Extracurriculars are written as.....
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In DH's agreement (we are going to court to get this charged) extra curriculars are written as:
AS ADDITIONAL child support, father shall pay 100% of mutually agreed upon activities.
Does this indicate that what he's been paying for extras is also considered child support or no?
"mutually agreed upon
"mutually agreed upon activities." Sounds like there is no additional support required.
DH does not agree, BM pays.
End of discussion.
Sorry... I'm asking about the
Sorry... I'm asking about the as additional child support. Would extra curricular costs be considered child support since it says "as additional child support"
No. That doesn't count as any
No. That doesn't count as any part of CS.
Ok thanks!
Ok thanks!
No - there is base child
No - there is base child support, and then there are extras. Usually people pay a base amount, plus child care, medical and extra for sports etc. BUT, he should calculate all the extra he's given her, so it's clear how much he's spent.
I do hope he invokes the "I don't agree" part of that clause often.
If you are asking if he can
If you are asking if he can subtract any "extracurricular" payments from his "set" child support payment.. No.
Example.
He is ordered to pay $900/month for child support... and as additional child support.. 100% of mutually agreed upon activities.
He and EX agree that Skid can take riding lessons to the tune of $400/month. that is Additional Child Support.. as in addition to the 900. So.. he is now paying $1300/month.. not 900.
I believe the intent is that CS covers base living expenses for the child.. and any extracurriculars will be paid on top of that from his money (I'm assuming he is the larger wage earner and NCP with probably just EOWE custody with the odd vacation week or so)
If he doesn't want to pay more than his CS obligation.. he should not agree to any extracurriculars... if he doesn't agree.. it sounds like BM is on her own for covering 100% of the cost. (though.. I'm not sure if he could "gift" her money if he felt like paying "some" towards it"... a side agreement per se.
No I'm just wondering if
I'm just wondering if since it's written as "as additional child support" instead of "in addition to child support" if his 100% contribution to extra curriculars is considered child support since its stated "as additional" it's confusing wording.
No they have joint legal and physical with about a 40/60 spilt. This is the agreement between them when they first separated and she had been abusing it big time. This was based on her making zero income and now she's making 6 figures but still expects him to pay and asking for thousands of dollars in reimbursement if things he never even agreed to (no we are not paying that) so since we started the lawsuit child support will be adjusted to what it's supposed to be with the state calculation. So, I'm wondering if the "as additional" will be calculated to. For instance, if the judge grants 50/50 to spilt extra curriculars will it be readjusted like the child support and she will owe him 50%. Sorry... it's confusing! Lol
So as an example: if DH pays $2000 in child support and we started a lawsuit in September. We go to court in say March and the judge calculates child support should have been $1000. Since the start of the lawsuit, they will backtrack and "credit" DH the extra $1000 a month from the time of the lawsuit to the time of the hearing.
he has also paid 100% for extras as "as additional child support" so say the judge says thats not fair. It should be 50/50 since they both make a lot of money, since it's written as "as additional" will he also be credited the 50% from start of lawsuit to hearing. Does that make sense???
I doubt they will really go
I doubt they will really go back and recalculate obligation for past extra curriculars.
The wording does say that the payment for EX C are Child Support.. "additional child support".
If the judge determines that the order should be 1000/month and 50/50 on mutually agreed EX C.. then there is a chance he may do a look back at what your DH has spent over and above and give credit for 50% of the fees he has paid as well... but I am not totally optimistic about that really happening.
Honestly, it seems that in so many cases.. men don't get the reductions they expect.. don't get it retroactive like they want etc..
If you want to track what he has spent and have it as part of his disclosures.. that's fine. but the judge will ultimately determine what he wants to allow for credits if he allows any credit at all.
Does your lawyer believe there is a strong basis for reduction of CS obligation and future sharing of Extracurriculars?
They said the judge can
They said the judge can pretty much do whatever. I'm just trying to figure it all out so I understand better. If the judge decides to keep things as they are, we are screwed!! DH had good intentions when he signed it but the lifestyle she expects is out of our budget. It's grieb substantially and he just can't keep up. We will be in debt until they are 18 but that's what he stupidly decided on so yeah. It would suck. He would just have to keep saying he can't afford the extra things she wants. I really hate how she gets away with literally everything and DH was just trying to be the good guy and gets totally screwed. It's awful!
honestly, it sounds like you
honestly, it sounds like you would be better off with him paying 100% on what he agrees on.. vs potentially having to split everything that she may sign them up for... whether he agrees or not? possibly.
he can say no.. that is his option. he does not have to fund all the extras.. they are optional.
She harassing him, tells the
She harassing him, tells the kids he won't do whatever it is, she causes such a complete root over everything and anything! We just can't keep paying for all of this. It's killing us but it sounds like judges really don't care about the dad from what I have heard. I have heard stories of dads going completely bankrupt trying to keep up with court ordered child support, working 2/3 jobs to try and pay and the judge just keeps ordering more snd more. It's really upsetting.
have you done a calculator to
have you done a calculator to see if he is overpaying CS
Yes. He is severely
Yes. He is severely overpaying but because it's a contract the judge doesn't have to change it if he doesn't want to. DH signed this contract when they first split years ago and he had good intentions but the kids lifestyle just got more extreme and it's a struggle and he's asking to recalculate. HCBM is also making 6 figures where she was hardly making a salary 5 years ago when it was signed. But, if the judge feels like it's fair then it may not change and we will continue to struggle while HCBM continues to thrive. It's disgusting.
If BM has delayed the suit
If BM has delayed the suit then you may be lucky and get credit for over payment back to the start of the suit. In our case the Spermidiot refused delivery of his court summons, physically ran from the Constable who was serving him in person, and never showed up nor participated in the CS review. The DA asked my DW for as much information on the Spermidiot as she could provide and ultimately his CS was increased from $133/mo to $785/mo and direct payfoll withholding was ordered. When he got his first $0.00 pay check he ran screaming to court to try to get the new CS amount reset back to the $133/mo. Because of his refusal to accept delivery of the summons and then running from the Constable the CS review took nearly 2 years. So.... he had to pay the $785/mo for two years at which point his CS dropped to $385/mo.
It is rare that the NCP's CS is ever lowered. I think the only thing you can do is to stop all payments to BM beyond the CO'd CS level of $2000. Once the new CS order is implemented, pay not one penny more than the CO stipulates. No matter what the circumstance of BM asking for more money may be. If the court does not put it in the CO, don't pay it.
Yeah he pays nothing over
Yeah he pays nothing over what's in the agreement. Not a dime. The issue is what's in the agreement when he stupidly signed it 5 years ago is too hard to keep up with! It states CS and 100% extra curriculars and medical. Two kids needing braces $5000 each, she wants them in travel sports $2000 each, camps that are $700-1000 a WEEK! She says they deserve the best and he has to fight her tooth and nail. Then she tells the kids he won't pay for it. No he CAN'T pay for it. She is not the NCP. They have joint legal and physical.
DH needs to flip the script.
DH needs to flip the script. He needs to tell the SKids that BM is the one who refuses to pay for it after he has given her the money to pay for it.
He stays on that message and then shows the SKids how he pays $2K/mo and reviews the spreadsheet of what he has paid to BM over the years. BM will be hard pressed to show the kids anything remotely similar to that. Facts, numbers, and repeat the message.
I would love to be a fly on the wall when DH has reviewed the comprehensive spreadsheet of what he has paid to their mother for their support. "I already gave your mom the money for that. Ask her." and the SKids start asking.
By my SWAG on what he has paid to BM over 5 years at $2K/mo plus braces, camps, sports, etc... we are talking well over $130K. "I have given your mom over one hundred and thirty thousand dollars for you kids. Ask her where the money is to pay for your camps, etc... I have already given her that money and I give her that money every month. Remember the spreadsheet we reviewed."
Have the bank statements ready to review if BM tries to claim otherwise. Hopefully DH has the canceled checks or can get the comprehensive print out from his bank for those transfers to BM's account.
I would not let this crap go uncountered. Hopefully there will be some sanity injected into this situation by the courts. But lower your expectations so you won't be disappointed with the outcome in Court. Either way, no more paying BM for shit for anything other than CS and what is clearly COd. If it is not clear, interpret to the advantage of your side and force clarification from the Court. All while vectoring the kids back to BM with the latest numbers from the ongoing spreadsheet of what DH has paid to their mother on their behalf.
Facts are neither good not bad, they are merely facts. Make sure the Skids have the facts.
The SpermClan in our blended family drama repeatedly would harp on SS about how they had paid for our new homes, new cars, his nice clothes, etc..... and could not provide those things to SS's three also out of wedlock Spermidiot spawned half sibs by two other baby mamas because of SS. So, we went spreadsheet all over their asses.
After that.... SS started learning their tells for bullshitting him and increasingly started calling them on it in real time while he was on SpermLand visitation. The older he got, the less he tolerated their manipulative crap. KIds who are left to the devices of a manipulative parent without the facts rarely grow to an adulthood free of that manipulation. My SS does not have to deal with it as an adult because he learned how to identify it and confront it when he was in his teens. He trained his SpermClan how he would be treated and he has held them to that lesson as an adult. For the most part, they avoid him because he does not tolerate their crap. Sadly, his three younger half sibs are hip deep in the slime represented by the shallow and polluted half of their gene pool and are all the minions of their SpermGrandHag. However, now only one of the 4 are under her direct influence. SS put all of their crap behind him long ago, #3 is in prison, and #4 left the week after his older brother went to prison to live with his BM's family on the opposite coast. Only #2 has anything to do with the SpermGrandHag and even she detests their idiot father. Sadly, #3 and #4 worship the Spermidiot and are actively pursuing his dream of GangBanger glory though he has always remained a gangbanger wannabe.
Your Skids need the same lessons and they need the facts in order to be able to identify BM's crap. THe most clear picture of that is ... the spreadsheet.
IMHO of course.
same issue....
I recently was made aware that in my husbands divorse decree that he is to pay 70% of all extra circular activitives, and 70% of medial bills. BM just keeps signing the child up for all activities related to sports, and we have to pay.
Ummm. No you don't have to pay.
Though it may not be in the wording of the CO, your SO as a parent has the ability to veto a sports/extra curricular activity if he so chooses. I would implement an NCP empowering interpretation of the CO and make "NO!" the primary response to anything more than a single sport or extracurricular per season not to exceed 3 per year. One per school semester and one summer activity. Tthough.... extracurriculars being related to the school year.... I would serviously consider taking the position that CS covers summer activities and BM pays for anything activity wise during the summer because DH already has paid her for those activities with his CS payments.
As for medical bills, same thing. If they are legitimate medical services, that he determines are legitimate after speaking with HIS doctor.... pay the 70%. If it is BM just being a dick... the answer is not only no but hell no.
If she wants to make an issue over his being assertive, see her in court.
In our case, though the CO said they got to stipulate their 5wks of summer visitation as long as they gave us 60 day prior notice, as SS got older we would black out some dates over the summer for his summer activities and.... our own vacations. "Sorry, he is not available at that time. He is available during X-Z dates and L-P dates." If they had an issue with that.... "Fine, we will see you in court." They hever took us up on the court offer and if they had, they would not have gotten a court date in time to do anything about the summer visitaiton shedule. We never denied them their full summer visitation, but we did deny them the requested dates on a fairly regular basis as SS started to develop his own life and summer interests or if we had specific plans for the dates they demanded.
"Tough shit" is an effective toxic blended family opposition management tool.