Looks like SD15 will be leaving us...
I talked to DH about what happened on Friday with SD15 skipping out on work and lying to me about what she was doing and where she would be and that she said she wants to move to BM's. He agreed with me about being upset with her for what happened and told me I handled it the best I could. He is going to talk to BM and set some guidelines for the switch. Since DH is the custodial parent at the moment, we are going to have to make some changes in the custody agreement.
For more than 2 years now, BM has been getting away with only paying CS when she feels like it and she pays less than half of what she is supposed to pay. We don't have it anywhere in legal paperwork that she had it legally changed for any reason. She hasn't held a job for more than 6 months in over 2 years. We are afraid she is going to look at SD15 as a meal ticket. We want to legally work out the details of CS before we make the switch. I am thinking that if push comes to shove we can call her on all the back child support she owes from the past 8 years. Not that we don't want to pay what is needed to help support SD15, but we want to make sure that SD15 is benefiting from it and BM is not using the money as her soul income for booze and tattoos.
This is going to be really difficult for DH. SD15 has always been with him, but he knows he needs to let SD15 go. We aren't doing her any good here. She does not respect us and is not good for Bks 3 and 5. The stress in the house has been nonstop for almost 2 months now. SD15's actions are just escalating and we have run out of options when it comes to consequences for her actions. Nothing works with her anymore. Discipline and consequences mean nothing because she just lies and deceives us and gets caught and gets herself in more trouble. This is a miserable situation for everyone involved and I am ready for it to be over. If it were up to me, she would be on a plane tomorrow. She is obviously unhappy here. She has been avoiding me and my BKs like the plague for 2 days now. My BKs don't understand why she is just flat out ignoring them when they try to talk to her when she used to play with them all the time. It's hard for me to watch and I try to distract them from what is going on as much as possible. I hate to say it, but I will be able to breathe a sigh of relief when this is all worked out and SD15 is gone.
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Comments
I don't have any great advice
I don't have any great advice but I can say I totally understand how you feel. It's amazing what havoc a teenager with issues can wreak in a household and the stress is explosive.
Best of luck with the switch....
L
We are extremely concerned
We are extremely concerned about what is going to happen with CS. Right now, BM is paying less than half of what she is supposed to pay, and she only pays it when it strikes her fancy. We are afraid that she is going to immediately want us to pay a ridiculous amount of money so she can stay unemployed. We will just have to dig in and take a stand. She owes us A LOT of back child support, but we've never pushed for it before. I think maybe now might be the time to play that card.
We've talked to her about
We've talked to her about different scenarios that could happen should she actually go through with leaving. She knows that BM is unstable financially, emotionally, and psychologically. She has been told that she is not the only one to consider...we have to think about what is best in the long run for our two little ones, as well. We have told her that it may come to a point where she will not be allowed to come back. We plan to try and keep in touch with her as much as she will let us to kind of keep an eye on the situation, but I know that in reality we will probably get ignored and blown off. I am like you, I need to make sure that my own children have the best chance at having a happy, healthy life and home as possible. SD knows that our rules do not change...she has had to deal with going back and forth between a household with no rules or boundaries and one that has expectations and responsibilities before. She knows that I do not waiver when it comes to rules and what I expect of my children. She has said she doesn't plan on coming back, but she has also said if things get too bad she will ask if she can come back. I don't think she really knows what to expect right now, and honestly, neither do we. All I can do is pray and let God do the rest.
I don't think my SD and her
I don't think my SD and her mother talk about killing themselves together (although BM has tried to kill herself at least once in the past 3 years), but I do know that when they do talk, you would think SD was talking to her best friend or something, but then SD goes around talking about how crappy their relationship is and how she hates BM for never being there for her...huh? BM is very unpredictable when it comes to her actions with SD. In the seven years I have been part of this equation, BM has never been consistent about anything with SD other than neglecting to take part in her life as a parent. I think for the first 3-6 months it will like a honeymoon period for them. SD will get whatever she wants and have no rules or boundaries. Then, I think BM will start doing everything she can to keep SD out of her hair and keep her happy so that she doesn't actually have to act like a parent. Then things will spiral out of control and one thing will lead to another and SD will be more screwed up than she already is...and may even ask to come back, but she won't be allowed to because we will not have her destroying the lives of our other two children.
Thank you so much for replying to my blog. It is so good to know that I am not alone in this and that the feelings that I am having are felt by others in similar situations. It really helps a lot.
Personally, I'm really glad
Personally, I'm really glad to hear other parents acknowledge that there may come a point when a child who chose to leave will not be permitted to come back.
That's the point we have gotten to with SS15, who has left twice.
BM has him now, and says she wants to leave the country, and asked SO what he would do if she left SS here. SO told her she'd better take SS with her, because he isn't coming back to live with us.
I posted about it on my blog, and got a reply saying that if SO doesn't allow SS to come back, then SO is "abandoning" him.
Apparently you either allow this in your home at the whim of the child, or you're "abandoning" them.
Totally not feeling the love today (shrug).
http://www.steptalk.org/node/29288
L
I don't see it as
I don't see it as abandonment...I see it as we've done all we can for her. She isn't listening to us, she is disrespectful, she is causing constant stress between everyone in our house. If we can't do any good for her anymore, why not let BM have a crack at it? At the same time, I don't want her back in this house after she has gotten used to the idea of being allowed to do as she pleases all the time. I'm not going to be okay with her coming back here and having a negative influence on my other two children. So, when the time comes and she asks to come back, I have to consider how that will affect my kids. Sometimes it is better to do for the greater good than to do for just one, even if it is your kids. I'm sorry, but that is how I feel.
I agree with you. L
I agree with you.
L
I know what you mean. We
I know what you mean. We tried that approach with SD. We tried telling her to quit threatening to go live with BM every time she gets in trouble and doesn't get her way. It never worked...it's like that is her automatic defensive comeback. We have run out of consequences for her behavior...we took consequences to the extreme...so extreme in fact I was told we should have had child services called on us (which I did not agree with). Even extreme consequences didn't do any good. She is still doing whatever she wants, whenever she wants, with whomever (or is it whoever?) she wants event though she knows there will be consequences for her actions. I am confident in my ability as a parent, but she makes me feel like a failure.
The BM gives them the power.
The BM gives them the power. The BM could say, "no, you're not coming here to avoid your father's rules." (like she promised to)
Or, the BM can say "my angelic child isn't the problem (he's just a CHILD!!!!! :sick: - it's you and that biatch SM! I am taking you to court for custody and CS!"
(rolleyes)
L
I agree with you, but
I agree with you, but unfortunately they do. Our SD14 came home three days after her 14th birthday and announced she didn't like our house and was working with BM to go to court. And unfortunately, these kids know they have rights and that the judges will listen to them. DH told her nice try, you have no choice. She said Mom says I do. The following week we got served and hired attorneys who told us we would lose, since the courts favor the childs wishes and the BM's.
I'm starting to think that
I'm starting to think that SD15 and BM are chatting back and forth on yahoo and FB about SD15 going to live with BM. SD15 was told not to say anything to BM until DH could talk to her, but we knew she wouldn't listen, she never does. IMO this is something that should be discussed between the parents, the child should be left out of it. Yes, the child's wants should be acknowledged. Yes, the courts should take into account what the child wants. But when it comes right down to it, if the BM has proven multiple times to be a deadbeat mom that can't maintain a stable household, that information should come into play and have more weight than the fact that the child wants to live with BM.
That's exactly what happened
That's exactly what happened at my house. SS and BM planned it secretly in advance, then SS picked a fight with SO and stormed out.
This is the second time. There won't be a third.
L
Same here. She kept picking
Same here. She kept picking fights and DH said I can't parent you this way and dropped her off at her mom's. I am sure she will come back someday, but I hope not. It is generally pretty calm here now. I think SD and BM plotted this for months.
Yeah, I really get the
Yeah, I really get the feeling that that is what is going on. SD keeps going out of her way to break the rules and get into trouble so that we will send her away...that is from her mouth. DH and I feel the same way...we can't parent her when what we do doesn't work and we've tried EVERYTHING. BM's may not be the best place for SD to be, but I feel that if she is going to be persistent and keep disregarding our rules and disrespecting us virtually every chance she gets, then I am ready to put her butt on a plane and say bon voyage.
The first time, we got a call
The first time, we got a call roughly four weeks later - "please come and get him right now, he's out of control & I can't handle him, you were right, he was agressive with me and I re-dislocated my (joint). I should never have let him run here to avoid rules at your house!"
Dammit I was right in the middle of making jello. LOL
I had really started to get used to the lower key atmosphere in the house.
With SS back, the tension was palpable again. Around two months later, he stormed out again. And BM took him even though she said she wouldn't. This time SO is not going to take him back. He and BM wanted it this way now they can deal with it.
The silver lining is definitely the calmer environment in the house. I've been enjoying that.
L
Not always true. When SD was
Not always true. When SD was 15 she acted out so bad. When she turned 16, pretty much let her go live w/BM for 3mos on a trial basis. SD got worse, flunked 3classes,etc... By this point BM was promising SD a car, etc...SD was allowed to do anything. Our fear being she would get preggers, drop out, and probably start drugs (getting into the goth real heavy). DH and I went to court. Judge ruled in our favor for her to return to us, even though SD wanted to live w/BM---what teen wouldn't want to live w/BM who is a permissive parent. Judge saw that it was not in best interest of SD and had basically same concern we had. Knew DH and I would continue to act as a parent and get her through school, etc... Judges are getting smarter on this stuff and seeing that these Bioparents who let kids do whatever is not best for them.
Thank you! Tough love does
Thank you!
Tough love does not equal abandonment.
L
We live in a different
We live in a different country than BM, so she will be giving up the keys, the cell phone, etc, though I wouldn't be worried if she kept them because I'm pretty sure she would be able to just show up on her own...lol. BM and DH have joint custody with DH as the CP, but BM has never done visitations with SD on a regular basis...their time together has always been very sporadic and unorganized.
Our BM never paid a dime in
Our BM never paid a dime in CS when we took youngest SS when he was 17. She expected to continue to get her CS when she didn't even have him. Most of these BMs are just after money I'm sorry if someone comes in here and says other wise but my experience is the Courts don't enforce women to pay CS but go after the men to bleed them dry. I hope the best for you. We found that by sending SS back was well worth the money we didn't have because he was never parented and hubby didn't have the balls to parent him.
The courts don't go after any
The courts don't go after any NCPs, male or female, unless the CP is getting public assistance. Frankly I just think low income, lazy, unemployed, entitled, or vindictive BMs are more likely to pursue enforcement through the court, while independent or financially secure BMs are more likely to focus that energy on working & taking care of the children, leaving little time to jump through all the hoops it takes to get the courts to enforce CS when there's nothing in it for them (ie payback for welfare benefits.) I also think NCPs who have good careers and/or other people to support (i.e. new wife & children) are more likely to pay CS if they can rather than dodge it because they have something to lose. The fact that this is often men just speaks to the fact that although we've come a long way in terms of equal rights, in many families women are still the primary caretakers of children while men are usually the primary wage earner, leaving moms as CPs & dads as CS paying NCPs in divorce situations.
I listed 4 different types
I listed 4 different types (sorry that may not have been clear in my post.) Sounds like Gir falls into the "vindictive" category.
What I wanted to make clear was that the COURTS will not pursue anyone unless they owe the government money. In most cases it is the CP using the courts to pursue the NCP - NOT the courts own action.
Ive heard of situations (not
Ive heard of situations (not sure what its called or how exactly to do it, I guess just speaking with your lawyer) where the child would go live with the NCP who was way behind in child support, the NCP would have to pay every dime back before the CP (or who WAS the CP) would have to pay child support. OR I've also heard that the old CP was ordered to pay child support, but then person who was in back child support would still have to pay it back, so basically, the NCP would have to send back all the support checks and then some. And if she is really behind in CS, and sd is 15, your dh might never have to pay.
In many cases this happens
In many cases this happens because CP bioDads GIVE BMs this "pass", whereas this happens less often in reverse. I know A LOT of CP BMs, myself included, who have allowed years of CS non-payment to pass because I was too busy being a mom & taking care of my child and working to provide for him on my own rather than spend money on an attorney or expend all if the time and energy it takes to get the courts to enforce CS for a CP who is NOT on public assistance dealing with an NCP who is unemployed, even if the NCP is unemployed by CHOICE! A good attorney will warn you that you may be throwing good money after bad. This is what many CP Dads might be up against so they CHOOSE not to pursue it. In ADDITION to this, good old fashioned PRIDE causes some CPs (like me & my H) to say "I'm the BETTER parent because I can do it withOUT that loser's help!"
I won't give up & close my case like my H did though. As long as BS6's bio still has parental rights I'll take 1/2 of his $255 Social Security death benefits when dies of old age if I can get it!
Sorry you can't get the death
Sorry you can't get the death benefits. That is for the current spouse. You have to file a claim if there is not one. Then it is put in your childrens name and sent to you if they are under 18.
I hate the Social Security office. It is a red tape nightmare.
That's what we are hoping
That's what we are hoping for...BM will owe so much in back CS that we will end up not having to pay, at least for a while. BM is determined to stay unemployed, I believe, so we will end up paying her more that way. It's not that we don't want to make sure SD is taken care of financially, it's that we do not believe the money will be spent on SD...it will go towards booze, tattoos, and whatever other non-SD related activities BM fancies. BM is a lazy, irresponsible, unstable piece of crap as far as I'm concerned, but if SD15 is hellbent on getting out of her there isn't much we can do about it.
It may depend on what state
It may depend on what state you're in, but I know of two different cases where back support owed by an NCP did NOT cancel out a payment required by a new support order once the NCP became CP.
My exH owed $15k in back CS
My exH owed $15k in back CS when he got full custody of his daughter. The BM was ordered to pay CS and never did. Within a few years, BM owed $35k in back CS and exH still owed $15k in back CS. They would not cancel out or deduct the back CS he owed against the back CS that BM owed. In their eyes, this was 2 entirely different orders. This was in Arizona.
Interesting concept. Can't
Interesting concept.
Can't wait until DH goes to court for his cs modification in August. And he thinks not paying June/July was okay -- I don't like BM but I told him two wrongs don't make a right. Pay her & then at court the judge will decide "applicable credit". Needless to say, I'm not taking a vaca day to sit in court hallway again while decisions are made that I get to hear about in bits n pieces by a pissed off DH on the way home. Waste of my time totally. Its their game, their rules - I'm SM & owe nothing to no one their double spawn. }:)