Boy is almost 18.
With less than a week, SS will be 18. Freshly graduated from high school and basically doing nothing at home. (Not really helping with stuff at home, no job, and not learning how to drive either)
Two days ago an argument broke, boy wants to be able to call the shots and do what he likes (understandable), buy whatever he wants, spend all the (little) money he has. We told him if he wants to call the shots and/or disrespect us he can start being a big boy, by paying his own bills, and his room won't be free anymore- we'd start charging him rent, and he can start buying his own food. OR, he can start doing something productive, like finding a job.
The next morning he woke up thinking we were just kidding. Today he asked me "why do we want him to get a job so bad"....I asked him why he shouldn't be getting a job, and he has no good answers. (Because, there is no good answer lol)
I've been waiting for his 18th birthday for so long, even though I know that will just be another same day thats no different from any day in the past 8 years. He doesn't care to grow up because he is hoping we will just be there and carry him (he won't admit though). I feel so fed up today.
Ugh!
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18 is not a magic number
I'm an older (80) stepmom of 3 and BM of 2. We raised them all at our house. Whenever I read about one of you younger steps counting the days til the kid turns 18, I shake my head. I can see it if means child supporr stops, I'd certainly count that down, too. But as far as any magical behavior changes, it doesnt happen.
We saw everything from immediate military service and immediate college attendance to sporadic work experience resulting in the kid still living here at 23. And, over the years, 4 of the 5 have moved back with spouses, kids and pets (the only one not to move back was the one who was still here at 23).
It all depends on the individual and doesnt co-relate to an age, imo.
At the beginning of this
At the beginning of this journey I definitely saw the age of 18 as the finish line, although I'd never just let a kid become homeless with my conscience. SS was and is a difficult child/person. I know he was born with extra challenge of his own, but i did also pay the price with my own mental and physical health dealing with the drama he created all these years.
As of now, I've come to the realization that 18 is no magical number, and that is why I start to push for change (husband and I are both on this). It was that SS didn't seem to understand "why" he needs to do meaningful things that really bothers me. He said he doesn't expect us to raise him for life yet he was doing nothing to grow up.
I don't expect him to change over night (heck, it's been almost a decade and he didn't really change much lol), I just need him to understand what being an adult means. TBH him being 18 now seems to be a bit more scary than I thought it would be, because SS is quite gullible and naive, compared to his peers. And since he will be an "adult," there is much less what we can do. (But it's also a relief of not needing to bear the responsibility for him).
I feel very complicated and conflicted. I don't want him (either kids actually) to be with us forever, and I also don't want him end up being homeless.
I hear you
Yes, it's odd to me, too. I couldn't wait to get away from my parents' home and you were probably the same. Sigh....
I mean...if all he needs to
I mean...if all he needs to do is to tolerate the nagging and half assed housework and all my needs will be provided...why would he want to leave lol
and you are so right, I was so eager to make it out to the real world on my own so I just can't sympathize/empathize.
What is magical about 18 is that there is zero legal duty owed
to the kid at that point. After that, they have to earn it with appropriate behaviors or... GTF out and work and pay for it themselves. KISS.
You do not need him to know anything other than he can do what he is told or GTF out.
Like you, I would not kick a kid out to be homeless. Though for damned sure kids like your SKid need to think that you would. And in a hurry at that.
The key to clarity for these kinds of kids is the burning platform. They need to be scared so shitless of being put out and they need to have their tail feathers singing with ever increasing heat to the point that they jump on their own accord.
We had to adopt the burning platform for ours after he turned 18. He was always exceptionally well behaved, polite, kind and really a pleasure to be around... for the most part anyway.
However, the influence of the shallow and polluted end of his gene pool was something we had to counter and protect him from. Unfortunatley their guilt drove him to refuse to take advantage of the mom and dad full meal deal college experience scholarship. Though in hindsight my position on this might have been part of the reason he chose to not go to college. SpermLand ends CS at the later of age 18 or HS graduation unless the kid is a full time student in good standing with their university/college/tech school. In that case CS continues until the kid turns 21 with CS going directly to the kid rather to the former CP. We had told SS that we would cover 100% college tuition, fees, room, board, travel, car, insurance. My stipulation was that his discretionary money had to come from him informing the DAs office of his student status and CS continuing and was my stipulation for paying for everything else. The tears and guild from the SpermClan about how that would deprive his three younger also out of wedlock Spermidiot spawned half sibs of food, clothing, etc, etc, etc... likely was a main thing that drove him to refuse to go to school.
We did have a challege getting him to graduate on time. He was kicking ass at Military boarding school, honor student, recognized athelete, first trumpet in the band, selected for leadership summer camp, etc when the SpermIdiot hacked the school fire wall and he and SS would stay up all night playing WoW so SS was a zombie in class. He ended up failing all but 1 class the first semester of his Sr. year. He only needed one specific class in the Fall and another in the Spring to graduate though he was taking a full class load. One of the classes he failed was the the one he needed in order to graduate in the Spring. That class was not offered in the Spring or during the summer so we would have had to pay another two semesters worth of tuition for him to graduate from that great school. So, we jerked him out at Winter break and brought him home. We put him in our local HS where he knew no one. We told him he would graduate on time or he was in deep shit. Part of that was that I took him on a tour of the homeless camp under the elevated Interstate in Philly to meet his new neighbors if he failed to graduate on time. That scared the ever loving shit out of him.
He was assholes and elbows digging in to graduation on time after that and he knew his mom and brought him into this world and was about to take him out if he pissed her off at that point. In addition to the two classes he needed to graduate from the Military school, to graduate from our local HS (A great school. The highest rated in the state) he also had 4 more classes. A math class, a history class, two career track classes, and ... he had to complete a comprehensive Sr project that was assigned at Winter break of Jr year. He had 6wks to get that full year project done. That kid worked his ass off. He would regularly engage me for comfort regarding how pissed his mom was with him. "Dad, mom is really pissed at me." Yes son, your mom is very disappointed and hurt.
He graduated on time and with honors. Though it was not a particularly celebratory event. We flew my ILs in and my parents were there for his graduation. The mood was more like that of a funeral than a graduation.
After HS graduation we had to work through the refusal to go to college and the campaign of guilt and manipulation by the SpermClan regarding keeping them on the hook for CS.
We knew that he responded to extreme discomfort. That is what had gotten him to graduation on time. So, we rebuilt the burning platform, planted him in the middle of it, and torched that sucker into white hot flames.
The deal was if he was a full time student he could live at home. Or, if he was part time student and working part time. Or, if he was working full time. Nope, not interested.
We made it clear that sofa rodeo rider was not a career option and that our sofa was not bucking around our family room and did not need to be held down. So, his life was one day at a time after he turned 18 at the end of the summer after HS graduation. Being housed, fed, and clothed was dependent on his completion of an ever growing daily chore list M-F. If he had the chores done by the time we got home from work, he got to stay and do it all over again the next day. Different chores of course. On weekends all he had to do was cook and clean up after all meals that we ate at home. If we went out to eat, he came with us. If we we took a trip, he came with us. But, if we were home, he was our live in unpaid back and call chore boy. That kid swept, vacuumed, moped, cleaned, polished, dusted, wiped, scrubbed, trimmed, cliped, weeded, washed, folded, sliced, diced, choped, cut, cook, served, etc... for the next 8mos.
If he failed to complete the chore list by the time we arrived home from work, the next morning he was on the curb until we got home from work. Once we got hom he had until we left for work the next AM to get the previous days unfinshed chores and the days chores he did not do because he was on the curb done or.. back on the curb. Lather, rinse, repeat.
He only tested us twice on that. Once in early Sept when it was hot and humid as hell. We came home and he was lying on the back covered patio sweating his ass off and as pissed off as he could be that he had no food or water. We introduced him to the garden hose at that point and reiterated that there was food and water inside and if he got his chores done as directed, he would be in airconditioned well fed and watered nirvana. The second time he tested us was in Dec and it was a bit chilly. He spent an uncomfortably cold day on the curb that time. I did grab the comforter off of his bed when I walked him out the door on my way to work and tossed it to him as I climbed in my car. At the end of the day, he was bundled on the back patio shivering. But, he wasn't thristy. The garden hose was right next to the patio.
4mos after starting his career as our live in unpaid beck and call chore boy he enlisted in the military on the delayed entry program. He passed his 14yr service anniversary two months ago and is less than 6yrs from full retirement.
His mom and I are very proud of him.
We laugh about the beck and call chore boy period from his 18th B-day until he left for basic training 8mos later. Though he does scowl a bit when it comes up in conversation when we are together. He does thank us for not letting him just wither and become a game addicted dipshit like his Spermidiot.
So, build the platform, plant his ass right in the middle of it, and torch it. He can either let his backside roast, or launch into adulthood. Keep turning up the heat until he does. At some point, kids like this need to finish growing up on their own time and their own dime.
Try a tour of the local homeless camp. Those wonderful people were absolutely incredible when I dropped SS off with them for a couple of hours. They fed him, they gave him hot coffee, and they chewed his ass about having parents who obviously loved him so he had better get his ass in class and do the work.
Of course we would not have kicked him out to be homeless. But he did not know that.
*dirol*
In the interest of full disclosure. I had my version of the issues that my SS and yours struggle(d) with. I had an extra eyar of HS, though I did graduate at the top of my class. After that, I was on the 11yr undergrad plan before I finally completed my BS. That included starting and selling a business, a failed marriage, and any number of young man brain farts.
Entitlement
I have two SD's, now 34 and 32. There was literally nothing required of them growing up. Both were raised to feel entitled because their mom's family had money. They graduated in the bottom few of their HS classes, only turning in schoolwork and going to school when they decided to. Both attended college for several years without ever making much progress. It was very hard to watch, since I was the one paying for a lot of these choices. I finally had to take a hard stand and push the issue to get them off our payroll (4-5 years out of HS). Both are married now and it is freeing to no longer be financially responsible for them. 32 yr old has a good job doing something she loves that doesn't require a college degree. 34 yr. old is another story entirely. She has lost more jobs than I can count, is rarely truthful about anything and just generally difficult to be around, not just for me, but for most people who know her. She has a 4 yr old and is "the perfect mom" on Facebook, though she makes some poor parenting decisions off camera.
I say all this because I think it is important to have expectations for children. The counselor I saw for a good while said that if there are no expectations, children generally live up to them, which is true. Set some expectations and consequences and enforce them. Hopefully, you and your husband are on the same page with this (we weren't). It will be good for your child in the long run and help them to become a responsible human.
Yes, we have expectations.
Yes, we have expectations. With SS though if we don't double check his work, it's almost certain that he doesn't do it right.
we are starting with the no more allowance after 18. If he wants anything, He can find a job to be able to afford.
I would advise that you not waste your time on incrementalism.
Put his ass on the burning platform and light that sucker up. He can stand and roast or leap.
He is about to be a kidult. He does what he is told or he can GTF out. Though like you, I would not make a kid homeless. Just exceptionally uncomfortable until they launch.
I just don't get how these
I just don't get how these dads let their newly minted adult sons just sit around the house. No job, no plans, hell, for some, no driving! I know in some areas a drivers license isn't needed, but for most of the US/Canada and prob a lot of other places, if you don't drive you are as dependent as a 10-year-old. Why are these dads content for their sons to be, well, losers? Yep. There, I said it. Losers. I know not everyone will be a brain surgeon but unless the kid is seriously mentally challenged, they can do something. But it requires planning. Then working the plan. Are these dads still so caught up in competing with BM for Best Parent Ever, or still quaking in their boots in fear of losing the adults to PAS from Mommy? They are literally letting the people they claim to love just rot away.
Ok. Rant over.
ETA just looked at your bio and it looks like your SS has ASD and ADHD. But you also mention charging rent and getting a drivers license. How challenged is he? That would determine whether he would go the college or career training route or group home route. But for your sake and his, he needs to go some route.
SS is challenged in terms of
SS is challenged in terms of communication (well duh lol). He can perform well academically in most subjects as long as he puts in some effort. Comprehension can be difficult and he's not good at understanding the hidden messages (things that are implied without being said out loud). He started learning driving last year but didn't get good enough to take the driving test before the deadline. He's supposed to do this (paper and driving test) again this summer.
we are not really charging him rent yet (the little saving he has will only last 2 months even if we go with the super cheap rate we told him.) if we do charge him rent, we would save it for him and give him back when he moves out. But it's another milestone that we are not in rush to do.
I have at least trained him to use public transportation to get to places because we are not his dedicated driver (we will pick him up if it's dark outside though) . So if he doesn't learn how to drive he just need to accept that he will always have to leave super early because you can't control public transport time.
husband and I both tried, real hard. Kid is stubborn sometimes (to a frustrating degree).
A kid in my family has
A kid in my family has similar limitations (mildly on the spectrum, ADHD.) His parents pushed him to reach his potential. He works a skilled trade that doesn't involve as many "people skills". He lives at home for now but he isn't, you know, just sitting at home. He's gone 40 plus hours a week working. He was living on his own but struggled with budgeting and bills. The goal is for him to save and try again, likely with help from parents managing his money and paying his bills. They weren't about to let him loaf. ETA he's early 20s.
That's really good! SS is
That's really good! SS is very (way too) optimistic about future and still thinks about it like he's 5 (think like " I want to be an astronaut when I grow up", well he's about to be grown up). I wanted ss to learn a trade but DH wants him to go to college. We agreed to let him try community college, and if it doesn't work out, I think it will be time for them both to accept that ss is not ready for continuing education. DH already told him we won't be funding if he isn't getting good grades. (What's not said is that we expect the first semester to be awful and hopefully becomes a waking up call).
I think parents should push
I think parents should push their kids to be the best they can be, but they also have to be honest with themselves about their kids' capabilities. My SO's daughter said she was going to be an engineer and own "multiple multinational corporations." But wasn't passing algebra at community college. She had a baby 3 months ago, lives with her BM, and is supported by public assistance and her parents. No degree, no job. She could have had any number of degrees and been self-supporting by now, but she wouldn't let go of the pie-in-the-sky idea. Your DH needs to try to look at things objectively and figure out what SS can do according to his abilities and likes/dislikes.
Good thing is DH started to
Good thing is DH started to be able to admit SS is...a bit behind in terms of maturing. I guess I can understand a little, what parent want to think that about their own kids. Schools also have been cuddling SS so he hasn't really gotten real grades based on work quality. I'm hoping community college will be a wake up call for him to change for the better.
My SS also has ADHD. His was Dx'd as an adult.
My dad suspected it. His mom and I did not. We told his pediatrician about dad's concerns and the pedi basically told us we were nuts and SS did not have ADHD.
We had very firm and enforced standards of behavior and standards of performance that we raised him with. Under hairy eyeball supervision he excelled. As we expected him to self motivate as he got older he struggled and it drove us nickin futz. In hind sight, I think dad was right. Our firm standards probably hid his issues.
He thrives in high structure environments and has so far had a very successful 14+ year military career. He has had some recent increasing mental and emotional health issues. Depression and anxiety mainly.
Also in hind site, he had a gaming problem as a kid. It was detrimental to him and to our family. The Spermidiot is a hard core gamer and the SpermClan would buy SS whatever portable game system was released. Starting with the GameBoy and going up from there.
SS was so fixated that if a screen was on anywhere near him he would zombie out just staring at it slack jawed with a glazed over eyes. So, when he was in about 6th grade we purged all games and game systems from our home. We pitched the controllers for his PS2 and it was just our DVD player for movies. When he would return home from SpermLand visitation with the new iteration of portable game system and a pile of games, they were collected and locked away until he left for his next SpermLand visit. We had had enough.
Also in hind sight, gaming was probably his stim-ing behavior. He was also an avid reader so he would devour books at a prodigious rate.
Like most parents, we had no clue. We just made it up as we went along. All first time parents have is the example of how they were raised by their own parents. Parents learn to parent. Their eldest is basically their parenting crash test dummy/lab rat. I certainly was for my young parents. Who also strict with very well defined standards of behavior and performance. They mellowed with my brothers. One 6yrs younger than I am and one 8yrs younger than I am. My dad has told my brother that he owes me an eternal debt of gratitude for teaching them how to be parents.
I think the whole internet
I think the whole internet/video game thing has been a problem for an entire generation. I wish i had been more proactive about it with my kids. My older son was into gaming but always managed to keep enough of a lid on it to do ok in school. My younger, IMO, got entirely too into social media during the COVID lockdowns. As an essential worker, i didn't get to stay home with my kid and would come home exhausted. I wish i had set something up for more supervision/control of electronics when they were basically at home teaching themselves with "online school" for 1.5 years in high school. Hindsight is 20/20.
I remember thinking that this generation of kids would be so smart and well-read, with all that information available at the click of a mouse. But as humans tend to do, the tool was not used as intended. Who would have predicted that a thing intended for research (the internet) would be used for things like games, porn, impulse shopping, and people bickering and further dividing themselves over things like politics and social issues.
Is the father asleep? What's
Is the father asleep? What's going on there? Why isn't he making plans and enforcing them for his children?
My husband was a little bit like that with the two oldest SSs and they ended up being bums. The BM was telling them to just quit school and they could be "business owners". In the end, my husband had to explain that life is hard without a high school diploma. BM refused to have them in her house after they dropped out because they were doing nothing and creating a big mess and eating up her food so guess who got to live through the consequences? Me! God knows we tried to get them enrolled in GED programs, give them chores, encouraged to get a small part time job and even took them to work for their dad in his company. None of it worked and they left the house because the "rules were too strict" and I was the problem supposedly...
Your husband can put his foot down now or be ready to live with SS forever. SS24 lives in his car because he refuses to follow the rules/help out at BMs house and same for his father's house...he would rather sleep in a car than clean his bathroom once a week...thats what he told me...A lazy person who is ok with living a homeless life because they don't like rules or work...
Be prepared to either have a marriage breakdown or see your SS homeless and being blamed for it
Your DH should be working
Your DH should be working with him asking him questions like "What are your ambitions?" or "Don't you want to do something productive with your life?" Explain that having a job will give him more freedom to go where he wants, see his friends and to buy the things he needs or wants.
Why isn't he learning to drive?
I don't see why you should stick your neck out and be the bad guy here. This is your DH's responsibility.
When my kids turned 18, I was fortunate to find a fantastic financial planner that was willing to meet with them via Zoom and explain the basics of credit, saving, and investing. It turned out to be really helpful. They opened a bank account, got a credit card. (and lessons keeping the monthly balance paid off.)
Good luck. Kids that come from divorce frequently take extra time to launch due to developmental delays, overcompensating permissive parenting and recovering from general family dysfunction. Of Course with the cost of living now-a-days even typical kids are sticking around longer. It's hard to afford taking flight from the nest.
Some kids are immune to gentle parenting, asking, discussion....
Don't waste your breath or bliss on asking and discussing.
In my experience, those kids need telling and they need an escalating level of discomfort to motivate them. Though at a relatively low level of discomfort, I was one of those kids. So was my dad. So was my kid.f
Though my GPs had rules, standards and boundaries with my dad, and my parents had them with me and my brothers, and DW and I had them with my S)S. We all probably over provided and as smart kids we had comfidence (except for my SS) and we were adventurous (exept for SSs) the normal reasonable path was not of interest to us. Becuse we were smart, when we ran nose first into the wall of consequence and clarity at 18, though later for me, we figured it out and came to the realization that mom and dad were right (including SS)