Why would you want to be married to someone that doesn’t make you happy? I think that you want the same things that all women want but I am not sure this is the dude that can deliver the goods. Would you rather leave it like it is or get married and go through a divorce like 75% of people on their second marriage. If you have never been married your concept of the institution is different from someone who has been married, divorced and with children.

is the movie "He's Just Not That Into You."

True, it's only a movie, but so much of it is true. If he's not proposing, he's not looking to get married. You could have a halo and wings, but if he's not "ready", he's not gonna propose.

I REALLY think you should think of renewing that lease. See what his reaction is. If he really misses you and wants you back and willing to MAKE YOU A PRIORITY for a change, make him WORK FOR IT.

I so agree with Sparky in that, if you are angry and resentful now, a ring isn't going to just make those feelings go away. If he is not FREELY giving you that ring and feels "obligated" to do so, HE WILL be filled with resent as well. Doesn't make for a very good start.

Hugs, honey. You're TOO YOUNG for this aggravation.

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."-Eleanor Roosevelt

I would just make your plans to get your own place again. You are not asking for too much. But like Sparky said: what if you do marry him and he treats you this way? Why is he so important and you are not??? Maybe just take a step back and start planning for yourself, and see what happens.

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth." - Vladimir Lenin

I can understand why you feel the way that you do. Most of the men that I have seen don’t want to get nailed down in a relationship. Of course they will take advantage of anything one has to offer. Women don’t want to waste their time on a relationship if they feel they don’t have a future. Men on the other hand usually don’t get married unless they are coerced or issued and ultimatum.

"To Thine Own Self Be True" William Shakesphere

honey, you wrote "I come last because I'm the one w/o a home, husband, or a kid of my own...nothing has my name on it, but he does, so I definitely come last!!! I'm sick of him even trying to pull that one on me cuz it's just crap! No matter how I hurt, he just ignores it and say's he comes last...whatever! I'm so tired of him. I want security and I want it now and as far as I'm concerned, i don't care if he takes it as an ultimatum or what...I want what I want and I want it now! I'm done being a doormat, or patient, or allowing him to make me feel this way. I want and deserve a life".I've tried being good and being nice but it's like, is there some time table of how long I have to 'not fight' with him in order to get what I want? I'm just so tired of him pulling all the strings with how I'm supposed to behave and what I'm supposed to do for HIM but I get nothing."

Why on earth do you even want to marry a man who ignores your pain, leaves you feeling as tho you have nothing? A man whose behaviour to you has you feeling so devalued?

A ring is certainly a commitment-or a promise of one. Do you want a commitment from this day forward you have to "not fight with him in order to get what you want?" A commitment to "feeling like a doormat?"

Because the only thing a ring, and the ceremony that follows, will change is your legal status. It won't change his attitude toward you.

I hope you find what you're looking for; be it with him or someone else. Just remember-that if marriage and family are what you want, there are other men in this world who can happily give you that (I think. I'm not so great at this myself, but I see others who are).

((hug))

Previous to getting married I was in a long term relationship with a man whom I loved very much but who was never ready to commit. We dated for 4 years but never lived together. At about the second year, I started wanting to move the relationship to the next level but he always had excuses, "what's the rush?", "you know that once we're together you will have access to all of my life"... basically loads and loads of BS.

AT about the second year one of my girlfriends introduced me to the Steve Harvey show ( a radio show) and I began listening to it on the way to work every morning. Some portions of the show give advise to women in regards to men and relationships(he also wrote a book). And, a lot of what he had to say made sense.

I kept giving my X ultimatums but was always afraid to follow through. Also I didn't set boundaries at the begining or gave him a list of my expectations.

Finally, I began to ask myself, how long is too long? And I asked myself and asked myself until I realized it was not really worth it to wait. Like you, I wanted to get married, have children and start a family but he just kept postponing it. After I left he also gave me a "promise" ring. But after 4 years it was kind of too little to late. It was really hard to let go because he really was a great guy and he knew how to take care of me, but ultimately our goals for the relationship were different and I had grown to resentful at his lack of commitment and at his manner of taking me for granted.

Now with DH, I put my cards out there from the begining, I explained to him my expectations of marriage and family and he complied. We were married less than a year after begining to see each other. Another mistake, he was the first person I took interest in after my break up.

Seems like me and you have a lot in common lil' and my heart goes out to you because I really understand the frustration you're going through along with the angst of leaving (((hugs)))

One can only hope!

I agree with Kitty Kat make him work for it. Renew the lease and if he wants you part of his life he will pay to break the lease. He paid off BMs credit card he should do something similar for you.

It’s all about the ticking clock. Men don’t get that because their clock isn’t ticking and even if it was they already got kds with someone else in most cases. Most women want the same thing that teapot wants and they know that after 37 yo they are in serious danger of having a disabled child and it scares them. I just tell women now if you want a baby go to the sperm bank, get out the turkey baster and forget about the guy.

I think your use of the term "dream" is very telling here. You are mourning the loss of that dream right now, and perhaps may be starting to realize on some level you are in love with the dream of what you could have with FH, rather than the reality of what you do have with him. I often tell friends who are unhappy with their current relationship, often women but sometimes men, who are convinced it's the commitment of marriage that will make them happy.

It isn't. You have been divorced yourself and know that marriage itself cannot make anyone happy, or faithful, or a priority. If your FH values you, you would already know it, be a priority etc. I think we often take forever to learn this lesson, but once you embrace it, and own it, ONLY THEN will you ever feel happiness and true fulfillment. Only when you really love yourself enough to be alone rather than with someone and lonely will you even begin the journey that will lead you to the one who will love you fully and unconditionally.

If he is making you miserable now, you can look forward to miserable ever after. A ring, a ceremony, a document will never ever fix that. I remember telling a couple guy friends of mine this too so it's not just women. One friend in particular was so bent on getting his fiance to marry him, he was totally overlooking his own happiness. I finally said to him, "Do you want the relationship you have right now for the rest of your life? Because THAT's what you're looking at my friend. More of this. Marriage doesn't make a good relationship bad, or a bad one good. It is just more of the same ever after."

They broke up. He finally started dating a really nice girl who loves and appreciates his niceness, rather than takes advantage of it. Because they are BOTH nice and considerate. When you are too accommodating, people who are not at all able to give will seek you out.

I hope you don't spend another year waiting for him to make you happy. GO OUT AND FIND WHAT MAKES YOU HAPPY NOW! You don't even have to leave him to start doing that. Just start today. Join a group that interests you, take a class you always wanted to. If he really loves you, he will encourage you, if he doesn't? He will demonstrate his discomfort in your ability to be happy with or without him. He will definitely make that discomfort known in the form of attempting to guilt, scare, threaten, or otherwise throwing road blocks your way.

MUCH luck and MANY hugs your way!

"When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." ~Geoffrey F. Abert

From Dr. Phil of all people. I don't agree with him on many things, but...

"We teach others how to treat us."

Rings very true. We can't expect them to do better, when we accept the least they have to offer all the time.

So get yourself "clean" of this unhealthy habit (FH) and then set about teaching others how you deserve to be treated from the minute you meet them!

"When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." ~Geoffrey F. Abert

at your age...
it took two divorces for me to finally realize that I needed to hold out for what I wanted--I had two marriages where the grooms were "reluctant" but I was overly compliant, giving, did most of the work, etc. I wanted to be married so badly--to be the chosen one who was loved and cared for..both were takers, hated it when I left, of course. I lived with them both first, which I think added pressure to get married--I felt kind of like we should, morally, etc. They both wanted to live with me, but dragged feet on marriage thing.
So, finally got my head on straight, thought about what I wanted, dated a lot, turned away offers that weren't up to par, finally got myself to the point where I could ACCEPT love (not just give it) and lo and behold, met my DH. HE chased me, CALLED ME every day (more than once), PUT ME FIRST over BM and his kids. We are tight, in all ways. Emotionally, spiritually, physically, mentally. He is my partner and my best friend. Our only regret is that we didn't get together 20 years ago.
This guy doesn't want to get married. Who cares what the reason is? Don't blame yourself and get out. Let him find another woman to "take care" of him. Don't like his possessiveness, read Emotional Blackmail to recognize that.
Let him crawl on his knees through crocodile poop to get to you...and you might consider it. But by then, you'll have tons of suitors...you can bet on it.
Mama Gena is good for pep talks about how valuable you are...and she doesn't male bash. I used a lot of her techniques and I had men 30 years younger hitting on me.
A relationship shouldn't be so hard. Don't waste any more time.

You said in your initial post that you pretend to be happy, ignoring those things that make you mad, just so that everything is ok. My question is, ok for whom? For you? Or for him?

Why on earth would you want to be with a man if you have to PRETEND to be happy? By quashing your true feelings just to make him happy is not being honest with yourself. Any man who keeps dangling that carrot in front of your face in hopes you will continue to stay is just using you for his convenience. He may be telling you that you're the best thing that's ever happened to him, but is he SHOWING you? That little saying, actions speak louder than words, is absolutely 100% true. Would you really feel more secure if he proposed? Would you want him to propose simply because you expected him to, or would you want him to propose because he really, truly loves you and wants you to be his wife? If he were to propose it should come from his heart and not the result of an ultimatum.

Believe me, I know what it's like to have someone string you along. It is very hurtful, very humiliating and makes you feel totally dismissed. You will start to punish yourself for being foolish enough to allow someone to do that to you. I know; I been there, done that, bought and burned the T-shirt.

I believe Sita quoted Dr. Phil, and there's another question he always asks: How's that working for ya?

{{{{{HUGS}}}}}

Hey LT - first of all I am so sorry that you are down and out. I hated reading your post today and I'm sorry that your BF is not following through on the promises that he made. If you are not happy now you know deep down that even though if you do get that ring it may make you happy for a little while but all the same problems will still exist. I have an engagement ring and let me tell you I took it off when my FH and I had problems last year and until we had counseling and things settled down and when I felt confident in my relationship then I put it back on. Your BF sounds like he is not going to give you what you want. This is the year 2009 we don't need a man to give us security. That was the 60's girl, feel empowered as a woman, a smart individual, that can go along in life just fine and pay your own way. I'm only a couple of years older than you and trust me I went through a lot of relationships for 20 years and had a lot of promises broken and I have learned to always look out for myself. You have to be like a cat and always know how to land on your feet. Security is being happy with yourself, and happy in your relationship. I know this is a broken record because so many other people posted the same thing but girl I tell you it is true. I already have a 22 yeard old so my biological time clock is not ticking but if that is what YOU want do not waste your time with a man that will not follow through. We only get one life. We do not get a "do over". I have known several women that are now divorced and childless because their SOs kept promising them the same things that your FH did and they never got to have children because the men that they were with were to selfish to tell them the truth. You deserve happiness, you deserve to have a child of your own, and you deserve someone that is going to treat you with the love and respect that you deserve, and someone that puts you first. I know it is hard starting over and it sucks because lord knows I have had to do it several times but let me tell you it is better to be alone and be free then to be alone in your relationship and miserable. Just my opinion. I hope you do the right thing for you! HUGS!

I saw this on another chat and wanted to share with you. All lot of girls your age are going through the same thing.

He doesn't want to get married. After 7 years (living togethre for 6) and more fights about this than I care to remember, I think we're done and I can't believe it. I can't stop crying and he is going about his day as if nothing happened - he needs time to think and then we can talk. I'm not sure how I'm going to make it through the next hour let alone until tonight. And in all likelihood, it will be longer than that because we probably won't have time to talk until Saturday afternoon anywa - SDs are here this week.

I will preface this by saying that I'm on FULL PMS, which is when these things usually happen because I get a little crazy and don't know when to stop. The last time we had this crisis was almost a year ago. I told him that I needed to be married. He had made promises before, but this time I told him I wanted him to follow through and actually propose. He went into his standard speech of "I don't know if I ever want to be married again, it just ends in divorce," "I want to be with you, but I don't want to be married," "We're basically married anyway," etc. I told him unless we got engaged, I was leaving. He said "If I have to, I'll marry you." I told him that was not good enough and I was leaving. He didn't know it at the time but I had an apartment lined up, had the lease and just needed to sign. I was ready to leave. He came to me the next morning and said "please don't leave, I love you and I want to marry you." He said we would get married.

I believed him, and I stayed. He apparently looked at rings, but never bought one (says the kind of ring I want is too expensive), and we never got engaged.

This has been on my mind every day since then. I've gotten my hopes up several times (that he was going to propose) and had them crushed. It has affected how I've acted (I'm resentful and hurt) and our relationship, which he then uses as "evidence" that we shouldn't be married.

I've been particularly bitchy - complaining and overreacting about everything lately (for the past several months). I'm seriously thinking I need medication.

So in the midst of that and PMS, I bring up the marriage issue after we have our first date night in forever last Friday. I know, awful timing, but I did. It did not go well, but I didn't get upset. He started making the same "I don't know if I want to be married" noises and I told him we already had that conversation and I thought he made that decision. He said he would think about it.

Last night I was in a rotten mood and should never have brought up anything, but I did, and it went horribly.

He basically told me that he still didn't want to be married. We literally had the same exact conversation we had a year ago. This time though I don't think I'm strong enough to leave. I told him he lied to me and led me on and I was angry, which he turned in to me trying to make him feel guilty.

I was up all night crying and he was furious that I kept him up late. He was still angry this morning and I was still a mess.

We talked briefly before leaving for work. Now we're back to he needs time to think. He still doesn't know if he ever wants to be married and isn't sure we'll "last forever."

I can't even think right now. I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't think I can be alone right now. I could have done it last year, but I can't even hold it together for more than a few minutes at this point. I can't imagine leaving, and I can't imagine not being with him. I can't imagine not having SDs in my life, even though they have been the source of a lot of our problems. I can't believe this is the end, it doesn't seem right and it doesn't make any sense. He says he loves me and wants to be with me, but he doesn't want to be married. That it's MY decision - us not staying together -because I'M the one that needs to be married.

I know that you're all probably thinking that I am incredibly pathetic and why would I let this happen, but I love him and I don't know what I'm going to do without him. He owes me a lot of money, and when he said he needed to think he added "and look at some things." I said "you mean finances" and he said "yes." So he's trying to decide if he can afford for me to leave. I can't tell you how much that hurts.