Hello I'm back with a few questions for you all.
For those of you who know my story, I finally agreed to go back to counseling. So this time I went to the skids counselor with my husband. I thought before hand that I would keep my mouth shut and see what he had to say. I was pretty convinced from the things I had heard about the sessions with BM, DH and skids that this counselor may not be seeing things as they really are.
But, I kept my mouth shut for about 2 seconds and then it just kept on flapping. I couldn't stop. His head kept falling back, mouth open, shaking, he couldn't believe his ears. He (the counselor) began telling us things BM has said about us. Things like, when you meet DH, you will think he is really nice and people like him but he is really a fraud. He's abusive, he can't keep a job, he abandoned us etc.
The counselor told us, that in his experience, really bad people who meet the criteria that she stated, don't continue to come in to counseling to work it out. They don't bring their spouses and after awhile the truth always comes out. I think he saw that she is the real fraud. The abusive parent who has created this problem.
We have been to several counselors. Every time the counselor says anything to BM that would suggest she need look at herself, she stops going. This is the counselor that she chose and has been seeing with the kids for several months now. We warned him not to say too much to him if he wanted to continue counseling with all of us. He told us, to get an attorney, get an ad litem for the children, psychological analysis and slam her. Whoa!!!!!!! This is her chosen counselor.
Okay first. We needed to make a small modification a few years ago and it took 3 years to finish. How long would this take? The kids pretty much think we are the devil incarnate and at 11 and 13, taking their mom to court could pretty much nail the coffin in. The counselor thought that maybe the boy (11) could still be saved. This would cost thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars.
1. Is it worth it?
2. Can we, if we won, "save" this boy?
3. Are we asking for a divorce from each other if we embark on this?
4. What other factors could affect our lives if we move forward in this direction?
What do you think?
Thanks.
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Okay.... this is my question...
If the counselor seriously now believes that all of this is BM's doing, and that the only child that can be saved is the 11yr boy, why is he deflecting his job by persuading you to go to court?
This doesn't make sense. If he now understands the scope of the matter, then why doesn't he start to work to adjust it? It really sounds to me like he is trying to pass the buck here, and get BM, this whole fiasco out of his office. Why is he afraid to address this, that's what I would be asking. Can he not arrange one on one sessions with the kids, and focus on each child one by one? Yes, BM probably would try desperately to flip the situation again, and yes, she is in denial, but there are ways, tactics, etc to 'combat' that via the individuals around her... hence the teaching the children. Show them examples, and displaying to them, the healthy ways and means to respond, etc.
I don't think court would be your answer, not yet. You would have to have a solid front with the kids help, and that means you need to repair those relationships between the kids, and doing that would be a more logical, economical recourse to this situation. I would 'spend the money' on aggressive counseling measures, honestly. You need to take it in steps... like a 12 step program, like peeling an onion and breaking down misconceptions and manipulation assumptions. Correcting those relationships would be my first priority, than you can consider court.
Man has the intelligence to change his life,
Sometimes, he just fails to use it...
devotion runs deep
I went through a very similar situation....and on the record we "won"...but in reality we got our a**es handed right back at us. My skids were the same age when we did it, and to answer your questions, baised on my experiance......NO, it is not worth it..does more harm than good. NO, you can't "save" the boy....tried to save my SS, but kids, especially boys are very devoted to their mom's , even when they are hurting them. DIVORCE??, I's always a possibility in situations like this. If you move forward with this, be prepared for the following........you will be left deep in debt....it is a long process...you will be lied to....BM will surprise you with just how low she can go, and your skids will be impossible to deal with. I'm sorry to be so negative, but I just returned from the seventh circle of hell with this one. Chel
Unless there is evidence of
Unless there is evidence of physical abuse and/or the kids want to flee their mother and come live with you, then you're out of luck. Going to court isn't going to help you. It will be terribly costly, all around.
There just doesn't seem to be any balance here. It seems like your whole life with your husband is wrapped around restoring his relationship with his children. What about you? What about your daughter?
My DH went through this for 3 years when he was single. He just continued to spend time with his kids as per the decree. He didn't talk about their mother. He ignored their rudeness and weirdness. He just did fun stuff with them and let them detox from life with psycho.
I met the skids about 2 years into the process, and by then, they were more receptive to DH having a life of his own. They'd had a chance to work on their relationship with each other before I arrived on the scene. That had to be the foundation.
In the end, when they turned 13, two of his children fled their mom and asked for his help in legally removing her from their lives. And he did. It was surprisingly easy from that point of view. (Of course, I'm mom to two teen skids now -- that is a whole other story.)
I'm not sure what all this push-push-push to force you all together into one big toxic family makes much sense. It sounds like you need more space from his children, if not a protracted break. If there can't be real peace and harmony, then seek detente.
How often is he seeing them? Every week? Every other week? I think that you should just STOP interacting with the skids. Let your husband work on his relationship with them without bringing you or your daughter into it. If you can't leave the house while they are there, then make yourself scarce. Talk about this plan with your husband -- I hope he understands that you all can't move on with the present until he isolates the demons from his past.
This just sounds nuts to me. And you can't win at this point because you have BM and the skids fighting you all the time. So stop trying so hard. Divide things up into different universes for a while until EVERYONE is ready to come to the peace talks. And really WANT peace. Skip the battle, go underground, and come out when the coast is clearer, if not totally clear.
"A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing." George Bernard Shaw
battle
"Skip the battle, go underground, and come out when the coast is clearer, if not totally clear."
Since the kds think the 2 or you are "the devil incarnate" why put yourself through this?
d
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hey all, thank you for your support and feedback
Everyone had such great responses so I would like to answer some of the questions that may have been left unsaid in my quick post.
Yes the counselor did suggest meeting with BM and her new bf since they have been together for over a year. He also suggested that we ignore SD emails that state not to be in touch. He thought all of our family should start emailing saying that they are looking forward to seeing them over the holiday. He also said we should fight fire with fire. I'm not sure how to interpret that. My husband says that if you try to defend yourself you look guilty. The counselor said maybe it is time for them to hear the other side, tactfully.
As far as counseling goes, we have been doing this for years. I don't know how to overcome it. As far as my relationship and things at home with our daughter. Truthfully they couldn't be better. I feel pretty guilty about that knowing that there is a white elephant in the room. Even so, there is a lot of peace without the drama. Many people have suggested that my DH should just let it go, teach them they can't behave this way or they can't come over. Well I think we all got just what we wanted except for my DH and ultimately the kids.
I don't know if there is a deep sense of relief on my DH's part not having the problems, chaos, and an angry wife or if he is deeply suffering for the loss of his kids. I don't want to be a callous bitch and not honor his heart. I told the counselor I was done. I thought the issue was between DH, BM and the kids. I've been out of it for awhile really and haven't seen them since early August.
But with that said, I tend to agree. Why bring more trouble with another lawsuit into our lives. Is this a matter of cutting the rope and letting them float wherever they want to go? In the book Divorce Poison, Persephone has suggested many times, it talks about saying goodbye and letting it go.
I guess, I felt vindicated and a bit relieved that finally someone, impartial, a professional, acknoledged that indeed we were getting the short end of the stick, and that we were not the evil, abusers, defined by BM. We talked to the counselor about being impartial and he stated that he was indeed in that role. We felt a lot of support however, and the message was that, if we were up to it and we wanted to, we had a case to try.
The thing is, if this were my child, estranged from me, I would feel murderous thoughts and would be a crazy lunatic fighting for my child. I wouldn't be able to bare it. Maybe that is a difference between men and women. I have the tendency to support any inclination leaning that way from my DH. But hey, they aren't my kids. Maybe the advice is right. This isn't my battle or my kids. Maybe I should wait for him to ask me if I'm willing to put our life on hold so that he might stand a chance to have his kids in his life. Right now he has our daughter and she thinks he walks on water.
I know many of you have been in similar shoes and have gone through the jungle, later to see things with 20/20 vision and I welcome the insight and advice.
Thanks
Dig deep Kathleen
And truly look into your heart at what is best for the kids. I did that, we went through a 10 month long ordeal of pre-trial after pre-trial... and we ended up winning (as in she conceded rather than succumb to a psych eval.) I will tell you that having that therapist in your corner from the get go will do wonders for your cause. My other best tip is to release attachment to the outcome to a higher power that whatever is the best for Sks will happen. It did for us. I know it in my heart. Her mom is poisonous and the more SD can be around us the better chance she has at perserverance in her own life. Now let me say that SD doesn't see it that way. She is forever reminded by her now strictly Disney mom that she blew it b/c we don't allow Sd her every whim in life. And we are seeing the ramifications of her realization of what she did.
That being said...was it worth it to me? Would it be EASIER for us if we had her disruptive angry unhealthy behavior in our house a few weekends a month instead of most of the time? Hmmmm.... easier yes...but the value to me knowing I did what was in her best interest? Priceless. Even if we would have lost in court.
Follow your heart Kathleen. You are a very deep thinker and you will know the right thing to do.
Peace, love, and red wine