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Disengagement: A fluid place

MorningMia's picture

The first five years of our marriage involved such horrible attacks and turmoil that it almost did us in--multiple times. When we shut out BM from our lives by the end of Year Two, one of her last desperate calls was, *"We all need to get along [really?!? that's what this is called?] for future weddings, holidays, and grandchildren." By the end of Year Five, skid behavior was so god-awful, I shut the door on them. DH and I decided he would see his kids in some place other than our home unless they apologized and changed their behavior. SS apologized. SD cried and screamed.  
 
Things were peaceful for a long time. There were the jabs and pokes here and there, primarily BM occasionally emailing DH in attempts to reestablish a (drama-filled toxic) relationship with him without my intrusion--ha!--but that was it.  DH held (mostly) steady. He confronted the skids a number of times through the years about their still-poisoned behavior. The "discussion" never made it to the discussion phase. Ok. *shrug* 

SD tried to drag us back in before she got married because she needed money. I hadn't seen her in 7 years when she invited herself to our house, drank a load of wine, and then wanted to "clear the air." We had an interesting discussion, but no apology ever came from her mouth. She KNEW that was the deal. She KNEW she owed me/us one. She has eternally dug in her heels. Her choice. It was embarrassingly transparent that her visit to supposedly make amends was so that DH would pay for her wedding. (She didn't tell us she was engaged at the time, but I knew what this was all about). My hero husband did not pay for the wedding. He said to me that he was cut out of any decisions regarding her life, secrets were kept from him for years, he had been suckered into paying or other things, and he was purposely and actively "punished." Therefore, he contributed only a small obligatory amount and was shocked to learn at the wedding that he would not be walking his daughter down the aisle alone.  *During SD's visit, she eerily parroted, *"We all need to get along for future weddings, holidays, and grandchildren." 

I knew when the babies were going to show up, Hostage Situation 202 was going to occur. After Baby #1, BM actually texted me and DH (separately) photos. I replied something like, "Cute. Thanks." Again, had BM perhaps chosen to apologize for her s*** behavior through the years, we might have been able to have a conversation. Or not. I guess she was expecting me to fall all over myself that she sent me a photo of Hostage #1 Revisited. 

For years, things were good. Honestly, I never thought about them all that much. SS would visit now and then, but then his visits became rude-fests as he got older, so I told DH we needed to clamp down. Then DH had a health crisis last year--around the time I joined Steptalk (the reason I joined ST). For some damn reason, I thought that perhaps adulthood and the fact that there was a major crisis occuring would lead to at least semi-normal behavior, that people would rise to the occasion. Instead, it was a nightmare. I felt I had opened a door that should have remained shut--like in one of those shows about demons...lol...Do NOT open yourself to this. While I had suggested to SS that he and his sister find an Airbnb, somehow that suggestion got lost in the turmoil (yea, because they didn't want to pay). I hated being in my own house with them here--"kids" who clearly could not let go for even one hour of their "job" to treat me with disrespect out of loyalty to their mother. 

At one point, SS said to me, "Mom sent up a gift card for us for dinner."  My response, "How nice."
I never saw that GD dinner. I needed that damn dinner. I was so exhausted. I wanted that dinner. 

Since that time, both skids have been in heavy contact with DH. I get that the reality has hit them that their dad will some day die. But, my God, it feels so much like manipulation again. It feels like a door has been open so wide, which is probably why I have been "in it" again (here) for nearly six months. Before that time, I was good. Now, there is that ever-present cloud here again. 

I'm fine with my disengagement. Or should I say RE-disengagement. I don't communicate with the skids at all. I don't see anything on social media. I don't look for it. They can't see anything about me. DH and I are back on the same page that the skids will not step foot in this house no matter what. No matter what. He, though, is pulled in by grandbabies and pictures and videos and stories, of course. Recently, he is talking almost daily about the grands.  

Here is the echo: *"We all need to get along for future weddings, holidays, and grandchildren."   Well, why the F didn't you all work TOWARD relationships that would result in that?! They want the end result without having put in the effort. 

That is where we are now. They will never stop. I get that DH has the right, of course, to have relationships with his kids (even though his kids treat him like crap for the most part). I have never ever disputed that or disagreed with it. 

I just want the feeling I had for years before his health crisis. There were years I for the most part just didn't think about them.  

If you ever hear, "We all need to get along for future weddings, holidays, and grandchildren" while being treated like crap, run. Run like hell. :) 

 

Comments

Rags's picture

I disagree that DH has a right to a relationship with his children.  He has no right to have a relationship with anyone who disrepects his wife other than to pursue them to their utter desctruction.

My dad gave us clarity early. "Never put me in the position of having to choose between you and your mother. That is no choice for  me and it will be extremely unpleasant for you both (he was speaking to both of his sons) if you ever try it.".  I do not recall what the situation was but the message was unequivocal.

That your DH has no balls to defend his marriage  and his wife .... says way more than I care to know about him.

Take care of you.

Give rose

MorningMia's picture

We have tried to do what works for us. He was confronting the ingrates (repeatedly) primarily to have them lie to him in response. SD has forever told him she has never done anything to apologize for. Much of the s**** thrown my way has been covert, when he's in another room, and most recently when he was recovering. SD especially is extremely manipulative. She used to always say, "Tell Mia I say hi!" DH does recognize my experience and I suppose has wrestled with how to deal with it when his skids flat out lie to him. 
He loves his kids. That's not going away, even though they have treated him like crap, too. He seems to erase their regular rude actions directed toward him. So, we have agreed that he sees them outside of our home. This has worked. For the most part, we have been fine with the skids losing out because of their poor behavior. 
It's been since the health crisis that the cloud has been hovering. Hostage crisis part 2 (grands) on the horizon.

Stepdrama2020's picture

You were raised well.

Dang you should give a training course to all the "confused" DH's.

 

Lillywy00's picture

Lol! I see what you did there with the quotes bc my rational mind is "these Disney characters are acting confused" ...

Lillywy00's picture

My dad gave us clarity early. "Never put me in the position of having to choose between you and your mother. That is no choice for  me and it will be extremely unpleasant for you both (he was speaking to both of his sons) if you ever try it.".  I do not recall what the situation was but the message was unequivocal.
 

That's a good man right there. 
 

And look you turned out just fine with your marriage in tact with these principles 

 

if more men were like your dad....I'm convinced this forum might not exist 

MorningMia's picture

if more men were like your dad....I'm convinced this forum might not exist 
 

My dad, too, was more of a clear black/white thinker--it's this way or that way--so my situation wth DH, the ex, and the skids being much more in gray areas in some ways has been...let's say interesting...to navigate. I sometimes wish the world was more black/white, but in so many cases it just isn't.  But I agree...when we make ourselves clear, when we set strong boundaries, when we refuse to be gaslighted, others either run or snap into shape. In our case, for the most part, I have been the clear boundary setter, so I'm the evil one. 

Rags's picture

In my experience, Grey in relationships is dealt with by establishing and enforcing standards of behavior and standards of performance. 

Those of us who have them and enforce them have little issue with putting the outcome of decisions on those making those decisions.  There is only two choices. Comply with the standards, or don't comply with the standards.  One returns a pleasant outcome, the other returns less than pleasant outcomes.  Their choice. They choose their behavior, they choose the outcome.  

The shift from behavior based interface to feelings based interface has turned what really is very simple into something unneccessarily complicated.

Of course not everything has a standard.  Though even in those cases standards based behavior and performance models are extremely effective in training effective decisioning and thought processes. Just because  there is not a standard for a specific situation does not alleviate the person making that decision being held accountable for the quality of that decision.

IMHO of course.

MorningMia's picture

Your comments cause me to think back on a lot. I'm seeing how the skids did fear what you are talking about (a strong stance) because DH can be very black/white and harsh at times and in fact was painted as a hard azz scary dad by the ex, so the skids, I see, very expertly navigated their path, probably with mommy guidance--I never saw it that way before. As I mentioned, 95% of their bad behavior toward me has been VERY planned and covert (this really gives me the creeps), and their maneuvering (manipulation)--I love you, Daddy! I don't know what you're talking about! I didn't do that!--is the slippery slope where DH lost his footing. I realize (and knew) that he as the adult shouldn't have fallen for it. That was a weakness we discussed a lot when we saw to a therapist. I think he has moved "half-way"--to a place where everyone around him has felt mostly satisfied (not completely). 
I am in awe (not in a good way or a bad way) of what the dynamics have been and how complex they have been and continue to be. . . thus the "fluid" disengagment.  
I wish this lid had never been opened as it was during his health crisis last year. I realize I am once again NAVIGATING, this time as SD manipulates via the grands, as I always knew she would. I'm wondering if in the future I should just put on my Big B hat and say it like it is. 
DH has been smacked down himself multiple times by his kids. And their response to him of, "I don't know what you're talking about" always suffices, for some reason.  I guess I recognize that I have no power to change that. 
I don't know if I'm mad at you or grateful to you that I have much to think about here--much that I wish I didn't need to consider. 
Thanks. I think! lol

Rags's picture

My appologies for tossing a turd in the punchbowl. So to speak.

Assessing behaviors and performance against standards is confirmation bias to my black and white perspectives.  If I keep it simple, I do not go down the proverbial rat hole chasing why people do what they do.  I focus on the what. What is far simpler to identify and address than is why.

Take care of  you.

MorningMia's picture

Thanks. I am definitely a "why" thinker. I appreciate your perspective. 

Stepdrama2020's picture

EXACTLY!