seeking advice about how to ease home situation for DW
My DW can't stand when my kids come every other weekend and for long holiday visits, and I would really like to try to make things better for her if it is within my control. I have been reading some quite lengthy forum posts about similar situations, but I have not really seen any constructive suggestions for making things better. I'm not going to stop seeing my three kids (ages 7,9,12). I love them and would gladly take full custody if it were an option. I think I'm a good father, I don't think I fall into the "Disney Dad" character, and although I still feel some guilt about my divorce I don't feel that guilt is what drives me to do things with my kids. I grew up in a divorced family and dad worked all the time, and I felt bad about it. I decided when my kids are here I'm not going to work, I'm going to spend quality time with them as much as possible. When my DW first entered our lives, she seemed like such a warm, fun, loving woman, and she really seemed to love my kids. But over time she has become withdrawn and apprehensive about my kids coming to visit. Her two kids (13 and 16) live with us full-time. I don't expect her to be a maid or disciplinarian for my kids, I am self-sufficient and enjoy taking care of my kids. She says there is no "us" when they are here, but there used to be in the beginning, it just became so because she withdrew. When she does join us, my kids love doing things with her. I think DW is suffering from depression, but she won't seek treatment because she thinks it isn't the problem. She took anti-anxiety meds so she could join us for Thanksgiving, and they helped, but she still doesn't accept that as evidence of needing treatment and gets angry when I suggest it. I was wondering what some others here might have tried to ease the stress of having their children visit? I've tried taking my kids elsewhere for an entire weekend or holiday before, but she doesn't like that either. Any ideas are appreciated.
This exactly! I had a major
This exactly!
I had a major blow out with SO a couple of years ago.
SO could not show the skids that I was important to him. He wanted to make sure skids liked him. He had to make sure skids were #1, even if it meant pushing me further and further away when they were visiting.
When we were dating, things seemed fine. Once he moved with me, I began to realize I was being demoted to servant on skid weekends. I was to be seen not heard. My opinion didn't matter. Everything was about the skids and none of it was my business. When the younger 2 skids became teens, it got worse!
It did not go over very well. He was living under my roof and I was being treated like an unwanted outsider in my own home. I made it clear that his behavior and treatment of me had to end. By the time Christmas 2014 came along, I decided to treat SO the way he treated me. SO was hurt that I would treat him and his in such a manner!
It's still a sore spot for me!
I'm wondering if your view of
I'm wondering if your view of how they behave and how you behave when they are around, is the same as your wife's? I would bet it's different, in that you are the "fun, weekend dad" and things are different on their weekends.
And your line "she seemed like such a warm, fun, loving woman" is the reason so many of us are on this board. We got into these relationships thinking our spouse was actually going to parent, to enforce rules and limits, to stand up for us when he should, to be a barrier between us and the BMs, to SEE how his kid(s) are possibly rude and/or disrespectful, and not expect us to do their job for them.
PS - I actually think it's a
PS - I actually think it's a good sign and very sweet that you are here, OP. I just don't know if it's actually possible for you to understand what SMs feel...especially when it comes to being an outsider in their own home.
I think it's nice he's here
I think it's nice he's here too, hopefully he'll get another perspective.
That said, I withdrew pretty darn hard (i.e. disengaged) last year, when we all moved into our new home. I spent a lot of time by myself, got out of the house when SDs were there as much as I could (he has 50/50 so it was hard), stopped helping and cleaning up, giving rides, etc.
Everyone noticed and DH confronted me about it pretty darn angry last winter.
I withdrew because DH didn't enforce any rules/behavior expectations at all - in fact he didn't even have any. It was exhausting being the maid, rule (tried) setter, follow-upper.
...because DH expected me to "mother" them, i.e. be there to run errands for them, pick them up when needed, drop off when needed, basically when he didn't feel like it, often with little or no notice.
...because I was buying a h*ll of a lot of stuff for them (food, clothing, extras) and DH/BM were not.
...because DH wouldn't plan anything and expected me to do so. And if they didn't want to do it in the end, the could cancel. With little to no notice.
...because there were (and still is) food issues/meal planning issues and I was expected to solve them.
...because he couldn't say "no" to them in any situation. Or say, "you must" or "have to."
And so on.
DH is a guilty parent. He didn't have good role models and doesn't understand expectations/independence making skill learning (i.e. skids should know how to do their own laundry by age 13). BM kept SDs away from him for over a year during the divorce and he's still trying to make up for that, esp. with SD13. He doesn't think he guilt-parents either. But he does.
He wants to be fun and friendly and fair. But F me. I am not covering for that.
DH is better now, and I am still mostly disengaged from SD13 and certain general SD related things. Our relationship is better. I talk with DH when I'm upset about something and he may not like hearing it but he'll listen. I'm betting there's more to the OP's story...
What are her exact
What are her exact complaints? We see that there is no "us" when your kids are there. Mr. Cornmuffin, that is a very common and valid complaint and you've dropped a few clues about how very valid that complaint might be.
What else?
It will be easier to give suggestions if we hear specifics.
We can see you're trying to be both a great dad and a great husband. That's something to work with. Thumbs up.
But if your normally fun wife has become a shadow of herself and this "retreat" and darkness are tied to the presence of your kids, there's quite likely some real step-related stuff going on.
We can help you suss it out, if you're will to tell us more.
Agreed, 100% with Fruity!
Agreed, 100% with Fruity!
Soooo, in a first marriage
Soooo, in a first marriage with kids, the husband and wife are a unit and the kids are incorporated into family life. Husband and wife still talk, cuddle, kiss, hug, spend time together when the kids are home. In fact, in a first marriage, the parents will send the kids to bed or tell them to go play by themselves, when the parents want alone time. Do you do any of this when your kids are there?
I also suspect that you spend every free moment with your kids. When you are working when they are not there- do you work long hours? Do you ever have a date night with your wife when your kids are there (babysitter?).
Do you expect your wife to put up with noise, running, jumping, yelling daddy, daddy, daddy all the time? Do your kids stay up to all hours because you cannot bear to spend one second of precious visitation time without them?
Do you spend time in a different room, or different corner of a room, whispering and talking to your kids when they are there?
Do your kids get to take over the living room/family room, sprawl on the furniture, and watch what they want the entire time they are there? Does your wife have to go into the bedroom to get some downtime?
Do you expect your wife to cook/clean/be the maid when they are there?
Do you not have sex because you are worried your kids will here, or because you are up to all hours while your wife goes to bed?
Talk to your wife ask her
Talk to your wife ask her what things you can do to make her feel more comfortable when your kids are there. Find out what makes her feel uncomfortable or resentful. Try to find solutions to help releave these pressures. Then do them. Then keep talking to your wife. And keep trying to make changes to what you are doing. Then talk some more and make more changes. By continually and repeatedly talking and discussing and acting on these discussions you show your wife she is your priority and make her well being and comfort a priority for you. Also make sure that you two get alone time or date nights every now and then. We can give you all the advice in the world but we don't know all the ins and outs of your situation. Only you and your wife can work on this.
You leave the kids with DW
You leave the kids with DW and go off to work - how do you know it's going at home, kids might be rude to her and refuse to do things, then you come home after work and reward your kids with ignoring DW and spending all your time with your rude children......
If you wanted to spend 24/7 with your kids, you never should've divorced, and worst re marry..... you put your wants and your childrens wants before the DW... you can be glad I'm not her... I would've left you a long time ago..
If I were you I would ask DW
If I were you I would ask DW what she would think if you treated her children as she behaves towards yours? What would she think if you withdrew from her children ... which would make a much more notable point since they live with you.
A simple question that could very well set up very pointed discussion when DW begins her seemingly usual behavior when your children are scheduled for a visit.
I would not tolerate it were I you and would keep it in her face regularly until she steps up and deal with it including getting some help.
IMHO of course.
anotherstep - why are you
anotherstep - why are you shocked with this reply?
Rags is a guy - he did not read.... he simply gave advice to the poster and only scanned the piece lol
typical male - he wanted to get to the other blogs... cause yes men like gossip more then woman and they are way more curios then woman...
Guilty as charged on
Guilty as charged on scanning.
My bride and my mom both ping me fairly regularly on keeping my mouth shut and listening rather than immediately going to problem solving with limited information.
I have much to learn.
at least you can admit the
at least you can admit the truth...
so give us your personal view on it after you read it carefully... do you still agree with the dude?
nothing wrong if you do,
Okay, and without the
Okay, and without the bluster.
The OP wants to figure it out. That is a good thing. The DW is avoiding and not wanting to address the issues. That is a problem.
I suggest that the OP does put it into a discussion with his SO that he wants to make it better for her but ... also ask her how she would feel if he took the same approach with her resident kids as she takes with his visiting kids.
Joint counseling for both the OP and his SO should be investigated as should her avoidance of a medicated approach to lessening her anxieties. It seems to work when she does it (referencing the TG experience) but she seems to actively deny that she has a problem. This makes the OP and his kids her victim I think.
My concern for the OP and his kids is that his SO will not engage and that ... is a sad thing and does not bode well for the longivity of the relationship.
Whew, now that was not so bad for me to do. I had to slow down the brain and the fingers to make it happen. And read to listen and not to speak. Not an easy thing for me.
Regards,
Rags
now I can agree
now I can agree
rags, i always love your
rags, i always love your advice but this time i think you're way off base. it appears the dw has disengaged, why? we dont know, but as a result when his kids are there the family feels disjointed. there is a reason for this, and BOTH the op and his dw need to work on their communication skills with eachother so they can get to the bottom of this. keeping it in her face is only going to be taken as highly antagonistic which would NOT help improve ANYTHING.
Noodles, I agree that I can
Noodles,
I agree that I can often be over the top and less than helpful.
I will work on it.
Regs,
Rags
Lol. Actually many of them
Lol.
Actually many of them I have done though often not with quite the direct and abrasive tones that I often take online. However, fortuneately there are many situations that I comment on that I have not had to address IRL because I am selective about the people I retain in my life, we communicate and address issues in a timely manner rather than letting them fester into toxic cesspools of wasted time, emotion, and effort and the people in my life and I work through things together.
If I have done them, I say that I have. Others are just opinion and recommendations based on how I address issues.
It boggles my mind how many people accept things in their lives and struggle so mightily with dealing with them. Like anyone else I often build a problem up in my mind to be much bigger than it ultimately is found to be when I confront it.
I take similar perspectives in both my personal and professional lives. I regularly mentor young professionals on a considered, analytical, and professional approach to problem solving. I have some awards for it on my office walls. I could apply some of my own lessons in how I comminicate here I suppose.
So, somewhat guilty as charged on some things though far from a fantasy.
OP - I'm also wondering about
OP - I'm also wondering about your statement that you don't expect your spouse to clean up after skids or do things for them...you like taking care of them and being self-sufficient where they are concerned.
In theory, I think that's very good. Certainly better than assuming that your wife will and should "mother" kids who aren't hers. I'm wondering, though, how this plays out in reality...what this looks like to her.
When you deal with the kids, do you send her the message that her opinions and input are not needed or valued? Are you a one-man crew? My DH has been this way in the past (and even now, at times, though he has gotten better)...and then can't understand why I'd be hurt since he's "dong everything" concerning his kids. They aren't my concern...so why should I be stressed about it? Only...he wakes up at 5 am to take his daughter to work, and it wakes me up, too. And I lose my office while she's here. And she plops on the couch and watches reality shows that I hate all day on the days she's not working. And...etc. etc. etc. But it's not my business. Basically, there's a difference between owning your shit and taking care of your responsibilities and being controlling / going for total control where your kids are concerned. No matter how hard you try to make this easier on your wife, your kids are going to affect her, and your decisions about "your" kids are going to have an impact on her life in some way. Pretending like that's not the case can be harmful to your relationship, I think. Even if you don't expect her to pick up after your kids, show her that her opinion and her desires count, even on kid weekends.
Another possibility. Others have asked if you only spend fun time when kids are there...or spend noticeably more of your fun, free time on kid weekends? Do you pitch in around the house more happily and readily when your kids are there? I'll tell you this is a very real thing and it feels crappy to be on the other end of it. I have a sister who is also a stepmom, and this was one of her earliest complaints in her marriage. Her DH had one surprise child from a high school mistake...and he would clean the whole house from top to bottom before the kid arrived for the weekend...and then plan lots of fun stuff for while he was there...pitch into the dinner preparation and general household planning. Knowing my brother-in-law, I know that he was likely doing this to make my sister less stressed, since she really likes order and a clean, well-run house. "See?!" He could legitimately say. "I do all the work for skid and don't expect you to take charge or parent him." I know it came from a good place...but the problem was that he was very passive and let my sister manage everything about the household EXCEPT for when his kid was coming. So, she did all the cleaning and maintaining the rest of the time...and her DH's enthusiasm for pitching in right before and during skid visits made her feel like he only cared about the kid, not about her...and not about their kids together...at least, not as much as he cared about his kid. In his mind, he was doing this for her...being proactive and trying to eliminate her stress. But her perception was that he cared about his kid more than the rest of his family, including their kids. This has all worked out...and they eventually got full custody. But it took a long time to work through the frustration and resentment that this behavior caused my sister.
In addition to all the other great questions and advice you've gotten here...I'd suggest that you really examine your behavior here. Do you "come to life" for kid visits? That can send a very clear, very unwelcome message to your wife that will leave her feeling unloved and unimportant.
OK. One more thing and then
OK. One more thing and then I'm done, I promise.
This line:
"When my DW first entered our lives,"
This is a huge red flag...and a huge clue to how your DW is feeling. Your perspective is that she entered "our" lives. AKA...the lives of you and your kids, a distinct, pre-existing unit. Yikes. She didn't enter your lives. YOU chose to marry her and form a partnership with her. You and your wife are now the primary family unit...but it sounds as though you think of her as an appendage. A welcome, warm, loving (until recently) addition to your happy home with your kids. Yikes, yikes, yikes. I think if you keep your partnership in mind...you'll start to understand your wife a little better.
Cornmuffin? Cornmuffin?
Cornmuffin? Cornmuffin? Beuller? Are you coming back?
Sigh.
Well, I hope you do. Because from the clues you've given here, it is more likely your dear wife will visit a divorce attorney before she will visit a psychiatrist.
There. I said it.
She feels marginalized and miserable. She feels unheard. Whether or not she has spoken up is a question, but it wouldn't be surprising if she feels she has ad infinitum.
I do hope you come back. It sounds like you are trying but you really have no idea what the real problem is or what track this train is on.