Too soon for Disengaging?
My boyfriend and I have been together for a year. Over the course of our relationship I've noticed some things that he's been struggling with in regards to his child and his ex. I'm a problem solver so I made some suggestions. Some suggestions he took, others, he did not. ALL suggestions (including the ones he accepted) were met with resistance. Recently I made the suggestion that he communicate with BM via email. He rejected it. From my experience with him thus far I wasn't sure if he was just being stubborn or if he was actually saying no to the idea so I went on to explain how emails could be another good option for communication. He rejected the idea again and adds that I'm being pushy. The conversation escalates from there because I don't think I was being pushy. I made a mere suggestion. Ultimately he told me the exact same thing he told me when we got into an argument about his daughter and preschool which was,
"Share your opinions but respect mine". This time around he said, "Share your opinions and if I think it's a good idea, if it's something I can see myself doing or if I think it's valid--" I cut him off there because he basically just said my opinions aren't valid when it comes to his daughter and BM. I understand what he means when he says to respect his decision. I just don't understand why it means I'm being disrespectful by making suggestions.
I've read the article about disengaging when you're already in the thick of it. My question is, what if I adopt that thought process now? Will it save me trouble? He's already told me that nothing I say about his child and her mother is valid unless he thinks it is so I feel I'm getting a very rare glimpse into my future should I end up marrying him. I feel like never making any suggestions ever again. He says he still wants to hear them but I don't want to put them out there to be batted away at his whim. We don't live together so no suggestions I've made have been FOR ME. He's my boyfriend and I love him and so sue me, I want to help him. But not anymore. I feel that anything that does not directly affect me should not concern me. That goes against a lot of what I believe a partnership is but I feel that is the right thing to do. Do you all think it's too early to be disengaging? I'll add that we have started seeing a therapist together but she's on vacation right now and I really just need the thoughts, opinions and suggestions from people who understand.
I don't think it is ever to
I don't think it is ever to early/late to disengage.
I have personally disengaged on very limited levels where I know others who have completely.
It sounds like in your situation it would help you out as he is pretty much asking you to with his responses. If this is someone you want to be with I would suggest trying.
And I understand the partnership thing but he had a previous permanent partnership that is in the way wit BM and so he needs to deal with that. Being in our position is a sensitive spot you need to be his partner in y'all relationship at y'all house think of BM like a co-worker to him you wouldn't try to be apart of his work partnership so don't let the BM stuff become your problem.
I've decided to disengage and
I've decided to disengage and I've told him so. I said, "I feel that when you tell me to "share my opinions but respect yours" that you look at any suggestions as disrespect. I also feel that you don't actually want any advice but you say you do out of courtesy to me. I do not mean any disrespect. To avoid this in the future I will not longer be sharing any suggestions or ideas unless it is specifically asked of me by you. This is going to be very difficult for me because it goes against a lot of what I think a partnership is. Your relationship with your ex and your child are not my concern and I will do my utmost best to remember that". His response was full of sorries and I don't want that and I want an open honest partnership. but I've heard that before. I just told him the best way to avoid having this situation is for him to ask for my advice and for me to never give it unless he does so.
I know it can be hard, but I
I know it can be hard, but I as much as I want to tell you to run like others isn't who I am...how this is handled will be a eye opener to how your future will be and if you can see a future.
Please look at it like I said as you wouldn't put yourself in middle of his job, which being a father is a job...that doesn't mean you can't share a partnership in YOUR relationship, and the household it simply means you don't want to deal with BM. You can still have your partnership. Personally for a while I stopped saying anything about BM and my DH would bring stuff up and tell me he wanted me involved, so now I am a little more but anything between them is between them we have our relationship and that is the important thing.
I would suggest as mentioned below do not take it out on the child. I'm not saying be super involved but the child still needs to see somewhat of a alliance between you and the DH and that you are at least there, and not completely shunning SK because of the situation.
I'm not going to take it out
I'm not going to take it out on his daughter. She and I get along and I don't want to jeopardize that. So I'll continue whatever behaviors I engage in with her. With her father however, I feel that when he vents to me about his ex or daughter that I should not offer any solutions unless he asks for them. I'm not going to apply the same rule to any other subject matter. Just his daughter and her mother. This may not be a long term solution but we've only been together for a year so maybe in time he show patterns of seeking out my advice and I can feel comfortable and confident about sharing my ideas without the threat of conflict.
I don't think he doesn't
I don't think he doesn't respect my opinion, I think he thinks that if I have a different idea that I don't respect his. That's not the case and there's nothing I can do to fix the way he responds to suggestion. I've told him that I won't be giving any advice unless he specifically asks for it. If he doesn't, that's on him. As for life after we get married (if we do) I'll keep the same attitude when it comes to his daughter and her mother. He wouldn't allow his daughter (or BM) to disrespect me so that's not a concern. I just need not concern myself with the fact that neither he nor her mother comb her hair so it always looks messy and is filled with lint. Or the fact that he refuses to use emailing as a fail safe way to ensure that BM can't lie about the amount of time she actually spends with her daughter in an attempt to gain child support for a child she does not live with full time. Her attempts are never entertained but that's because he's had proof. He uses Texts, I suggested email because texts can be deleted by a cellphone trying to create room when it's running out. If he doesn't want to use email then fine. Not my problem. The world already seems a little lighter.
never too early! and that
never too early! and that includes his conversations with you regarding them. he doesn't value your opinion? you don't need to hear about them. everytime he brings them up it should be "that's nice" or "that's too bad" and change the subject. he's already going down the road of keeping that one area of his life separate from you. as long as he feels this way, please don't consider marrying him. in fact, i'd start dating others. if you don't have children, i'd STRONGLY suggest it. too big of a mess dating a man that's already "taken".
I don't know the details of
I don't know the details of what BM and stepchild are like and how much contact you currently have, but generally speaking I would not advocate disengaging from a preschool age child purely on the basis that the Dad is not keen to take your advice. That could be very hurtful and bewildering to the child if you have previously been involved and caring. There is a big difference between disengaging, which means deliberately playing very little part in the stepchild's life, usually as a last resort after a substantial period of conflict with the parent and/or bad behaviour from the child, and setting appropriate boundaries on your relationship with the child. The latter is really about avoiding rushing in with a new mum/hero complex and overinvesting in your relationship with the child and role as a parent.
If you're talking about disengaging purely in the sense that you do not offer advice or opinions to BF about his ex or child then that can take the pressure off temporarily while you pursue counselling, but it's not a long term solution because ultimately it's very difficult and stressful to have a relationship with someone and have their child be a part of your life and home and not have your opinion respected. Some men can work through their guilt and defensiveness and learn to co parent with a new partner, and counselling can help a lot if you get the right person, but for many it's always an effort with friction never far beneath the surface. Think hard about whether you want a life with a child in your home that you may never have much say over.
I see his daughter all the
I see his daughter all the time. Pretty much every weekend. She lives with him full time. I don't have any contact with her mother. I go with him when he drops his daughter off or picks her up but I don't get out of the car. If her s/o is around to drive her to my bf's house for pick ups or drop off, we say "hi" to each other but thats the extent of it sometimes I don't even go outside with him to greet his daughter I just wait until she's in the house. So far she's not a thorn in MY side but she is flakey which is a thorn in my bfs side.
I really appreciate what you said and it's some really good food for thought. I'm not going to stop being kind and caring to his daughter but I think for right now, leaving it open for him to ASK for my input rather than offer it freely will save on future arguments. I don't really have any other ideas of what to do. I plan on running this past our therapist in our next session.
I don't think that just by
I don't think that just by opening my mouth that I'm being pushy. I didn't get upset because he didn't take my suggestion. I got upset when he called me pushy after mentioning the subject ONCE. This not an ongoing conversation that we've been having. Just because I try to solve problems doesn't mean I think I have all the answers. If I thought that, I wouldn't be on a website seeking advice from strangers. You're right, my bf does have the right to deal with his child and ex as he sees fit, and I have the right to protect myself if I'm attacked for showing the slightest amount of interest. Which is why I've decided not to get involved unless he asks me to.
I'm just wondering how your
I'm just wondering how your boyfriend thinks a marriage will ever work if he is not willing to hear his partner's opinions and take advice. My DH used to have a real "my way or the highway attitude" so I know where you're coming from. He never listened to anything I had to say about SD or BM. He still isn't great about it all the time, but he has gotten better over time (we have been together 4 years now). Of course, I have also disengaged a bit and that has definitely helped me to keep my sanity! It's much easier if you don't care as much, unfortunately. I decided my sanity was more important than playing mommy to his messed up kid. I don't think it's ever too early to disengage.
I'm not sure how he thinks
I'm not sure how he thinks it'll work myself. When the subject was brought up in our consultation with the therapist and he repeated to her the things she said to me, she looked just as puzzled as I feel. I recognize the fact that a relationship cannot work if both partners aren't welcome to share opinions. I recognize that this relationship will not work if at some point he doesn't become more receptive but I haven't been able to get him to see that. Maybe I haven't been able to convey it very well. Maybe our therapist will help us get on the same page.
I hope your therapist can
I hope your therapist can help. I forgot to mention but my DH and I went to counseling and it actually did help so hopefully it will be the same for you! I could only get him to go twice and we probably could have benefitted from going more, but it still made a difference. It got him to hear the truth from a neutral professional which is what he needed.
I'm still stuck on boyfriend,
I'm still stuck on boyfriend, not living together seeing a therapist... There is too much baggage and drama in this relationship. Chalk it up to a learning process and move on.
I see what you're saying but
I see what you're saying but I don't think that it would be wise to wait until I'm living with him to hammer out these issues. Therapy may not work and then there'd be all the drama of moving out. We're both invested in this relationship which is why we decided to give therapy a try. If it doesn't work then the break would be clean.
Tell him to stop dumping his
Tell him to stop dumping his problems on you if he doesn't want your opinion.
When some one bitches about a situation it is natural to give advice if you have any. I guess he just wants to bitch, bitch bitch to you while you hold his hand and say "poor baby you are so put upon".
When I told him I wasn't
When I told him I wasn't going to say anything anymore he told me he didn't want that. Then a situation arouse where I would normally say something and I made the zipped lip gesture, his response was "good". I'm glad I knew better than to believe him when he told me he still wanted me to chime in.
That's how I feel. I wouldn't
That's how I feel. I wouldn't want to live with a child and have no say. If I wanted to do that, I'd live with my sisters and their kids. My s/o's daughter lives with him full time and I see no reason for that to change; so opting to only have her as a visitor should he and I move in together at some point, is not an option. She's only three and so far we get along but there are some issues that I don't want to have to be dealing with in my own home. Like she still sleeps with him, and can't go to sleep without him in the room. I've already told him I'm not sharing my bed and if I feel like a visitor in my own home, I'm just going to get my own actual home. I'm hoping the therapist can get through to him that if he expects to have a relationship he'll either have to allow the other person some say or accept the fact that the other person isn't going to involve themselves very much when it comes to his child.
:::Update::: It hasn't been
:::Update:::
It hasn't been very long since I told him I will stop volunteering advice and there seems to be more tension than before. He is now purposefully bringing up topics that he knows I normally would comment on. For example, today is his daughter's very first day of preschool. He called me this morning after he dropped her off and while he was telling me what happened he said "she didn't cry she walked in and when the teacher came to get her she forgot all about US". Now, I heard the "us". I thought it was either his mother, his sister or her mother that he was referring to along with himself. I didn't ask him to clarify. I just said that it was a good sign lot better than her crying. Fast forward a few hours later he calls me on my lunch break like he does everyday. He volunteers the information that it was in fact her mother that he was referring to when he said "she forgot about us". Of course, I want to ask if it's going to be a regular everyday thing for BM to show up everyday when he drops her off at school. I see no need for it. 1. Via the divorce agreement, BM is allotted 1 day per week and every other weekend and the weekends she is to be with her father BM is allotted 2 days per week. She is to give 1 week notice to which day(s) she would like. 2. If she wanted to be part of things like this, then maybe she should stop being a fair weather parent and ask the court to make HER the primary caregiver. I kept all these thoughts in my head. I can see why she came today because it was her daughter's very first day at school but that also brings me back to objection #2. The only thing I said to my s/o was that I figured he might have been talking about BM when he said what he said but that I opted not to say anything. He proceeded to question why and I proceeded to remind him of what I said less than 4 days ago. He spent the rest of our telephone conversation and my lunch break bringing up topics and trying to get me to react. At least that what it seem to me. You can throw that line out there but I'm not biting babe, sorry.
I've had the thoughts that I
I've had the thoughts that I don't need to know what SD is up to every second of the day. Even before I decided to stop volunteering advice. I guess I just don't know how to say it without making it seem like I don't care(some things I don't care about) or that I don't like her. I'm pretty sure that he'd take it negatively. He just called me a few minutes ago (mind you I'm at work) to give me yet another update about SD. His sister is a teacher and one of her friends and colleagues works at the preschool SD is going to. The friend sent my s/o a text updating him on how SD is doing and he called to tell me. I know he's excited but I'm also cringing because I know this is what he's going to want to talk about for the rest of the day. I feel like we're going to end up having an argument if I don't show the right amount of interest.
I am a very attentive full
I am a very attentive full time parent but I do not update my husband repeatedly during the working day about my children's progress at school, even on significant days like their first day in nursery or when they have a special event. I would send a text immediately afterwards to let him know they had gone in OK, and one after I had collected them. I mostly only phone if I have a question or a problem. I dont think you should have a problem with BM wanting to be there for her childs first day at nursery, regardless of the custody agreement, because that is a big day for a parent and a real milestone, but for your boyfriend to phone you repeatedly about his child's first day is not normal behaviour.
It sounds to me like he wants to position you in a mummy role and is therefore subconsciously testing your interest, engagement and tolerance for his child. Many divorced Dads are very conflicted between wanting a mummy figure to love their child and create a new nucleur family, and fear and resistance to the input of a non parent into their child and their parenting. They want you to love them and help them but not criticise them. They often don't even recognise or understand the conflict. My DH certainly had this about a year into my spending time with his children, at the point that I began to engage in a more critical way with opinions and suggestions. As a parent now I can empathise, you want everyone to see your children the way you do. But you cannot ask someone to co-parent with you and then deny them a voice and disregard their opinions. There has to be discussion and respect and compromise.
I would calmly call him out on the fact that he seems very focussed on discussing SD with you even though you are trying to take a step back for the good of your relationship because your input seems to cause tension. Ask him why he is doing that, don't allow him to deflect it back onto you or divert the discussion and give him a good long time to come up with an answer. Then tell him if he wants you to really be involved then he needs to let you have some real input, otherwise you're just a bystander and a bystander doesn't need to be phoned several times a day with parental updates.