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"And then what?"

WalkOnBy's picture

“And then what?”

This was the question that DH heard over and over again last night in our therapy session. While there was a lot to cover between the fallout from The List of Doom (TLOD) and the discussion about me moving out, we decided to start with ASS and his reaction to TLOD. Therapist asked how ASS was doing with TLOD. DH handed her a copy of TLOD – the one with ASS’s “eat a dick” connotations. Therapist just looked at it and said, “hmmm. So you gave him what he wanted and it still wasn’t enough.”

She then had a discussion with DH about how he has done everything that he can with ASS and implored him to have ASS evaluated. She said that she believes there is some mental illness brewing and she then went on to tell us about how the psychiatric community is hesitant to diagnose a personality disorder in a person under the age of 21. She told us that, in her opinion, ASS is ODD at the least and likely BPD. DH didn’t understand the differences in the two or why the community is hesitant to diagnose until age 21, so she explained it all to him. She also said that it’s certainly possible for one to have more than one personality disorder because they are frequently enmeshed.

DH began to fret about what will happen if ASS runs away when he turns 18. Therapist said, “let’s say he does. And then what?” DH talked about how ASS would be out on the streets and he wondered how he would survive. Therapist said, “by his own choice, DH. And then what?” Blah blah blah minimum wage job, blah blah blah never make anything of himself, blah blah blah learn the hard way. “And, then what? At what point are you going to make this kid take responsibility for his own actions? You get to live your life and be happy, DH.”

The conversation then shifted to the separate residences issue. Therapist asked me how I felt about it and I told her. She then asked DH why he brought it up. Blah blah blah at my wit’s end, blah blah blah gotta raise these kids, blah blah blah. Therapist stopped him in his tracks and said, “but if those things are true, why aren’t you demanding change from your children, too? Why is it all on WOB?” She also talked to him about what life would look like if I lived somewhere else, how and where he thought the two of us would spend time together, and that it wouldn’t solve anything anyway. DH said that “at least the kids would be happier” and that’s where I kinda lost it a little bit. So, everyone gets to be happy but your wife? Oh, ok, then.

Therapist said, “DH, I bet you don’t even realize that you exclude your wife from every aspect. You talk with the kids outside of her presence, you talk with her outside of their presence, you’re trying to make everyone happy and all you’re doing is making everyone miserable. When are you going to sit everyone down and tell them how it’s gonna be? This is my wife and I love her, you guys are my kids and I love you. You are all putting me in a shitty spot and it needs to stop.”

And that’s the crux of it all, really. DH preaches family and unity but does nothing to encourage that. In fact, he creates camps and then doesn’t understand why things don’t work out?

We ended a very long session with a brief discussion about how the skids are “afraid” of me and what bullshit that is. I actually told DH that the skids need to sack up a little bit and stop acting like tiny babies. Not sure he liked that, but it is what it is.

Therapist wants to see us next week, but DH is out of town and I will be in my own little piece of heaven hotel room. Still trying to decide if I will go see her on my own.

So, that's the serious update. I have a funny update, too. That one's coming up in a few minutes.

Comments

WalkOnBy's picture

It is the crux but I don't know if he will actually do it. He should, though, because I know from my own kids that the minute Asshat told them "SM is my wife, get on board or don't, but getting on board will be a lot easier for you guys" is the minute my kids stopped being assholes to her when they were little.

And, I completely own my own part in the "this is how it's gonna be" conversation. There are things I could do to improve the tension level in the household, but I don't because I get treated like a piece of shit on their shoes.

WalkOnBy's picture

how do I post a picture on here? I really think the picture is what is so funny about it!!

WalkOnBy's picture

do you know how I can do it???

Does anyone know? It really needs the photo to do it justice.

Tuff Noogies's picture

wob- imgur.com will let u upload one, and gives various types of links you could copy/paste for us to click on.

Tuff Noogies's picture

ok. going to find a corner to sob in, curled up in fetal position....

on a serious note, i dont think kaos would do this, he doesnt have the headspace for large words or concepts.

WalkOnBy's picture

While I see why you're saying that this is just normal teenaged shit, it's not. There is much of that for sure, which is why the profession is so hesitant to diagnose until they turn 21, but trust me, there is waaaaaay more going on here than just your typical asshole kid.

WalkOnBy's picture

oh, completely agree that it's DH who needs a good ass kicking. I have been pushing for ASS to be evaluated (again) for a few years now. I do recognize that DH is running out of time since ASS turns 18 in March.

The last two times ASS has seen a therapist, he has chosen to sit there with his arms folded and say nothing for 45 minutes at a time.

thinkthrice's picture

Sorry, I'm old school. This kid has had LOB since toddlerhood (Lack of Belt). And THAT is why he's such an entitled prick. His bioparents had NO expectations of him, tip toed around him and had PITY for him as a poooooooooor, piiiiiiiitiful child of diiiivooooooorrrrrrce. (TM) Instead of telling him to buck up at an early age, be given meaningful responsibility and be held to a set of standards.

Funny, we never had these problems back at the turn of the LAST century, where expectations and discipline were de rigueur.

Why there are photos of children during the Great Depression enjoying a turnip meal for Christmas dinner with ZERO look of disappointment on their faces. They were glad to have it. Today's kids have no idea what deprivation is and are basically treated as royal pets from birth onward and THAT is what is Fing them up. JMO.

WTF...REALLY's picture

^^^YES!!!!!

I have two COD and guess what? They are very productive, humble, kind people. No cratering was done to them.

BM has been saying to SD for 6 years now - you need therapy, your a child of divorce, you are messed up because of it. So SD feels messed up and acts messed up.

What ever expectations you set for your kids - they will meet them! Every time!!!

He is 17 - the ship has sailed. SS will need to grow up in his early adult years, out in the world.

WalkOnBy's picture

Yup - my kids were 7, 4 and 4 when Asshat moved out. They are now 24, 20 and 20. I NEVER let them pull the COD card. They had rules, curfews, chores and expectations. When they didn't do what they were supposed to do, they lost privileges.

My daughter graduated from one of the best universities in the country, has a job, a husband, health insurance and a mortgage. She is kind, respectful, caring and giving.

The boys are juniors in college - one at the same university that his sister attended and the other at the other Big Ten School in my state Smile While RockStar is full of himself, he is kind, generous, funny, respectful. Just ask him - lol! The Thinker was my trouble kid - ADHD like you have never seen, and always pushed the envelope in terms of his behavior. He is now a kind, loving, respectful kid who will go to medical school.

If you expect your kids or skids to never be able to function, they won't. If you set the bar that low, they will never learn to limbo.

WTF...REALLY's picture

I have two very well spoken kids. My 22 year old daughter is a published scientist and is going to London next month for the Bill and Melinda Gates Malaria Conference. My DS15 has a 4.125 GPA and is president of the film club. He is already visiting film schools.

Hubby is just trying to help SD to get a 3.0 or above and not smoke pot. Meh.

Tuff Noogies's picture

well done, awesome therapist. he's got a lot to think about. THEN maybe he'll see his need to DO something about it!

Monchichi's picture

:jawdrop: I just can't. So until your husband leaves this earthly planet he wants to baby his children and "raise them"?

over step's picture

I think my DH should have set me and puke(sd15) down together and had that talk. He talks to me without puke and puke without me but telling her and I pretty much the same thing or we are telling him to tell that to the other person. I feel like if something is bothering him that Puke and I are doing then we both need to hear it from him at the same time.

For me it would give me a clear picture of what he needs from both of us and I would be more inclined to do it.

WalkOnBy's picture

Yes - I totally agree. That way, everyone hears the same message at the same time and there is no "he said, she said" bullshit.

thisisnotmocking's picture

I remember hearing about the talks that X would have with his daughter.

I never heard one, though. I never saw anything develop from these talks.

I don't believe they really happened. Or if they did, they were very twisted and whiney.

thinkthrice's picture

I know how these "talks" go:

DH to skid (in high pitched baby voice): "Hoooonneeeeeeyyyy I know that SM is demanding, but we've all got to tryyyyyy haaaarder"

skid to DH: "I want it to go back to the way it was, just you and me dadddddyyyyyyy."

DH to skid: "Weeeeeeelll hooooonneeeey, we can't do that; I know (insert atrocious behaviour on the part of the skid e.x. smearing feces on SM, setting dog's tail on fire) wouldn't bother MEEEEE personally, but it does tend to upset SM just a weeeeee bit so try and be a little bit better, won't you for daddykins saaaaaake?"

skid to DH (with fingers crossed behind back): "oh yeeeesss daaaaaaddddy for you I promise I will and can you make SM proooomise that she will be nice to me as she really is ever so wicked to me?"

DH to skid: "Oh yes, honey babe, I certainly will!!!"

(and of course this is immaterial to gender; I don't know about you but Chef talked this way to his SONS as well as Dominatrix/SD)

DaizyDuke's picture

I totally agree with what your DH is saying. Unfortunately you and ASS are an awful lot alike. He wants what he wants and you want what you want and you are in each other's way of what you want and your DH is monkey in the middle, and I'm not even going to say that he's trying to make both of you happy because I think even HE knows that's never going to happen. I think he is bare minimum trying to make sure you both survive.. because well like I said you are both bull headed and don't want to give the "win" to the other team.

I also agree with what Tommar said above... even if you "win" this round and SS moves out the minute he turns 18? every failure, heartache, stress, road bump.. EVERYTHING DH will see as YOUR fault. I almost think I worry about your DH more than I worry about ASS. To me your DH seems ready to explode... like he just can't be that monkey anymore.

WalkOnBy's picture

I am not bull headed - in MY world, things like phones and computers are luxuries to be earned. You don't earn them? You don't have them. I certainly don't think you are saying to just give him back his stuff after all the shit he has pulled, are you???

Don't forget, Daizy, ASS is the one who told Therapist and DH that if he only had a list of what our expectations of him were, his life would be so much less stressful. He would know exactly what was required of him in order for him to keep his stuff.

DH gave him exactly what he asked for. ASS didn't really want that, after all. I was not the least bit surprised. For ASS, it's all about (not) submitting to authority, just like his mother. I know you know that whole story from way back when.

And, trust me. I don't speak to ASS. I don't acknowledge his presence. I am far from in his way.

WTF...REALLY's picture

Because of last week and this week with SD and BM - I NEED SD TO MOVE OUT AT 18. And I have come to terms with "I don't care what SD thinks of me later on"

When you try so hard - only to have the same insanity perpetuating itself - well....some times you just gotta call uncle.

I think WOB just wants the right to have a peaceful life. (not trying to speak for her, and maybe I am projecting my circumstance, but it's what I am reading..and feeling)

WalkOnBy's picture

Yep - that's all I want. A nice peaceful life. I am married to my husband, not his kids, and I don't see the need for everyone to sit around and sing Kumbaya. I DO see the need to all be able to live under the same roof.

Just this morning, I reminded DH about something for ASS. He had forgotten. I said, "see, you would lose your everloving shit if I moved out of here. You wouldn't have ANY idea what would need to happen."

He gave me a kiss and said, "oh, I know it."

I can live each day knowing that I am providing a home for skids who hate me. That I make sure there is food in the house, dinner on the table almost every night, clothes on their backs and stuff in their bedrooms. All for people who hate me.

I really don't care what they think about me - now or later. That's just how I roll.

WTF...REALLY's picture

Yup - the providing thing pisses me off.

I help to provide for a kid that is not mine. The BM gives no CS, but thinks she should rip us apart to SD every chance she gets. Who the fuck does that???? Does not provide but rips apart the people who do???

BM told SD she will be taking hubby back to court to try to get visitation. I told hubby - "bring it on! And you better ask for CS this time, or I am leaving your ass!"

He agreed. He better fallow thru. An I would love for her BM to get visitation back - I miss my breaks! Now if she could only stay in a home for more than 1 month.