Continuing to process thoughts on vacation situation with SS
At the risk of being accused of "complaining endlessly" by posting a 3rd time in as many months about vacation with my oldest SS25, SDIL and 2 SGDs, I am still processing how I feel and how I want to respond in the future. I previously posted about how resentful I was after DH and I rented a beach house and took them on vacation and DH and I had to either buy groceries and cook and clean up for the group or pay for all of us to go out to eat. Several things I've noticed since then concern me. First, I had mentioned SS25 in the description of a vacation pic I posted on FB (he was not in the pic) and it "tagged" him. Looking at the pic later, I noticed SS25's name was no longer in bold, indicating he had untagged himself. I wasn't sure what to make of this, but I decided I will NEVER mention SS25 or post a pic of him on my FB again. I deleted the sentence that referred to SS25 so his name no longer appeared there, since he obviously did not want to be tagged.
Then I looked at the couple dozen pics from OUR vacation SS25 posted in multiple posts on his social media and noticed all of them were of SS25, DIL and SGDs, and NONE of the other 5 of us on the trip--DH, our 2 DSs 12 and 18, DS18's gf and myself--were pictured. I mentioned this to my DH, who surprised me by responding immediately that SS25 must have wanted it to look like HE TOOK HIS FAMILY on vacation himself. (Instead of us paying $10K for the beach house and about $3K for food & all entertainment.) While DH's theory is probably right, I wondered if SS25 was also trying to hide that he even associated with us, as I can't help noticing that SS25 has MANY pics on social media of BM spending time with his family and even posted to wish her Happy Mother's Day (while no post for my DH on Father's Day.) To my knowledge, SS25 did not thank DH for the trip in any way. Of course, he barely speaks to me, so he didn't thank me. However, SDIL did text me after the trip and thank me for it, so I do give credit there.
Although I had already decided I would NEVER go to a beach trip with them again, the fact that we seem to have been intentionally "erased" from SS25's vacation (though we fully funded it) takes it to another level and makes me not want to go on vacation with them ever again. As ugly as it is to say it, and as hard as it is to accept, I'm afraid those things, along with the not helping and expecting us to pay for everything, all point to the fact we are just being used to pay for their vacation. My DH had said next year, we should do a cruise so we don't have to cook or clean up. The way I feel right now is that i want to disengage from this process totally. I usually am the one who plans and books EVERYTHING. I'm going to BACK AWAY. If DH decides he wants to pay for them again, he can do all the planning and coordinating. And I'll decide then if I'm going on vacation at all. It really, really sucks to think we spent so much of our hard-earned money and mean so little, but I guess the truth hurts. They say when people show you who they are, believe them, and I think that's the case here.
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My guess is that your SS25
My guess is that your SS25 doesn’t want BM to get upset by pictures of him on vacation with you and DH.
You are wise to refuse any more vacations with them, you and DH are being used.
Thank you, Tog, as I know you
Thank you, Tog, as I know you've dealt with PAS issues, too. I think you're right, and he's not just worrying about upsetting BM, but her whole "clan," which is on FB. I guess this shows just how strong a force it was (and still is.) Still, I appreciate your insight that you think we're being used. I don't want to believe that, but I don't know any other explanation for these things.
If he just didn't post stuff
If he just didn't post stuff in order to not upset the BM clan, it would be one thing. But his refusal to help pay or help clean or do anything like that tells me he feels entitled to take from DH without giving anything back.
I could see my SS not posting pictures in order to not upset BM, but he doesn't act entitled to whatever we do for him. So when he's with us, he acts like he enjoys the time, says please and thank you, helps where he can - even if he probably goes home and tells BM otherwise. Yours just acts like a user.
If i were you and history has shown the same shit continually
Happens and since dh refuses to address these issues, tell hubby he and skids can go in a cruise but you will go on a trip overseas alone to destress (thinking Paris maybe). Let him know firmly what you will not tolerate and since the same shit continues its a big firm NO!
Oh, I'd love to do all of
Oh, I'd love to do all of that, especially Paris! LOL! (That is a bit of a sore spot, since both SSs have been to Europe with BM, TWICE, and DH and I have never been, but hope to go someday.) I know my DH is in the middle because he wants a relationship with them, even a "shell," as mentioned below, and he also wants me with him. I'm still thinking of the best way to handle it, but I do know I won't be waiting on them hand and foot while I pay for it all on another vacation!
Never go on any vacation with them again
Unless SS is paying for it. You know that not going to happen.
Oh, gosh, no, that would
Oh, gosh, no, that would never happen!! lol.
There is no way in hell I
There is no way in hell I would ever fund them again. Thousands of dollars and be treated rudely so it can "appear" like, maybe, kind of there is a relationship between father and son?
F NO
Since there was mention of
Since there was mention of the relationship with SSs being based on money, I'll hijack my own thread to update on the situation with youngest SS23--he's the one who's no-contact and got married without telling DH and that BM emailed DH about a month ago asking if DH would buy SS23 a new laptop so he can go back to college taking online courses. DH responded to BM to have SS23 contact him to discuss it. So DH finally received a text from SS23 (I'm assuming BM bugged him until he did it.) The text said BM said DH would buy him a new laptop and attached a link to the one he wants ($800)--that's how they "discuss" things! ha ha ha! My DH asked me to order it and I asked where he wanted it shipped, and he said to our house, so he can have SS23 come get it so he can visit with SS23 (he lives 2 hours away in the same town as BM where SSs grew up.) I'm trying to decide if I'm going to be available for this forced "visit." I'm surely NOT going to make a big spread to treat SS23 like royalty for gracing us with his presence to get his free laptop compliments of us just because DH forced him to.
Can I send a link for an $800
Can I send a link for an $800 laptop? I'll even be nice when i come get it (bet he makes good ole dad drop it off somewhere, probably bm).
When my SS was alienated, he
When my SS was alienated, he started demanding stuff from our house: his Xbox, and all kinds of stuff DH wasn't going to give him. He was almost 16. DH told him he was welcome to come over and take anything from his room (small stuff), but he wouldn't get anything if he didn't come over. BM kept urging him to just give him the stuff, telling DH how to approach SS ("maybe you could meet him outside with the dog") and DH just insisted if he wanted his stuff, he had to come over.
So he came over. He was his usual self, he stayed about 2 hours, opened the Christmas gifts DH had gotten him, gave DH a hug, said he loved him and left. We saw him again about 2 weeks later, and then he disappeared again for 2.5 years. He never even did ask about the xbox and took very little from his room.
Your DH has started the right process by having SS23 come over, but it can't be just - "hey son, I'll buy you things if you come over," it has to be with your DH letting him know this won't continue as it is. "I've bought you this laptop, but I won't be continuing to buy things if you refuse to have a relationship with me."
I know he won't do that, and it makes him weak in his sons' eyes. How can they respect a father who lets them treat him this way? They can't. My SS respects DH, he doesn't mistreat him anymore, and only did before when he was under BM's alienating gaze. Because DH has never allowed it. He said at one point, "I'm not letting anyone abuse me anymore, not even my son."
All you can do is refuse to help him do this. Let him order his own damn computer.
Wow! Interesting story about
Wow! Interesting story about your SS's "PAS Journey!" I really WISH my DH could tell both SSs that. However, I can't see it. To be a lawyer, he's a very non-confrontational guy! lol! I think he's afraid if he was direct with both of them, he'd never see or hear from them again, and I think that's a valid fear. Now, I see what you're saying--a lot of people would say to themselves if saying that to them would make their kids completely stop all contact with them, there was no relationship to begin with and no loss. But my DH sees it as any relationship at all is better than none, so he's willing to go along. Perhaps someday he'll change his mind. And you're right. I need to back wayyyyy out from this point on and let DH do what he's going to do.
So glad my Dh has not
So glad my Dh has not capitulated to his entitled POS son and his GF. They have had hissy fits when Dh didn’t “make me behave”.
They could not believe that they could not use my vacation home (that I bought years before I met Dh) after their hideous home invasion.
The last text Dh received was in April. There have been 2 phone calls since then - one for 2 minutes and one for 6 minutes. I don’t think he’s seen his grandson (3) in months. I wonder if he will even meet the kid on the way.
But I don’t think DH cares about the situation. He spent decades trying to help SS. I know he still cares for SS, but he is not the type to let himself be bullied.
I remember you posting about
I remember you posting about that! It was incredibly rude the way they treated your home like they owned it and invaded your private space. I hope my DH wisens up someday. Perhaps he will, but I seriously doubt it.
I think it's always best to
I think it's always best to draw a boundary for future events while you and your SO are still nursing fresh wounds. Don't wait for time to smooth the raw edges or revisionist history to kick in. Serve notice NOW. 13k indeed!
I put in 18 years before I stepped back; you've put in over 20, and maybe an aspect that gets overlooked is that this IS mistreatment, and it HURTS. Yes we're adults, and yes, skids are children who perhaps know no better or are under BM's influence. Still, our pain should matter to our SOs. Have you ever shared yours with your DH?
All these years later, my DH cites MY mistreatment as his reason for dropping the rope on his adult kids. He could never stand up for himself, and he certainly never defended me in real time, but he's my champion now. Maybe it had something to do with pride, but I don't recall ever expressing pain or hurt to my DH over the years. Oh, I bi!ched and nagged, but never broke it down to PAIN until after he noticed I had disengaged. Only then did I feel strong enough and justified enough to say something like "They don't want me; they want YOU, and I'm tired of trying and being HURT over and over for my efforts." Based on results, I should have said so years ago!
What do you think your DH would do if you positioned yourself more sympathetically and told him how much pain his kids have caused you? "I love you babe, but your kids don't like me, and I'm tired of being hurt by them. It's been years of snubs, being ignored, left out, and used. They hurt me every time we're together, and my heart just can't take it anymore so I'm done." What is the worst that could happen if you share your truth with him? You're all adults now, so no need for pretense or continuing to offer yourself up for abuse. Maybe it's time to accept What Is, stop sacrificing yourself, and devote resources to things that make you happy instead of unhappy.