Beneficiary drama, part 2. I think I am being more than fair, generous even. DH disagrees. What do you think?
Prior to our marriage in May, DH agreed in writing to sign all the spousal consents forms needed to keep my beneficiaries the same. Now that we are married, he is refusing. I am livid but have tried really hard to compromise with him.
Initially I was going to keep everything as it was prior to our marriage, which means my kids would get everything I have, period. I have reluctantly agreed to split 401k, pension benefits, cash and all assets evenly amongst DH, my kids (2 bio and 1 adopted) and my nephew. That is 5 ways.
I also have a rather large life insurance policy that was purchased long ago for my kids. Now that my nephew has come to live with us, I decided it would be fair to include him as he has no parents. DH feels if my nephew is included, skids should be included too. I really think it is different since his kids still have two parents and my nephew has none (he does have a grandpa though), but I agreed to include them at a much smaller percentage. My adopted daughter (former step) also is included. Right now the proposed breakdown is 30% to each of my bios, 15% to my adopted daughter (because she still has her BM and BM's family), 15% to my nephew (because he has his grandpa) and 5% to each skid (because they still have TWO parents).
I also agreed we can revisit all of this when all the kids are grown to see if this is still the best allocation at that time.
DH still won't budge. I am worried we are going to have the shortest marriage ever because if DH doesn't knock it off I have no problem getting divorced and just shacking up again. We did it for six years, we can do it again if necessary.
So what do you all think? I need an outside perspective before I wind up at the courthouse.
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I wouldn't give in.. why
I wouldn't give in.. why should he take away what you have set aside for your kids? Is he putting your kids on his life insurance and retirement plans?
What kind of split is he proposing?
DH has no retirement plans.
DH has no retirement plans. He owns his own company, but it does not have a lot of assets.
He thinks it should all go to him and I should trust him to divy it up to all the kids. No way will that happen.
I hate to say it but I have
I hate to say it but I have noticed that some posters, not all seem biased towards women.
However, I would not say it is so many as to classify the entire board that way. It's not even a majority, just some. I have had my ass handed to me a couple of times from people who don't like my kids come first attitude.
I think most of those people just eventually quite commenting on certain blogs when they realize the poster is not going to change their outlook.
DH says it feels to him like
DH says it feels to him like I am saying I care more about what happens to my kids and nephew than I care about what happens to his kids.
I know some here would say Yeah and so what, but I really do care for the skids. I just feel that since they would still have two parents available to inherit from, it's not fair to my kids if they get equal shares.
That is the same reason my adopted daughter and my nephew get a smaller share than my bio kids. Adopted daughter was a former step whose BM is still alive and with whom she sort of has a relationship. While it's hard to imagine AD's BM will have anything to leave her, it's possible.
My nephew has no parents but he does have a grandpa (my former stepdad) who will likely leave him whatever he has when he goes. So my nephew has a smaller share than my biokids.
I really did try to be very fair about it all.
Maybe but really I think DH
Maybe but really I think DH will eventually have something. DH is not lazy. His business was hit hard when the economy tanked and he is recovering but slowly. It didn't help that he had to have a couple of surgeries in there too.
I believe that DH will eventually get on the right track, especially if he starts taking a little advice regarding his finances. We'll see.
You know, I haven't asked him
You know, I haven't asked him that! I should and see what he says.
So, how much is BM leaving
So, how much is BM leaving for YOUR bios? How much is HE leaving for your bios?
It is a stupid, greedy position he holds. Also, to agree beforehand and not now? Sounds like he feels he has you over a barrel. That's a horrible way to start a marriage.
I do agree that the skids
I do agree that the skids should not be included as they already have 2 parents who can make them beneficiaries on their policies and assets, however I do think that it is kind of unfair to make your DH and your kids split assets 5 ways if something was to happen to you. In most marriages everything that is left goes to the surviving spouse. My dad passed away when I was young and although I got social security from it, everything else went to my mother. I never once felt entitled to anything left behind. To make your DH split it with the kids only puts them on the same level and your DH which is not fair. He is your life partner that you decided to share everything with, not a life partner that only gets a 25% share of your life.
Just my opinion anyway.
ETA: I just went and read most of what was in your first blog post. I didn't realize these were your kids and not DH's. I thought they were both your bios. So with that, I retract some of my statement and think that your kids can certainly get something but I still stand by the idea that its not fair to put your DH and your kids on the same level playing field.
I respect your opinion but we
I respect your opinion but we have separate finances and always have. I want to make sure my kids are provided for, especially now while they are all still young.
I do think there may come a time when the kids are older that it might be appropriate to change how things are divvied up.
No he doesn't. He owns the
No he doesn't. He owns the house we live in and has his own company, but the house is still upside down from the bubble and the company doesn't have many assets. I definitely have way more skin in the game financially.
Wow! I thought you all got
Wow! I thought you all got the straight before the wedding!! What do you mean he agreed in writing?
We did a pre nup but
We did a pre nup but unfortunately it really can't regulate life insurance policies, 401k plans or pension plans. It binds him but not the plans. The plans go by their own rules, which say they need the spousal consent form. He agreed in the pre nup to sign them, but now he won't. Very annoying!
I will if I have to but I am
I will if I have to but I am hoping it doesn't come to that. I don't think he is a scoundrel, he just feels like this is his chance to negotiate since I refused to do so prior to the wedding.
You might be able to avoid
You might be able to avoid divorce and file for annulment possibly? Depending on how long you have been married and decieving you?
Sorry, any kid that has two
Sorry, any kid that has two parents can have those TWO parents leave them something if they wish…I would be LIVID if my DH had agreed to something like this and then backed out.
Well maybe get some
Well maybe get some counseling before running to divorce court. lol
He is totally in the wrong here. Mainly for tricking you into thinking he would sign and now he won't. He knew how you felt before marriage.
I would not have put the skid as beneficiary at all. At least you are putting them in there.
I'd sit him down calmly and
I'd sit him down calmly and let him know that he agreed to this arrangement prior to getting married and now he is going back on his word. That shows what kind of character he has. Does he really want to present that kind of character to his wife? You could site "fraud" as the reason on annulment papers.
I agree with Rising and
I agree with Rising and HRNYC.
THIS
THIS
It may very well come to
It may very well come to that.
OK, here is the deal. I read
OK, here is the deal. I read some of what you had to say in your previous post about whose kids they are, etc.
If you die, who is going to take care of YOUR kids? Is their father involved? Will someone else have to take care of them? If they are minor children, I would not leave it to DH or to the kids, I would leave it to an adult I trusted to take care of MY children and my DH as needed. The ONLY reason I would not leave it to DH is because the money is NOT to spend on his kid or for his kid to inherit my money, but NOT because I would not want my DH taken care of as well. Once my son is an adult, if he can take care of himself (he is autistic so we're not sure), then I would leave it to MY DH/BIO-CHILD only. If my son cannot take care of himself, again I would leave to another adult I trusted, NOT DH to take care of both son and DH.
However, it is NOT because I don't want DH to have my money or be taken care of if I go first…it is ONLY because I need to protect my money to be used ONLY for DH and our son, especially since our son is autistic. If I don't want to take care of my DH once I die, then I cannot expect him to do the same. And I think SPOUSES have a duty to support each other financially and their MINOR children or ADULT children if they are disabled only…otherwise, the majority will go to my DH only.
All of the money for my kids
All of the money for my kids and nephew will go into a trust. I have to look into how to add my nephew to the trust or set up another one. DH will get his money directly.
And if DH dies before me, I will probably split his 20% share of MY estate between the skids. Because he will leave it to them if he lives longer than me.
Instead of adjusting your
Instead of adjusting your existing plans to accommodate your husband and his kids could the two of you sit down and work out a new retirement/inheritance plan to cover your husband and his kids and perhaps you too? He could contribute most (ideally all) of the money towards that and it was understood that he would get a larger portion of that money to put towards himself/his kids (perhaps mirroring 20% that you agreed to for him for yourself and 80% for his kids). That way he has his own security that isn't reliant on you but you two can still feel that you are commingling and going to leave something to each other. It would be best all round as he ought to have his own plans just in case things don't work out between you and also depending on your current financial arrangements it seems unfair that you are effectively saving for both of your retirements single handedly. It sounds like either he is very manipulative or he is a bit dim (I'm leaning towards this) and didn't really think about what he was signing and it's implications and is only just realizing that he will need money for retirement and that he would like to leave something to his kids. The issue with changing your plans to include your nephew/adopted daughter shouldn't really be important, if you have separate finances you can leave all your money to whomever you like.
There are many many many
There are many many many people who don't believe that retirement planning is for them. It gets pushed to the back of their minds; "one day when I'm nearer retirement age I'll sort it out, right now I really need a new car" or "I'm bound to die young because that is what happens in my family" (my husband's excuse) or "I don't think that retirement planning is something that people like me need to worry about" or "if I make sure I pay off my mortgage then I should be fine in retirement".
Then one day they wake up in their fifties and realize that they ought to think about retirement now, but they left it so late that they have to save huge sums to be able to retire a hell of a lot later than they wanted with a significantly smaller income than they are used to.
Never underestimate the stupidity and shortsightedness of people.
I am never one to recommend
I am never one to recommend getting divorced over a single disagreement, but I really feel that your DH misled you. The fact that he promised one thing and is now demanding something different shows that he is not trustworthy. I think you are being more than fair by offering to adjust the percentages to include his kids. This is way more than I would do. I think you should try and work it out with him, but if he won't budge, you really have to think about the kind of man you married. If you can't trust him to follow through on his word on this, it makes you wonder what other things he will lie about.
We had the same lawyer. I
We had the same lawyer. I hope that counts!
I swear, the more I read
I swear, the more I read here, the more I think forget getting married, I'll stay engaged for ever.
I intend for my pensions, 401Ks and largest life insurance policies to go to my son. I have a much smaller insurance policy that will go to DF. (Equal to the policy that he has me listed as a beneficiary on) The vast majority of my assets were accumulated prior to DF and I meeting.
DF and I DF do not have joint accounts. We split everything 50/50. He doesn't have pensions or a 401K.
I don't blame the OP one bit for considering divorce.
I had that attitude for a
I had that attitude for a verrryyy long time. But then I realized how important it was to DH and so I went with it. I hope I don't wind up regretting it.
I have already offered compromises beyond what I wanted to. However, I realize that I probably was wrong to refuse to consider his wishes at all with the pre nup, so I thought Okay, be fair. BUT he needs to quit while he's ahead.
He is. I'm sure I would win
He is. I'm sure I would win if it came down to it. DH feels I forced him to agree to something he didn't want to because I refused to marry him if he did not.
So I am trying to be reasonable and compromise, but I really might set some kind of record for the shortest marriage if DH doesn't start being more reasonable as well.
ah, so "you forced him to
ah, so "you forced him to agree to something he didn't want because you would marry him otherwise", but he doesn't see that "he LIED to you in order to marry you?" gotta love these men…blah!
Force requires something like
Force requires something like a gun or threats of death. What you did was give him a choice. It isn't YOUR fault if he AGREED to what you wanted in order to get married. What he DID do was LIE to you in order to obtain a license that states he has to give his consent over YOUR finances.
If it wasn't spouses, I am pretty sure this would be considered fraud.
I feel this way too but it
I feel this way too but it doesn't work that way for my life insurance policy, 401K and pension plans. I found out that if you are married when you die, my life insurance policy automatically pays out to my spouse unless the spouse has signed a consent to allow someone else to be the beneficiary. It doesn't matter if I was married when I got the policy or if I have someone else listed as the beneficiary. It's not valid unless I have the spousal consent form. I don't know if that is only in my state or not though.
So you might want to double check that your policy doesn't work that way. It would suck if you were expecting it to pay someone else and then they paid your spouse.
I appreciate everyone's
I appreciate everyone's concern about DH potentially trying to pull a fast one for financial gain. He doesn't see it that way. He feels I had him over a barrel prior to the wedding because I refused to get married unless he agreed to allow my beneficiaries to stay the same and signed the pre nup.
Now he feels like he has a chance to negotiate because the pre nup is not binding on the plans, only on him. So basically, my only recourse is with him, not them. They will still pay out to him unless he signs that spousal consent. And who can I sue if I'm dead, lol?
But I can get divorced. I don't want to and I hope it doesn't come to that, but I really feel I have made major compromises and he is still pushing.
But that Is him pulling a
But that Is him pulling a fast one whether he sees it that way or not. You told m very clearly what your requirements for getting married were. He didn't like them apparently, but he Agreed to them. He is now saying, oh well, what you wanted wasn't fair so it doesn't matter what I agreed to, now I have You over the barrel. That's not negotiating. It's a downright shitty thing to do. It's Lying. It him trying to get more for him and his kids financially without putting out anymore himself. It's shady, it's dishonest, it's as another poster pointed out, fraud. He Agreed. He's now going back on it. If he didn't like it, wanted to "negotiate" he should have done that before the marriage. When you had the option of just saying no to his terms. It's Not his money you're trying to withhold from him, so how did you have him over a barrel? Was the marriage about wanting to be married to you or about making sure he got "his fair share"?
I hear you loud and clear. In
I hear you loud and clear. In fact, I agree with you. BUT I am hoping we can work it out. I do love the man, even when he is royally pissing me off.
I really appreciate your outrage and insights though. It lets me know I am right to be upset and that it won't be my fault if we wind up divorced after a ridiculously short amount of time.
I really don't know what qualifies for an annulment. I'll have to look into that just in case.
He may not "see it that way."
He may not "see it that way." Or, he might be lying about that like he lied in the first place.
How long have you known this "man?"
My FDH doesn't know anything
My FDH doesn't know anything about any of my funds, policies, any of it...When I go, my money will be split between my bio's once they reach the age of reason...25.
I like your thinking. I am
I like your thinking.
I am mostly concerned about while the kids are still minors and young adults. I fully expected that these allocations will be very different in the future. I want to make sure everyone is taken care of until they can take care of themselves.
Agree 100% with notasm. I'm
Agree 100% with notasm.
I'm sure that your kids, if you die when they are already adults, will not need nor count on a dime from you because they will be able to take care of themselves. They will hope that you spend YOUR money on YOUR happiness. What a great gift if there's something left over for them to enjoy.
I would have very little respect for someone who expected me to donate what I've worked for to them, or to their kids. I would have boundless anger at someone who tricked me into marriage in order to extort me (and by extension, my kids).