Is this appropriate?....
Is this scenario appropriate?
MIL in hospital with serious but currently stable condition.
BM, finds this out and turns up at the hospital unannounced to visit ex-MIL, uninvited and without prior notice to DH.
BM is carrying a set of keys in her hand and asks ex-father-in-law if he wants to stay at her place (she is not far from the hospital).
I have always had a problem with MIL asking DH's ex to lunch etc as she is his ex....but have never said anything to MIL. I might add that MIL complains about and criticises BM to me at every opportunity and I look at this as two-faced. However, I also see that it provides BM with the belief that she still has significant in-roads into my DH's family.
I was really annoyed that BM had time to go and visit my MIL, but sent her daughter around to our place for the weekend for me to lend my clothes to because she didn't have appropriate ones to wear.
MIL states that she wants to keep in with BM so that she gets unfettered access to her grandchild (SD). However, there is clear evidence to suggest that BM cannot wait to alleviate herself of SD by ferrying her off to us and the grandparents whenever she can and that this has nothing to do with access and more to do with unfounded fear and anxiety.
I think the whole ex issue is up to my DH to navigate, not his mother. It is not up to our parents to have whatever relationship they want with our exes. To me, it's lack of respect for our new partners for our families to encourage sustained close ties (and unnecessary ones) with our exes without seeking our permission to do so. My MIL has never asked my DH whether he agrees or approves of her actions and this to me also shows lack of respect that he is a man, not a boy whom she can dismiss as such. Again, it's ignorance and probably never occurred to her.
We have no control over such MILs. However, we can control how we react. It does, I've got to be honest, affect how I perceive my MIL and it makes less inclined to want to spend time with her.
Why would an ex want to turn up at the hospital bedside of her former MIL when she never contacts her normally? I can only think that the motives were not so much about my MIL but everything about the assertion of her "position".
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I would be a bit annoyed
However as a Grandmother myself I have to think about how I would feel if my son and wife broke up. I have known DIL since she was a child and as a MIL if I were sick I would not ask anyone permission to have her come see me. That is my relationship with her. No one else has a say so. She is a part of my life, the mother of my grandbabies, etc. If my son got involved or remarried then the new person coming in would just have to understand that I love her and whatever happened in their marriage had nothing to do with me. I can't stop loving DIL just because the marriage broke up. Of course my DIL is not one of the pycho bitch BM's. She is a wonderful person and a great mother. If they ever did break up it would depend. Did son cheat on her with this new person? If that is the case I would not even want to go there with this new person that has the nerve to start making demands. I don't believe in cheating period. Is DIL cheating on my son? It depends on the situation and I am the one who does the choosing on whom I am going to have a relationship in my life with. Not son or new person in his life.
My Grandchildren are a huge part of my life and no one is going to stand in between us because they may be uncomfortable or not like DIL. But I would NEVER talk to DIL about my son's new marriage or relationship. That is a big no no. My ex MIL was evil and did things like that to me as a BM. I was hurt and swore I would never treat my DIL like I was treated.
Speaking as a wife yes it would annoy me but again just because I married my DH does not wipe out his history. I knew coming into the marriage what relationships were formed year before I came along and I am trying to form one now with MIL. She is a sweetheart and doesn't like the way BM treated her son so my situation is a bit different. I guess it would depend on who did what to whom but my Grand daughters would be my main concern and my biggest priority.
I have an opinionated opinion on this one... LOL
Think about this scenario... as a MIL, do you personally chose your DIL? As a mother, you do not chose your sons/daughters significant other, therefore, why is it okay that when a divorce presents itself, that all of a sudden, everything has changed? I'm curious.
I understand what you are saying, and I'm not saying whether I agree or not, but who's best interest is it? Is it in your best interest? It's a double edge sword at this point, isn't it? Because we do not chose this individual for our children, they chose for themselves, then we bond with that person as though they are our child- I would hope or assume. We do not live with them to know of their struggle, just see their tribulations of divorce. And yes, their divorce has nothing to do with you as a MIL, but I would assume that it sends a message of where does your loyalties lie? I would feel as a child of a mother who still communicated with my ex, whom I've had a communication failure with, I would question where your loyalties lie. With me, or them. And as you being my mother, that would send a shock wave through me, especially confusion and my trust.
Just my thoughts...
Man has the intelligence to change his life,
Sometimes, he just fails to use it...
Like I Said
It would depend on the situation. If Ex DIL is making life difficult for my son and acting like my DH EX, I would say it would be a different situation. I would not want to make things difficult for son.
Understand this. As a Grandmother we have NO visitation rights to Grand children. Even less rights then as a Stepmother and we can't always depend on sons or daughters to back us up. Hopefully my son would pick up GD and take her to see me however I live a couple of hours away so it wouldn't be easy. I will not cut communication off with Ex DIL and treat her like shit just to appease new DIL unless she has good reason not just because I don't want you to and because I say so. I don't allow ANYONE dictate what I do and you simply can't stop loving someone just because they decide they don't love each other anymore.
What I don't like and believe me I am going through this with my ex. He remarried to a woman who for no good reason decided she didn't want ex to have ANY or very little contact with my sons or myself. My sons and I have done nothing to make her feel this way. My EX and I have been just friends for years. We have known each other since childhood. I don't even talk to him unless it deals with a family emergency. I am remarried now but this woman decided since she is now married to ex that because of her insecurites she doesnt want for us to exist in her new husbands life. Ok I can understand her feeling that way about me so I stay away totally. But she doesnt want ex to associate with even his own sons and fights with ex when he even calls or visits sons. My sons dislikes her because hey we can't help he had a past with us. This woman doesn't like even our existence which is messed up!! My son's were around long before she even came into the picture and they don't interfere or say anything to him about how they feel. My sons will not just disappear just because new wife totally out of her own insecurites and jealousy comes in demanding that all ties be broken. The same point with an new DIL and an Ex DIL. I will not simply not see ex DIL simply because new DIL is jealous, demanding, or insecure. That is not my problem it is hers. If the problem is that it is just her making demands in my sons life and attempting to dictate other lives then no I will not stand up for this because it would not be right. If ex DIL is being difficult, making life hell for son then I would not see her at all but I would request that I see my Grandchildren. I think it is wrong for ex DIL and MIL to discuss anything to do with my sons new marriage. Now that is meddling. There is a fine line to walk with this situation and quite frankly a lot of diplomacy needs to go along with it.
Understand this also. I am BEST friends with both my first and second husbands ex wives and have been for about 25 years now. We all raised our children with a lot of love and devotion to the children. No jealousies, arguments etc. My son has witnessed the fact that if adults are acting like adults there is no reason that you can't have the best of all worlds. That is of course if you are not dealing with a nutcase like my DH ex wife or my ex MILs. That is the reason I am on this site. I don't understand the world of nutcases, jealousy, and why BM's act the way they do. I won't put up with that behavior from DIL, ex DIL, or even my own son. I have seen it all. I would expect my son in this matter to be an adult and want everyone to get along for his own children's sake.
Realist,
I remembered last night a very similiar situation with my ex MIL. She was in the hospital VERY sick (she died a year later) and requested that I come an visit. I wondered why after sooo much time she wanted me to be there. When I got there she told me how much she always loved me (yeah right) and was trying to get us back together after about 20 years!!!
I didn't know what to say because this MIL treated me horribly when I was just a child myself. I didn't say much however I realize now that she was just trying to get in between ex and his new girlfriend at the time and using me as a weapon against the new girlfriend. That was wrong!!! I am sure ex's GF was wondering why I was even there and I appeared to be the bad one which made me angry. All I am saying is I totally understand how you feel. Hopefully MIL will realize she was wrong and hopefully is not using ex DIL as a weapon against you.
On the contrary, you do have
On the contrary, you do have rights as a grandparent to visitation with grandchildren. What most don't realize is that you too can go to court, and face the same treatment as fathers, but it can be done. You do have parental rights to grandchildren if visitation is refused. It's a matter of knowledge and knowing the law, the right court cases and yes, I do know for a fact because we did this for my husbands parents who resided in another state, and the BM would refuse visitation from them when they came to visit. It wasn't my dear husband that filed, it was his parents that filed and got a court order for visitation when they came to our state. Many just do not pursuit the visitation and assume that the law is against them.
Thanks but I don't agree
Thanks so much for your reply. I have to say though, while I understand that being a grandmother in such a situation is difficult, the son's new marriage comes first. It's not a case of favouring one DIL over another. It's a case of respecting that son has moved on. He has divorced. Divorce means a marrital sever of ties. The children are a different story. Yes, any new wife has to accept her husband's history - ie) his children. But she does not have to accept the ex wife's continued ties to her husband's family.
You say that "no one else has a say so" in your relationship with your DIL. I respect your warm feelings towards your DIL, but with respect, I think the most important person who should have a say is your son. If he were remarried and didn't approve of your close relationship with his ex because he wanted separation of his former marriage from his new one - I think that he comes first.
It is interesting to me that your last sentence seems to be how my MIL feels. And maybe that's the way lots would. I don't know.
I have had to listen to my MIL tell others that I shouldn't have any more children - and I'm sure that it's because her priority is SD, not her son. I truly believe that if MIL cared about her son, she would see the chance he has to seize a bit of happiness and to create a family which he no longer had when he left his ex, a family that includes SD when she visits.
And no, I met my DH way after he left and there was no cheating on either side of our respective marriages. But I don't think the "niceness" or a son or daughter-in-law's treatment of their former partner should have any bearing on the issue. For me, it's a matter of the parties moving on. There's no need for acrimony, nastiness, etc - just an understanding that the parties have moved on and that lunches, dinners, whatever are no longer appropriate unless your son or daughter agree (in consultation with the wife/husband).
Like I always say - MIL can do what she wants. She can go camping with my DH's ex. But she can't hedge her bets.
I don't agree with your MIL
In what you said about having more kids. That is between you and BF.
I hope I never have to deal with son and DIL breaking up because I think of her as a daughter and I am very active in my Grandchildren's life. I totally understand how you feel however I feel my son is an adult and can make his own decisions regarding his life. He is a smart man and has a good head on his shoulders and she has been in my home since she was 12. It is a different situation then most marriages. If they ever do break up I would be open to a relationship with new DIL however new DIL, son, nor old DIL will dictate what I do. I am an adult an make my own decisions. I will always try to be fair and polite. I don't interfere at all with them. My oldest son was engaged to a girl I found obnoxious, an alchoholic, and just no good in my eyes but I never said a word how I felt. I felt he had to make his own descisions. I was secretly doing the happy dance when they broke up however I was also feeling bad for my son cause I know he was hurting.
I guess I have to look at the situation. My experience with MIL's have been really bad in my past marriages. My ex MIL's were just plain mean, threw other women in my face...etc. I can understand how you feel because I had ex's thrown in my face and they made my life miserable. I would NEVER do that to anyone my sons were married to.
Hang in there Realist
I too have a MIL like you. She & the EX HATED each other when DH & EX were married & MIL talks negatively about the EX all the time. But, when they are together, which is more frequent than I like, they are bossom buddies. I think they thrive on each other's desire to gossip about everyone else (probably about me!). After many years of this, I finally got the nerve up to tell my MIL how I feel & why, it did not change any thing but as least I have made my feelings known. I did tell MIL that at the age of 96 (yes, 96!), she can have whomever she wants to her home, but "our" home is off limits to the EX and she does NOT have the authority to extend an invitation to anyone without our approval. DH & EX have been divorced over 24/25 years (can't remember, it's been a long time) and just 5 months ago, the EX turned to me and said "I've been thinking about driving ---- (MIL) to see her sister in Maine, since I have nothing to do." What????? So, I said, "Have you talked to her about that because, DH & I are taking her up next summer!" She just had one of those stupid looks on her face. All I wanted to say is GET A LIFE AND GET OUT OF OURS!!! When my DH was in intensive care this New Year's, the EX was going to drive from FL to VA (500 miles!) so she (the EX) could drive MIL to the hospital (hospital is a 40 minute drive) to see son/DH. What??? The EX is just a real nosy wench!!! I told MIL who was very sick with a sinus infection to not come as DH was very suseptible to germs & a phone call would suffice. I have come to the conclusion that the EX doesn't have a life & "creates" whatever fantasy world she wants but intruding on ours with MIL's approval. Go figure!!!
I agree...but
I do agree that NO ONE has the right to dictate to ANYONE who they can & can't be friendly with. But I sure as hell have a RIGHT to who comes to my home and attends any function that I have initiated. MIL can do what she wants @ her home. Just don't expect us to participate if EX is there, especially when all the SKids involved are over 38 y.o. and have children of their own. MIL calls the EX a sl** behind her back & turns around and sucks up to her when she is around. And why? NONE, I repeat NONE of the SKid's live with the EX, all are married & have moved on, it's not like the EX is there for the SKid's protection!!! Pulleasseeee get a life!!!!
I Completely Disagree
imo you have to set those boundaries from the beginning. Your dh should have told his mother that she see's her grandchildren when he drops them off or at your house. He really needs to specify after this to cut off the contact with his ex. My brother had to do this because his ex was also a total idiot, and somehow thought we'd love her showing up at various events. None of us could stand her, but the majority that do it, do it solely because they know it causes trouble. Its really up to your dh now to have a talk and end it, because thats way over the line showing up there imo.
I Love my ExMIL
I have a great relationship with my Ex MIL and would never want to lose that because her son and I couldn't make a go of it. And if she was in the hospital, I would be right there by her side. My DH has no problem with this and when she calls me, she always talks to DH like he is family too. Those were my family members for 15 years and a piece of paper changing my name is not going to change that. I guess that might make my ex's new wife uncomfortable, not sure. But I would never want my ExMIL feel like I turned my back on her. As for MIL talking about ex to you, maybe she is just trying to"fit" in. Belive me, I can see your point. But just keep in mind that MIL didn't choose to have you or your DH ex in her life. I think she is doing a good job of embracig the situations she has been given.
Ex mil
I too still have a really great relationship with ex mil. She is just great and I love her very much. She has no ill-will towards me because of my decision to end the the relationship with her son and treats my Dh like family. I too would be there for her because I would want her to know that she always has my support, but I would take my ex's or his significant other's feelings into consideration and try to be respectful. A phone call to give him an FYI that I was coming by or something like that so that I didn't make anyone uncomfortable.
Is it
ok with your ex and his wife? If not you need to butt out and move on. If their perfectly fine with it, that would be different.
Very well spoken
I couldn't have said it better.
Wow, Fearless! You go, girl!
In case you can't see me, I'm giving you a standing O right now!
As for me, my MIL has become a second mother to me and I love her to death. I know she loves me, too. If I ever split up with her son, I know that we would remain friends. I don't love her because she's my husband's mother, I love her because she is my friend. We talk almost every single day and I simply cannot imagine her in my life. I would always want her in my children's life, too. She's a very special person who has really enriched my life.
If we divorced and DH remarried, then obviously I'd be respectful of that new union and I wouldn't force my presence anywhere that it was not wanted. But I would try to stay on civil terms with my DH and I would definitely not stop being friends with my MIL. What would I say to her? I'm sorry, MIL, I love you and I'll miss you dreadfully, but I can't be your friend anymore because your son and I split up. I mean, come on. We're not twelve. I don't have to stop being friends with Cindy just because Tommy asked Betty to the big dance instead. Jeez!
Divorce does end the MIL/DIL relationship, but if there's a genuine friendship there that exists outside the marriage, then I see no reason why that should have to end. I'd not only be losing a MIL, but also my best friend. And she'd be losing more than just a DIL, as well.
~ Anne ~
We are the masters of our own fate; the architects of our own destiny.
Not doing a song and dance about it...
Thanks for all of your comments.
Whilst I raised this issue on this forum, I would never raise it with my MIL. Why? Because, like you say, it is not my place. It is DH's.
It is not a biggie for me - I am just of a certain opinion and that's that.
We all don't agree with each other and wouldn't it be a boring world if we did.
At the end of the day- it doesn't really matter. People act the way they want and we all have a choice about how we react. I choose to let it go and not raise it with MIL. I choose to show MIL respect and courtesy as DH's mother. But I also choose to disagree with her approach (privately of course).
I have a problem with hypocrisy and when I know facts about the way that BM has treated ex-MIL over the years (whilst married) I do find it difficult to equate her actions with some selfless motive - and this is a very different scenario to the one described by you Fearless, which, in that case I fully take your point.
Realist