Update on Wife doesn't respect gay son. I am considering divorce
I want to thank you for everyone for your feedback ,it was invaluable.
In a last attempt to save my marriage, I asked my wife if she understands how her opinion about my son being gay is making everyone feel uncomfortable and she hurt my son's feelings. She responds by saying that how other people feel is not her problem and the only reson they feel that way is because I'm not supporting her- she's acting as if my son being gay is the worst that could have happened. Of course I'm not going to support such hatred!! I told her that I can't do this anymore and I want a divorce. She broke down hysterically and was trying to convince me she wants to fix our marriage. I told her than we need therapy with someone that has experience in such situations- I found one(Thank you for your suggestion Rags!). Well she does not want to go to therapy and says she wants to go back to being a family again but only the three of us (Her, Me, and our 4 year old daughter). She wants me to terminate my rights over my son. She addressed my son as a F**(I can't bring myself to write it. I am disgusted) and an abomination in the eyes of the lord. I told her thats NEVER going to happen and I want a divorce. Hell will freeze over before I abandon my son!!
I know I'm doing the right thing. Truth be told after what she said, I don't recognize her anymore.While greving her decreased mother, my wife has become her. Even if she does goes therapy, it will be to benefit her. I'm done. This whole situation has not only created a rift between my wife and I but between my son and my daughter( other daughter from my previous marriage) too.
She tried to use our 4 year daughter has a way to keep me in and asking me to think about her. Our child that we have together is no more deserving of having me in her life than my other 2 kids from my previous marriage. A friend of mine just recently got divorced and he has awarded full custody of his daughter. I do not want full custody of my daughter but I want 50:50. She seems pro-dad (Thank you lieutenant-dad). My appointment is on Wednesday.
When my ex found about my wife demoralizing my son about his sexuality, she wanted my wife as far away from my son as possible. I spoke to my ex ; we agreed that I will see him outside of my home on weekends (Thank you Tog).
All of this has been very hard on my son too. He's been distancing himself from me. Anytime I try to speak to him after the phone, he barley responds and keeps he conversation short. Whenver he came, he spent most of his time in his room and only left it for dinner or to use the bathroom. He kept to himself. I tried engage him but noting. It's my own fault. I should have made the descion sooner but I wanted to try and save my marriage but failed(the marriage councellor told my wife to 'back' off my son). I forgot to mention as well that after the session she pulled me to the side and said the normally she advocates for couples to put their spouses first but she was encouraging me to put my son first. I should have taken her advice then instead of spending 3 months trying to fix things.
Yesterday my son's stepfather called me( we all have good relationship) and asked if I could speak with him for a moment. He's been speaking to my son about how he was feeling recently and my son broke down. He asked him if he thought I still cared about him? His biggest fear is that I will up and turn on him too just like my wife and asked if there was something wrong with him. This broke my heart. He told my son that I will always love him no matter what and being gay is noting to be ashamed of. He's being himself and he should be proud. And my ex, him, I and his sister will always be there for him. My ex's husband is a good man and an excellent role model for my son
I support my son 100% (as do my ex and her husband and his sister). I love my son regardless of his sexual orientation. I made sure he wasn't around when I wife and I fought when I confronted her about her behaviour. Maybe he thought me staying with her was me turning my back to him??
I'm spending the whole weekend with my son as per what my ex and I agreed upon. I've planned on doing all of his favorite activities. I do plan on speaking to him and clearing all of his misconception without throwing his stepfather under the bus.
Should I also consider therapy with my son too? This whole thing has taken a toll on him as well
I think you are handling this
I think you are handling this very difficult situation remarkably well, and I applaud you. It sounds like your son does indeed have a great support in his step father too. I am sorry what it has come to with your wife, but she sounds like she is unwilling to give any ground at all regarding her attitude to your son - and this being the case - it doesn't leave you with much choice.
I think regarding your suggestion of therapy for you and your son together - I would wait and talk to him and see whether he thinks this might be helpful. I wouldn't describe it as the two of you going for therapy together, it sounds a bit blunt. I would ask him (after you have had a talk and if it still seems like it might be helpful) if he would like to go with you to talk things through with a sympathetic professional person, to help the both of you process what you have been through and to go forward. All the best to you and your son in the future.
Apologies
its 5 am here. Please forgive me if I've misunderstood. Last week you posted your newly devout wife is being a heinous hag to your newly out son. You read our responses with an open mind, tried some suggestions to repair the situation, found a therapist, had one session then announced to your wife about the impending divorce. And there's a loving and concerned step father that the boy has opened up to.
This all seems to be going at breakneck speed. I don't want to say I question your decision to divorce over this issue (i applaud your focus on the well being of your son) I would like to ask if this is type of behavior is typical for your wife. You've indicated a major personality change in her since her mother died and seem to be blindsided by her sudden hostility about your son's announcement. You also have a responsibility to her (and, by extension, your young daughter) to support your wife and get her the help she needs if she's lost her dang marbles. I would hate to think that if I was suffering from mental illness that my DH would abandon me and take DD away.
On the same side of that coin, I wonder how much of your reactions will teach your son to make you a Disney dad. You openly chastised your wife for her inappropriate behavior, reached out several times to your son directly to show your love for him and are actively working with his other 2 parents to ensure his safety and well being. How did he come to the conclusion that you would end up like your wife? why wouldn't he decide that his other stepparent would react that way instead? Or his mother since she's also a woman. Instead he's supposedly having heart to hearts with his dear old step dad who, instead of pointing out to your son everything that you are doing to reassure him, is calling you and telling you to jump through more hoops.
What a circus you are living in. I am sending you lots of good vibes and will remember you in my prayers. You need some peace in your life. Do you have a chance to step back and maybe spend a day to yourself? It sounds like you need it to decompress.
My understanding is that this
My understanding is that this happened 3 months ago and they have been going to counseling since then (and that counselor has told the wife to "back off", but it has only led to OP's son not feeling welcome in his home and OP's wife continuing in on her "going to Hell" spiel). However, OP wanted to find a different counselor more specialized, I'm assuming to convince his wife to change her mind about his son. She refused, called her SS a f*g, told her DH to terminate his rights to his other kids and just be a family with her and her DD, and that was the final nail in the coffin.
There are just some things people say/do that end a marriage really quickly. I would assume the f*g and asking OP to terminate his rights to just be a family with his wife and youngest was where he realized he couldn't anymore. She made it very clear what her intentions were - to be derogatory towards her SS and expect her DH to throw his "first" kids away for her and their youngest DD - and how that alone would save her marriage. I don't blame the OP one bit for not sticking around this crazy crap.
I spent several years going to a more fundamentalist church as a bisexual woman. The things they taught and preached screwed with my head. Being told, as a teenager, by someone you trust, that you're going to hell but you're "fixable" takes a long time - even after hearing it - to recover.
As someone who suffers from mental health issues, I do expect my DH to help me through, and vice versa. But I don't expect him to take abuse, especially against his sons. If I ever called one of his kids a f*g or other abusive (not just derogatory) name, I'd expect him to leave. I may be my DH's #1 priority, but his kids are his #1 responsibility. Part of that responsibility is to make sure that they have a safe home with him. If I am abusive in any way, he can't provide that while living with me. Same goes for this OP.
Also, it totally makes sense that a newly-out 14 YO would think that his father would think he was abandoning him by staying with a woman whose reaction to finding out he was gay was to tell him he was going to Hell. A very elementary understanding of relationships, which is what teens have, is that you have to agree with the other person to make a relationship last. It's not a big leap for a teen, who likely loved and trusted his SM, to think his dad agrees with her when he continues to live with her, doesn't talk to him about how he disagrees with her, and let her around him. Plus, dads tend to be the most difficult person for young gay men to out themselves to because of all the stereotypes of what makes a man a man/toxic masculinity, etc. Dad's wife being the one to lose her st*t and Dad staying with her (and the son not realizing why) sends a message of "I agree, in some small part, with my wife".
"This all seems to be going
"This all seems to be going at breakneck speed."
I agree. It seems like OP is doing everything that the exW, SF, and SS wants him to do which is divorce immediately so SS will feel better. Will all of ss's problems really be solved through his father divorcing someone who has differing beliefs? What if 4 yr old DD echoes her current churches beliefs that her brother will go to some mythical fire infused torture chamber, will OP disown or *divorce* her too? If the wife softens over time will it be okay to have a relationship with her again? Will OP have to clear it with exW, SF and SS?
I hope that along with all of the support ss is getting that he is also being taught how to effectively deal with differing viewpoints in the world that he will encounter.
Huge difference between
Huge difference between "differing beliefs" and a homophobic, evil cruel bigot. Dicvorce is the only option here.
Hopefully the daughter wqill have a chance being exposed to a more accepting father.
OP, I don't think you need
OP, I don't think you need therapy. I think you can show your son support by joining a local PFLAG group and learning as much as you can about how to support him. There are little shifts in conversations that you'll have (like sex talks will need to focus less on pregnancy and more on HIV and STDs) and it's important to just know how gay culture is different from straight culture (just like you'll have to learn how "girl" culture is different from "boy" culture). Also, if there is a local LGBTQ+ friendly youth group nearby, encourage him to participate, or at least know that it exists.
My sister is a lesbian and I am bisexual. All we have ever wanted from our family is for them to be accepting and knowledgeable. Love us for who we are, not what you want us to be. Understand that our challenges may be different, but that doesn't make them lesser - or more. It's still not 100% safe to be out and proud, so love and understanding goes a long, long way.
But don't coddle your son. Don't treat him differently than before, and that includes better than you would your daughters. You don't need to take him out on special trips, or send him to some super-expensive LGBTQ+ summer camo, or whatever. He will do stupid things, and he may use his orientation to get out of getting in trouble (I've seen girls use PMS for the same). THAT is why you need to stay knowledgeable - so you can treat your son fairly. That is the best thing you can do.
Don't run out and buy rainbow flags (unless you want to). Don't run off and sponsor a team in your local Pride parade (unless you want to). You don't need to show the world that you are super-duper supportive and this big huge ally (unless you want to). That's all unnecessary.
Just be a good dad who has learned something about his son that is different than what you know already. My DH learned all 700+ Pokemon because YSS was OBSESSED for years. Take the same approach as my DH did with Pokemon, and you're 90% of the way there.
I think it's normal for gay
I think it's normal for gay kids to fear losing their parents' love. Coming out is still very hard, even though our society has become more open about sexual orientation. Boys especially still do a lot of negative joking about homosexuality and it's a hard thing to have to cope with at age 14. He may be misinterpreting you sending him to his mother's as you blaming him and protecting your wife.
At 14, he can surely understand (if you tell him) that you sent him to Mom's to protect him from the things he was hearing from your wife, but you had to stay to figure out what was best for Little Half-Sister. I would suggest therapy to him, not because he's broken, but because coming out is challenging and it can't hurt for him to have a therapist who is gay-friendly and knowledgeable.
Good for you for taking such a difficult stand. I don't know what is wrong with your wife, but she doesn't seem to want to own it and fix it.
Frankly....
If your wife thinks your son will go to hell she will be there right along side of him because she has hate in her soul. Everytime she spouts forth about your son just repeat "Love one another as I have loved you." And walk away from her.
A thought though ... she is going through a greiving process. Has she hit the "I hate/ not fair/ anger" step yet? Because maybe she is projecting her anger at her mothers demise onto your son as a totally unneccessary target. She is angry and who else to blame but your son. It isn't her flesh and blood so he is an easy target.
Of course this in no way gives her to permission to rail on your son and use him as her personal whipping boy. She is a grown woman and can keep her mouth shut. Yes, she is probably taking on her mothers persona and maybe that is to keep her values and that in itself keeps her mother 'alive'. My DH says the minute he married his ex she turned into her mother. Not the person he married! And I find I sound like my mother at times which is somewhat comforting as she is half a world away but surreal.
I will not add my personal opinions on same sex relationships however I conduct myself as liking and loving all people until they give me reasons not to. Of course I have boundaries. But I have had interactions with some truly evil hetero people in my time and I have also run up againt the gay glass ceiling in a volunteer organisation I belonged to for a while (yes it does exist). What you do in the privacy of your bedroom has nothing to do with me as long as no children, animals or keeping someone against their will and torturing them. But it speaks to your character when you rail against someone with a closed mind and abusive voice or use your sex choice to make yourself mlore important than anyone else.
Don't let your son become that figurehead and make allowances for bad behaviour. Being gay does not give you special privileges anymore than being a redhead or having green eyes. And who knows, this may be part of his growing up process. I have known men who come out as gay and then change their minds later in life and vice versa. Women too. Your wife is about to realise that just because you have a daughter with her it doesnt mean your son fails to exist. But I bet that if he was hetero she would find something else to find wrong with him.
Oh my
Sir, As I stated in my reply to your earlier post, your wife is behaving like an abusive bully and using her newfound religion and the passing of her mother as an excuse for this behavior. She wants you to abandon not only your son, but also your daughter, and play happy family with her and your young daughter while tolerating her new and ever demanding beliefs. She obviously has fundamentally different beliefs from you about what marriage and family is about and is not even prepared to listen to a councillor, who does not have a vested interest in the outcome. I would say her hysterical behavior is more about not getting her way and she seems to have difficulty accepting the consequences of her behavior and beliefs. The ball is definitely in your court, but perhaps a trial separation would be beneficial for all concerned. If her behaviour does not fundamentally change, than a divorce is highly likely. You need to start documenting everything as you will need it in court.
With your STBXW’s extreme
With your STBXW’s extreme shift in personality and religious fundamentalism I would seriously consider going for full custody of your young daughter.
You can not tolerate exposing your young daughter to this disturbed toxic woman any more than you can exposing your son to her vitriolic crap.
IMHO of course.
If you are questioning if you
If you are questioning if you and son need therapy I would just do it. I wouldn't say you need a lot of sessions but just a few to reconnect and help your son see that you are on his side. The therapist could help your son understand what all is going on and make sure he gets a chance to speak.
While you aren't to blame for what happened it is understandable that your son will blame you. You guys will need to work through that and I hope you the best.
Wow, I feel so sorry for the
Wow, I feel so sorry for the 4 year old. Poor baby.