; at all. She has never mentioned church in all the years I've known DH.
I guess what irks me too is
I guess what irks me too is that I KNOW the skids don't actually go to bed at 7:30pm. When DH talked to them last night at 7:15pm, they were at the mall and bouncing off the walls with their mom.
Tell BM "Sure, 3pm is fine",
Tell BM "Sure, 3pm is fine", then do what you want. Since there is no specification in the CO, she has no recourse to complain about it.
This is what DH will likely
This is what DH will likely do. Agree casually and then shoot her a short email on Sunday saying plans have changed and they'll be back around 6:30.
It just sucks that he has to be sneaky to get a few extra hours with his kids who he doesn't see for extended periods of time.
Ignoring the agreed upon
Ignoring the agreed upon return time might hurt dad later.
EVERYTHING in DF's order has set times ~ summer pick up and drop off is 5:00pm June 28 -5:00pm July 28. Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years and Easter are 9am-2pm. EOWE 5:00pm Friday -4:00pm Sunday. If he's 30 minutes late for a pickup, BM has the right to cancel the visit. If he's 30 minutes late returning the girls, she has the right to cancel the next visit.
Yeah, that's what worries me
Yeah, that's what worries me the most.
There are a lot of clarifications to be added to their custody agreement in the next modification (coming very soon). We really didn't have any major issues with the agreement until BM moved out of state. Now it seems like every little interpretation she can manipulate to her favor, she does. No matter how far of a stretch it is ..
She won't accept it unless
She won't accept it unless it's in writing. They don't speak on the phone normally. It almost always ends in a screaming match until DH hangs up on her.
But I agree, he'll have to lie to her, or at least mislead her, to get this little bit of extra time.
This is just about her
This is just about her controlling everything. She moved to Texas for training. I'd get her direct CO involved. Seriously, she is a piece of work and the military should be enlightened as to her shining example of how not to work well with others, life in the military is not like it used to be....watch the news, they are being downsized just like the private sector.
Problem is she views this as
Problem is she views this as "harassment". DH's lawyer has also advised him against doing this. While it may work in the short term in the military world, we attend court in the civilian world, and those judges don't necessarily see things the same way.
If she withholds the kids altogether, we'll still show up there. Tickets and hotel are already bought and paid for. If she refuses to produce them, DH will likely call her CO and the base police.
Your situation just really
Your situation just really chaps my ass!! You are paying out of pocket to visit the Skids 1600 miles away from home because she chose training there. She should be bending over backwards for you all to visit the Skids, not putting up road blocks.
Not that I want her to withhold the Skids but if she does, a call to her CO and the base police should put her controlling butt in check. If she cannot deal with her personal life well, they will look at that for further duty stations, etc. SMDH
I totally understand the difference with civilian courts and as we always read on StepTalk.....DOCUMENT!
You and me both! We have
You and me both!
We have still no idea what will happen with the April weekend we're flying down there. She has given the skids a choice between attending a sleepover with her friend (who has no kids) or spending the weekend with their dad. Of course this sleepover has been talked up to high heaven (by BM, her mother, and the friend), and the skids are completely distraught over what to do.
Spring Break is just over a week away. She's flying here with the skids Friday night, keeping them with her to visit with her boyfriend, and then dropping them off to DH on Sunday evening.
It seriously feels like she is going out of her way to make any/every visitation difficult. I just can't wait for the custody modification to be filed and done. She should be getting orders soon (although I'm sure she already knows what they are, at least informally), so we can get this process started.
PAS at play! That weekend is
PAS at play! That weekend is their Dad's visitation, a sleepover should never have been offered up as a "choice".
Perhaps her orders could include a year long trip to Antarctica, she can't bring the kids with her. }:)
Oh don't even get me started!
Oh don't even get me started! I am PRAYING for the day she gets deployed or stationed out of the country. Skids HAVE to come to DH and there is nothing she can do to stop it.
I think she's on the shore duty portion of her ship/shore rotation now though, so chances of deployment are probably slim for the next few years
Yes, DH will try that. She's
Yes, DH will try that. She's smart enough to ask him to confirm the specific time though; she'll see right through any attempts at being vague.
So his response will be
So his response will be vague, and when she tries to press him to confirm a specific time, he will likely ignore.
I think replying with a vague, but reasonable answer is sufficient. No reason to go back and forth arguing specifics if they're not specified in the agreement.
I guess the only thing you
I guess the only thing you can do now is learn from this experience and make sure that every possible scenario is covered in the new custody agreement.
And maybe think up some kind of "default" visitation schedule for any situation that is not specifically covered.
It's a shame that some BMs make their ex's jump through so many hoops like this. Selfish.
The only real problem with
The only real problem with that is because BM lives so far away, specific times are hard to accomodate. Since we're looking at airfare and hotel costs for every visitation, we need some flexibility on the times.
The only flexibility we would ever get is dropping them off early .. the day we can't make it there on time (flight delays, etc), BM would GLADLY cancel any visitation scheduled for that week/weekend.
It's hard to make it specific when there's so many unknowns. I'm sure there's a way, but it will continue to be difficult as long as BM lives out of state.