Is it wrong to not let skids see bs if they won't see me?

Forums:

I am a home wrecker. My husband and I met 15 years ago and both of us left our spouses and we moved to another town about 6 hours away. He had three daughters who were 5, 10 and 12. I had no children. The BM did not allow the children to be around me for 7 years. The BH would go to visit the girls but it was limited because they were not allowed to visit his home. Then when skids BM was getting remarried she forced the 12 year old and the 17 year old to stay with us for a week while she was on her honeymoon and it just happened to coincide with the week that I was giving birth to my only son. It worked out ok - the older one did not talk to me but the younger one stayed for 6 weeks. Eventually, things got better with all three. We had dinners. They would come and stay with us. We took them on vacations/cruises etc. They were cordial to me and although I always knew that there were resentful feelings, I also felt we had a decent relationship. The middle sd comes to our house regularly to get advice from me. The ysd hugs and kisses me telling me how much she loves us all. When they are around BS, they love on him with fervor. Recently, we were all visiting the "hometown." I had my parents to visit and the girls were with their mother. They called BH and said that they wanted my son and BH to have lunch but did not want me to come along. I got on the phone and said, I am in the car - what is the problem? They told me that I needed to understand that there were hurt feelings from what I did to their family and they wanted to just have a lunch with the four kids and the dad. I said no. I told her that I was confused on why it was ok to vacation with me, stay at my home, go to countless dinners but all of a sudden there was a problem such that I would be disinvited to lucnh. I told them that my son will not be subjected to being split from his mother and put in the middle. If they did not want to be a part of our family, they could see just their father but my son and I were a joint package. My husband is begging me to back off. They are now standing strong against me saying that they only want to have a relationship with their brother who they profess to love dearly even though they have never sent him a B-day present, have never called him and don't show up when they promise him. I don't believe it is healthy for him to hear that his mother can't come along and I just can't stand that thought of being left out from my own child. I have had huge remorse and guilt from splitting up the family. Frankly, did not realize the effect until too late and really after my son. But I can't live in a state of punishment forever. My husband just called and asked if he could take our son to visit sd. I said no - she can arrange a time when I am home and visit our family or she can visit husband. Am I wrong?

I'm not sure this is a right

I'm not sure this is a right or wrong thing so much as a "what will work thing". I don't think it's fair for the girls to ask that you be specifically excluded. I think in your shoes I would not stand quite so firm.

Like the lunch thing, rather than say something that is heard as "I'm here, I'm a package with your brother, you have to accept me"

maybe something like " Oh sorry, that's just not going to work out, we're all over here shopping together as a family. You are welcome to join us for lunch if you like."

If/when they say no- don't ask why- just say "oh ok- maybe next time then."

Just flat out don't give them the power to make you feel the way they did that day. I know that had to hurt your feelings.

And hubby needs to stop asking that crap, if he and son are out near the girls already and the girls ask for a get together....what's the harm? But he needn't make special plans without you. And he is the one who needs to make it clear to the kids that they may not like how the family got started BUT one still needs to operate with decorum in situations that one doesn't necessarily favor.

If you stay one the path you are on, it's very likely that you could be seen as holding your son as some sort of "hostage" for their acknowledgment. That puts you in an unfavorable light.

"The beauty of life is, while we cannot undo what is done, we can see it, understand it, learn from it and change, So that every new moment is spent not in regret, guilt, fear or anger, but in wisdom, understanding, and love." -Jennifer Edwards

I see what you're saying, I

I see what you're saying, I was thinking if it happens now and again (definitely not thinking every weekend or even once a month- but those times that arise serendipitously, where it would be easy for dad to spend time with the girls- whether he has son with or not) then no one can throw a stone at sm- she's not there by coincidence, so what does it really matter who attends the lunch or whatever it is.

Kind of a pick your battles attitude about it. If sm is already not there, then no one is hurt and the people enjoying each other's company all benefit. I think the line rests at the "exclusion" part.

The children should not be allowed to exclude (I think)- but I think it will only hurt sm in the lng run if she's the one enforcing that line. Hubby has to do that- so if the kids called for lunch and found out he was close by and asked to get together, he could say yes. If they ask "can we go out to lunch but only if sm isn't with you" he should decline as their behavior and attitude toward the family is unpleasant"

It's a fine line I know, and using a generic situation is waaay easier than application in real life. But I have found appearing to have "dropped the rope" in the tug of war can sometimes actually cause a win.

Hubby did not go to lunch

Hubby did not go to lunch without me but he did beg me in front of his adult children to allow him to. UGH. I gave up long ago thinking he would be different. Great h in many respects but not this. I love the dropped the rope line. I think I will use that in the future. Thank you for your advice.

Begged you to allow him????

Begged you to allow him???? Is he 12? Way to make you look bad...sheesh He is supposed to be and act like your partner.

I appreciate your

I appreciate your temperance. I wished I felt it in my heart right now but I honestly don't. I don't want my son to be a hostage but I don't necessarily want their acknowledgement. I guess it is just a line that I have in my mind that makes me sane. I have felt so guilty for so long and Catholic Guilt Syndrome has plagued me. But when my son was born I was no longer sorry. He made it worth all the heart break. What I came down to was that I spent 7 years where he would go and visit them and I was left out. I was ok with that because of the guilt. I am still ok with him doing this but more because I know it makes him happy to see his daughters. But the next 7 years they all joined our family and it was 7 years of all of us together. I am ok if they want to go back to the 7 years of no SM but I can't emotionally handle it being my son and husband going with them and me being left at home. It makes me sick to my stomach. They have obviously seen father/son when I was unavailable but they are now taking a stand that this is the only way that they will see him. All of a sudden (weekend with BM), I am back to day one. If they have that much hatred for me, they will put that on my son. My husband is a peacemaker - he will not stand up for me. I accept his personality and don't expect much. SDs made it clear that they want a relationship with their brother and their father but not me and then wailing and wailing because I won't let them see their brother. I agree that being more passive is best but this is a bright line that even if it is wrong - I will be compelled to keep. I wrote them a nice e-mail about how sorry I was for the beginning and how I wished things were different but at the end of the day they had to have minimal respect for the fact that BS was attached to me. I know it puts me in a bad light but I am owning it. I hate to admit that even if everyone says I am wrong - i couldn't live like that. I would rather divorce the love of my life than go through the agony of allowing them access to my son knowing the degree of hatred. The irony is that then he would get to do what they want.....

What is sas?

That is a big problem for

That is a big problem for me. There is so much hatred from the 3. I don't want him bathing in it. When I am around, it is ok because I remove him when they start going after each other or their father. But I don't want him to pick. I will pick for him in that circumstance.

I really like your post.

I really like your post. Great advice and keeps the door open for all.

I have been treated like I

I have been treated like I was the one who broke up the family. It was really BM's boyfriend who shattered the lovely family unit. Dont beat yourself up..I like how you stand your ground.The BM is the one who sets the family atmosphere for the skids. Just recently my DH confronted BM's BF after being divorced for 10 years & told the dude...you should have to pay for alot of the stuff your paying for...& I agree. BTW...10 years after the divorce ...BM & her BF are still not married & live in seperate households with plans to marry someday....ha!

I have used the same phrase

I have used the same phrase that hating me is more important than loving their brother. My husband just wants peace and he wants the weakest link to cave. It has often been me because I just want peace so I don't fight the fight. However, I will never under any circumstance allow my son to be in a situation that it is either be with mom or be with sisters/dad. I do feel bad because it would be easier on my husband if I gave in. But I will never give in.

I don't necessarily think

I don't necessarily think you should give in. I think the weak link here is your husband. Would he be willing to go to some assertiveness training or couples counseling or anything like that?

I am so sorry to hear his

I am so sorry to hear his kids behave that way. As adults that's totally on them, I don't know how people can be happy when they are so vile to others. For adult sk, I would make the same call.

Stand your ground, Its

Stand your ground, Its completely wrong of them to ask for you to be separate from your son and completely hypocritical on their part considering they went on vacation and visit your home. BUt someting tells me , the visit was also with the mom and they didn't want you there because of what you did.
My personal opinion. It takes two to tango and if they hate you and dont have to same resentment on their father, they are hypocrites..but i digress...a parent can be forgiven but a stranger can be hung till dead. Right? That is what steps are, outsiders. And if we do something we are never forgiven.
I completely understnad the hate they have for you. You are a homewrecker but that is not in discussion. Its your son and i agree with you 100% to not separate fromyour son. Its not healthy for your son to see you accept this segregation.
I would tell them exactly what you said, come see him at the house ANd when your son gets older he can then see them on his own when he is an adult. Not early.
I realized last night that my sd has been asking my husbnad for our son to come for the drive to see them. He has said no every time. Why? Because he said what you just said in yoru previous post. you want ot see him, come at the house. He doesn't have to take a 3 hour drive to see you. ANd my dh keeps telling her that. I know my skids love their brother too, but they also dont call, dont send bday cards but i know that's because of their mom. She wont tolerate that connection between the houses. I'm dealing with an insecure jealous bm. But i dont have the homewrecker over my head. That is a tough one to deal with. And unfortunately you will have to deal with it when your son gets older cause i'm sure the kids will tell him. But your son wont be hateful to you...he's your son and will never side with them.
Tellyour husband its end of discussion and if he ever does the meeting behind your back he'll pack his bags and go back to his duaghters and ex. Make it VERY CLEAR to him.

It is a difficult situation.

It is a difficult situation. You say you have deep regret and remorse but to them that might be like a person feeling so bad they stole a car but they are still driving it around town. I can understand their feelings but also yours as pertains to your child. Of course, it is your dh's child too and he should get some input into what he does as well. Have you all had some counseling with this kids and an opportunity to tell them you are sorry and know it was wrong. I could see why you would not want to have your kid grow up thinking you are so distasteful you can't be in their presence. Afterall, while I know there is more forgiveness among family members, your dh is the one that most let them down as he is the one who left them/their Mom in the way he did. By taking your son with him it might send the message to your son that you were more culpable in the affair. I think allowing him to go see the daughters on his own is a fair compromise. If they want to see the son you will be there too, they don't have to be bff with you but cordial just like they will need to do lifelong with people they may not wish to be around.

I actually have already

I actually have already started to tell him at 7.5 because I don't want it coming from them. At this point I just said that his sisters really wanted to have his parents be together forever. They don't like Mama very much because they feel it is all my fault that they are not still married. I told him that hurt feelings are tough. I will explain more as he gets older. Too many people know and I don't want him learning it from others. The problem is that he argues and says Mama - they love you. Remember...... and he gives memories. We have had many many laughs and fun. I know what happened. The BM did not want the girls to be seen with me in the town. It is a small town and even though it has been 15 years, and she is on her third marriage and exceptionally happy - it is her line. I actually don't mind that. I would have been fine with the statement - not here. But heels are now dug in and they said many hurtful things and now they won't see us for Christmas. I think they spent Thanksgiving and the mother told them all "her" story now that they are all adults. The girls have been told that it was all my fault. The BM has repeatedly told my husband he was brainwashed. She said their marriage was perfect. The reality is that we were typical people too chicken to leave situations without someone to do it. The first thing he ever said to me is "I am dangerous because I really want out of my marriage." It is not admirable but it is reality for many. As my son gets older, I will let him know our story and the negative side too. I will let him know how many people we hurt (small town and my mom/sisters live there). I don't mind letting him know that there is a lesson to be learned from his parents mistakes. We should have had the guts to do it right. But at 28 - I was in a very bad relationship and I was so excited to have someone love me (ok - we all know what it was) that I did not care what I did to anyone else. We have asked counseling - no way. We have explained but that doesn't work well because they really believe that their parents were 100% happy. Perhaps after they have been married for 20 years, they will understand it is hard. Thanks for all the advice and support. This has been a God send because there are not people to discuss these things with that understand. My family all thinks I am right but are not dealing with skids and all the other issues.

Enough sackcloth and ashes.

Enough sackcloth and ashes. Put away the whip. Yeah, DH was married when you met him. It's not the best way to start a marriage but BM didn't own him and you didn't "steal" him. You can't steal a human being. You both had "exit affairs." I don't like how you blame yourself for "splitting up" the family. Where is DH's responsibility? He took the vows, not you! Anyway, BM is happy now, good for her.

OK, on to the stepdaughters. They still have conflicts over it (read some of Stepmonster's blog, she explains this well, loyalty bind). You can't do anything about it. Your DH could help by explaining how he was very unhappy and planning to leave and it's not YOUR fault. But--not your problem.

You are right, after establishing relationships and expectations, to suddenly change to DELIBERATELY exclude you, is where the line in the sand is. They are playing a power trip on your DH. Can you explain that to DH? It would be good to gracefully "avoid" the situation as some posters suggested. But you put your foot down because you were on the spot and you didn't have a choice, in my view. They actually said, "don't bring juju" How f'n rude is that? Why didn't they come over to your mother's house?

If you have to, find a good counselor (check them out first) and talk this over with DH in a session. Lay out the ground rules that protect your family and encourage a HEALTHY relationship, not a sick one, with those girls.

I agree, I also didn't like

I agree, I also didn't like the opening sentence "I am a homewrecker"....you may have wrecked your home (and it was your choice to do so). But you did not wreck "the perfect family"- sorry to be so blunt- your husband did that. He was the one that made vows to that woman/family...they are shifting their hurt from what he did onto you.

I think maybe if counseling can't happen, then maybe a big "come to jesus" meeting when you can next get the kids over.

They can explain why exactly they could love you and treat you nice for a period of time and then do a 360 and can't stand having you around...

I suspect that mom has said or done something recently that makes them feel obligated to exclude you.

You are here

Is it wrong to not let skids see bs if they won't see me?