OT - Employer Furlough?.....Pissy Rant
A few weeks ago, I saw a chat where a few of my colleagues saying they were called into a meeting where it was explained to them they'd be let go in 1-2 weeks due to business needs. Other colleagues including myself didn't get that meeting so I thought I'd be good.
Until I log in and look at my calendar and see nothing on there.
So I can only assume I met the same fate as the others but at least they had the luxury of a couple weeks advance notice.
I'm not bothered ironically bc this company and the enforcers they hire as 'leadership' are so insensitive/disorganized and the expectations were so ridiculously unattainable that it stressed me out the the point I filed request for FMLA
I'm not sure if I was put on the furlough list bc I filed for FMLA or what but I'm not happy about the lack of notice.
Who tf doesn't tell someone they're being laid off and just lets them waltz into work like it's another basic Monday.
I'm not saying I would ever do this bc I'm not that petty but I see why people be on the 5 oclock news retaliating in the worst way against these companies.
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I would try to remain calm
I would try to remain calm and not assume that you are being laid off. If you see things on your calendar missing.. then you can directly ask your manager why your calendar appears to have been cleared. It may be that they aren't laying you off at all..
I will say that sometimes stuff like that happens in the business world..they need to reduce head counts.. and sometimes they find they had to reduce more than they originally thought.
RE the FMLA request.. was it recent and was it approved? maybe this is because you will be getting that time off.
They cannot fire you BECAUSE you applied for FMLA. They can fire you for any other legal reason.. and it could include that they do not need your position any longer.. or that you have not been performing to their standard. Filing FMLA won't give you any protection from being fired for cause necessarily.
I can def sympathise with you if this comes more out of the blue.. because I had something similar happen when I worked in public accounting for a big 6 firm. We knew they were going through some reductions and everyone who was laid off was told on Monday.. whew.. I was safe right??? Uhmm well... got called into a partner's office on Wednesday.. and told they had to make further cuts..and I was one of them. I honestly was not totally surprised to be on the list.. the company lost the major client I was assigned to and I was several years older than the other first years... because I came in after getting my masters not undergrad. I think they maybe thought I was not as likely to stick around.
I would definitely polish up your resume.. but I would ask your manager why the calendar is clear.. and if you truly think this place is causing so much stress that you needed to file that claim.. it's probably not the best place for you anyway..
THANK YOU ESMOD!!!
THANK YOU ESMOD!!!
I have a person working on my resume as we speak
I do know IF they did let me
I do know IF they did let me go then they better give me my PTO cause if they play with my money I will sue them.
PTO is an accrued liability.
PTO is an accrued liability. I do not think that they have any choice legally but to pay you for your PTO. Sick time is different and likely won't be paid.
I prefer the TOWP model to the PTO and Sick Time model. TOWP they owe you in the event that you resign or they release you.
As I understand it anyway. Laws not withstanding.
Depends by state
For example, Georgia does not require PTO be paid out.
OMG
That sounds like wage theft to me.
^EXACTLY!!!
^EXACTLY!!!
These companies know exactly what tf they're doing!
Not only did my obtuse manager pretend not to see my request for pto a month ago...then wrote me up twice for using it....
I am getting the feeling this company purposely tries to keep their employees working every second of these 8 hrs but also will pepper HR files if employees don't use time of in the highly regimented way they want.
So when people are too scared to use their PTO for fear of write ups they don't take any time off only to get screwed again by living in a state that doesn't require paying out PTO upon termination/layoff
When I was in the
When I was in the semiconductor industry I made it through 9 RIF actions over 8 years and was impacted in the 10th. I was a Sr. Manager at the time.
The first step was an all Sr. leaders meeting to inform that we were to rank and rate all of our employees.
Next was a meeting to review everyone in each organization that was "elegible for reduction". That meeting, all 30 of my team were on the list. So, I went back to my office, packed and took all of my work product, etc... to my vehicle. It all went home that night. I also backed up all of my electronic work product, etc... to an external hard drive. I still use it to this day. 22yrs later. In fact, I am mining it now as I build the structure and implementation plans for building a brand new organization for my starting Wk 3 new employer.
The next meeting was to provide all of the RIF packages to the manager and to train the managers in the process. I received a package for each of my entire team.
At COB on the following Tuesday an all hands meeting was held announcing that RIFs would occur the following day. They waited till market close to avoid impacting stock prices. The next day, I met 1:1 with all 30 of my team and provided them their RIF package. It was actually a fair package. Everyone was carried on payroll and with full benefits for 8wks. Severance was paid on top of the 8wks based on level and years with the company and included insurance. The company emptied one of their smaller office bldgs and set up an employement center staffed by an outplacement service provider. Access to that was for the duration of severance each person was eligible for.
By mid day the company announced the all clear at an all hands announcing that everyone impacted had been notified and processed out and everyone had the rest of the day off. Which was baffling to me. I had no organization. After that meeting, my desk extension rang. My boss wanted to see me in the conference room. I walked in, handed him my badge and my pager, signed the papers on the table and turned to leave when he stopped me. He had to go through the shpiel. I told him I had given it 30 times that morning, He insisted. So I sat for about 5mins with him in tears going through it. Then I had to go to the outprocessing room. I was in there with about 50 other Sr. leaders. I was in good company. Most of us had received recent promotions or top reviews.
After his tearful reading of the script my boss insisted that my wife and I attend the dinner we had been invited to at his house for the upcoming Friday. We went. Talk about being the turds in the punchbowl. I never even considered not going to the party. When we knocked on the door and walked into the house it was like a pause in a twilight zone episode. We stayed for a few hours. Almost everyone engaged us in conversation. We got a number of comments about how classy it was for us to attend, etc.... The others my boss released did not attend. So yes, I went Rags on the situation. We went, DW was radiant, I was my usual self. I still get a rare but occassional comment from former colleagues upon occassion about that party and how our arrival stopped the music.
My entire severance counting the 8wks on payroll was 42 weeks. That included the company carrying full benefits for me and my family for that entire 42wks. As a Sr. Manager with 8yrs with the company I had solid severance. Lower grade codes and people with less tenure still ended up with on average of 15wks of severence.
I have had to release far more people than I want to remember due to business and industry down turns, mergers and acquisitions, etc. It sucks almost as bad to release someone as it does to get released. For met, it is harder to RIF someone than to get RIFd.
I have never fired anyone. Those who get fired fire themselves. For those, I just do the paperwork. But I have had to RIF far too many great people due to no fault of their own. That sucks.
I hope your outcome is the one you want.
Take care of you.
I think that part of this is
I think that part of this is a good lesson from you Rags.
Lilly.. since you see that there is a strong possibiility that you won't be there before too long. You should take any steps NOW to ensure that you have gotten any information you will need off your company devices. I'm not necessarily talking about taking "their" intellectual property.. but if you have any personal stuff.. pictures etc... get it off your company device. Start takinghome anything you will need now.
Thanks for sharing Rags
Thanks for sharing Rags
Yeah I'm hoping to at least be able to keep some or ALL of my benefits for as long as possible and it would be nice to have severance pay.
I also want to say I loathe
Going to workout, review my resume and cover letter, and research other employers, and focus on my other income streams
Thanks you all for excellent feedback.
Sorry
It really sucks
Yes it does.
Yes it does.
Sociopathic manager still didn't answer any of my questions about my employment status and just pretended not to have a clue.
Whatever.
If there is a risk you will
If there is a risk you will lose pto.. I would put in to take it now..
Oh I definitely am. That was
Oh I definitely am. That was the first thing on my mind last night and this morning ....This incompetent broad best approve my PTO or else!
Just because the CEO (IMO) is making sh*tty decisions that led to the company losing money/downsizing does not mean everyone else should lose money due to their maleficence.
CEO's will forever protect their own wallets and the shareholders...so they better run me my money as well
FML (insert head slap here)
FML (insert head slap here)
I think I'm in a state that does not require pto payout
I'm glad I risked that write up to take at least half of it. But I'm a little disgruntled I might have to forfeit the rest because this employer failing to provide adequate notice
Take it now. Notify, do not
Take it now. Notify, do not ask for permission.
I am fortunate, I have never been at a company that was overly Nazi in their PTO/TOWP/Vacation policies. I pretty much have always taken it when i wanna take it though I also make damned sure that I notify far in advance for anything that I can apply that method on.
The shorter stuff, I just take it as necessary and notify as soon as I have the applicable dates in hand.
I have also always worked for employers that pay it out upon resignation, lay off, etc...
^agreed. I notified this
^agreed. I notified this manager two weeks in advance of my intent to use my pto and she ignored my email. Then wrote me up claiming I had unapproved absence and when I reminded her I notified her in email she pretended that she had multiple work emails and I probably sent it to the wrong email address.
But she expected me to instantly reply to all of her messages and emails
I have also always worked for
This may be one of my non negotiables in the future
After my Semiconductor
After my Semiconductor industry implosion RIF they called to offer me my job back. That was about 6mos after the RIF. The offer was the same but with a 15% bump because they wanted the role based in CA instead of TX.
I told them that the grade code and salary was inadequate. That I had a Master's that was not considered in their offer. They pointed out that they had paid for my Masters. I pointed out that I did not work for them and my salary had not changed upon completing that Masters. So they bumped the grade and the salary in their offer.
Then we started the tenure and relocation dance.
I informed them that I could not move to CA because DW was in grad school but that I would accept the offer if they argreed to a year of weekly travel home every weekend and then a relo package when DW finished grad school..
They did not balk at that.
What they did balk at was my stipulation that they provide an official letter stating that upon my new start date that they were obligated to reset my severence back to my original service period if they RIFd me in the future. In other words, they owed me severance for the 8yrs of service already completed plus any additional years of service accrued upon returning to the company. Cheap, easy. Give the letter and it costs them nothing unless they RIF me in the future.
They took the stance that I had already been paid severence for the 8 completed years of service and that they would not pay it again. No recognition at all when I pointed out that they wouldn't have to pay it at all if they did not RIF me again.
So, I countered with .... a grant of 6000 shares of stock with the first 2000 shares vesting on my first day of re-employment. Nope.
So I countered again with them paying me a $70,000 cash signing bonus.
Which all pretty much was the same thing.
Nope. The exec that called me about resurrecting my role and team then asked me to write them a letter declining the offer.
So, I pulled out the letter I received when they RIFd me and typed it close to verbatim changing a few words.
"I regret to inform you that your services as an employer are not required at this time. While the outstanding opportunity is appreciated, I will not be prevailing myself, blah, blah, blah ........"
Instead of "We regret to inform you that your services as a (company) employee are not longer required. While your outstanding contribution, blah, blah, blah.......
When I sent it to him he called me back laughing. "You, are a smart ass!" I agreed and told him since the company had no doubt paid a crap ton for the legal advice on executing their mass RIF including the notification letter, that I might as well get some use out of their money in my letter rejecting their offer.
I had given my entire team their RIF package. Then I got mine a few hours later. So, spitballing the refusal letter regarding their offer back at them with their words, was my last jab. I really was not bitter, but neither was I willing to give them all of the power if I returned to the company. I started working as an indepedent Catastrophe Insurance adjuster shortly after that. I started with a different tech company 6mos after declining the offer to return to my former employer.
I have no regrets though had I not been RIFd or had I gone back and stayed another 15+ years (no guarantee that would have happened), financially we would be in a very different place.
If, if, if.... I am not a what if guy for a reason.
Love how you negotiated with
Love how you negotiated with them so you'd be ensuring they'd compensate you accordingly. A lot of people just accept what is (even if unbeknownst to them it is to their detriment)
If you do not ask, it can't
If you do not ask, it can't happen.
I negotiated on my current position. Nothing strikingly successful, just stating a minimum number higher than their stipulated maximum salary. This got me more than they had authorized for the role. Not a ton more. But... $500/mo is $500/mo.
They met me halfway. Win, win.
I made sure not to go nuts on my salary demand. I gave a broad range to get them to the table. If I had stated only my top number, a number I have been at or close to for nearly 2 decades, I would have never received a call. With the benefits and equities, there is a huge upside for me that drives me to deliver significantly to the success of the company.
Map your plan, set your numbers, communicate confidently, and be flexible. Good things will happen.
Eventually.
Take it now. Notify, do not
I'm going to request it through another avenue
Not dealing with manager or her manager anymore
I was able to log in today to
I was able to log in today to look at my schedule.
Still blank
I hurried up and logged out but I do want to try to log in again one more time to take screenshots of my PMs to my sociopathic manager.
I think the Managers manager
I think the Managers manager called me and since I didn't recognize the number, I didn't answer.
She then sent me a text calling me someone else's name.
I replied to the text and asked for clarification if she was referring to that person then sent my manager a text asking if I was supposed
to meet with the lead manager
Still no response from either one of them.
If the conversation is not beneficial to me then I don't want it.