SD7 got 4 spankings

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When DH called to talk to skids last night, SD7 was extremely upset (like sobbing uncontrollably an couldn't talk upset).

Apparently, she's been caught in a little lie about a miraculous $5 that appeared in her backpack. BM questioned her and SD7 lied about where it came from (BM confirmed the lie with another parent).

SD7 got spanked.

Told another lie.

Got spanked again.

Told another lie.

Got spanked again.

Told BM she didn't even know where the money came from and that she's sorry but she doesn't know what she's supposed to say. BM told her, "The truth".

And spanked her again.

DH is upset. Upset about the lies but really upset about the spankings. We don't spank them in our home; I've seen DH do it twice in all our years together but he hates it and uses other means of discipline now.

I know BM can do what she wants in her home .. but jeeze a whiz .. it just seems excessive

Yeah I don't think there's

Yeah I don't think there's anything he can do .. we pick her up today so unless there are marks, I just don't see anything coming of it.

BM just had a new baby .. so I think she is probably tired/exhausted and choosing what seems to be the fastest or easiest way to address the problem. It's clearly not working.

Corporal punishment isn't

Corporal punishment isn't illegal unless it leaves marks. If BM isn't leaving marks, there's really nothing you can do. You can only worry about what you use in your home for discipline.

If the kid's stealing money at 7, she definitely should be disciplined, but IMO there are other ways that would have more impact, like an apology letter to the person she stole from and working off the money through chores.

I think I'll pop some popcorn and sit back because I have a feeling this post will turn into a big corporal punishment debate.

Last summer SD7 got caught

Last summer SD7 got caught selling toys to her classmates for their lunch money.

We think that's what happened. I don't think she's stealing, I think she's manipulating her way into money (selling 25cent erasers for $5 type of thing).

But at this point, SD7 is so closed off from the whole experience, we don't know what the real truth is.

Five bucks for a quarter

Five bucks for a quarter eraser? She should be encouraged as she'll do well on Wall Street. As for lying you can encourage that also as if Hillary doesn't get elected she could be our first female president.

Mama's gotta find something more dear to the kid than avoiding a stinging butt.

LOL .. as an accountant,

LOL .. as an accountant, that's the same thing I said (jokingly) to DH. He didn't find it amusing

I don't know about your

I don't know about your particular area, but in my state (NC), the parent who has the child at the time can choose to punish them in any way they choose (except for obvious stuff like doing anything that will physically harm them or possibly cause harm). My ex spanked our older son for every little thing, and I wasn't fond of it (spanking just never seemed to work with him anyway), but as long as he didn't leave marks, there was nothing I could do about it.

Then last November, he whipped our son one day with a belt repeatedly, and hard enough to leave black streaks as long as a football (and no, that is NOT an exaggeration) all up and down his left leg. Yeah...that went too far. He's in the system now, being charged with misdemeanor child abuse. He did it for BAD HANDWRITING. My son said he lost count of the number of times his dad hit him with that belt. Those bruises were still painfully visible three weeks later. It was REALLY bad. Needless to say, I got a restraining order for my son (I'm the guardian ad litem now), and haven't let the ex anywhere near our son since it happened in November. The court stuff could take a while, but at least DS won't have to risk having that happen to him again. It's the third time something like this has happened at my ex's house. The first two incidents weren't as bad, and CPS just gave my ex "a good talking-to" and told him, "Don't do that anymore, okay?" I guess they thought that'd be enough of a deterrent, and voila, here we are today.

I think he deserves more than a misdemeanor child abuse charge, but that's what the District Attorney chose to charge him with. CPS filed the charges, and get this...my ex is mad at ME over it! He says it's all MY fault! (Classic abuser mentality in play here...)

I'll do whatever I can from here on out to make sure my ex NEVER has a chance to do that to him again. Sorry it's off topic, but yeah, typically, if the other parent isn't leaving marks or bruises, there's not much you can do to stop them, if that's the punishment they choose to use while the child is in their care.

The warning might have been

The warning might have been enough. CPS rightfully should not interfere with parental prerogatives unless absolutely necessary. Some of you got hit a lot some like me got hit never and most of us turned out just fine.

The thing about my ex that

The thing about my ex that worries me - and why I won't let him see our sons alone - is that he's flat-out told everybody (CPS and the police included) that NOBODY is going to tell him how he can or can't punish his children, and he'll do it again if he feels it's warranted. He feels no remorse and believes he's done nothing wrong. The first time I saw what he did to our son's leg, I just about threw up, and I'm not one to get all wiggy and emotional over stuff.

I agree that CPS shouldn't be involved in every little thing. Most of the reports they receive are bogus, and just one parent trying to cause problems for the other parent. Reporting it every time little Susie or Johnny gets a little spanking at the other parent's house just makes you look like the boy who cried wolf.

I only reported the spankings when my ex left bruises all over our son, which he's now done three times in a row, each one worse than the last. He lost custody of his other three kids for this exact same behavior.

Ooh, good point, especially

Ooh, good point, especially if SD knows that this sort of thing upsets you. You may never know for sure if that really happened, but it's something to keep in mind.

BM told him that, not SD. SD

BM told him that, not SD. SD was too hysterical to really relay any information.

Personally, I don't feel

Personally, I don't feel spankings cause permanent damage at all. But an emotionally cold parent is WAY worse than a parent who spanks. My mom was both and the spankings were effective, but the coldness caused more damage long term.

wellllll, I'm from the old

wellllll, I'm from the old school way of disciplining..i got spanked a few times as a kid and I'm not "damaged"...I think my parents did a great job with my brothers and myself...we KNEW if we did something that warranted a spanking...I believe in spankings, but not beatings....there IS a difference....

here, here! The worst

here, here! The worst behaved children are invariably the ones who never got a "reminder" of whose in charge (my 3 skids included).

I disagree with the old "spanking teaches a child to hit" theory. It's disproven every time I watch a young "no spank" mom in the grocery store as amazingly her early toddler reaches out and smacks her in the face--she quickly grabs the child's arm and states a very deliberate, yet gentle "no hitting." Which does NOTHING. which usually leads to a full blown tantrum where young mom attempts to REASON with and then quickly resorts to BRIBING the 18 month old.

agree agree agree^^^^^^^

I don't disagree that it can

I don't disagree that it can be effective. It's honestly not very effective with his kids. He used to spank them, but it never changed their behavior for more than a day or two.

Now that he's evolved in his parenting and found disciplines that work for them, we have very few (if any) behavioral issues with them at our house.

BM spanks regularly, which would imply that she has regular reasons to do so. We find that talking to them (not negotiating) and taking away privileges is WAY more effective than any form of physical punishment.

In my experiece the kids who

In my experiece the kids who are the most aggressive and bully their peers are all spanked and cussed out by their parents.

I see parents on the bus, subway...hit kids for doing normal kid stuff. I see kids hit other kids for accidentally bumping into them. They do not give the kid a chance to apologize. As soon as they are touched, they hit. I see parents do the same thing in stores. As soon as the kid touches some, the mom will hit the kid on the hand or up side the head. Those kids have been taught that any action that annoy, or pisses you off deserve a good wack. That learned behavior follows the kid to school. Then I spend my day breaking up fights because Johnny just has to hit if anyone bumps into him, touches anything that belongs to him or looks at him wrong.

I was spanked as a kid and spanked my son a few times for major things.

I'm not inherently opposed to

I'm not inherently opposed to spanking. I was spanked as a kid too. But not excessively.

BM was essentially trying to "beat" the truth out of SD .. how many times in one day do you spank a kid before you realize it's not effective (at least for that scenario)? She was literally hysterical and begging DH to forgive her for lying (even though he had no part in the spankings).

I have no problem with the

I have no problem with the punishment, if it works and doesn't leave a mark. But, it is not on your time, so you can not have an opinion.

I spanked my son a few times, and he turned out fine. If it keeps happening and the kid becomes a discipline problem, then DH should talk to the BM, but you would not want her butting in on how you are punishing a kid.

I was spanked & turned out

I was spanked & turned out fine. I only got like 5 spankings in my life that I remember. After that I knew to act right.

However, if I thought I could cry to my dad & he would punish my mom for spanking me when I did something wrong - no spanking wouldn't have worked.

I knew if I complained about it to my dad, he would stand up for my mom & say "don't want a spankin? don't lie."

Agree^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

BM told DH all of it. SD was

BM told DH all of it. SD was too hysterical to say anything. SD was on the phone for all of 30 seconds screaming and begging him to forgive her .. he could barely comprehend what she was even saying.

Mind you, this incident happened right after school (3pm). Spankings spanned a 3 hour time frame and she was still in hysterics at 8pm when she talked to DH.

I get that spankings CAN be effective; I'm not inherently opposed to them at all. Not my kid to choose how to discipline or not .. but it seems wildly excessive to traumatize a kid to that degree over something relatively minor. Yes, she should be punished for the lie .. but like that? Idk .. just seemed excessive to me.

According to BM, 4 full blown

According to BM, 4 full blown spankings over the course of about 3 hours.

Agree .. 7 is too old IMO.

Agree .. 7 is too old IMO. It never really worked for them anyway, not for long term results.

wow spankings were actually

wow spankings were actually most effective with my and my brother when we were 6-10 y.o. of course that could be cuz we never got them out of anger and dad was super-duper psychological with us!!!!

it was really where we learned cause and effect, and that it was OUR actions that resulted in this (lesson in personal responsibility)

he'd send us to our rooms and tell us to "think about what you've done." after about 15 mins or so, we'd hear him coming and the sound of your stomach dropping as he opened the door and came in. he'd give us the whole "this is gonna hurt me more than it hurts you" b.s. BUT then it'd be Q&A time- "do you know why this is happening?" yes because i did x,y,z. "when you chose to do x,y,z, did you know what would happen?" yes i'd get a spanking. "yet you chose to do x,y,z anyway?" yesss.... "do you think a spanking is worth doing x,y,z?" nooooooo..... "alright then. bend over." (spanking ensues, followed by waiting for the tears and sniffling to ease up.) "now what do you say?" i'm sorry i did x,y,z daddy... "alright. please next time make a better decision ok? now go get yourself cleaned up."

tortuous to a child, but brilliant, effective, and non-abusive. much older than that we didnt need much discipline, and the times that we did it was completely fitting to the crime (like bro at around 16 y.o bitching about his weekly turn at dish duty, a week was added on each time he ran his mouth- he ended up with 6m straight... )

Yeah, it was similar in my

Yeah, it was similar in my house growing up. I don't think spankings are ineffective in all cases; they just really don't seem to work with my skids. I'm not sure if it's a pain tolerance or what, but it really makes no recognizable difference to them. I do believe that BM follows her spankings with apologies .. so she's probably defeating her own game.

DH, well DH is just a big softy and hates to physically harm his children, even in the name of discipline. He's a police officer and sees too many of these cases get out of hand quickly .. especially with grown adults hitting children a fraction of their size.

Def spanking and beatings are

Def spanking and beatings are two different things... But also you have to stand your ground as a parent IMO. If you say "you will get spanked until you tell me what happened.." (off the cuff not thinking logically) you may have to keep on going for a bit! That is why you should always think it through before doling out a punishment. But all you know is what a very young child told you on the phone. I wouldn't take much stock into it until it becomes a repeated issue.

The spankings honestly seem

The spankings honestly seem excessive for BM. DH last spanked either skid over a year ago. He told BM about the issue and what happened, and they had a brief exchange on how the spankings no longer work. Since then, he's told BM each time we have an issue and the discipline he used. She does not do the same except in extreme cases like the one at hand.

I think it's got more to do with BM's new baby. SD7 is probably reaching for attention, and BM is exhausted/tired/angry. Who knows .. baby is just 2 weeks old, so I can imagine BM's patience is wearing thin. Which almost makes it worse IMO .. Can she control her anger or her reactions to bad behavior under the stress of a newborn and 2 existing children who still very much need/want her attention?

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