Where's the boundaries?
I have read plenty of messages about this situation, but I just had to add mine. I know many of you have written regarding the BM calling at all hours of the day or night "to talk about the kids." She does in fact call multiple times per day. Not only that, but her last phone call was 10:40 at night! It's never important. This particular phone call was to tell him something cute his 2YO said. So, after biting my tongue all day, I finally lost my cool with that last phone call. He has to answer every single time, and then he has to defend his actions to me "because he wants to hear about everything his kids do." He turns it around on me to make me feel bad, "you don't want me to have a relationship with my kids." I know for a fact that if my ex called at all hours of the day and night, he would be livid. He is a jealous man himself, and he is just lucky that I have no relationship with the ex, and any man I knew even remotely in my past has been completely written out of my life. I only get 1 person who ever calls me, a girlfriend of mine, and every time he asks who I am on the phone with!
So, we had a discussion about the issue. He wanted to know what the boundaries should be, like I should set those rules. He says "should I stop allowing phonecalls after 9?" He thinks that by not answering the phone, he is being a jerk. Remember, he is Mr. Niceguy, and can't stand to have anybody mad at him, especially the mother of his children. I told him I refuse to set any rules, that only he can control the boundaries, and he should be taking my feelings into consideration. We both acknowledged that she is lonely and her calls are excessive, and he "told her it was late," ya, like all sweet and stuff. I told him, his words mean nothing, only his actions do. He should have left the phone for the answering machine and only called her back if it was important, which it usually 99% of the time is not.
I've tried to tell him what it is like from the ex-wife's perspective. Not that she is trying to be an evil monster. She just wants to be a constant reminder that she is not going anywhere and that in order to get to his kids, he needs to go through her. She doesn't want him back romantically, and neither does he, but they share these kids, and so they have to communicate and it is better off for everyone if they stay friends. They are both nice people, and so he sees nothing wrong with her calling about anything anytime, especially when it concerns his children, but are there no boundaries besides the obvious sex thing?
I know I am sounding extremely insecure, and this makes me sick. I have never had to battle with feelings like this because I have never entered into the waters of a man with kids. I don't want him to be a dick to her. I want him to continue to respect her, but he can be firm without being a jerk about it. I think deep down, he gets off on the admiration he gets from being a nice guy. It feels good to be needed by 2 women. He says he is under more stress than I know, but I do know. I know that he is stressed out, but he brings this upon himself. He can't say no to anybody and then he wonders why he is stressed out! Doesn't he need to put things into perspective? If he wanted to hear about every little thing his kids do, then why did he choose to leave them in the first place. I'm sorry, but when you choose to leave your children (via divorce), then you choose to not be there every minute of the day. He has a very active relationship with his kids. His visitation is 4-day weekends twice a month, and she is always finding him other things to do throughout the week. This week alone he had to do things for her and the kids every day this week except for 2 days, which he had to spend working late to catch up.
I just have to learn to deal with this. She will never ever go away and I have to accept that, but I think I need to draw my own line in the sand as to what I will and will not accept. This does not bode well for our relationship. Some days I am just miserable trying to come to terms with being in a #2 position. I have no control over the situation, and sometimes it is just so unfair! I told him I do not like to have these feelings, but if he would just offer me a soft place to fall when this does happen and not fan the flames by answering every single phone call (especially the 10 pm ones), that maybe I can get through it. I don't think I got through to him. He did agree with me, but I think he was just pacifying me so he could end the argument. All in all, this was a minor argument, but he still thinks he is right, and I still think I am wrong (inferiority complex talking). I know I have a soft place to fall talking with all of you, and I thank you for reading.
Its wonderful that dh and bm can communicate.
NCP should have rights too!
Its wonderful that your dh and bm can communicate on a friendly basis,however, in life we set boundaries for even our friends. Dh and I dont take call's from ANYONE after 9pm in our home, because that is our time together.We have an answering machine, and indeed if it is an emergencey from anyone we will immediatly return the call, but it is nice to be able to make that choice at our discretion. There is nothing wrong with being a nice guy, I am married to one, but there are polite ways to set boundaries. Why not ask DH to tell bm that he cant accept calls after..... because he has not been getting enough rest and will on occassions go to bed early. You are right, bm will never go away, they have a child together, but that doesnt mean you or DH have to allow her into your home anytime she wishes. I can also understand that DH wants to hear about every little thing his children do or say( esp. if they are very young) but agian, the information that bm shares with him at 10:40 pm isnt going to change if she waits to share it with DH the next day. Just my opinion on something to, If DH is indeed such a nice guy as you say and doesnt like having anyone mad at him then why does he upset you? You should come first and have no question that that is your position in his life, then his children are next. Bm and her needs...come last. Remember that boundaries are set because we are being true to ourselves. Is DH really being true to who HE truly is and his life with you? IF nothing else, establish some boundaries for yourself, as stepmoms and 2nd wives, if we dont take care of ourselves first, noone else will.
I went through the same
I went through the same thing with my DH thinking that that type of communication with the ex was necessary for him to stay close to his kids. It took several years, counseling, lots of research, lots of soul-searching, and a couple of ultimatums to change the situation. The good news is that although that "enmeshment" with BM has changed, DH is still very, very close to his kids and very involved in their lives.
I think it is hardest when the kids are little, 2 as you say, b/c at that age there is some level of mom being the route to communicating with them. But calling to discuss cute things that the kids do is a no-no when there is a new significant other involved; DH has to accept that there are certain consequences of accepting someone new in his life, and that you deserve honor and respect. He thinks that he can live vicariously with his kids through BM, then he doesn't "miss out." But he does "miss out" --that's a consequence of choosing divorce. He needs to focus on cherishing the moments when it's his time with the kids, and focus on being a very present and involved dad at those time.
I'm going to be brutally blunt -- it's not him being a "nice guy;" I understand the personality trait you are referring to b/c my DH has it too. (I call it his "prep school personality".) But if he disrespects the boundaries that necessarily apply given your presence in his life, he is choosing to be nice to others but to disrespect you. He needs to be nice to you, first. He can respect you and stay actively and deeply involved with his kids -- but he does need to accept that, as a divorced parent who is re-involved, he will miss out on some stuff.
If counseling isn't an option, try slowly introducing him to a variety of materials on co-parenting and boundaries in a re-marriage. Many are available on the internet. I like the "common e-steps" on successfulstepfamilies.com They are very clear on these topics. And be prepared to have some patience, because it takes time. The emotions that DH feels about wanting to be very close to his children are very, very strong, and with my DH at least, he couldn't differentiate between those emotions and his relationship with BM. One just sort of equated to the other.
Having been there--and 1% of the time occasionally still being there--I feel for you. Good luck and keep venting!
here's an idea...
Tell him casually that you received a call from YOUR ex today and it was so nice to hear from him, you made closure spoke for over an hour etc., Don't make a big deal out of it, just say it as if it never occurred to you that it would bother him. The next day... Give your mom or best friend a call, and ask her to call you several times throughout the next few days but replace their number in your cell with name of your ex. If that won't work, you could try a bill collector, whomever will call repeatedly. Hell, give me your number, I'll call. The important point is to change the contact info associated with that number.
Leave the cell phone in plain view so that he see's the caller ID info. In fact, pick it up one night while you are in bed together and carry on a conversation with "your ex" while he's next to you.
If and when he complains, tell him that you will NOT live by a double standard. Either he compromises about calls from his ex (and you will too) or he can learn to live with it.
See what comes up.
I love your idea!
I'm always up for a good head game! LOL. Unfortunately, he and I both know I will never speak to my ex civilly again, so he's kind of home free on that one. There are a couple ex-boyfriends I wouldn't mind chit chatting with, but he says that there is no comparison. She only gets special consideration because she's the mother of his children. You are both correct, he is not being a "nice guy" to me when he is disregarding my feelings, and placing the blame on me for being angry. One day this could backfire on him. He can't make everybody happy all of the time and he may just learn that the hard way.
My BF now
turns off his phone when we are together, unless he is expecting a call from one of his kids directly. He figures if she doesn't leave a message it is not an emergency. But she does call all the time. Probably every day and sometimes more than once a day. Sometimes it's about the kids and sometimes it's not. I told him it's called emotional enmeshment. He asked on who's part? I told him probably her's because she's the one making the calls. But I also told him I think he doesn't mind the calls either - or he would put a stop to them. This is always a sore subject, but I do appreciate that he tells me about the calls. But I think you should definitely set up some boundaries in a mutual discussion. She should not be calling at all times of the day and night. If they feel they need to talk at least once a day to cover the day's activities, well then do it once a day and set up a time, such as when he's on his way home from work or to work and then it doesn't interfere in your time together. It is really rude of her to call him at 10:00 at night, she knows your probably together. But sometimes it doesn't make a bit of difference to the exes, some of them do it on purpose I think to just piss us off!
Tell him don't answer
We had this problem at the beginning of our relationship. BM would be at a basketball game and call every time SD did something. Riiiinnnng - SD made a basket! Riiiinnnng - SD got pushed! Riiiinnnng - they are up by 3! I had been very patient up to this point but on this day, I set the boundaries. Do not answer the phone if it is her in my presence. Period. It would change the entire flow of our time together after she called because I could hear the whole conversation through his cell. And I didn't feel as if I wanted to be privvy to the minute details of their children's life. And I felt this was an enfringement of my time with then BF (now DH) She learned to text message real quick after he stopped returning her calls over dumbs%&*t! This kind of stuff is really only interesting to two people, BD and BM, until you get to know the Skids, and sometimes not even then. If it is important, she will leave a message and you can call her back at a convenient time. It trains BM not to pick up the damn phone every two seconds over some BS just because they have no one else to talk to. Get a life!
I feel lucky
I feel very fortunate. We don't have that problem. When the kids want to call us, they call us, and we don't really have to worry about the BM so much, except for when it comes to her making them feel like they are doing something wrong for coming to our house and leaving her at home alone :(. Anyway, I would not stand for it, There has to be time for just the 2 of you and if the phone rings and he answers it while you are having "your" time, I would be furious. Turn the phone off or leave it off the hook, that way he doesn't have to feel bad if the phone is ringing and he doesn't answer it.
Find a man for her. Pay for
Find a man for her. Pay for an eharmony account for her. My husband's X got married. We sang "ding dong the witch is dead" all night long!
Not my experience
In my experience she isn't quieter when she has a man ... of course her man is my DH's ex-best friend ... they hooked up while he was in Iraq. Anyway, he actually causes more problems. I laugh because it is DH who should be spiteful toward him not vice versa.
Anyway, for your situation ... I'd have DH ask BM to email him if something cool happens with the kid. It is important to be in on those things and know when they happen, and it IS great that they can communicate. My SS4 just started writing his name ... she never told us ... that is something I would have hoped she would be excited to share with DH.
I would have DH ask her not to call after 9pm, unless it's an emergency. Also, I'd have DH ask her to limit her calls to once per day. Again, if she has something to share, that isn't an emergency, she can email it. There do have to be boundries.
~ Katrina
Me Too
Gosh, I've been where you are too! DH has his cell attached to his hip. The ex never left his side metaphorically. He'd say...I wear it for the kids! But guess what. They called 1 x in two years on that cell! She called anytime. Absolutely drove me mad....
And, the fights we had over this....I'm drained emotionally. He never got it. Sometimes I wish I never opened my mouth. I look like the insecure/jealous one....and I'm really not. I tried humor a few times...and made light of it, but that didn't work either.
The phone calls have stopped but I guess she just calls him on his work cell.
One day at time my friend.