Withholding insurance cards.
BM appears to be withholding the children’s insurance information though the CO clearly states she is to provide copies of their insurance cards to my partner.
She’s using the excuse that she hasn’t received the cards yet and is blaming it on the state since they now receive state funded insurance.
However, she has taken both children to see the doctor this year and even had to get medication for one which is how SO found out they were insured through the state.
Any time we had an issue before he would speak to the lawyer to make the request that it be fixed but since the divorce is finalized (YES) of course there is no more lawyer.
Soooooo how do we fix this? If the kids are with us and get hurt we don’t have the information we need to take them to an ER. Well we can take them but then have to pay completely out of pocket.
On top of this with it being state funded SO is now able to look at counseling options around our city since BM still refuses to take the kids despite having a doctor flat out tell her the youngest needed to see someone. Without the information though we’re stuck.
BM has ALWAYS controlled the children’s access to medical care so this isn’t something new. Are we really going to need to get a lawyer to get this done? If we do have an incident happen and have to take them to an ER is there any consequence to her for refusing to give him the information like she’s required?
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Gross. BM here just recently
Gross.
BM here just recently agreed to have SS on my insurance.
Um... 1) I don't need your permission, dumdum... however... 2) Because your birthday is AFTER mine, medical HAS to go through MY insurance FIRST.... or you will get dinged... dumdum.... so refuse all you want... it doesn't change the rules of the game
She finally "got it", when she received a letter from her OSAP's insurance stating she had to re-pay benefits for a few visits in the last few months... she wasn't pleased.
DH told her... listen BM... we TOLD you it would just come back on you... ss is covered... not just through my work, but also through my osap... so ss goes through 2 levels of insurance before getting to BM's.... we don't need your permission to add ss to our insurance...
Can you take ss along with a copy of the court order, and say that ss has state funded insurance but bm won't give you access as per the order, and to have them invoice HER?
Not sure. The order states
Not sure.
The order states that at this time BM is providing insurance due to my partners insurance options being unreasonable, which they are. It says she is to provide him with the cards and that they then split the cost of medical and such.
Make a copy of the CO,
Make a copy of the CO, highlight the portion that says that, and send it to her certified mail. Always worked with BM. She didn't like going back to court.
It's contempt to withhold that information (or not follow the CO) but you kind of want to wait until you have a bunch of stuff on her to file for that.
You wouldn't have to pay out of pocket for ER unless she never gives the information to the hospital. Then she would be liable for half (I am assuming that's how your CO is worded) so I would guess she would eventually give the proper person the info.
The CO says she is to provide
The CO says she is to provide him with the information and that they split out of pocket cost. It clearly states that she is the one carrying them on insurance at this time.
I'll talk to him about the highlight and see if that will help because right now she just keeps saying "I don't have the cards" but she HAS to have the information somehow. I personally saw the prescription receipt that said it was paid for through the state insurance. It didn't more exact information though.
Right. Maybe include that she
Right. Maybe include that she has 30 days to provide it. Might scare her. There's no way an insurance company takes that long to get it out to you, state based or not.
And she has to have
And she has to have SOMETHING. She's used it at the pharmacy. I saw the receipt personally so even if it's just numbers she's refused to give them to my SO.
Whats annoying is in a lot of whys thing seem to be improving a SLIGHT bit. She's still super defensive if SO points out something wrong but it seems like she's just being stupid and running her mouth without care around the kids instead of directly attacking and blackmailing my partner.
Every time I thought BM was
Every time I thought BM was getting better, something big would happen. Don't get too comfortable.
Thankfully, we should never have a reason to speak to her again unless something happened to all three kids at once. Otherwise, they can just contact us if about themselves or each other, which they already do.
OH I completely agree. I've
OH I completely agree. I've learned that she doesn't seem to stay sane long. Once whatever new fling she has burns out she turns into a monster again detrained to make all those around her as miserable as she is.
On top of this we have spring break coming up and she nor the kids know yet but we have a nice little trip planned. She's been trying to guilt my partner into having us join her for a summer trip to Disneyland to which we fully refused so then she started saying he should help her pay for it. He will. Through child support.
Anyways I expect hell when she finds out we did our own little thing. I can hear it now "Your a horrible father because you didn't even invite me."
Maybe that's why I'm so worried about the insurance cards though now that I think about it. They should be perfectly safe, we're not going to sky diving or anything but it is something out of the norm.
Can you just call medicaid
Can you just call medicaid and ask for one? Or Whoever it is that ss has?
Our BM did that too. We had
Our BM did that too. We had to take SD to the doctor, so BM had to give us her card. He called the number to get a copy of the card sent to us. BM constantly told us the government was slow, that she requested it and was waiting for it to show up. We waited for 2 months for it. After calling oursleves, we got a card within 2 weeks. Do you know the carrier? Call them directly.
Will they give it to him
Will they give it to him though he is in no way connected to the plan other than being their father?
I know when he tried before she had it through her work and the company wouldn't even talk to him because she was the policy holder.
They gave it to my husband
They gave it to my husband since he is the father. It was only SD's insurance. BM was not using it for herself. It was super easy.
I will let him know that.
I will let him know that. Thank you. Hopefully it works.
So someone correct me if I'm
So someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the assumption that if a parent had access to private insurance,the kids HAD to be insured rough that as primary insurance, even if they weren't COed to provide it?
The lawyers looked at it. He
The lawyers looked at it. He must provide if it is reasonable. His options are not reasonable in any way. He doesn't even have it for himself. SO will also soon get personal insurance though the VA.
BM is offered insurance through her work which she had them on until this year. Somehow she was able to get them onto the state funded children's insurance. SO never hide or denied his ability to get the insurance but he was excused because of how poor of an option it was.
I had to take SS15 to urgent
I had to take SS15 to urgent care one time. I had an expired ID card of SO's but when I got there and gave them his DOB all his information already popped up since he was in system and we didn't need the insurance card.
Same thing happened when my cat scratched my eyelid. We ran out of the house without my purse and SO didn't have my information. I was already in the system so didn't need anything.
I don't know what state your in or if it works the same way.
I wouldn't think he would be
I wouldn't think he would be in any of the systems up here because we are an hour from where he normally sees the doctor. Neither of the children have seen doctors up here. For normal routine care SO has made appointments with their doctors where they live and that goes fine but if we do a councilor we'll of course use someone up here and if there's ever an emergency the same thing.
We can't use the old cards because they are from her work provided insurance and now they have it through the state.
I am having the same problem
I am having the same problem with my ex husband. He provides insurance for our child, but will only send me pictures of the front and back of card, not the card itself. Why? What does he get out of this? And if I take our child to the doctor and they ask for the insurance card, what do I do? "I'm sorry, can you just look at this pic of the card on my phone instead?"
Idiots. Can't think of what this accomplishes for the BM (or in my case birth father) except for control and to inconvenience us.
If she would even give us the
If she would even give us the number we should be able to make it work and I know she has to have at least that. I can only guess that it is a control thing since like I said this isn't a new thing for her but yeah it's stupid. If something happens it's not like we can drive an hour+ to get to the ER that already has their info. Heck I wouldn't even do that for "urgent" care but "won't die" stuff.
I agree that it's just
I agree that it's just control but my husband uses a pic of his ID card to pick up scripts for my kids. It works.
Just having the number would
Just having the number would work but she won't give him that either. She seems to be selectively ignoring his request when he messages her. She flat out said she doesn't have the cards and he's willing to give her the benefit of the doubt BUT she has to have the numbers because she used it to pick up a prescription for the little one. I saw the receipt and that's how we found out they were insured through the state.
Oh ya, she's just lying to
Oh ya, she's just lying to control y'all. Even if she didn't have the cards, she most likely knows the numbers.
But then what would she use to force DH to beg!?
Just don’t pay his half of
Just don’t pay his half of the costs until he gets the cards.
How can he owe money for procedures that she doesn’t have a card to get access for?
There haven't been any
There haven't been any request from her for cost of medical. I'm going to guess there won't be many and if so it will be very low due to it being state funded. The medicine the child was given is already cheap and she got it for free. The kids got new glasses and she hasn't asked for anything. She's not the kind to not go after him for every penny she can.
We already ran into issues with that last year. She ran around doing whatever she wanted then when she decided it was time she stated to send him months old credit card receipts demanding he pay her back half. She got told by both lawyers no because she never involved him in the decision making and waited way to long as well as not proving valid receipts from the offices themselves.
She even went as far as demanding through the lawyers that SO give her almost $500 cash upfront for one of the kids to get something done. SO called the office and was given all the medial records for that year. He was also informed that there was no way the procedure she was claiming would be done for a child that young and even then it would cost max of $200 total.
No my fear isn't him having to cover his half. Which he still would be liable to do or be in violation of their custody order. It's that now she has no need to include him at all since there is little to no out of pocket for her. I don't think she would do anything unnecessary or harmful so it's just the fact that she won't "remember" to tell him and keep him informed like she is suppose to.
I've already written about how he found out through Facebook twice now that she had taken the kids to the ER but then she wants to scream at him if he doesn't tell her that the kids coughed while they were with us.
On the other side if we don't have the cards and we take them some place we don't get it covered by insurance. That's my bigger worry. Both kids really need to see a therapist and she has made it clear she has no intent on making that happen. If he can get the information needed he can take them himself. Also what if an emergency happens. ER cost are outrageous. We can't even get her to pay off debt that she already has... You think she's gonna pay us back half of his out of pocket?
What she is doing is so
What she is doing is so childish. Why would you not just make a freaking photo copy.
It's control. She's always
It's control.
She's always controlled access to the doctors to the point of going against medical advice.
She ensures that he can't EVER take them on his own or to a place that's inconvenient to her.
She makes no attempt to keep him informed of the children's health to the point that he's found out through Facebook about ER visits. She knows he wants the kids in therapy and by not giving him the cards or numbers she continues to deny the children that care.
I have no idea what and how
I have no idea what and how your state does things. You can learn more about what she has them on via your state's department that does the Medicaid program. She actually may not have yet received a card, but if she was accepted she does have the letter of acceptance.
Depending on which program she has (example, 'family' meaning her and both kids, or perhaps CHIPS, just the kids)she may have nothing but a single card which list her and each child. If that's the case (her and both kids) I wouldn't give you a copy either.
However, if Jr. tumbles out of a tree and breaks an arm and leg and is bleeding from the head, you can take Jr to the nearest hospital. Giving admissions the child's full name, birth date and social security number will enable the hospital to pull the child in the system.
Any dr, clinic ect will be able to tell you if they accept the Medicaid and/or CHIPS card and services for clients.
Regardless of what your SO's CO states, remember it is an agreement between BM and SO. It does not rule nor overrule the 'real world'. Meaning just because the CO states BM must give Dad a copy of insurance card, doesn't necessarily mean there is a card to give to Dad. And no, Medicaid nor CHIPS are going to treat Dad as like a private insurance company would. This is not going to work like if it were the insurance you, SO or the neighbor's work insurance does.
If you have generic questions (non-client specific) the number listed on your state's site may answer (such as which drs in your area accept the card or does it cover counseling and if so does it have to be pre-authorized). No, they will not discuss Jr as with Dad.
If BM has all three on the card, she needs to bring a photo id card (either state id or driver's license, not generic Sam's Club card) and the card. If she does not have card yet, she brings the letter and id.
FWIW, it's been a while, but when my oldest daughter and her horse's *ss husband had my YGS on state insurance, she only had to give me a letter of permission to have YGS treated and her card number (she didn't give me card which at time was basically a piece of paper). Wherever I took YGS then could have been able to pull up YGS and also with DD's letter of permission to treat , serviced YSG. As I said, it's been a while, so even that may now be different. It was never a big deal for me because as long as I had daughter's consent letter I could have simply paid whatever medical fee straight out without using YGS's card.
BM is claiming she has not
BM is claiming she has not received any cards at all but she has been able to take them to the doctor herself and on top of that provided information to a pharmacy so that they waved the maybe $4 cost of the medicine and charge it to the insurance in question. So yes maybe all she has is an acceptance letter with the Member IDs.
I'm going to assume since SO has told me she will not provide him with the insurance numbers she has informed him that she has them. Most likely claiming she didn't have it with her when he asked, which is valid, but now she is ignoring his request for those numbers.
If there is an accident, the children are not in the systems where we live because they have never been treated here and without that number it doesn't matter if an office will take Medicaid payment as we can't provide them with the information to show the kids have it.
She isn't giving him ANYTHING and she is required to do so by the custody order. He has no ability to provide any office or hospital with the children's insurance information. Just this past visit I got hurt while protecting one of the kids and almost had to go to urgent care. If it had been the child we'd be completely out because she will not give him anything.
Your saying you were able to do what you needed with card number, we don't even have that, and she isn't giving it to him.
Now maybe from what I understand by the information I've been given SO can contact the state but at the same time I wonder if they would provide him with the children's numbers simply because he can provide their info and claims he is allowed to have it?
If not, if we end up in the ER for one of the kids would they look up the children's insurance information based on their birthdates and social security numbers alone or would they deny him the ability to use it because he wouldn't be able to prove he has any legal right to do so?
ER's would provide mandatory care maybe sort it out later but if we can use urgent care then without those cards we have to pay upfront for that cost?
Honestly I don't know how any of this works. All I know is BM appears withholding their information that she claims she has and must have since we've seen that it's been used. As I said I personally saw the receipt that said the cost was paid through state insurance. She had to provide them with something and she is refusing to give that to SO. Maybe there isn't a physical card but the order is clear that they are to provide each other with that information and keep each other informed.
Let me add maybe I'm making a
Let me add maybe I'm making a big deal out of nothing but what I know is that SO doesn't have the kids insurance information. I am well aware of how accident prone kids can be. I'm more afraid something will happen and we won't have the insurance protection to get them care without ending up hundreds or thousands of dollars in debt.
That's why I came here. So far I'm hearing that SO may be able to go through the state to get the information himself.
Am I also being told that if he provides the ER with the kids birthdays and social security numbers the ER can find their insurance information? I would think that's possible for the hospital they already have gone to but that's not the one we'd have to take them to. They have no sister locations up this way so what happens if we take them without the insurance information? I know they would provide emergency care because they legally have to but what about paying for it? What about using urgent care where we live for a cough instead of driving an hour to the location she's taken them before?
" the children are not in the
" the children are not in the systems where we live because they have never been treated here "
Have not finished reading yet, but wanted to answer this. Yes, once the kids are entered into the state Medicaid/CHIP any provider can pull them up. Any hospital in the state that accepts the cards can log-in provider link log-in and access. Just like they would log on as provider to a regular insurance company.
" doesn't matter if an office will take Medicaid payment as we can't provide them with the information to show the kids have it"
You're not understanding how this works. Which is ok as you haven't had to deal with Medicaid and usage before. Think of it as a giant computer database, the provider logs on, puts in kid's name, date of birth and social security and up pops the kid's account. Or if they already have the number, they enter the account number from card you'd show and up pops kid. The dr office does not have to ever serviced the kid before. The child's Medicaid or CHIPS are registered in the database the servicer logs into. Kind of like when you see a site that has 'member log-in' and another link that says 'provider log-in'.
Would they do so without
Would they do so without providing the Medicaid number?
Would they look it up based on their birthday, full name, and social security number?
Does he have to provide anything extra to show that he is authorized to use their insurance for them?
At the start of this whole mess BM tried to deny him legal rights to the children. It didn't work but that's why I worry about him not having the cards. I didn't realize it was even possible for a parent to have visitation without legal rights and isn't using insurance apart of legal rights?
How does he prove he's allowed to use it without even having the numbers?
Because the system has the
Because the system has the account numbers they need to properly 'bill' and the person he brings in (either/or Jr and Sissy) is on the rolls or not.
The problem would be IF they are not on the rolls. If BM received the letter of acceptance, the kids are on the rolls.
If the kids are in fact on
If the kids are in fact on the rolls, it shouldn’t matter who brings them in, in the case of an emergency.
The babysitter or a teacher could technically bring them in.
Where it would become tricky is if they need a procedure that only a parent or guardian can consent to.
He would have to prove that he can consent but by that time BM will have been notified and will be at the hospital.
Dad has the divorce papers
Dad has the divorce papers now giving him joint legal custody aka he can give consent to medical procedures just as well as BM can. All he needs is to take his papers(showing joint legal) and id with him. BM now has basic physical custody but both parents have decision making on things like medical. Which I was glad to read as OP's BM gets every controlling. OP mentioned Dad did get joint legal somewhere on this.
Actually, if a sitter did have to take the kids in whether on BM's time or Dad's time, now either parent can give consent to treat over the phone to the facility.
As an aside, I've given verbal consent directly to the physician over the phone when my daughter was in the middle of surgery and needed consent to do something more than originally discussed. My mother (daughter's grandmother) had taken daughter to outpatient surgery that day because I had the toddlers and it was easier for grandma to go.
Ok, still reading but
Ok, still reading but wouldn't let me edit anymore. What you can request of BM is a written letter of consent really just saying the kids are on state insurance, he is father and he can take them for medical care. Dad would take CO showing he is father( if they wan to see it), her letter which just verifies he is father and can have them medically treated and the card and/or card number (or DOB and social security number) and his state driver's license or state id card (proving he is who he says he is).
How do we get her to provide
How do we get her to provide that when she's ignoring his request for her to give him the information as it is?
There's already a court order saying she's suppose to.
Politely ask? But being she
Politely ask? But being she likes to be the sole controller of the kids and medical care she'll probably non-politely tell SO to go 'f' himself.
Did they get anything in CO talking about mutual agreement on medical services other than routine office stuff? He has visitation rights and partial time share for physical custody, but do they have shared joint legal? Does she have 100% legal (decision making on medical, education blah blah).
Right now, except for requesting a letter since she won't or can't yet provide card, giving the kid's info and consent to treat the kids in the event of an emergency during the times the kids are in Dad's care, IDK. Kind of early to start filing contempt charges.
Dad asked and she said she didn't have cards yet? Did she indicate that even when she may get the card and/or all the info she wouldn't provide it to him?
SO maintained joint legal
SO maintained joint legal custody. She has told him she has the insurance numbers but has not given them to him. I'm assuming she first stated she didn't have them on her and now she selectively ignores his request.
The CO reads that they children have insurance through her employer. That they are both responsible for half of the premiums and all other out of pocket cost concerning medical, dental, And so on.
We know though a receipts for medication that the kids are on state funded insurance and she admits that too otherwise she could get him to pay half of the premiums which she is not.
CO states she will keep them on the employer insurance as long as it is reasonable and shall give him copies of the insurance policy and card. It states of she doesn't he's suppose to if it's available at a reasonable cost which it was determined it was not.
Now I have just found that it states if either parent fails to furnish insurance forms and such (including billing statements) they can be held responsible for the full cost of care that would have been covered so that helps.
It does state in their visitation agreement that she is to make avaible on request all records involving school and health. That provides do the same for both parents.
It stated in the CO itself that both parties shall keep each other informed regarding children's "medical and school troubles."
Again the order clearly states that his insurance was found to be "not reasonable."
If BM has insurance through
If BM has insurance through her employer I don't understand how she can get "free" insurance through the state such as Medicaid. She might have lied to get the "free" insurance which may be why she won't provide your husband with the needed information. I see mothers lie about facts to get free insurance, food stamps, section 8 a lot.
In the age of database
In the age of database sharing, any application for state run government insurance can easily be verified through BM's filed tax forms for the year 2017. Medicaid and CHIPS are both federal programs ran by the states (yes, the states can expand the programs).
What was once fairly easily to lie one's way through, it is not nearly as able to do so as once was. Anything could change BM's insurance status through her employer. Benefit election period and cost now prohibitive , for one. Single and head of household status as to now qualifying for assistance for two.
Just because BM once had insurance through work, if her financial situation changes and cost is x amount percentage of her income, they can't make her purchase it She can put the kid's on Medicaid or the employer plan can be used as secondary. No one can be made to purchase a plan they can not afford or can no longer afford. If that were the case, the state, I am sure, would much rather 'make' aka 'force' the Dad to purchase his outrageous costing work insurance plan and cover his own kids. As long as he's can prove his work offered plan is cost prohibitive , they can't force him to enroll the kids in his plan, just like they can't force BM to enroll them in her work plan.
Medicaid for the kids automatically qualifies the kids for free school lunches in most cases and all can be done by a few clicks on a computer through shared databases.
Not long ago it was a bunch of different programs and agencies with people enrolled without access to what other programs and agencies had on any given person... not so much anymore. Lying n the application can very well get caught when cross checked.
You quality for Medicaid by
You quality for Medicaid by low income. I see single mothers lie to qualify for such things by stating they don't know where the father is while is living in the same house with them, etc. It happens. I don't know why she won't provide the insurance information because Medicaid does provide insurance cards, unless she is hiding something.
If she lied that completely
If she lied that completely on her. SO had no part in her getting them on it and can prove through the courts that they had an active divorce case going on. She can not in any way say she didn't know where he was or had no access because he was exercising visitation and they had continued communcation through themselves as well as having lawyers as go betweens.
I do know that she claimed the children on her taxes in 2017 and would have filed married filing separate of she was honest. That information would easily show she falls into the poverty line.
Part of it may be your
Part of it may be your individual state and it's present abilities. Day is coming a click will tell them exact address of what address Daddy uses. Similar to four adults all using one address but all individually receiving head of household SNAP... once that address starts getting crossed 'hits', game over.
OWNPERSONALOPINION1 "CLAPPING
OWNPERSONALOPINION1
"CLAPPING HANDS" smiley !!!
I will say that as a single
I will say that as a single mother working 1 job at 32 hours a week with two kids I'd easily say she falls under the poverty line.
Neither of them has a degree and SO is currently working through the VA system to cover injuries he received while overseas that severely limit his options in terms of work.
I know the insurance he is offered through his work is worthless and anyone can see that. It was easily over %30 of his pay and provided NOTHING. The deducatble was insane. I truly wish I could get into his car right now to get the paperwork and share it with you.
I thought mine was pretty bad then I saw his. If SO can't get insurance through the VA I will be adding him to mine.
I hope the VA can help you.
I hope the VA can help you. He deserves it. Hope it works out for your family.
It's a monster to get through
It's a monster to get through their process. I saw both my parents fight their way through it and I know my SO is more qualified then my dad.
He was turned down the first time based on BS like most people are
He restarted the process months ago and went in person the other day after repeatedly playing phone tag.
We've been going through things one step at a time. Now that the divorce is over this is his focus. There's been ALOT of BS on their end but he'll make it through.
My partner suffered permanate nerve damage and is lucky he can walk. He experiences pain and sleep issues ontop of PTSD to the point he's had a service dog in the past.
When he basicly had everything when the intial incident happened but "healed" enough they let him stay in. He left shortly before BM kicked him out and which was only months before I met him.
Being the stubborn idiotic military male he was he had avoided the VA until I met him and pretty much demanded he do it. It's not for him it's for the kids. With the money he should receive we can move to where they live. We can have a home appropriate for our family. I don't know exactly what percentage he will get but it's all for the kids in my eyes.
Oh.... I'll add that the PTSD
Oh.... I'll add that the PTSD was serious enough that last year to make extra money he was apart of a medical drug trial testing new medication for PTSD.
He had to drop out due to it causing swelling of his tounge and another hmmmm personal issue.
I saw those checks and it's the first time he allowed himself to speak to a therapist like I keep telling him he needs to.
Edited to add I saw the medication too.
BM tried to keep the cards
BM tried to keep the cards from us for a while... I'm fairly certain MIL ended up doing something to get them... But I don't think I want to know.
BM was only keeping them for the control... We didn't even get them until we had had the skids full time for 6 (almost 7) months already. She also claimed to have "lost" the social security cards and birth certificates... We ordered new ones... We knew she had them (claiming them for food stamps) but she enjoyed the control and it wasn't a hill to die on. SUPER sucked. But we have all the cards and info now.
Thankfully I did read the CO
Thankfully I did read the CO again after some of the questions on here and it does clearly say that a parent failing to provide the information can be held accountable for all cost that would have been negated by that information.
dontfeedthetrolls Stop asking
dontfeedthetrolls
Stop asking for medical insurance cards.
Take the child directly to doctors or ER and fill out forms that MOM is payee, THEN call her and TELL her to stop what ever she is doing right away, child is at Docs,,, and she better come right now and drop by with insurance cards to billing section. DONT FORGET to give out her cell number to billing also.
(let her call back for address because your so upset you forget to tell her)
Every single time---"Oh bm, so your telling me that you are refusing to provide insurance information that only YOU have to doctors for Sally"? U BETTER get here fast bm. OR YOUR gonna LOOSE custody when the Judge hears this.
I bet she will hand over the cards after a few times events. If not, don't worry about it she can deal directly with billing. She is the insurance holder.
Same thing for filling prescriptions ect.