Do kids ever see HCBM as the problem?
So, if you read my last blog you know that BM tried to stir up drama about DH taking the kids driving. Fast forward to this weekend and one Skid shows up and says to DH, "aren't you going to take us driving, Dad? That's part of parenting, Dad!" And he kept going on and on until DH got mad at him. Later, DH talked to both skids. He told them that their mother did not dictate what goes on in our house, that it wasn't any of her business what went on in our house, and he was sick of both of them causing drama by reporting everything back to BM. He told me he got really angry with them and they both cried (for context, they are almost 16, so not babies and old enough to realize the role they play in all this by reporting everything back to BM).
I'm sure DH will hear about this or get a letter from a lawyer saying the kids don't want to be around him. So, my question for the SMs of adult children is, do they ever realize who the manipulative parent is or will they just see DH as the villain that BM always portrayed him to be? For further context, up until now, he has mostly ignored the drama and not discussed it with skids, at all. He did tell one skid that he needed to stop causing drama with BM several years ago when it was a constant drama-fest because BM was putting on a full court press with alienation. But now, BM has a new boyfriend, so she needs skids to come to our house EOWE, so she can go away with him, so she treads lightly when it comes to skids not wanting to be at our house.
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My SS is 21 and he hasn't
My SS is 21 and he hasn't figured it out yet. At this point, he's so enmeshed with BM and dependent on her in every way, I don't think he particularly wants to figure it out.
Your DH did the right thing, he just should have set the limit sooner instead of letting them argue and go on and on.
One SS (overly dramatic SS)
One SS (overly dramatic SS) is totally enmeshed and now the other is becoming more enmeshed. The second one relies on BM to make problems go away in other parts of his life (switching teachers, getting special sports privileges, etc), so he's now less independent of her than he used to be. They both stayed with us for a week, BM contacted overly dramatic SS multiple times a day ("Are you okay?!l) and she didn't contact the second one at all...until the end of the week when she told them she was away and wouldn't be home until late into the evening when DH was bringing them back, so they'd have to stay with (former) step-brother until she and (former) step-dad got home.
It's sad really, but both will be dependent upon her in different ways, which serves her borderline needs, but not theirs.
My SDs are 26, 24 and yes,
My SDs are 26, 24 and yes, they are beginning to see through NPD BM's manipulations. We took them out to dinner in July, and we were talking a bit about the past. I said to them that DH had felt a bit threatened when NPD took up with their step Dad, because the SDs seemed to think the sun shone out of his rear. SD26 said "well, yes, because BM told us what to feel". My jaw dropped to the floor at this bit of insight. They hate BM's husband now! If they can see this - maybe they can also see that she decreed that they would both hate me? One can but hope.
They say a lot of alienated
They say a lot of alienated kids do figure it out, when their brains finish maturing in their late 20s.
DH had to go to therapy with
DH had to go to therapy with overly dramatic SS after the last mediation (BM insisted upon it). At their first session SS said, "I talk to mom about my relationship with you and she says it's bad." DH said the therapist had a noticeable reaction. After that session, BM sent DH a message saying "how dare you lie" at the therapy session. She said that overly dramatic SS "volunteered" information about the session. Shortly thereafter, she stopped taking SS to therapy, which DH only found out because he went to another session with SS and the therapist commented on it.
I don't think SS realized what he had said or that his mother telling him his relationship with DH was "bad" was actually bad. We'll see if he wises up, but I'm not hopeful.
My SKs are in their 50's
My 3 SKs are all in their 50's. The late BM was a volatile, unreliable person who caused untold misery here. Once she had a new BF who didnt get along with the kids, they all moved in here full-time.
They have never come right out and said it but I can tell they know the truth. Each of them had to cope with her temper and meltdowns as adults. I have heard comments like, "Dad never missed a weekend. He never made excuses". In contrast, once the SKs lived here, I dont recall BM taking them one weekend and when we wanted to go away for a weekend, DH had to pay her to take her own kids. I will say she mellowed with age and was a doting, if volatile, grandma.
My personal observation from not only them but my 2 kids is that children have laser-like perception into the family dynamics, especially once they are adults. My own kids saw my late deadbeat dad ex with crystal clarity altho I never said a word against him. All our kids are embarrassingly aware of our faults. Lol.
Even when/if they see it, it
Even when/if they see it, it doesn't necessarily change anything.
My SD30 knows what her mother is, and although it gives her some insight on the past, it hasn't really changed the dynamic.
Yes, exactly. It's really
Yes, exactly. It's really hard to free yourself from enmeshment with a sick mother, and many never do it - or if they do, it doesn't happen until they are much older.
Not yet
I have 3 skids, SD31, SS28 and SD26 and they were raised to be highly dependent on BM (read infantilized). None of them are dependent, functioning adults and it is sad to watch. Your DH pointing out BM manipulative behavior and skids consequent reaction to it sounds like they recognize that their behaviour was unacceptable and that may start their awakening. Unfortunately HCBM's generally react badly to their control being threatened, so more drama may be in your future.
I'm sure there will be more
I'm sure there will be more drama. I told DH that he needs to ignore any and all future messages because I don't want the drama in my house, anymore. I'm so sick of BM.
Don't allow the bm to switch
Don't allow the bm to switch up visitation on her whim. Aren't thr skids old enough to left alone for a few hours ib her home? I can't believe the ss threw the parenting card knowing what bm does
My sd’s are now 26.5 and almost 16 and had cut off
Contact with their dad for over 5.5 yrs over lies and bullshi* their mum made about their dad and me which they know and admitted she lied about but they're so brainwashed by bio mum that they basically excused it and told daddy to get over all the crazy inexcusable psychotic bullshi* she pulls.
ss is 23 and has lived with my husband since the divorce over 12 yrs ago where bio mum told a judge she couldn't be bothered to care for all 3 kids who were minors at the time (real winner of a mum there!!)
when sd's repeatedly report back to bio mum and stepdad everything you could imagine, what we did, where we went, what we wore, what we said etc, there is no respect of our privacy and boundaries that the next time we met them they would within seconds tell daddy what they told mummy and stepdad about us and their mum and stepdads commentary and response.
i was sick and tired of this and my balless husband's inability to ensure sd's stop this nonsense. For starters, we do not care or take any concerns over bio mum and stepdad as they're irrelevant to us. So early last year my husband told off eldest sd how disrespectful she and her sister were to me and our 2 young kids together. Prior to that she called up her dad one day with some manipulative bullshi* sob story how hubby abandoned them for me and to have 2 young kids with me but when at family events hypocritically act like sisters of the year to my kids.
yeah, my kids aren't gonna be used as manipulative pawns in the bullcrap!! I refuse to attend any events skids will be at especially sd's and this is non negotiable. When sd's have no contact with us, there is nothing to report to bio mum.
my husband still had this fantasy of one big happy family, its not possible with skids because of their behaviour. This is my hard stance i have had to take. Even now the sd's maintain barely any contact with their dad. Yet they guilt daddy for having a more loving relationship with me and our 2 kids who actively make an effort.
i'm stuck overseas with my 2 kids away from my husband since march last yr due to international border closures. My 4 & 5 yr old son and daughter everyday ask to video call daddy. Compare that to sd almost 16 and sd26.5 no contact, you can't guilt daddy for caring about us more.
good relationships are dependent on the effort you make. To expect they exist purely because of blood relations is ridiculous
Our situations are similar.
Our situations are similar. Right now, both SSs like being around DD (their half-sister), but BM has already tried to use her as a pawn in her games and I lost.my.mind. I told DH I would drive to BM's house and let her have it if she ever tried to use my daughter as a weapon against us...or even mentioned my daughter at all.
DH and I plan to move once skids finish high school, so I'm sure the abandonment claims will come shortly thereafter. They can't claim that DH left the family, though. BM kicked him out when she met husband #2...now ex-husband #2. BM told overly dramatic SS that DH "caused the divorce", but now BM has gotten divorced a second time...because she met current boyfriend (future husband #3?), so it should be obvious why the divorce happened...both times.
Skids like this have a habit of turning a blind eye and
Singing their mum praises. Biomum here married the week divorce papers were finalised and had played poor pity me i'm a single mum card.
all the while had been having an affair with current hubby behind my husbands back and then marries affair guy while skids were in school. Waits for them to come home and casually says she got married and they have a new daddy. Sd's take stepdad as their real dad and he kicked them out of his house asap. Its absolutely nuts!!
then everytime sd's are singing biomum and stepdad praises like their parents of the yr, my husband is just fuming inside but he keeps his cool and is non responsive because they are not our family or of our concern.
biomum even had eldest sd contact their dad 5.5 yrs after no contact to so called reconnect and brainwashed eldest sd is non stop "see dad bio mum is good she's not as bad as everyone says" then had sd the same day tell dad that bio mums marriage is on the rocks and probably won't last long "oh but don't forget you owe her a home, she said you promised her one after divorce was finalised but she doesn't want stepdad to get any of it so instead of transferring it to biomums name, she wants you to transfer it into us skids name ok"
my jaws dropped at that one!! The nerve of them and the fact they have no shame. These hcgubm and their kids are real piece of work sometimes and you need to protect yourself in advance and not wait for the absolute shi*show when your spouse dies and your left with a mess
Unfortunately I don’t think it matters
Unfortunately I don't think it matters if they see it or not, and even if they do, it could be short-lived. SD recently realized a BIG lie that BM told (nothing to do with DH but something that really impacts SD), she was angry when she found out, she was screaming BM down on the phone. A few months later and all of it is forgotten and she's back to believing everything BM says. She doesn't want to think that her mother would intentionally do things like that, even when it's happened, even with the outcomes impacting her like they have.
I can only see from some of the other posters on here, like Aniki, she and her DH have a good relationship with her skids, they fall in and out with their BM but they always end up falling back in.
I used to say to DH, someday SD and SS will understand when the lies BM tells affect their lives and other relationships, but I don't know if that's really the case anymore. They seem to have permanent blinders on for mommy deaerst's behavior and stand up for her even when it negatively impacts them.
Unfortunately, I think that's
Unfortunately, I think that's the case for us, too. Right now, BM forces her drama into our home as well and honestly, it's exhausting.
Both my SD's know their mom
Both my SD's know their mom is high conflict and has issues. but they both love her too.. They always did see their mom as having conflicts with "everyone".. they saw her broken promises and while they have resentment for it.. she is still their mom..
But, that doesn't mean they hate their dad or me... they are able to have relationships with us all on their own terms.. now easier as they are adults.
In my situation, BM has a lot
In my situation, BM has a lot of other conflicts with others, but skids always present it as one-sided. For example, a teacher BM had a conflict with was "mean" or someone else BM has a confict with is "lying". Both Skids have developed BM's victim complex, which drives me nuts.
I think they only begin to
I think they only begin to see it when it switches from HCBM to just plain Mom trying to control their lives. It isn't as real to the kids when it's Mom ordering Dad around, but when they adult out and it becomes Mom ordering them around? that's when I've seen the kids wise up.
I would have to say that, yes
I would have to say that, yes, some of them do figure it out. All three of my skids, who came to live full time with DH and me way back in 2012, have slowly figured it out. And, honestly? I would have NEVER thought they would. My situation is a little different than most, since the day that DH got custody, the Beast dropped out of their lives for many years. As they all left our house for college, she reached out to two of the three. Both met with her and decided that she was/is nuts and they want nothing to do with her.
Hang in there, it just may work out in the end :-)
Realizing it and doing
Realizing it and doing anything about it are two different things.
I'm much more mindful now that I'm a SM about my mom's actions (and as an adult, her shortcomings), but that hasn't made a huge difference in my relationship with my dad. He's still a bit at arm's length, and I honestly am not sure why. I'm still close with my mom, probably to my own detriment, but I'm not willing yet (or if ever) to have a distant relationship with both my parents. I'm not saying my response is healthy, but until I can find a therapist to really dig into this stuff and help me sort it out (because alone, I just sorta recognize it and leave it alone), I'm probably always going to have some form of dysfunctional relationship with my parents.
Now, looking at the boys, they see ET's BS, but I'm not sure what that will shake out to in the future. OSS saw it pretty early. YSS got hit in the face with it when OSS left for college. I think OSS has, very similar to me, figured out how to see the crazy but disengage from it emotionally. YSS still seems pretty hot about it all, but he also got the same treatment from ET as my younger siblings did from our mom (i.e. got tired of parenting/living a certain way that was impeded by kids, so left them with their father to finish raising).
The part that people don't like to acknowledge is that both parents can lose in these situations. Realizing a HCBM is a HCBM doesn't mean a kid automatically thinks Dad is the greatest person alive. If anything, it just makes kids look at both parents more critically. It shouldn't surprise anyone that kids who deal with this level of dysfunction, even if one parent is functional, may one day just throw the baby out with the bath water. It's easier that way.
Thank you, this is a good
Thank you, this is a good perspective. I do think that skids will maybe realize that HCBM is a problem, but I don't think realizing that will change what they believe about DH. They have been too brainwashed at this point. They regularly tell DH he is lying, when the only "evidence" they have of that is BM's word...and it's not just that they claim he is lying with regard to BM, it's other things.
I also think that DH has a similar relationship with his mom. In my view, MIL was emotionally abusive and neglectful as a parent and DH still has a lot of issues with feeling not good enough and trying to do things that he thinks will make people like him, but she's still his mom, so he ignores most of it. I think it's a survival mechanism, honestly, because his only other option is to totally cut her off. She did something egregious and he said to her that he needed an apology from her to move on and she still wouldn't apologize. She just told him he needed to learn to let things go. It didn't impact DH's relationship with his Dad because his parents never divorced (and DH's dad fed MIL's need to feel important by making enough money for her to have a fancy lifestyle that she viewed as the envy of all), but he still oscillates between seeing his mother for who she is and trying to please her by doing nice things for her. It never works, she always has to talk about the one thing his brother did in 3 years as opposed to the 20 things DH did in a year, because she is chasing the affection of her children who have distanced themselves from her. It's so weird to watch someone else's family dysfunction play out. MIL pouts and practically cries for attention when DH's distant (both physically and emotionally) sister rolls into town for one week a year. And we're all supposed to drop everything, too.
Killjoy is so lacking in
Killjoy is so lacking in empathy, she doesn't care what Satan does to other people, but when Satan starts doing stuff to her, she will avoid her.