Let Them Have Their Delusions?
DH and I have a recurring fight which tends to get ugly and leaves us both feeling sick, and if it keeps happening the resentment is going to become insurmountable. It happened again yesterday.
Some polite acquaintance will ask him how his daughter is doing and he'll answer, which isn't his fault. But I don't want to hear it. Because it goes beyond polite answer into waxing poetic about how well she's doing, how gifted she is, blah blah blah.
Every parent wants to be proud of their kid, and I shouldn't want to take that away from him.
Every parent wants to be hopeful for their kid's future, and I shouldn't want to take that away from him.
Every kid deserves a compassionate parent, especially if they have endured abuse. And Satan was very abusive emotionally, but Killjoy is also extremely spoiled, which is not her fault, and on DH. But no excuse for her behavior.
I'm not sure I even want to politely hear how she's doing. I'm tired of bad people doing bad things and going on their merry way like nothing happened. It's not his fault or her fault that I'm bitter about all the narcissists who came before her. But what she did was bad enough on its own.
A number of people here will allow their DH to talk about their skids, just "uh huh"ing all the way. I would like to get to that point, but either I'm not ready yet or I don't know how.
In the course of the argument, when he tells me she's better now, I know it means he doesn't get it, never got it, will never get it, there's no point correcting him, except I hope he doesn't coddle and enable her in the future. It just makes me so angry.
It just feels like he's sleeping with the enemy.
We've resolved to not discuss her, but his ADHD doesn't allow him to remember consistently. He has diarrhea of the mouth.
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You can't make your DH
Changed my opinion. See below.
We were walking from a
We were walking from a restaurant to a concert with another couple. It crossed my mind to walk home.
I've stopped attending family events with him, or if I do, we mingle separately. I told him maybe we can't socialize with people we know anymore, maybe we can only go clubbing with strangers, or people who know what happened. He raged "YOU CAN'T DO THAT!" He said the same thing when I told him I'd no longer visit his ahole sister. And so many other things. Oh yes, I can.
I mean, if you two can't
I mean, if you two can't spend ANY time together because someone might mention his daughter and it will send you into a rage, that's a problem you have to deal with or you need to look at divorce.
My XH didn't want to spend time with me. If I wanted to go out with him amd friends, he'd say no. If he wanted to hang out with his friends, I was never invited. The reason why he did that os different than yours, but it cut really deep when the only life we had together was when it was totally in private. Made me feel like I wasn't good enough.
If the only thing you think you can do is not interact with your husband, then leave so he can find someone else. Otherwise, get therapy and figure out ways to mitigate your anger when Killjoy is mentioned.
ETA: Changed my mind after reading about the abuse. Seeing as how Killjoy sexually abused your granddaughter, and DH wants you to keep your trap shut about it, I'm not sure how you continue to try and have a relationship with him. When my SSis allowed her XBF to sexually abuse her daughter, I didn't ever shy away from talking poorly about SSis. I try not to say crappy things in front of my SF out of respect for him, but if pushed, I also tell him exactly how I feel and see the situation.
Perhaps what you need to do is stop sugarcoating the situation. If folks enquire about Killjoy, immediately speak up and say "I have no relationship with her and never will again due to her behavior". That may make the situation awkward enough that folks will stop asking in your presence. If folks continue, don't be afraid to say she hurt your GD in the past and that is why she is no longer allowed to live in your home.
If DH doesn't like that approach, then he can shut down conversations around you. Or, as I said, you let this relationship go.
I apologize for forgetting about Killjoy's past. I knew she was antisocial and a pain, but forgot about the abuse part. That does make a difference.
Thanks, this is practical
Thanks, this is practical advice I can use. Most of the people we are close to know what happened. I'm going to have to avoid everyone else. It's what I wanted to do anyway. I wanted to tell them about Killjoy, but I didn't want to ruin their evening.
MIL/FIL know what happened. I've already decided to unload on them if they get cutesy about her again.
I still recommend therapy.
I still recommend therapy. While I don't interact with my SSis, she still causes me problems from time to time because she still interacts with other family members. My choices are either to let those family members go or figure out how to better navigate the situation. I've managed to find ways to deal with her presence in my life even if at a distance.
My SBro, though, has done therapy, as he should because he had to both deal with SSis's abuse and the direct result of her neglect of her kids. He will not entertain anything related to her. He will tell everyone exactly how he feels about her. He has also had to deal with cutting off family who sided with her, and he had to find peace in that.
It's not easy, but for your own sanity and peace, find someone to talk to about her. Someone that you can unload what you actually think without fear of repercussions. Being able to speak your mind freely without consequence can help yield better ideas of how to handle the situation.
I let DH talk about SD to
I let DH talk about SD to others and it doesnt bother me. If we are in agroup I will usually just start talking to someone else so I dont have to hear him go on and on. And I sometimes will bring her up first on nights she isn't here. Then I know for the rest of the evening she won't be brought up. (Its called beating someone to the punch!)
Just becuase I dont love SD doesnt mean I want DH to never talk about her. Unless I dont know your background story and SD didnt something horrible to you I don't see why this bothers you so much.
Your SD abused your little grand daughter
I couldn't forgive or forget or pretend to be happy to hear about any accomplishments.
Her crime was too great if you ask me. I would be exactly in your shoes.
Thanks for the support.
Thanks for the support.
I don't have an issue with DH
I don't have an issue with DH talking about SS21, BUT, he sees SS just as I do, so there are no delusions there. I would have a very hard time listening to him spew bullsh!t about how wonderful and successful SS is, when he's so not. If that were the case, I'd have a hard time putting up with it as well. Especially if SS treated me badly.
I'm often impressed with how much compartmentalization people on here can do - they still love and want to sleep next to a guy who lets his kids treat them like garbage - I don't think I could do that, personally.
"I'm often impressed with how
"I'm often impressed with how much compartmentalization people on here can do"
Same here. Maybe their SKs were psycho-light.
ETA: Living with constant hostility, it seems like the introverts tap out long before the extroverts do.
I would say next time this
ETA: I forgot about the abuse so I went and found one of your past posts. No I could not sit idely by while my DH lied about what a great human being his child was knowing they had touched my grand baby in a vulgar away. Instead my DH would probably learn very quickly not to engage about his daughter around me because he would have to hear "Oh you mean his daughter who molested my granddaughter? Well the little pervert is doing just fine because nobody held her accountable, but my granddaughter still has nightmares."
He said crap about how well
He said crap about how well she's doing in school and all the coaches that are scouting her. And that much is true, I can't expect him to tell people she's a derelict. It was his tone that killed me. Like he's living vicariously and so excited. This is how she became a narcissist in the first place.
GD10 wasn't traumatized by what happened and didn't even realize it was wrong at the time. Prior to the incident, Killjoy showered her with attention. GD didn't understand why they couldn't be friends anymore. When she is older she will understand how sick it was, but according to DD she barely remembers.
Abuse
Im sorry - what abuse occurred with your GC? I re-read for more backstory, but cannot find it.
In the context of your husband arguing about something like that, I would be angry as well.
Yet here I sit, and 8 years in I feel like Im always waiting for the other shoe to fall. DH has told me no he wont live with SD22 Feral Forger and wont let her move in with us. He has told me that he wont reach out because of all her toxic behavior. But I just feel like if something drastic were to happen be might go back on that. i dont know, maybe we go so much into our past fears that we cant see what is in front of us.
You do sound like you have major PTSD. Plus you still arent living together BECAUSE OF WHAT HIS DAUGHTER HAS DONE. So no wonder you dont want to hear your husband wax poetic on his genius daughter.
Id get myself into therapy. Your DH isnt going to just release his kid. You do not sound happy at all.
https://www.steptalk.org/blog
https://www.steptalk.org/blog/ispofacto/kicked-them-out-257237
Thanks
OMG. Disgusting. Yeah, there is no going back and things havent really gotten better since this post!
ISPO. How is your grand doing? Id want to Kill Killjoy, but then Id have to go to jail.
How how how can your husband sing her praises after that? Oh yes he swept everything under that majic rug that makes "things" disappear. Your husband has an illness.
Id say something next time he opens his mouth about Killjoy. Im so angry for you and your grand.
Killjoy is doing well in
Killjoy is doing well in school. And that is good because hopefully she won't be a burden on anyone. I did tell him I hope she gets struck by lightening, but then I felt bad for saying that.
GD10 is doing great and barely remembers. I'm angry about what Killjoy intended for future sessions, but GD has no idea about those implications.
My god that is absolutely
My god that is absolutely detestable! Part of me wishes you had called the cops on the budding perv, then let your DH brag about that.
"I feel like Im always
"I feel like Im always waiting for the other shoe to fall"
Yep. My DH isn't evil, but he is very forgetful. I feel like I need to vigilant about not letting him forget, or else he will rescue Killjoy.
She's a senior, so he's going to give up his apartment soon. I don't know what they will do for xmas 2022 onward. This is his house too and I had a temporary insanity of wondering if I should try to forgive her for something she did at age 12. I told him I was trying to forgive her, and he admitted he's hoping I will. I'm not ready, probably never will be, but I did try. Now I'm annoyed at him for admitting he's hoping. But it was my fault for bringing it up.
Go back in time
And read your posts, if you havent already done so. Shes a sicko and she "was just a kid" doesnt apply to this one.
There is no forgiving this physcho. Shes going along just fine, your DH is completely forgetting what she did, and hopeing you will too. No one should be ALLOWED to forget this. Stand strong in that.
She will hopefully move far far far away.
Right if KillJoy had beena
Right if KillJoy had beena boy, would people be saying "Well he was just a kid?" No!
YES!
I didnt think of it that way...until now youve brought it up.
No - there should be no expectations from your husband that you will just forgive. I understand why your feelings towards him have changed - can you sit him down and discuss your feelings? Maybe read him a few posts????? Hit him over the head with a hammer?
I hate that shes doing well and has not suffered any repercussion. Id still bring it up when folks ask. But you addressed that already too.
I'm years down the road but I
I'm years down the road but I still won't sugar coat the fact that OSD and YSS attacked their father and broke his shoulder. Nope, no way does that get swept under the rug in my world. Not when there has been no apology or acknowledgment of the damage they caused. OP, if my DH was waxing on about how great the estranged skids are, I'd be divorced. Ground your DH in reality. Make him face it. Make him realize how much pain his daughter caused and will probably continue to cause. If she never received quality consequences (as mine never did) they will skip thru life thinking what they do is ok with the world. Like we need more people like that on this planet. There is a long road to forgiving but you can't can't even get on that road unless reality is a part of it.
Thank you. I agree. She's
Thank you. I agree. She's never shown remorse or apologized for what she did. Every time he goes into her grades at school, I go back to that.
Then I feel like an ahole for attacking his hope.
Deep down I wonder if he doesn't believe she did it. He emphatically claims he does.
The thing you have to do is
The thing you have to do is realize that she won't ever receive the consequences she should have for what she did.
There is a certain kind of peace that comes with hoping someone like Killjoy does get their life together. Not because they deserve it, but because other people don't deserve to be their victims. It is more about protecting others than it is forgiving them, and the "social bright side" to that is others think you're at least neutral toward that person.
It's the mentality I have to have in regards to ET. For the sake of the boys, I hope to God she gets her act together and keeps it together. I hope she finds happiness so she doesn't rely on the SSs to fulfill her. I hope she wins the lottery so she can stabilize herself. I hope for anything good that will prevent her from making someone else miserable.
I think, tangibly, that's what forgiveness looks like. That's what moving on looks like. Your DH is still stuck in the fantasy about Killjoy, but the issues that brings is entirely different from allowing yourself to get to a headspace where you know she is less likely to hurt others if she succeeds. It makes hearing the "wonderful" things easier.
I dream sometimes
of winning the lottery. And do just enough good to get rid of Toxic Troll and SD22 Feral Forger. Them being forever down is a drag on all of us. I was just thinking that I wish she would go off and live a good decent life somewhere out there, and the same with Toxic Troll. Go live a good life - somewhere else far away.
Maybe that is where DH is
Maybe that is where DH is coming from. He did say making sure she doesn't become homeless may be the best he can hope for.
She's only established a social life this year. He seems relieved that maybe he didn't raise a broken human. I should let him believe that. As long as it doesn't translate into pressuring me to forgive her.
I want to clarify something
In stuggling to come to terms with all this, I've done a lot of research over the past five years.
Not all offenders are pedos. When older children do something like this there are a lot of possible reasons, and many times it is not because they are attracted to children.
So, yes, she is a narcissist, maybe also a pyschopath, but I don't think she's a pedo. But being a narcissist in the malignant territory, I do think she is a danger to people in general, especially anyone who is defenseless.
I'm sure she is embarrassed by what she did and will probably never admit it.
Pedo or not, I hate her though. But DH does not think she is a pedo and doesn't hate her. And I can't expect him to. Killjoy is broken, mentally ill. And I still hate her.
Seriously dunno what I would do if one of my kids was like her.
It sounds like she was
It sounds like she was grooming your granddaughter...if that's not a pedo I don't know what is...look at Josh Duggar. Let me ask you...has killjoy dated? Does she have a preference? Are her tastes usually for younger people?? You are question g yourself because that is what abused people do when they have been trained to think the abnormal is normal. It's not, what killjoy did is/was wrong and had she been a boy she would have been brought up on charges and labeled a pedo.
Killjoy hasn't made any
Killjoy hasn't made any attempt to seek out neighbor children or get any babysitting/mentoring/coaching jobs, or whatnot.
Personally, I strongly believe she is a lesbian but she just got her first boyfriend (ewww!), a boy one grade below her. She is extremely concerned with her VIP status, so I think she is using the boyfriend as a trophy. She also thinks intimacy is gross, so she and the boy are both very prissy and embarrassed, they don't even hold hands.
She's just a cold, controlling, power hungry, abusive narc who doesn't have to worry about consequences. And she was very jealous of GD. Going after her was a manifestation of her covert hostility.
Children from 12-15 go through normal experimentation with their peers, but stooping to common human frailty is embarrassing and beneath her, so she experimented on GD. And she has no conscience about using people.
From what I read, the girl
From what I read, the girl traumatized you and your loved ones. Your reaction makes perfect sense. She is a trigger. Just reading what she did made me nauseated I cannot imagine how you felt. I am so sorry. The fact that an abuser was at some point themselves abused, while very sad, doesn't make their behavior any less wicked. I would not ever expect you to be ok listening to your DH bubble on about this person. You are under no obligation to let this go. You said you hate her and rightfully so. If he had a fraction of a brain he would never mention her around you. I cannot comprehend how he could not understand your feelings. It's disgusting. Therapy could help you with the anger, pain and trauma for your own well-being, not with the idea of tolerating her but with the goal of strengthening yourself. I wish peace for you, DD and GD. Many hugs
Thanks. I'm not going to try
Thanks. I'm not going to try to forgive her anymore. It caused me to think about her and just made me unhappy.