SO going for drinks with dead wife’s chums
Without going into the story again (full details on this forum, a few posts below), SO told me he's been invited for a few after work drinks with his late wife's besties in a few weeks.
In short - she's been dead for a good few years, I met him well after, she was a superficially charming person, but in reality - extremely self centred, used SO as a nurse and a purse, always known she had a short life expectancy and severe disability (not externally visible) that many she always had to focus on herself on a daily basis, yet insisted on squeezing out kids on deathbed, knowing full well what life she's condemning to, never provided any basic care in infancy, leaving it to my SO, who was pretty much the sole parent while in a demanding corporate job. The kids are now severely messed up - behaviourally, genetically etc.
Anyway, he loved her and that speaks more of him than her. Paints her to kids as a wonderful mum, "for their sake". He's also a people pleaser, so no surprise here.
I've been accepted into the whole family and more - her parents seem to love me and I'm often invited over, although there's another set off issues there that I won't go into, but basically they're a lot like her. Always lived on welfare and have a perpetual victim attitude while happily scavenging on taxpayers money.
I've met her two friends when we first started dating, they seemed nice enough, and apparently they were very happy for my SO, which I believe.
He's kept part of her ashes and some clothes along with lots general clutter, which I've assisted in getting rid of. But he's kept a couple of clothing items "for the kids", who aren't interested in them. There's still plenty of trinkets, jewellery and photos stashed away, so no need for clothing in my opinion. Anyway, he finds reasons to keep it. Which bugs me and creeps me out, the same as the ashes in cupboard.
Now these friends have always maintained some minimal contact via a group chat with my SO, I understand that one still has hard time grieving. He told me a bit here and there, but I'm not interested in hearing about it. There's nothing meaningful in that. He recently told me they've organised drinks after work in a few weeks with him purely for the purpose of reminiscing about her. That kind of surprised me, because I sort of felt that my meeting with them was a "handover" so to speak - they kept an eye on him while he was single all those years, supported him in his grief, and once I was on the scene (several years now), they would respectfully back off.
I'm not sure how to feel about this meeting and if I should say something or let it slide. I feel like maybe it's time to close the lid on that era of his life, and maybe the friends are being disrespectful to me. Why reminisce with the man who's clearly trying to get on with his life and pick at old scars?
At the same time, he's planning on moving to my town in a few months, so it's likely to be the last meeting ever. He dislikes his in-laws (although maintains relationship with them as kids love their grandparents), and the move will also help with mostly severing that relationship.
I have also never lived through what he lived through - her whole existence was basically trying to ward off death, and the deterioration was horrible.
I want to be compassionate, but all I see is this selfish woman's legacy and it makes me angry. BTW, SO is aware of my view of her.
Any advice would be appreciated. Part of me thinks of telling him I'd find this meeting with her friends inconsiderate of me, but part of me wants to book a fun solo weekend away, and leave him with his own emotions for that weekend.
Whether the deceased was
Whether the deceased was superficial or not, her friends loved her. BF loved her. That is not going to change. You need to find a way to accept that. Their feelings are not going to change.
One of the things those with deceased spouses often complain about is that friends they had as couples disappear from their lives. Most would love the connection your BF still has.
Yes, BF needs to keep the connection between the late wife's parents and the kids. Those ties should not be severed. BF needs to facilitate this until the kids are old enough to do so themself. They are still, and always be, the kids' grandparents. That they have accepted you is a bonus. You don't have to approve of their lifestyle. Be grateful for their generosity in accepting that BF has someone new in his, and the grandkids, life.
You don't get to decide what he keeps for the kids. What is enough is his decision. And while the kids don't seem interested now, they are young, and that may change. A box or two of stuff tucked away should be acceptable to you. Unless he's going throug it lamenting, it should not be a problem.
The deceased wife is not a threat to your relationship unless you make it so.
A box or two -yes, but not clothes.
And while I don't get to decide how much she's still in his life, I can decide whether I stick around or not. Which will be mainly his loss, as I'm taking on a lot.
I wonder if you read my post properly, since I said that it is the SO that prefers to minimise the relationship with the grandparents, who are a problem for a host of reasons, including severe diagnosed mental heath disorders, and the kids come back from them talking about guns and conspiracy theories, off their chops from 8 hr violent computer game and sugar marathons, aggression and destruction through the roof. The grandparents have also have NEVER bothered visiting the kids at home for more than half an hour (even when their daughter was alive) and expect them to be brought over. They have significant issues with rules, authority and always manage to get close to breaking the law, but being clever enough to avoid it. The kids have inherited some of their disorders, are medicated for them and don't need them exacerbated. The grandparents also live in a ghetto. The grandfather has been creepy and questionable around his kids previously. So if we're going to live together, I will support my SO in not actively maintaining this relationship. If grandparents want it, they'll have to organise it themselves, which I can't see happening.
The BM was not just superficial. She was incredibly cruel to produce the kids on the deathbed as a way of guaranteeing own immortality, without a thought of the deadly genes she was potentially passing on, the trauma she's inflicting on them, the life that she'll be condemning the SO to with unmanageable kids with several mental, developmental and physical disorders. And it's not all rainbows and unicorns, while I say that he loved her, I also know from him about her dark, delusional, controlling side also.
She was incredibly cruel to
She was incredibly cruel to produce the kids on the deathbed as a way of guaranteeing own immortality, without a thought of the deadly genes she was potentially passing on, the trauma she's inflicting on them, the life that she'll be condemning the SO to with unmanageable kids with several mental, developmental and physical disorders.
He was just as responsible for bringing those kids into the world.
Clothes -- Are the kids boys
Clothes -- Are the kids boys or girls? Same sex kids often want clothing. I can envision girls wanting a piece of mom's clothing. I wore my mom's jacket for a while after she died and it's still hanging in my closet. My youngest wore his dad's military shirts to school for months after he died. You don't have to hang the clothing in your or BM's closet, but if the kids want it in theirs, I say let them. (A piece or two, not a closet full.)
Everyone's perspective is skewed by our personal experience. When we married, and DH moved into my house, I helped him clean his house for sale. His young adult kids had moved back with him after BM died and then promptly moved out leaving boxes of her stuff.They weren't interested in keeping much. I was the one pulling stuff out of the donate pile saying that they'd probably be sorry later if they threw it away now.
They’re boys.
And the pieces of clothing isn't something they'd be caught wearing, especially in public. She died years ago, when they were toddlers (teens/tweens now) and they don't even remember her aside from the fact that she was always bedridden.
I respectfully disagree. Any
I respectfully disagree. Any person ruminating on and clinging to the belongings of a previous lover has no business in a relationship regardless of how the relationship ended.
If you wouldn't accept the behavior from a divorced person you shouldn't accept it from a widowed person. They can honor, remember, celebrate and ruminate all they like...........single.
But once you present yourself as eligible to date, you need to be prepared to offer yourself to a new person as fully as you offered yourself to a previous love.
This is not to say that you have to throw away everything and forget the previous person. But, as soon as you tell a new partner you love them, THEIR feelings take priority over keeping the deceased person "alive."
Personal clothing items kept "for the kids" need to be packed away. My XBF had his late wife's shoes by the back door with HIS in a house WE shared that she never lived in. He keeps her bathrobe at the other house, which didn't bother me because I didn't live there, but it's indicative of his inability to move forward. He had sneaky little "shrines" to her all over what was supposed to be OUR home. I was fine with some pictures (family pictures and pictures of her alone), but in the guest bedroom where there daughter would stay. I was not okay with couple photos because he did not display any of us. And I didn't need an 'in your face' reminder that he loved someone else. He could keep those photos discreetly.
There are many reasons my relationship ended but it was in no small part owing to his failure to process his grief and guilt, and his inability to give his heart to make and make the commitment he claimed he wanted to make to me.
The deceased wife might not be a threat, but the inability of the man to move forward from the loss of his wife IS a threat.
You are living your life
We don't know everything. We can not give you advice on a life we know nothing about. I feel this is about respect.. your DH is not respecting your feelings. You have to put your feelings aside because of his life with BM, His kids, things BM got that you can not get. No first time in London he did it with BM.
'You feel. Like we all do. That we give up things all we asked in return is to respect our wishes. And they can't do lt. Like I always say as little as possible contact with the ex. Because you don't need a third person in your relationship, They didn't have a third person in there relationship trying to control life. Did they
As far as the kids'
As far as the kids' grandparents and some keepsakes of their mother's being saved for them, probably most people would agree that those are worth "saving." These friends....idk. The night of drinking and talking about BM....idk. I'm going to throw my vote in as your feelings are valid. No woman wants her husband doing this with BM's friends, with her (the wife) excluded. But you don't want to be included, either (who would?) I think these drink/sob fests with BM's old girlfriends are a sacrifice to be made as part of moving on. You are raising this woman's children for f's sake.
Thank you.
No, I would certainly not want to be included. In a way, I feel like I'm in a double bind, because the them just bypassing me and organising this get together (even though it'll probably be just a couple of hours) feels disrespectful, like I don't exist.
Now that I think of it, a polite thing to do would have been them inviting us as a couple for drinks as friends with the view of keeping the conversation neutral and to be prepared to accept a no from me or both of us.
IMHO.. the more I think about
IMHO.. the more I think about this.. and how I would feel given the entirety of the situation.. .no.. it's not appropriate for him to be having nights of rememberances with her old friends. If these were JOINT friends.. who were happy he had moved on, met someone new and wanted to go out with both of you for drinks as a new couple.. without retreading talk about the ex.. fine.. but this is not that.
I don't like that he has so many of his Ex'es things present in the home.. I feel like a picture in the kid's room of their mom.. the precious mementos put away in a single trunk in the attic.. if HE still needs her things around to feel normal.. then he is not over her and should not be moving on with someone new.
I don't think HE should want to entertain such a meetup at this point.. the fact that he does.. I think they need to do some counseling to work through your feelings.. his.. and how to move on and create a new authentic partnership.. without the ever present spectre of his late wife.
Thank you, that’s very helpful.
Talking about this here and everyone's responses helped me put into words things that were like a shapeless cloud of stress for months. I was then able to bring it all up last night with SO, and we had a good talk.
One thing that I've also realised about myself, with the help of this forum, that I have a tendency to hold myself to ridiculous standards and be "better than everyone else" when presented with bothersome things. I should be "tougher", "more accepting" and all other nonsense. The truth is, I'm just a human and I'm NOT comfortable with constant reminders of a past relationship, regardless of how it ended, even if on the cognitive level I understand that everyone has a past. Even the house SO lives in, is a reminder of that, and I can't reason it away. Thankfully, he's moving closer to me in a few months.
On the other hand, the great thing about SO is that he never escalates in response and hardly ever gets defensive (probably because diplomacy is a big part of his profession, haha!). Anyway, like with any other past conversations, he was able to see my point of view and agreed to tuck things away out of my sight. His reasoning was that kids sometimes do pick them up, handle and ask questions about their mother. So he'll put things in their room or in the tub in the storage room, and will think of what to do with her ashes (not in the bedroom cupboard - in the ground with the rest, storage or whatever else).
In regards to that meeting, he will make it a closure meeting, and invited me also (unprompted), but I said I don't want to go. Now that he knows my stance, I think I'm ok with it being the last meeting and using it to communicate it to the wife's girlfriends, since he's already agreed to go.
He's just started therapy with the kids, and I'll ask him to bring up the wife's relics and their impact on our relationship in his individual session.
Or you all get together
As a group. But make it known that dead wife, and things did to with dead wife are not talked about. There a chance that you all can be friends. I think there is a difference between divorce people and death. He didn't break up with her. He doesn't hate her. You must fit in. I wan never in that spot. Don't know how I would feel. But I would be expected to be treated as well as dead wife I really have to think about this. I would not expect it to turn into. Remember. Remember, that trip. Vacation. Christmas, Not a beringing up of the past
He’s not friends with them independently.
They were the wife's friends only and my SO doesn't really have anything to talk to them about, other than her and the kids.
Anyway, I brought it all up with him, he was apologetic and got my point. He invited my to come along and to make it the last time they meet. I said I don't want to go, but he should go since he's already promised, but make it his closure, he agreed.
Death does not erase the
Death does not erase the damage caused by the toxic. Nor does death mandate some deification of the toxically deceased.
I get that BM passed, I get that your DH was in a vulnerable place and naive when he chose make a life with her, he allowed her to pressure him into perpetrating her tragic ill health and her families litany of genetic issues.
I applaud that he is moving and getting himself and those kids distanced from the tragedy that their BM was. Pack up the clothes. Seal that box, and stick it on a back shelf. I doubt anyone will ever ask about that box.
Once the relocation happens, keep the interface with his ILs and the BM's posse to a minimum and very closely monitored. Never forget that her family created what and who BM was. No kid needs much of that in their lives.
IMHO of course.
Take care of you, take care of your marriage.
Live your best lives together in your new home and community. Giving that to yourselves and even to the challenging spawn is the right move IMHO.
Thank you, Rags.
That's exactly my plan, keeping my fingers crossed!
You seem really upset with this
DH should go by your wishes. He should have your back over a old friend who he hasn't seen for years. Or there more too this