OT Rant. Anti vaxxers

I have a friend who has lupus-had her first kidney transplant at 19 and now is about to get another in her early thirties. She posted a a long Facebook post asking people to not get the flu shot if they're going to be around her. She's convinced that the shot (I understand the mist, as it is a live weakened virus) will give the recipient the flu and pass it on to her. I respectfully disagreed with her on her points and she went on a diatribe about how I shouldn't get the flu shot because I'm pregnant!!! I've already gotten it, since getting the flu is way more dangerous than the vaccine while preggo but good grief...after I told her I received it she was telling me how awful I am to have gotten it. WTF. Science people. Rant done.

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I mean.... why science when

I mean.... why science when we can have HYSTERIA instead?

I have an acquaintance who is staunchly anti-vaxx for both humans and her animals. Guess what? Her horse died of RABIES. A fucking horrific, painful, and agonizing death. Because she wouldn't give a perfectly safe $5 vaccine. So what if there is a 0.00000007 percent chance of a reaction? Rabies is 100 percent fatal.

(secretly I think it was karma)

I get being scared. He'll, I

I get being scared. He'll, I transferred my prenatal care because the woman's center and birth center where I was going to have my baby is one of three hospitals receiving Ebola patients in the US. I didn't do that until the nurses in Dallas got sick though...do I get that I'm being illogical? Absolutely. So I get it. But vaccines have been tested, it's not a human error thing. I don't know, maybe it makes me a hypocrite, but at least there are thousands of studies on the vaccines we receive...

BTW, not off topic at all.

BTW, not off topic at all. Our BM won't vaccinate, either. WE paid to get HER dog vaccinated. When SD was a callow 13 year old the hpv shot would have been so easy, but no. Genius wouldn't allow it. I told DH if it were me I would take the kid to the doc and get it done anyway. Now she's a sophisticated 15 year old who would know what's going on and probably wouldn't cooperate cuz, you know, dad is so super wrong and mom is such a paragon of brilliance and responsibility. Furhtermore, she's had a bf for the last 6 months -- I strongly doubt she's eligible for the shot any more.

She hasn't had the rest of the shots, either. I live in fear of her bringing some super bug into our house. Sometimes I even think it would serve BM right if her kid got something terrible and preventable. On days when SD is doing something like, oh, writing hellish hateful letters to her dad, I enjoy that thought more than other days. Other days I come to my senses and have the feelings of a civilized person. Not feeling civilized today. But the vaccine thing is no O/T at all. AT ALL.

This makes me sick. I know

This makes me sick. I know what rabies does. I wanna beat your friend with a mace.

You're entitled to not get a

You're entitled to not get a flu shot (or other vaccine). But don't disclaim responsibility for the consequences.

I have no beef with you, so don't take that personally. Just that there are consequences to others for your vaccination choices.

Ok. Take a deadly disease.

Ok.

Take a deadly disease. Vaccinate most people against it so that the chance of susceptible people coming in contact with infectious people is minimal. Success!

Or, vaccinate some people. The chance of susceptible people coming in contact with susceptible people is higher than minimal. Not so much success.

Of course *most* susceptible people can/should get vaccinated themselves. But not all can - allergies, compromised immune systems, even strongly-held objections.

All I'm saying is - don't pretend that your decision to not get vaccinated has no effect. Hopefully you would be aware of when you're incubating a deadly illness and check that everyone you come in contact with - or who comes in contact with anything you've touched or breathed on - isn't susceptible to that particular deadly illess. But, if not - you might accidentally expose someone to a deadly illness.

I'm not saying you're wrong. You have the right to not get vaccinated. It's like... I live in the Netherlands. Smoking pot is totally legal. IMHO, that doesn't make it a good idea, but doing what you want to do, within the bounds of the law, is not a problem. But anyone who smokes pot and pretends there's no consequences... is only fooling themselves.

Thank you. Very well put.

I have a lung transplant and

I have a lung transplant and there are certain vaccines I CAN"T GET ever again. Regarding the flu vaccine the mist (live virus) is a no go forever and if my immune system were much weaker I would have been too sick for the shot (dead virus). As is, I barely leave the house except for medical appointments and the few times I get out and do something fun I wear a mask. Forget the sick and elderly- babies are too young to get a flu shot.

"Correlation is not

"Correlation is not causation."

Well said.

Also known as post hoc ergo

Also known as post hoc ergo propter hoc

It takes a couple of weeks for the vaccine to build up the immune system. There is also a small portion of the population that it doesn't help, which is why it's important for as many people as possible to get the shot.

Its a normal immune response

Its a normal immune response to the virus, the body sees the foreign substance and sets off an immune response, slight fever, some inflammation, just till the antibody can be formed in your blood stream, a day or two...and then its done.
Anytime something foreign is introduced, this will happen...babies have rashes on their face the day after they are born...its an immune reaction to air...
If you ate something you NEVER ate before, so foreign fruit lets say, your gonna have an immune response the same way.
Some people have a larger response than others, some people have such a mild response they can't even detect that they are having it, some have a HUGE response, and sneeze and cough and have a low grade fever for a day or two but its just because of the immune reaction, not the virus.

NO, its not an allergy to

NO, its not an allergy to something in the shot...

We all get an immune reaction every year to the shot, the immune reaction is what builds the antibodies...

The "dad" in this situation just has a more dramatic immune response, my husband has none, I get low grade fever and feel crummy the next day, SD sneezes when she builds an immune response...we all do it.

Its not "sick" its an immune reaction people feel, and its normal, and its GOOD! It proves that when your body see's something foreign, its gonna "call the troops" into action and ask questions later!

Its good to feel crummy the next day or two, it assures us our bodies are ready to fight infection and currently building a great response should we happen to get exposed to the flu this season.

^^this. I didn't get the

^^this. I didn't get the vaccine last year and ended up with H1N1. I was laid up for almost two weeks AND got a secondary lung infection. Many people equate the flu with a bad cold. It is so much worse.

ETA-I was responding to Tog.

Virus is dead in the shot, if

Virus is dead in the shot, if its the mist...now that's a whole different case.
he mist is live.
I got it one year because there was a shortage of the shot.
I got sick. Not full blown flu, just a low grade fewer, felt crummy.
The shot can SOMETIMES cause a low grade fever and a day or two of feeling crummy too,
Your putting a dead virus in you so your body can make an immune response, low grade fever for one day and feeling crummy can sometimes happen during any immune response to anything.
I can assure you, you can't get the flu from a flu shot, the virus is dead.

Like an immune response to pollen or dust...
Your body comes in contact, develops a sneeze, low grade fever (99.0) and you feel crummy for a day, as the body builds its immune response, but you don't have a full blown immune allergy reaction...

Same with the shot, its not that he is sick, its that he is building an immune response and the extra antibodies in his body are setting off a low grade fever and causing some mild inflammation...that's all it is, not the flu

Are you kidding me now? What

Are you kidding me now?

What viruses do you think are exclusive to the 3rd world?

I'm a nurse, used to work

I'm a nurse, used to work transplant actually...I find stuff like that funny...laugh at others peoples stupidity when it comes to medical stuff, its the only way to survive sometimes and you would be surprised how much you laugh.
People understand health as much as they understand how their car works...
Its truly sad how little people truly know about their bodies and how it works.

Whopping cough has been

Whopping cough has been really bad in our area the last several years. DH has to talk to BM about SD get a booster this year since it's fatal in babies. I'm getting the vaccine next appointment as is DH.

I was just going to comment

I was just going to comment about Jenny McCarthy! What an idiot. She influenced a lot of people not to vaccinate their kids.

LOL, exactly. And weren't all

LOL, exactly. And weren't all of her "findings" completely disproven years later?

I'm guessing she has a higher

I'm guessing she has a higher medical risk with her boob job than vaccines.

She is gonna be

She is gonna be immuno-suppressed for the rest of her life, if she isn't the kidney will reject and her body will kill it.
She needs the shot... just wait till she gets her transplant!
I'm gonna LAUGH, they will give her the shot before discharge, right there in the hospital! WE always did...gotta protect the immuno-suppressed form getting the flu, the flu will kill them.
omg, your friend is funny! hahahahahahahahahah

This is her second

This is her second transplant.

Well, I hope she gets her flu

Well, I hope she gets her flu shot so that she can keep that kidney for life...I would assume its a living/related transplant since she knows she is getting it soon.

Yes. Her last one was from

Yes. Her last one was from her mother, this one is from someone donating live as well. I agree, you would think she would be pro vaccine given what her immune system is.

exactly, then there would be

exactly, then there would be less worry about getting the flu or anything else because everyone would be vaccinated.

I am required to get my vaccine, I will be fired if I don't. recent studies showed the #1 cause of wide spread flu is nurses, we get it from work and walk around the community spreading it, so now my work REQUIRES us to be protected, for our safety and the safety of our patients and community.

She wouldn’t want to be

She wouldn’t want to be around me then LOL! The army has given me a flu shot every single year and I get vaccinated for typhoid, anthrax, hepatitis, have had a small pox vaccination, and God only knows what else the army has given me a shot for.

You can't fix stupid. I am

You can't fix stupid. I am diabetic. My doctor recommends everyone in my household get the flu shot to help limit my exposure since my immune system isn't as strong. I get more bladder infections, etc. than the average person. BM refused to allow skids to get the shot. DH was going to take them and there was no cost. It was strictly to argue. Her reason was that everyone that comes in contact with me doesn't get one so why should skids. Idiot, they live in my house. She actually said she didn't care if I got sick or died. Talk about being dramatic. Now she's refusing other shots recommended and for school. Wonder how the school's going to like her reason.

As far as skids and BM's are

As far as skids and BM's are concerned with the flu shot.
I almost lost my SD to the flu two years ago because she was not vaccinated.
Everyone in the home was, me, DS, DD, DH...skids and BM weren't.

SD was admitted in respiratory distress, spend 5 days in ICU sedated on respirators.

They all get the shot now every year...

I'm sorry you had to go

I'm sorry you had to go through that for BM to grow a brain. Children are some of the most vulnerable as are the elderly. I'm glad it all worked out okay.

I wish BM would let the kids

I wish BM would let the kids get flu shots but she won't. Why? Because SS12 has an egg allergy. Even though their are flu shots available that do not have egg in them.

DH and I talked to our lawyer

DH and I talked to our lawyer about it after she refused. She told us we would win if we went court but we couldn't afford to do it especially since it would open the door for BM to bring up other things. So we just hope for the best and I tell DH that if skids are sick keep them away from me.

Wow. I'm glad she learned her

Wow. I'm glad she learned her lesson! I think my friend would have blamed those around her with the vaccine for giving it to her, thankfully that wasn't the case for you. Scary.

I went into respiratory

I went into respiratory distress- truly scary shit and we thought I was going to die. your poor SD.

I have several friends who

I have several friends who grew up in refugee camps- they have seen polio and a bunch of other diseases we don't have. They are now living in first world countries and have multiple degrees and they vaccinate their kids for EVERYTHING. One of them works with a bunch of anti-vaxxers and the subject of shots came up. My friend shut down the conversation with "I have seen kids with polio and kids die from measles and diptheria- have you?" *crickets*

Not one of your sources is

Not one of your sources is from a medical journal. I trust controlled medical studies done by doctors over soccer moms doing internet research.

but they cant put anything on

but they cant put anything on the internet that isnt true.....

childhood prevalence of

childhood prevalence of asthma, allergies, autism, and diabetes are increasing exponentially because kids are eating like shit. everything is processed and full of sugar!

Already did, I would hate to

Already did, I would hate to watch my daughter die from a cancer that is preventable. I think its amazing technology and research that can narrow down which cancers are caused by a virus and vaccinate for them!

WOW!

All these years growing up, everyone wanted a cure to cancer...
We have developed our FIRST!
And the masses are scared of it, but that's ok, its not the first time the masses were scared of the new discovery

I'm with you, DD will be

I'm with you, DD will be getting it at some point or whatever version they have when she gets to that age.

"horrible reactions" simply

"horrible reactions" simply are not happening.
All has to be reported to the CDC and the FDA, if the risk out weighs the benefits it would be investigated.
I know you hear stories of girls dyeing and all that...
There was a death of a young lady in our area, the mom blamed the shot...autopsy proved it wasn't, it was another condition she had been fighting with for her whole life.
Its safe, its full tested and it prevents cancer.

Does ANYONE know why "flu

Does ANYONE know why "flu like symptoms is the #1 side effect of ALL medications"

The answer will shock you! I know it did me when I first learned why.

Alright, so here is the

Alright, so here is the answer.
FDA requires most drugs to be tested for approximately 5 years.
When you have a "adverse event" (ie: side effect) it has to be recorded...
EVERYTHING!!!
So...over 5 years everyone in bound to have some "flu like symptoms"
So if 100% of the population taking the drug reports flu like symptoms and the doctors can't PROVE it wasn't caused by the drug, that makes it a side effect.

Its so funny when you read the side effects...you have to wonder how many people truly suffer from that stuff unrelated to the medication! LMAO

Girl crush.

Then check what the EMEA

Then check what the EMEA does. If the FDA suddenly ignores their rigorous procedures and allows a product to market, the pharmaceutical company is on the hook to make sure it also gets released in Europe at the same time, otherwise it can kiss making its investment back. If the EMEA doesn't allow that - red flag.

Wow, guys. I was ranting

Wow, guys. I was ranting about was the fact that I was lectured by an anti vaxxer for poisoning my baby with toxins and OMG she hope my baby survives my choice, when science tells me that getting the flu while pregnant is much more dangerous to my unborn child. The whole discussion made more puzzling because she has a lower immune system because of lupus.

Flu like symptoms, as have been stated many times already are NOT the same as the flu. I didn't get my flu shot last year and came down with H1N1 I was sick for two weeks. Four days with 102-103 temp and developed a secondary lung infection because my body was weakened by the flu.

I'm not trying to tell people what to do, but it does piss me off when someone uses internet "knowledge" and false data to claim I'm poisoning my child. The cherry on the top is those who don't get vaccines put those who can'tat risk. Rant over.

She is way off. Late husband

She is way off. Late husband had three transplants and his docs made him and all of us in the family get them to protect him. Also I mentor transplant caregivers and we are encouraged to tell them to get it...

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