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Just going to be honest....

Colorado Girl's picture

My husband is in a boundary deficient relationship with the borderline/bipolar mother to his three daughters. As he maintains focus on keeping her happy and healthy, his daughters thrive. BM thrives. I think he's satisfied with his level of involvement with soothing the mother of his children, I can't really tell. He tells the world that she is "great" now, but then will continuosly complain of her shortcomings. He's also conveyed that my discontent is the only thing that makes him unhappy.

I feel blue. I feel yellow. Together I seem to be green.

I don't stand up for what I believe isn't right. It's not worth it and no one is listening anyways. I also am seeing that it really is none of my business. I have very little to do with what is going on. I've come to realize that it has everything to do with a relationship and wounds that were long inflicted before me. I see that my husband feels like being that one person in her life that she can always count on and I can only assume that he's meeting his own needs by placating her. I'm not angry anymore by this fact. He's read me perfect. I'm as green as Yoda... just not as smart.

I just feel like the consolation prize and it is all my fault. I am the owner of my thoughts and the architect of my future. I just feel so lost, I don't even know where to begin.

My best friend keeps saying to keep working on my physical appearance (I've lost 10lbs. so far, 10 to go), and redirecting focus on my kids and my work because feeling beautiful, watching my kids flourish and being succesful at my job seem to be what make me happy. She has been there for me a million times over and I am so lucky to have her. She flew in today from NY and I am so relieved for her strong shoulder to cry on. My marriage is so out of sorts and she has been such a good friend loving me no matter how pathetic I've become. Focus on the good, Colorado Girl...

I can't change him. I think I finally am grasping real and true acceptance. I have to accept his need for his relationship with his ex-wife. I just have to get myself right first I think before I travel that road. I don't know if my ego can take any more. I know it's all my own insecurities, I just want my own hero too... to calm me back to good. Instead of finding it in my husband, I'll have to find it in myself. Just give me a little time.

Comments

tryingtofindpeace's picture

in having a husband if he isn't that for you.
That is his role, and he is your husband and you deserve to be treated as such.

Colorado Girl's picture

that very same question.

What's the point?

"For every ailment under the sun....There is a remedy, or there is none;
If there be one, try to find it; If there be none, never mind it." ~ W.W. Bartley

Sita Tara's picture

We are an incredible pair aren't we?

But I also think we were drawn into the situation somehow, some part of us is welcoming this lifestyle. We both had incredibly easy acts to follow, but then doesn't that sometimes have you scratching your head as to why the ones who stomp their feet and demand the attention they feel entitled to having ---

GET IT? Time and time again they do. And other people say things to us like, "Well you are stronger than that- you know you are so centered- it's a good thing it's you because you can take it--"

My sister, with the addict son, told me a while back she was so tired of her friends saying that to her. She wanted to yell- "NO I'M NOT! I'm just...."

And then it hit me.

Hubris. That most infamous of Greek flaws. I'm too proud. I want to be those things people are telling me. I want to be bigger than that crazy SD of mine or her mom. I want to be the "Sita" that everyone envisions me to be.

We are human.

Yes go out and find your happiness. I say it, you say it and we mean it when we say it and we know it's the right thing, the true thing, the ONLY thing we can really control...

But we also from time to time, need that friend to just fly in from NY and give us that shoulder. We need those who know our strengths, our weaknesses, our needs without us having to say it, to show up, offer us coffee, jello shots...

Without expecting us to carry the weight the people we love so generously place on our shoulders. The weight that we accept without question til it's pulling us down with the ship.
Indulge in your painful self awareness, cry like you just told me I could. It will feel better for us both again soon.

Hey- Our "cycles" of frustration are finally linking up!

"When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." ~Geoffrey F. Abert

Colorado Girl's picture

"You'll be fine."

This is my husband's reaction to...breaking my collarbone... custody dispute over oldest son...anything that comes my way. SuperCG will just take care of it. Including his neverchanging crap with his ex. I listen, I comfort, I handle. It's what I'm here for.

What about me?

My clarity about my situation is causing me such heartache, I can't stop the tears.

"For every ailment under the sun....There is a remedy, or there is none;
If there be one, try to find it; If there be none, never mind it." ~ W.W. Bartley

Sita Tara's picture

"My clarity about my situation is causing me such heartache, I can't stop the tears."

But don't you ever wonder how we let that happen? Did we somehow invite this in?

You know I had some really painful moments reading some things about co-dependency. I thought I was so much more enlightened after leaving my first marriage and putting myself first, after years of waiting for my ex to get it and support me, put me first or even treat me and my life aspirations as relevant and of equal importance to his own.

I felt I had finally broken the martyr women of my family curse that goes back further than I likely even know. Then....

I fell for a married man and waited for him to "get it"-- to live the truth rather than do what he thought would make everyone else in his life happy.

Then I thought I moved past that because I did finally choose a man who does value me, my life's dreams, who supports me and encourages me, who loves me for me, all of me and wouldn't want to change me for anything.

But sometimes I wonder if SD was my co-dependent shiny object too. She needed a mom, saved, understood, cared about....

She needed me.

She is lucky to have me, but perhaps another SM would have done better by her by not becoming so entangled in her web. I brought a lot of this on myself by my very nature of wanting to help. Look at all the BPD friends I have made, some of whom were as bad as SD and set their sites on me as their surrogate mom target.

I am a magnet.

I won't stop being one until I turn the magnetic charge around and project strength and independence on a level that repels ill people.

Ugh.

Sorry to wax poetic on you. But we are much in the same boat. Raft...that's what you said right? Float away sipping umbrella drinks...

*Sigh*

I'm hear for you. I understand. I know. I care. I think you're swell. That's the best I got today Smile

"When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." ~Geoffrey F. Abert

Colorado Girl's picture

I think I like my raft in all it's simplicity.

I will take all the blame. I enabled it all. Me, the strongest woman DH has ever met. I am the exact opposite of her, so any resemblance or BPD-like trait that I show is enraging to him. Because I am better than that, damn it.

Well...I am tired. I am sad. I feel empty. Unlike the BPD in my life, I will look within and fill my cup until it runneth over. I am not unfillable.

It's not likely that my husband will "get it" any time soon. I'm right here in front of him. I can't seem to turn his head no matter what pretty dress I put on. My confidant and friend who was just like him told me that he'll have to figure it out on his own. I either accept that with no expectations... or I move on.

I should have known better, I was blinded by a love for a man who just wasn't ready to be loved... or love me back. Sad

"For every ailment under the sun....There is a remedy, or there is none;
If there be one, try to find it; If there be none, never mind it." ~ W.W. Bartley

Harleygal's picture

I will be happy to make a pit stop and slap some reality back into your DH like I did mine! Sorry to sound like I'm joking but I'm not. Seriously, I would do it.

"OCD sucks"
Habit and routine have an unbelievable power to destroy.
--Henri de Lubac

The Principlist's picture

This post deeply touched me as I too deal with a bipolar BM. It IS so hard and my heart breaks for you because I would not be able to stay if that were my situation. My DH sets boundaries with BM and for the most part she leaves us be. She tries little things, but I guess my saving grace is that I KNOW that DH is on my side. He feels the same way as I do with her. We tried the "liberal" visitation and she TOTALLY abused it and us and the kids were a mess because they felt that anytime they didn't like what we said they could just call BM and she would save the day. It was many years of turmoil as BM thrived on chaos. I guess in her black and white mind if the kids needed her they didn't need us. She couldn't see that they only did this as a manipulation tactic when they couldn't run the roost and no other time. Now that we have re-implemented the court ordered EOW visitation my house is A LOT calmer. Everyone kinda knows their place and their role. BM is more than welcome to be a part of the kids lives, but she is not allowed to run all over DH and I to do so. She has to respect our boundaries and I shouldn't have to tell you that is the hardest part. She doesn't feel that rules apply to her so she is constantly testing the water BUT she just operates better with the boundaries and our enforcing them. It's almost as if we deal with 3 kids in this situation. The even sadder thing is that the kids are much more developed in their rational thinking than their 42 year old mom.

Hugs to you my friend. I am glad that you are working toward finding a way for you to cope in this situation. Sometimes the easy part is recognizing that we can't change others and the difficult thing is changing ourselves to adapt to those situation. I pray it gets better for you my Dear.

Anyone can take the easy way out and blame others. BUT it takes a a person of character to take a look at one's self and actions and own responsibility for their part. ~ ME ~ }:-P

Colorado Girl's picture

I can't MAKE anyone do anything. I can't demand boundaries for anyone but myself. Otherwise there will be disaster.

My husband has chosen his path. I'm just not sure if I'm willing to follow anymore. I love him with all that I am. I just can't see myself in a future without the circumstances changing.

"For every ailment under the sun....There is a remedy, or there is none;
If there be one, try to find it; If there be none, never mind it." ~ W.W. Bartley

Sia's picture

I dont have much energy right now for a proper response, just know I am thinking of you and can offer BIG HUGS! Love ya!

Colorado Girl's picture

I love you too.

"For every ailment under the sun....There is a remedy, or there is none;
If there be one, try to find it; If there be none, never mind it." ~ W.W. Bartley

Alexis G.'s picture

I don't know what type of person you are (introvert, extrovert, thinking, feeling, etc.) but being the stepmom in a 'blended' family can blur your sense of self. There have been times when I've lost sight of who I was. I felt so hopeless, lonely, and trapped that I thought mentally checking out was my only escape. But I was wrong. It only made things worse. My past relationships with men (including my father) contributed to my warped thinking and pity parties. I forgot that I had control and the upper hand...not BM. Checking out was merely a defense mechanism I learned to employ during emotionally taxing times in my life. Although more difficult, facing the problem head on and getting my head out of the sand was the only way to take control of MY life and my marriage.

Yes, lose weight, get healthy, and focus on your kids. But don't allow DH's (and his borderline disrespectful) relationship with BM neglect and/or rob you of your emotional needs. YOU are DH's wife now and YOU should be his primary responsibility- physically, emotionally, and mentally. Don't abdicate your right to a fulfilling marriage b/c DH doesn't seem to get it. Have you two tried counseling? It appears that DH is operating out of guilt or some other unresolved feelings with regards to his ex-wife. It may be worth exploring further...

Believe me, I don't have all the answers. However, I totally understand where you are coming from. DH and I have good days and bad days but in the end, WE are together. Not he and BM.

I, too, am sending big hugs and hope things turn around soon for you and your family.

Colorado Girl's picture

You are not the first person to suggest counseling. If I threatened enough, he would agree to go.

I just don't feel the need to fight right now. I've retreated back inside myself and want to get right first. I want to bury my head in the sand and turn my back on all that is BM and DH. If only for a moment... to gain better perspective.

I was driving last night in a snow/rain storm... The rain cleared and the sun peeked thru the clouds on a little spot on the mountain. It was gorgeous. I felt a whole sense of joy from that. I just smiled. That beauty that came from the rainstorm inspired my soul to want to get better.

I'm going to get thru this. I will be happy either way and no matter what. I'm just ready to get back to me.

"For every ailment under the sun....There is a remedy, or there is none;
If there be one, try to find it; If there be none, never mind it." ~ W.W. Bartley

FallingfromGrace's picture

I dont have the answers, but I know I feel the same way as you do. I think about how I just need to focus on my OWN children, my health, and career. The areas I CAN control. Everytime, I try to be involved I get hurt. My BM has some strange hold on the man that is supposed to be my caretaker. I dont have a "rock" or a shoulder to cry on.

It does get to the point where I start to wonder, why should I be married if I am not getting anything (support, love, confidence) from DH. If I am going to be lonely I may as well BE alone.

Prayers and hugs to you...and all of us stepmoms trying to find our way...

"God grant me the serenity accept the things I cannot change; the strength to change the things I can; and the wisdom to know the difference."

Colorado Girl's picture

of our own happiness.

It's where people like myself get into trouble. I put more time and energy in others and am so willing to play second fiddle. I do it thinking that one day, I will be valued like I think I should be. Instead I show people it's okay to treat me less than what I deserve.

I made sure my husband knew his worth at the expense of my own and it has gotten me nowhere and him just as far. Sure he is out of his marriage, but is just as enmeshed as while they were married. It has nothing to do with the love he has for me. He loves me. He just thinks his wants and desires are more important than mine. I enabled that.

"For every ailment under the sun....There is a remedy, or there is none;
If there be one, try to find it; If there be none, never mind it." ~ W.W. Bartley

lil_teapot's picture

I know how hard it is when they have contact with the bm. The bottom line is that neither of you are going to change that much. Even if you reframe it in a way so you know that H loves you and just needs the bm relationship to be smooth for the sake of the kids, it may not be ok with you ever. I'm in a similar situation. I don't ever think it's going to be ok if fh gets along overly well with bm. I'm trying to reframe it myself and think he's doing it for the kids and that he loves me, and loves his kids--not her. But the sheer fact that the bm thrives to cause pain makes it difficult.
The only saving grace is that for all the problems I have with him, fh will eventually understand why I'm upset and put up firmer boundaries w/the bm. FH knows I'll leave if this stuff continues.
I hope that your H will get how much you are hurting and try to make it better by validating your feelings and working on a compromise that will make you both happy.
Hugs to you. LT

Colorado Girl's picture

is so entirely different than getting along overly well with an ex-spouse. She is a complex creature whose every emotion is heightened at any given moment. She can dazzle, demand, and demean all in a breath. I can walk away from a conversation with her feeling so

My husband has found his peace and his comfort zone.

I've abandoned hope and will not place my happiness in his hands anymore. I will get myself back to good and then will make a decision of whether or not I will stay. I won't say a word to him anymore about his jaded priorities. I'm just done trying and am too broken. I need to start fixing me.

"For every ailment under the sun....There is a remedy, or there is none;
If there be one, try to find it; If there be none, never mind it." ~ W.W. Bartley

LizzieA's picture

I am sorry to hear this about your DH still carrying that responsibility. Will he listen to input on how to best handle her, like Princ mentioned? Your situation is emotional blackmail at its worst. He might as well still be married to her.
Boy there is a lot of mental illness out there. Wonder what is causing it? I myself have had to deal with a series of narcissistic bullies.

sweetthing's picture

of you yesterday & wondering how you were. Self care, self care, self care! That is what my therapist told me over & over. When we are not getting what we need from our spouses we need to make sure we are getting it from ourselves. BP sucks and I am so sorry you have to deal with this woman & that Dh doesn't get it. I know he loves you very much. Keep doing the things that make you feel good & make you happy.

Colorado Girl's picture

Thank you for that. Much love and hugs to you old friend...

"For every ailment under the sun....There is a remedy, or there is none;
If there be one, try to find it; If there be none, never mind it." ~ W.W. Bartley

belleboudeuse's picture

"I just want my own hero too.."

This made me tear up. Of COURSE you deserve your hero -- you deserve better than to have the man you are married to pour his energy into his relationship with another woman. It's an emotional affair, in a sense -- just not the kind people usually talk about.

When I was engaged to my DH, we had a conversation where I told him that I needed to always know I was 50% of the relationship. For me, just because there are more people on his side of the "baggage" area, doesn't mean that his needs and the needs of the people in his past get more than 50% of the energy in our household. I told him that if I was going to be less than that 50%, then I couldn't be with him, because I couldn't commit myself to a future where I was of secondary importance in my marriage.

Is your H the kind of guy who would respond to your sitting down with him and telling him all this? Telling him, "I just want my own hero too.."? Because you deserve to have a husband, and right how he's acting like someone else's. I hope you can do something about establishing the boundaries here.

Thinking of you,

BB

- You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. (2Bloved)

belleboudeuse's picture

That's maddening...

But it makes me think that maybe this is linked to the thing about men needing to feel strong and admired. If you're too strong and independent yourself, maybe some guys hold on to a creepy relationship with the ex because she makes him feel strong and capable, and we don't...?

BB

- You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. (2Bloved)

Brooklynne's picture

I needed him to come help me change my tire, and BF wouldn't come and help me. He wasn't even at work; he was sitting at home in his RECLINER EATING A SANDWICH. Instead, he tried to get a friend of his to come and help me. I said no problem; there's a 67 year old man with a heart condition already outside helping me out. Thanks anyway! Did he feel bad about that? Not really! He said I needed to figure it out on my own!

sarahbernheart's picture

Well...sometimes strong, sane women don't get heroes if there's a needy ex or skid involved. These men act like they have to help the crazy ex's, and worry about THEM, but when their wife/girlfriend feels the same way we're told that we can handle things ourselves because we're so strong and capable.

It's not that we don't need/deserve a hero...we just get short-changed sometimes, which is not fair.

I can so relate to this, you should start a post about it.

DISbelief's picture

You know how much I care for you~ we've been through a lot together via the WEB over the past few years... and I hate to see (read) you like this.

Sounds to me like you have finally come to terms with the reality of it all. I understand what you are feeling as BM is in a constant downward spiral and rather than doing something to make sure SS is not on that ride with her, FH just caters to it, making sure she is "ok". Well, I for one don't care if she is "ok"... I care that SS is okay, and that is the extent of my compassion for the matter.

It is hard to turn and walk away from someone you love, and a relationship that you have fought so hard to make work. I know that. But at what cost are you willing to "save" this relationship? YOUR health, YOUR sanity, YOUR well being and mental sability? Sometime I feel as though, if I continue on the path I am on, I will be just as CRAZY as BM is, and I know you have felt the same.

So where do we go from here? That is the question. Walk away? Not that easy, is it?

I wish I had some wonderful words of wisdom for you CG~ A magical phrase that will make it all better... I don't. If any consolation... I am right here with ya~ asking myself the same DAMN question.

Hand in there CG, you know I luv ya~

DISbelief~

~You have to BE crazy to UNDERSTAND crazy!~ ; )

Colorado Girl's picture

Wise old souls teell us to stop a moment and look at the flowers. So that is what I will do.

There is such a fine line between human compassion and enmeshment. Our husband's will make her problems their own as we sit on the sideline wondering why? For the best interest of these children who are destined to be as disordered as their mother? (Like Sita's SD)

Where is that line drawn in the sand when someone keeps stepping back and forth over the line until there is no longer a line anymore...just sand?

"For every ailment under the sun....There is a remedy, or there is none;
If there be one, try to find it; If there be none, never mind it." ~ W.W. Bartley

DISbelief's picture

Did you just call me old. You know how many gray hairs I plucked out this morning as I cling to my ever so deminishing YOUTH! ;)LOL...
BTW... lose another 10 pounds :? I don't know... I think you look great now. Tell me you are doing it for YOU and no one else and I will leave it alone, unless the last pics I saw are outdated, I don't think you have anything to worry about there.

I think VEGAS is a half way point between you and I...we should have a girls weekend!

DISbelief~

~You have to BE crazy to UNDERSTAND crazy!~ ; )

sarahbernheart's picture

CG, mere words will not be enough to help you thru this, the pain I feel in your post hurts me to the core.
this is a road you travel by yourself, there are dangerous curves and turns, but there are also little road stops on the way that offer you some solace (us) and maybe as you continue your journey the road is not so scary.
hugs super big ones
"Better a diamond with a flaw than a pebble without one."

Colorado Girl's picture

you always have kind words.

"For every ailment under the sun....There is a remedy, or there is none;
If there be one, try to find it; If there be none, never mind it." ~ W.W. Bartley

belleboudeuse's picture

It's true that one of the things I really loved about DH was that he was so nurturing, caring, seemingly in touch with his feminine side and not a macho pig. And of course, the "crazy, domineering ex" stories reinforce that idea that he's just a nice guy who got trapped by a b****. But as you say, there's an ugly underbelly to that...

BB

- You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. (2Bloved)

Hanny's picture

And that is what it all boils down too I'm afraid. These men do what they do, they treat the ex like they do because the BM holds the cards. And the kids ARE the cards. And our men are afraid of losing them, losing contact with them, losing their respect. My BF does the same thing, they all do. They have to walk on eggs becasue the kids live with or mostly live with these BM's. And let's face it the custodial parent does hold the cards. They are with the skids most of the time and they have more influence over them. Yes, it's WRONG! with a capital W, but the BM's do it. I would love for my BF to be on a site like this that is for divorced dads so they could compare stories. Maybe they would hear from a few men who have had the balls to stand up to the BM's, and found out that they didn't lose anything in the process when it came to their children. Or hear that they don't have to guilt parent in order to keep their kids happy. Or hear what guilt parenting really does to the kid in the long run.

I get depressed just writing about it.

Tara12's picture

I know right now you feel tired and beaten down but do you love your husband enough to fight for your relationship? The reason I ask is because I had to make that choice. You and I though have very different personalities though and I thrive on standing up for myself - not that I am saying you haven't but I am very very forceful. I will never sit back and hold in my thoughts. EVER. I was beaten down and broken over his relationship with the BM and the hold that she had over my FH all the while using their daughter as a pawn.

I don't know if BM is BP or just plain crazy. Even though she and my FH had been broken up for over 16 years they still had this emotional emeshment because my FH had allowed her to creep in to every aspect of his life and she was completely co-dependent on him. She never had another b/f, doesn't really have any friends and her whole life is about SD and talking to my FH. As long as FH talked to her whenever she wanted then even though he hated it things were peaceful in his life. As soon as a woman came in to the picture she turned evil and you know what he ALWAYS choose the BM (because of her threats) over any other woman.

I enter in to the picture and saw that this was not NORMAL. So even though FH loathes BM and even speaking to her my counselor explained it like this. It has become a pattern. Bm has become co-dependent on you and even though you are not in a relationship BM has this emotional tie to you. You are her lifeline and you are doing her no favors by catering to her. FH you will not be able to move on with your life unless you set boundaries with this woman. EMA comes first in your life BM should not even be anywhere in YOUR relationship. You need to get her to move on with her life and you can not be her emotional support line. Stick to the issues with the children and move on with your life.

My FH didn't know how to do this because it had gone on for 16 years and getting rid of BM was a big change and people don't like change even if he knew it was the right thing to do and would give him peace in his life.

You need to nurture yourself now to make yourself strong so you can talk to your H and get in to counseling ASAP. You do not want to waste your life with a man that puts BM in the middle of your relationship. Do not waste your life with a man who puts someone else above you whether they are bi-polar or whatever. That is HER problem BM is NOT HIS RESPONSIBILITY - he can be a good dad without having to kiss the BMs ass - they both need to move on. If my FH can get rid of BM after 16 years your H can too.

Right now you are down and don't think things can change but I guarantee if you work for what you want you will get it!!! Whether that be a change in a relationship with your H or your freedom. Take care and I will be thinking about you - this hit so close to home for me.

Sita Tara's picture

"I know right now you feel tired and beaten down but do you love your husband enough to fight for your relationship?"

That's just it. I think somewhere along the line CG, me, Vic, so many of us, and you too I'm sure Ema, are so tired of having to fight for what should come a little easier. I'm not saying that marriage doesn't take a ton of effort or come naturally. I'm saying that tension and stress shouldn't surround us at home. Home should be our sanctuary, our soft place to fall.

And when I met DH I found the man who is my soft place. Naively I thought that BM would come around because my sons' SM and I had. DH's and BM's divorce was actually, if not amicable, then at least quite business like. I thought it was just too new and they hadn't peeled off the relationship enough to get along yet. I had never heard of BPD or at least had no idea what the term meant. Like so many therapists I've talked to along the way, DH and BM were behaving like most people do when they are angry and bitter over a failed marriage. The thing was...that wasn't what was happening.

BPD people just cannot function without dysfunction. So the choice isn't whether we can fight for our marriages or our men...

It's do we want to, are we able to, can we find a way to...

thrive in the midst of total dysfunction.

Because the dysfunction part isn't going anywhere, and with the kids, girls in particular, BM's illness will have far reaching potential- way past them all being 18 and on their own.

Can we put ourselves and our other children through that? Can our health - physical and mental take it?

CG....

I think like you I am a lover not a fighter. If we were fighters we may be able to thrive. But because we aren't we keep feeling the "flight" instinct rather that the fight one.

Many hugs to you again today. I so hope your day is going better. I'm just prayin' for my SD to start so we have a little giddy this week. Cuz the PMS/PMDD beastie who's possessing her the past 2 WEEKS is getting a bit hard to take!

"When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." ~Geoffrey F. Abert

Tara12's picture

If I sat around and waited for my FH to step up to the plate I would be on my own by now. I'm sure as you know some people are just not capable of doing the "right" thing or being able to step up to the plate. This is one thing I learned in couples counseling is that when one partner doesn't get it or is not capable sometimes YOU the other partner have to do it for them instead of complaining that nothing ever changes - if I wanted to stay where I was in my relationship then I would have to take the lead and get it done. I know it is bunch of crap because you guys are dealing with others that have disorders but you know what? Yes you guys are fighters!!! I read your posts all the time and if you weren't fighting you still wouldn't be there! Smile Everyone has to decide on their own what is their breaking point and when it is time to move on. I have a son that has ADD, borderline BPD and Tourettes's and you he doesn't do anywhere near the kind of damage that a lot of these kids I read about on here or adults for that matter. Consistency and rules worked for him and he is 22 now. I could write a book about the things I went through with him but I NEVER GAVE IN. I think so many kids, adults whatever are diagnosed with one thing or another. When I was growing up they just called it hyperactive. Smile