Am I the AH...?
Hello,
Its me again! Some of you may know the backstory in my previous post: that a few months back there was a big argument between my SDs and us (me & DH), which ended in my SDs declining to join us for the planned family holiday.
Fast forward a few months, the issue still hasn't been resolved and my DH hasn't been seeing his girls pretty much ever since. OSD suggested to DH to go and do family counseling (but excluding me once again, of course). And YSD has pretty much blocked my DH from her phone so he is not able to get in contact with her. DH isn't very keen on counseling and I actually don't see much point for him to do it because SDs still aren't willing to take accountability of their parts in the argument that night and they will just want to vilify me and DH and paint us as the bad guys. But regardless, I said to DH if he thinks that its worthwhile doing then go for it.
There has been a bit of an issue doing the counseling because DH wants to get the gov't support but the gov't mental health plan wouldn't allow them to go do it together. They have to do individual sessions first and then they might be able to get together in a combined session (but it isn't guaranteed because it all depends on the counselor). DH explained to OSD that it needs to be this way and its the most economical way, but OSD got upset and said, 'What's the point? I shouldn't have bothered'.
BM has been pushing DH to go do it and yesterday she came to my DH's workshop and started acting all abusive and aggressive, pointing her fingers at him and yelling. She doesn't think the girls need to apologise and take accountability and she said that they don't need to respect us, (me specifically, of course) (WTH?) and that we need to be watching what we're doing (again, WTH?). She has always been like this, abusive, aggressive, explosive and she encourages them to behave in this manner and act like this, too.
As for me, since a few months have passed, I actually realise how happy I have been without seeing these girls. This might sound truly harsh and cold, but I haven't had episodes of anxiety and that feeling of dreadfulness whenever they come around. I truly think that they are toxic to my life and our life, and I honestly don't really wish to mend the relationship at all. If I do mend it, it would only be for the sake of my DH and his family because I know he loves his kids and wants to see them and so does his family.
I also had a realisation last night that the root of the problem is that these kids just hate me (maybe I have been in denial all these times?). They have never welcomed me to begin with, they never asked for me to be in their life, their mom also fuels this anger, jealousy and resentment and encourages them to disrespect me. They don't wish for me to ask questions, or to make any rules and/or decisions or to discipline them at all. I can be nothing more than the lunch lady. There have been numerous instances where I can say that they disrespect me. Some examples: even though they are 15 and 18, my DH still tells them to say hi to me when they come here. If he doesn't, YSD would usually just walk past and ignore me. Once we were all at the dinner table and OSD just got a new phone, she asked her father (in front of everyone) of when his birthday is, so that she can put it in her phone diary, but of course, she never asked me. They would ask him to play board games with them, I would be right in front of their eyes, and they would just act like I'm a ghost and wouldn't ask me to join/participate. My DH would say something like, 'hey, it was Cath5213's birthday', and YSD would just ignore it and not say anything to me (OSD would). And lastly, they are now once again excluding me from this 'family' counseling because to their eyes, I'm not their 'family'. There are endless other examples of this exclusionary bullying behaviours that I can pull out... (and FYI, everytime this happens DH wouldn't say anything to them or confront them of their exclusionary behaviours, DH is inherently a people-pleaser and anti-confrontational).
Realistically, I just don't know how we can get ourselves out from this toxic cycle. I don't have any hopes, but DH does, I would say he is almost delusional. I am OK with not ever seeing these kids again, but DH isn't, and I get it. I said to DH that I am done, and that after nearly 10 years being in their lives and always putting my best foot forward, I am finally done trying. I am constantly being excluded, being vilified and treated like I'm the evil wicked stepmother. And I'm sick of it. These kids aren't ever nice unless they want/need something. I told DH that I don't wish for them to step foot in this household anymore unless they can show respect and apologise for what they have said to me. To me, the apology signifies that they have regard and respect for me. It's not the apology that matters as such, it's the meaning behind it that matters. I love my DH with all my heart, and I don't want to be the wedge in his relationships with his kids. But at the same time I also have boundaries, dignity and self-respect. And I think to myself, if I don't respect myself, who would? If I don't fight for myself and stand my ground, who would? DH honestly wouldn't, because he is too scared for his kids to leave him. If it was up to him, he'd allow them back in this house and waltz around like they haven't done/said anything wrong, and once again, they can ignore my presence and disrespect me. I am done being treated this way at my own house. And the more that I don't have them around, the more I realise that I am happier this way.
I am just at a loss and I'm seriously wondering if my approach is too far-fetched and cold-hearted? Am I the AH here? Should I let them walk all over us once more and once again put my feelings behind and bite my tongue? I really don't want to, and I feel like our relationship (me & DH) would be compromised if I had to do that again and I'm seriously wondering if we should separate... I don't want to grow resentful at my DH, and at the same time I don't want my DH to be resentful at me if I was to become the wedge in their relationship. I'm seriously just at such a loss... I don't know what to do.
Thanks if you have made it this far. Sending you all love & hugs.
You are not an ahole for
You are not an ahole for wanting to be respected and feel comfortable in your own home.
Thank you.
Thank you! I'm glad to hear this.
You are not the AH, they are
You are not the AH, they are though. I'm going to hazard a guess that they were raised by BM to hate you but don't take it personally. They would hate ANY woman that DH married. It's not about you and all about their mother's desire to punish DH for leaving her. He is not at her beck and call, he does not answer to her anymore. She lost control over him and this is the root of the evil you are experiencing.
Disengage from the drama, let DH dabble with them. Having to walk between you and them is the only way for him to see clearly that they are the problem. Disengagement means that you don't become his punching bag or sounding board for the drama. He has to carry that by himself. You just focus on the relationship you have with him and keep it more pleasant than the drama. Many of us around here have had to deal with this. I did. Rolling over and playing nice is not the way. Firm boundaries are.
100%
Yes, 100% what you said. BM truly hates my guts and she is 100% jealous that DH loves me. DH said that when they were together she constantly tested his love, she'd do things on purpose to make him jealous and she was pleased when he would get jealous. Toxic behaviours. I think this is what she is getting the girls to do, she is teaching the girls to test his love for them. Instead of teaching them to be accepting, she teaches them to hate me and I know that she would constantly tell these girls that their father chooses his wife over them. She wants him to choose between me and the girls. The girls want him to choose between me and them. When he backs me up (because we're meant to be the parents here), they see it as their dad choosing me over them. OSD has in fact said this to DH a week after the argument, 'Why didn't you back me up?' (I don't really know how she'd expect him to back her up when she's yelling to me telling me I'm disgusting...). The girls seem to take pleasure in dividing us, and they want DH to have their backs and they want DH to agree with them that I'm a horrible controlling evil SM.
I believe deep down DH knows that they are the problem, but he's still wearing his rose-coloured glasses and is acting delusional by hoping that things will mend themselves and that we'd go back to the way things were... I'm trying to slap him back into reality (not physically, lol) but he still constantly tries to make excuses for them; 'well, they're only kids' (Um no, they're not, one of them is literally an adult by definition), and 'It's not their fault they act this way, it's their mom's fault' (Um not 100%, they have their own brains that they can use to think for themselves).
Thanks for your kind words, I definitely appreciate this. I agree that firm boundaries are the way to go. I was constantly going back and forth at the start of this drama, but now I'm pretty firm that I don't need these toxic kids in my life. If I was to forgive them and move on, it'd only be because I love my DH and I mustn't forget that.
Interesting. The testing of
Interesting. The testing of love thing. After two years of me fighting tooth and nail to save my first marriage, when my XW told me she wanted a divorce and I replied with "Go file." she broke down in tears and cried "You won't fight for meeeeeeeee!"
Nope, I was the only one who had been fighting for that marriage which I did for far too long. I was done. Though I am eternally grateful to her for that conversation. It gave me free reign to get on with my life.
Even when she ended it, she was trolling for a demonstration of love. She did from the moment she played the D card until we were in front of the Judge. Hell, she never even started it. She was hosing around the whole engagement and blessedly brief 2.5 years of marriage. Wedding to divorce court.
After the Judge signed the order and we walked out of the court house I just stepped off of the curb and walked to my car, got in, and drove off. I did not say a word though I did give a sorrowful glance as I dropped off of the curb. She stood on the curb sobbing. Not sure what that was about. I was gutted. But.. I was so excited to get on with the rest of my life I never looked back. She called me periodically over the next 3+ years. Initially to cry and lament that she was knocked up by Grandpa Suger/Baby daddy and to claim that I was her best friend, knew her better than anyone and "What should I dooooooo!"
Not my spawn, not my problem. I was notably down a path to a life of adventure and finding a love for the ages b the time she called for the last time banshee schreeking about MY HOUSE. I got it in the divorce when the Judge ordered "All other property divided as possessed." She had moved out. It was my house. I let her live there rent free while I was finishing my engineering degree but when she got stupid, again, and tried to rip me off, grandpa sugar/baby daddy ended up writing me a big check for the profits on the sale of the house. All but about 5% of the profits anyway. She is on her third marriage (I was the first), and has at least 3 oowl spawn by two baby daddies, at last count as of 2012 any way.
Wow!
Wow. You really dodged the bullet back then. At least you didn't have kids with her (I assume) so you were just so lucky, otherwise you'd be in my DH's position being tested of his love to his kids just as he was with her. Even as they broke up, she cheated on him. She got close to someone that would come often to her workplace and I think at first she said that they were just friends. He even told me that he ended up half-stalking her at her workplace (seeing if the other dude's car was there, and so on). And this to me just sounded completely unhealthy, but I think BM was obviously beaming through all of this because, 'look at how much he loves me, he's got so jealous he'd stalk me, etc.' This dude that BM cheated on DH with ended up assaulting DH (came to their house and threw a few punches at him as he opened the door). BM also ended up having 2 other kids with this dude and then broke up with him when she realised that he was an abusive partner (duh, what do you expect? He assaulted my DH out of the blue...?).
Now BM is with another BF. And as I mentioned in the other post, this BF and BM assaulted my DH in front of one of the kids on Christmas Day many years ago. BM's mum tried to assault me. BM's entire family is crazies born and bred. Also when BM's BF assaulted my DH, BM was heard laughing when she was at the police station (my DH was on the phone with one of the cops and heard her laugh in the background), it was almost like she was so happy because two men fought because of her (not for her, my DH was terribly glad to get rid of her). She probably thought it was a show of love, for a man to 'fight' for their woman. I was heavily traumatised after that. I was terrified and thought that BM and her mum would try to break in to our house and assault me or hurt my beloved pets. I was just shocked to the core and I didn't think any of it was funny or delightful. But I think their whole entire family thought it was.
My DH is one unlucky man to have not realised his mistake sooner. DH's family never liked BM, and his mum hated her mum (understandably). I just hope DH would realise that there is no way his kids would be 'normal' when they are raised in that kind of environment. I just hope DH would at least come to terms with it and accept it. Perhaps we can still all be very cordial with each other, but I don't expect we'd all be best friends. To me, it is too exhausting to keep up with all these toxic behaviours and endless dramas.
Nope, no kids. I fortunately
Nope, no kids. I fortunately did not pollute my gene pool with her. Blessedly.
My family liked my XW very much. We all did. Then.... her skin walker self showed up on our wedding night. From angel to succubus. Nearly instantly.
I met my dad for breakfast in the hotel restaurant at the butt crack of dawn the morning after the wedding before he headed to the airport to fly back overseas and my XW and I left for our honeymoon. He asked how married life was treating me. I told him it would not last. I knew less than 12hrs after the wedding. Sadly, I could fix it. I can fix anything. Or so my significant over confidence told me. Nope.
My parents did comment a couple of times during the engagement and the wedding prep that they did not understand how a low level civil servant and a book keeper could afford a home in the Ritzy-est zip code in the metro area and a 250 acre hobby ranch a couple of hours N. Something did not pass their smell test regarding my XILs. As it turned out, the stench was real.
I was doing some research for my parents' 50th anniversary 24yrs after the wedding and 22yrs after the divorce. When I Shmoogled mom and dad a link to my XW came up. I clicked it. It was a death notice for my XW's GM. Another click and reality of what I dodged opened up. A front page major news paper article with a pic of my XMIL being walked out of the courthouse in hand cuffs after she was arrested by the Federal Marshals for embezzlement. More unfolded with a couple more clicks.
She had been the bookkeeper for a local business for 30+ years. After about 10 yrs of only bookkeeping they had promoted her to office manager. At that point there was no segregation of duties and she ripped them off for $Millions over 20+ years. She did the books. Counted the money. Wrote the checks. In other words the owners had violated every bit of business 101. Never let the people who count the money write the checks. Always do the audits. Especialy in an all cash business.
It all started crashing down on my ILs when an interested party started calling my XMIL to investigate if the owners were interested in selling the business. She told the interested buyer that the business was not for sale. Not long after that the owner/husband had some health issues. They started considering selling. XMIL went to the wife/owner and told her that she would continue running the business if the wife wanted to keep it upon her the owner/husband's demise.
At some point the interested buyer got hold of the husband/owner and expressed interest. The owners called in the owner/husbands CPA brother and they started an analysis of the books to put together a valuation for sale of the company. They found $Millions that XMIL had embezzled. She had been writing checks to herself, her family, the mortgage companies on their home and ranch, making their car payements with the business accounts, she had been ordering expensive appliances through teh business for their homes, their kid's homes(Yep, she gifted us a few new appliances though my parents had already given a fridge and a washer/dryer. XMIL gave us a dishwasher and microwave), writing checks to Universities for their kids and GKs college educations, it was incredible. The several articles on the case indicated that the owners never would figure out how much they had been taken for.
They sued the whole family, except my XBIL. As they all walked out of the civil suit judgement where they were ordered to pay $Millions to the business owner, XMIL was arrested by the Marshals. The owner apparently waited until he had the signed settlement in hand before getting the Feds involved. The arrest happened as they were leaving the courtroom where the presiding Judge over the Civil case/settlement had confirmed and ordered the settlement agreement.
XMIL ended up in prison at 70yo after pleading guilty to a plea deal. My XW was apparently on the hook for $hundreds of thousands of the pay back settlement.
It was then clear how they could afford to live where they did and how they afforded the ranch. They surrendered $Millions in property and another $Million or so in cash after their investment accounts were liquidated. My XW and my XSIL also had some signifiant pay back they had to make. My XBIL, had left the State with his family not long after my divorce was final. He escaped the civil suit.
I dodged that shit show. Thank goodness.
Wow Again!
You really did truly dodged that shitshow, sir. That is one hell of a story and you are one lucky one!
NTA. From your last blog, the
NTA. From your last blog, the girls chose to stop coming and your DH allowed them to throw the CO out the window. And one of them is an adult. If your DH wants to do the therapy and see them outside your home, he should do that. They would have to prove they can behave decently and treat you with respect before being allowed back to your house.
Now, if the CO says YSD is supposed to be in your DH's custody at certain times and he insists on following it, you will have a decision to make, but if he hasn't followed the CO for years i can't imagine he wants to start enforcing it now. And having him (and you) butt-kiss and beg to have them grace you with their snotty presence isn't on the table.
Also, damn. There are a lot of teen SD drama queens run amok being posted about lately.
Yep, not following CO...
Yes, DH hasn't really been following CO. It was also something that I worked so hard at (trying to get him and BM to follow CO so that I can follow certain expectations and schedules), but this pretty much went down the drain last year when OSD wanted to come live with us for a bit. Now looking back, that was also a drama that OSD might have cultivated in order to paint BM and her BF as the bad guys (and now she's doing the opposite of course), but heck, that's a completely different telenovela altogether. And yes, a lot of teen SD drama queens running around for sure! LOL
YSD is also adamant on not seeing DH. There is nothing BM or DH can do about this. BM even said to DH last time, 'What do you want me to do? Pull her hair and push her in the car? She doesn't want to come.' Last I heard apparently YSD told OSD (and OSD might have told my DH a while back) that YSD would only join the 'family' counseling if DH has 'changed'. I can't even begin to imagine what kind of 'changes' she expects out of him, let alone wrap my mind on how entitled these kids behave by demanding that their parent makes 'changes' for them and that they would otherwise not be seeing their parent until they make the so-called 'changes'...
I think that both these kids are pulling an emotional torture and playing a psychological mindgame on DH by stopping to see him. They are 'punishing' him as such. And I said to DH, do you really think this kind of behaviour would stop? These kids would constantly do this over and over again. 'You're not spending 1 on 1 time with us? Fine, we won't see you anymore'. 'You're backing up your wife in that argument? Fine, we won't see you anymore'. Imagine the can of worms he's opening up. But hey, I'm leaving that on DH's plate. I keep telling him to wake up and smell the sh*t and that things won't ever go back to the way they were...
When did one-on-one time
When did one-on-one time become a thing? I mean, yeah, it's nice if a parent cultivates quality one-on-one relationships with each kid based on mutual interests or activities, but i have never thought this was something like food/clothing/shelter that it was neglectful not to do. What exactly are the SDs wanting? I'm going to guess one-on-one shopping trips or trips to entertainment places or movies that the SDs want to watch. Again, nice, but not "do it or i won't speak to you" material. These girls needed to have one-on-one chore supervision a decade ago. They appreciate nothing, though everything is provided to them.
Don't get me wrong, family time like helping with homework, cooking/eating/cleanup for meals together, going to the store, doing extracurriculars, and the occasional family vacation or hiking day or going to the movies, yeah, those things are normal and good. But i wonder what these SDs have in mind when they say "one-on-one" time. It sounds like it's some kind of carrot they are dangling to make it seem like if he just does that, whatever "that" is, they will magically turn into tolerable people to be around.
ETA i wonder what would happen if he called one of them and said "Hey, we're going to spend the day together, just me and you. We're going to clean out the garage. If you participate and do your best we can get dinner after."
Sigh...
These kids have basically once said something along the lines of, 'Necessities such as food, clothes & shelter are something that we are entitled to, and not to be grateful for that you are providing because it's just an expectation of the parents to provide such things'. Entitlement much? OSD literally bags DH for not wanting to splurge hundreds of dollars on her highschool graduation. On the other hand BM couldn't afford her tuition nor her private school fees but chooses to spend her dole money on purchasing jewelleries, new heels, hairdo and manicured nails for OSD's highschool graduation for ONE DAMN NIGHT. OSD said to DH at that time, 'you are my dad, it's obligation that you spend money on my graduation'. She compared herself with some of her friends who were getting spray tans (but some of her friends apparently worked 2 jobs and most likely paid for the spray tans themselves, whilst she did not have a job). And mind you, she did not even graduate with flying grades.
YSD mentioned to DH at that time of the argument that she only expected him to maybe go for a walk with her, or play board games with her, or whatever simple, for maybe an hour a week. A simple demand, which I believe could be easily accommodated for if she does decide to come, but she hasn't. It's very counterintuitive to demand to spend time together but then does not even turn up.
These kids never offered to help with dinner (I do it all - DH at times). They never offered to help clean the house either, which is fine, as they don't come very often, but I don't believe they help at all at BM's, which is why they never offered to help at ours. If you ask SDs to help clean out the garage they would laugh and deny, and roll their eyes.
I see the 'one on one time' as something that they ask for in order to exclude me from any activities once again. I bet the 'one on one time' means the 2 SDs and DH, like its not even going to be one SD with DH and they take turn. They just don't want me involved, and they are going to use it as an excuse to exclude me once again, 'Oh, sorry, but it's a one on one time with my dad only'.
These girls are the most unappreciative kids I have ever come across. They are no doubt entitled, selfish and highly inconsiderate. I am not around many kids and I'm not fond of kids in general, but in the last 10 years that I have been around them, I have never been turned off by kids as much as them. I have come across friends' kids who have shown me more affection and acceptance than my SDs ever did (even though I do way more for my SDs than for those other kids). I'm not about to hope that things will change. Like I said, I don't want/need their affection and care, I only just want to live in peace with DH and be rid of the dramas. Sadly though, that doesn't seem to be coming my way...
This is why DH should smack
This is why DH should smack BM with an contempt motion and drag her to court each and every time she fails to surrender the Skid(s) per the CO. Every time.
The duty is on the CP to facilitate the NCP's visitation with their kid(s). No, of course you cannot force a kid into a car, though I for one am not above doing that when it comes to an ill behaved spawn, but you can for damed sure drag a PASing CP into court for that kid failing to comply with the visitation order. See how the little darlings like seeing mommy get her ass chewed by a Judge in court. We had to bring similar consequences down on the SpermClan a few times when they failed to return SS per the visitation schedule. Always some bullshit excuse that they mosed the flight, or a flight was canceled, or "He travels on your time not ours!". So, to bare their asses, we had the kid collecte by first the police then the sheriff (DW's HS BFF is the daughter of the Cheif of Police who then became Sherrif after he retired from the PD.) He hates the SpermIdiot was was more than happy to bare GrandHag ass at work, in her neighborhood, at church, or at family reunions when she pulled this crap.
Lather... rinse.... repeat.
Hmm...
Hmmm, I don't know if such a thing could be easily done here. It might mean we'd have to engage lawyers and go to court... We are down under, and I remember once BM and DH agreed to drop off YSD at a police station somewhere after her production night. Only to find that BM read the text wrong and was at a wrong police station. She was adamant for us to drive the extra half an hour and won't meet halfway through, claiming that she's got 2 little kids left at home sleeping (WTH?). Anyway, we came into the police station that night to see if the police could assist in getting her to come our way, since we were already where we agreed to meet and I didn't want us to drive half an hour there and half an hour back. The policeman pretty much shrugged his shoulders and said there's not much he could do. Since then, we stopped trying to get the police involved in any of the drop offs and pick ups and we pretty much just do them at an agreed time and place and try to keep it amicable. I don't think DH is keen on pursuing any legal stuff to do with the CO. I'm also not keen on having any of the SDs back (YSD won't come without OSD)...
Nope, not the asshole.
DH should have called the police when his X showed up at his shop. Witnesses all around, and BM getting frog marched out in hand cuffs.
See how his lovely DDs like having mommy get her ass bared and charges pressed by DH and his place of employement.
He should go do his indivicual therapy. So should you. That way, he can demonstrate action and put the next steps on his toxic spawn daughters. "We went. Why haven't you? I am ready for a joint session when you do your part. So is my wife."
Use your gov't benefits. I would bet dollars to donuts that they won't. Keep the pressure on them to counter their manipulative mommy Kool-Aid slurping, mommy butt sniffing crap. Make sure that the girls know that you and daddy are doing your part while making sure to bare BM's ass directly to the girls while challenging them to follow their own demands and get to their individual session so you can all get to a group session.
And... have fun baring their asses.
Ahha!
Haha! Yes, he should have. The only problem was that she was there to pick up OSD's clothes. Perhaps DH should have met her at the police station (which is where pick ups and drop offs were happening beforehand, as of course, DH had restraining order against BM a while back when she and her BF assaulted him - again, this is a separate telenovela altogether). I considered obtaining a video footage of this (as DH has cameras installed in his premise) and posting this online to name and shame BM, but you know what, I'm above all that and she isn't worth my energy, effort and time. I choose to be better than her. And at the end of the day, DH is an adult who is capable to determine how other people should treat him. If he's willing to take abuse from her, then I'd just let him be, it's his battle to pick.
I'm a little conflicted about what you said. I have constantly been excluded and told that I don't belong, and I don't want to be involved in this counseling session because SDs don't want me to. If I'm involved once again, SDs will just use that as their weapon once more, 'See, Daddio chooses his wife over us and won't even have counseling with just us, he has to bring his wife into it, she's got nothing to do with this', or 'See how much of a control freak his wife is, she won't even let Daddio go to counseling with just us because she wants to control him and what he says and does'. I know for a fact that if I'm involved in the counseling, they wouldn't come, just as you've said it. They have made it clear that they don't want me in the counseling, and that they don't have to apologise to me and acknowledge that what they did and said were wrong. I don't want to get involved once more, and only to be painted as the bad guy again. I have considered it before, but I just don't give a rat's ass about these kids no more. All I want is for DH to wake up and smell the sh*t and realise that his kids are the problem here... I honestly don't want DH to be involved in their drama, I wish for him to have a hard heart and stand his ground, but he said that he's missing them and so it appears that they will win their emotional manipulation game this time. This won't be the end of this, though. You can for sure expect another season of it, stay tuned! Haha
Take control of your life
These kids will never step foot in your home until you are ready. Until they respect you. What means never. Your DH must have your back. You are his wife. He must follow the CO to the letter When kids get older they get more expensive. Wanting nicer clothes. With known nanes. Cars, education, graduation, weddings.
'This is the future. Like who going to pay for there first car ? The graduate party ? [do you do ] sweet 16 party? Weddings. Who go to pay for it. How you and BM going yo fit in. ????
Financial Independence Hopefully
Thank you. Both DH and I were raised with the mindset to be independent. My parents didn't buy me my first car and neither did DH's. We both bought cheap second-hand car (which I still drive to these days and I actually love it lol). To my understanding DH will not buy SDs their first cars. They will have to work for it and buy it with their hard-earned savings. Mind you, DH found SD a very nice, cheap but reliable second-hand car, and he already had it in his possession (he buys & sells cars as a side thing). DH told SD that she had to pay him for the car, which is not much, and SD already had the money in her savings. DH said he'd assist her with the insurance and registration and maintenance of the car. SD declined and didn't want the car because she thought it was ugly. WTH?
As for me, I have been working part-time since I was 18 (and full-time after I got my degree, of course) and the only thing my parents let me do at that time when I was studying is live at their house and eat the food they make/buy for free, which I appreciate. I paid for everything else myself; clothes, car, petrol, commuting expenses, even school-related stuff like printing and books; I of course paid for going out with my friends, and even my graduation outfit. When I travelled overseas during those years I also paid for all the trips myself. My college fees were loaned from the government, which I am still now paying off with my own salary. My parents aren't well-to-do. They worked hard enough to be able to buy their own house, but by no means wealthy. I have known this since I was a young child and I have known how hard they work and their own battles. Therefore I have never expected them to splash their money around for things that are not basic necessities. And therefore I also never understood how my SDs (whom also don't come from high-income parents) can think that basic necessities should be expected and not to be appreciated. They expect the lifestyles of the rich and famous and they never seem to appreciate anything that DH and I try to do for them. The last planned holiday trip that they declined to go to was their first overseas trip that DH and I were very excited to take them to, and thought that it really was about time. When they were younger BM never let them go overseas. We could only take them interstate. The fact that they declined it like it was nothing just really broke DH's heart. But anyway, it was what it was. The SDs seem to think that it's a given that they get taken to holiday trips, they never appreciated those interstate trips we took them to either. SDs always say to DH how he never buys them anything and how he is so stingy and tight with his money. He pays for all their basic necessities, he never fails to follow the CO and always shows up, he of course buys them birthday and Christmas presents, and he splashes money on taking them to holiday trips. But they never seem to appreciate any of it. So from now I told DH that we won't be taking them to holiday trips.
Both DH and I also paid for our own wedding. Weddings are expensive. I'm happy for DH to contribute to his SD's wedding, but only a reasonable amount and not over the top. But with how BM is, I bet she'd be ripping DH off to pay for their weddings and would be calling him all names if he doesn't pay for it all. BM is already ripping DH off now and asking for more child support given she's currently having them 100% (which is fair enough). But she is also asking for CS for OSD18, who is actually no longer entitled to CS given she's now an 'adult'. At the moment it is easier to give her that small bit of monetary support than trying to resolve the dramas with the SDs. But I said to DH, that support will stop the moment OSD finishes her college degree and gets a full-time job. It is not meant to be alimony money to BM. I bet she's using that money now to go do her fortnightly nail extension...
I have no doubt that these kids would grow up to be like BM... All the more dramas in my life.
If I were you I'd persuade
If I were you I'd persuade your husband that he should switch to giving his elder daughter her "share" directly rather than her mother. This way it is established that any support money that your husband provides for his daughter is not included in child support and is his to choose to give. Of course his daughter could choose to give that to her mother if she wanted but I that can be her choice. If this support is meant only for the duration of her time at college I would make sure that your sd knows that is the intention.
Hmm...
Hmm, maybe it could be considered. But the problem is if it goes to SD I am not sure what SD would use that $$ for and I wouldn't want it to look like SD is just getting the $$ from my husband for doing nothing. She is also not the most well-behaved kid at the moment so I don't know if that would make it look like he's rewarding her for not coming to ours... If that makes sense. From the very start BM has always had both SDs for way more time than us. CO said one weeknight for a few hours and every second weekend, and half of the holidays. This perhaps worked out to about 25-30% of the time at most. BM asked DH for this support prior to the whole argument happening and BM just said that she needed the support because she isn't working and that OSD is technically still a dependant because she would be in college and not contributing anything to the household, even though she is legally 18 y.o. I agreed that DH should still support BM because the arrangement at that time was for OSD18 to live majority of the time with BM and only come to ours per the CO (this is so that YSD still would come - because YSD wouldn't come to ours without OSD). BM has also agreed with DH that the current monetary support would be reviewed and amended if both SDs started coming to ours again per the CO.
I just know what both SDs are like. And I think that if SD started getting money from DH she would not ever stop asking for more from him. Plus, BM wouldn't take the $$ from SD if it lands in SD's bank account. At the very least at the moment BM can still use it to purchase groceries, paying bills, etc. for both SDs. I feel that if it lands in SD's account it would just pile up as her own savings, and like I said before these kids are never appreciative of what's given to them, so I think it would one day just be seen as something that DH has to do for SD and the demand for money will never stop. Whereas if it was to BM, once we know that SD gets a job, that support will stop. Plus, at the moment SD is also getting a government income support for young adults, and I believe she got herself a part-time job at the start of this year, so she is in no way short of cash. I think money to her coming from DH will be more seen as more of an incentive for her to be lazier and to rely on DH for a means of income, which I wouldn't agree with.
If she is 18 and out of HS,
If she is 18 and out of HS, no more money to BM for the oldest Skid. If I were daddy, I would force her to take out school loans and provide me with end of semester grade reports. One D, she keeps the entire loan for that semester. Cs and above, daddy pays of the loan immediately. No cash beyond that unless she is living in a dorm. At which point, daddy can pay her dorm fees directly to the school and by her meal plan card. No cash.
He has paid BM years of CS, she can go to mommy for cash or work for cash. Daddy should track every penny he has paid in CS and every Cent he will pay for 18+ SD college support. When and if she graduates, give her a framed copy of the spreadsheet so she at least for the time it takes to look at it after unwrapping it, she knows the facts.
I would suggest this route regardless of any prior agreements with BM. Shit happens. Things change. BM can deal with it. SO can eldest SD. Supporting his X is not DH's responsibility. That is BM's responsibility. His responsibility is to pay the COd CS and then get value from his money out of BM by holding her to delievering on care, feeding, housing, and supervising his kids when they are not with him.
An X is no longer relevent beyond the framework of the CO and an NCP has to get value for their child support dollar. DH needs to stop giving a shit about BM.
IMHO.
Money Leech
I completely agree that supporting BM isn't DH's responsibility.
Where we are, the government provides loans for college/university fees, which gets paid by the individual themselves once they hold a full-time job and get paid above a certain threshold. It is what SD is doing so DH doesn't have to fork out $$ for those university fees. Most people here do this if university study is our choice.
BM's argument is that if SD was to live majority of the time with her, then she's technically still a dependant even though she's above 18, which I don't fully disagree with. BM said to us that if we don't want to pay support to her, then SD can split the time and live 50/50. This was all before the argument happened and at that time I didn't really want to do 50/50 so I told DH paying a bit of support to BM might be the way to go.
BM has told DH when she came around to the workshop that OSD18 has to quit her part-time job (which she only got during the end of year holiday) because she's finding university to be too difficult. Yet BM said to DH that she still needs the support money because SD still should be able to shop (clothes) and be like a teenager. I don't know what to say to that. It's really frustrating the way she thinks, and she thinks that someone who doesn't have a job and is a dependant should still have the privilege of spending someone else's money for non-essentials. And mind you, SD receives government support income for young adults, so she does have a bit of cash.
Maybe at some point this support to BM has to be in form of grocery giftcards or something. I'm not truly opposed to supporting BM if she has the kids 100% of the time and they're not financially independent (to a certain age only of course) and if BM is a reasonable person. But some of the things that comes out of BM's mouth are very disturbing and makes me question if she is at all an adult. She teaches the kids that it is OK to spend someone else's money and that they're entitled to it (because that is your father's money), which is all very disturbing. She is also jealous of our success and said to DH that now he's only working for me and that everything will go to me. I think she really never got over the fact that DH didn't "fight" for her and she's now going to spend the rest of her life in contempt and resentment; making our life miserable would definitely be her life mission.
Looks like we might have money leeches for life...
"Looks like we might have
"Looks like we might have money leeches for life... "
That would be unacceptable to most people. I get paying BM to avoid drama if it keeps the SDs and their antics over there. But not forever, and not if all 3 of them are just going to lounge around and clothes shop. Eff that.
Definitely Not Acceptable
Yeah, definitely not acceptable to us as well. It is what I'm afraid of too, that BM will continue ripping DH off past the college time. I can't say what's going to happen but I hope both SDs will turn out OK; graduate college and get a full-time job. I have said to DH many times that the support will stop as soon as SD graduates. There is no way BM will keep receiving her $$. But the other day over the phone BM also said something along the line of 'you have to support your kids for the rest of your life' (WTH??? In what world is that ever the case???) and she also bagged DH because apparently when they were together before their goal was to buy a house each for their kids, and now she's complaining because the house will belong to me should something happens to DH (mind you - when DH & BM split they split their assets equally; DH then bought this current house with me). She's really just someone that you need cut out from your life. She's the definition of a living breathing shameless human leech. And I reckon her kids will just grow up to be exactly like her. That's why I also wouldn't mind having them cut out from my life. Sad for DH, though.
IMHO if is entirely obvious
IMHO if is entirely obvious that BM doesn't think. Likely she isn't capable of thinking. If she does think it is entirely self serving. Why would DH pay a cent to BM for an adult daughter?
I ascribe to the KISS principle. Keep It Stupid Simple. If SD-18 has aged out from under a Custody/Visitation/Support CO then no money related to her shoudl go to BM at all. Even if SD-18 is visiting her mother, it is on SD-18 and her mother to provide for her care and feeding. If DH and you, are going to provide for SD-18, IMHO it should be direct to SD and not to BM.
Follow the specifics of the Court Order or whatever official rules apply. Not one cent more to the CP. Voluntary contributions to a Skidult, should be made directly to that Skidult.
As for the money leech BM and her butt hurt-ness over her X prospering and having a life with a mate, she can F-off and neither you nor you should give as much as a flying rat's ass about her fee fees or anything else about her for that matter. Pay whatever residual CS is required for younger kids. On the day they tap out from under a CO by age or HS graduation, cut BM off completely
My SS's NCP SPermCLan cut him off on his 16th B-day. I do not begrudge them that one bit. If I was an NCP, I would keep the CP under a very hairy eyeball and firm thumb to ensure I get the complete value for what I pay them for the care, feeding, etc.. of my child(ren). Not one micro-Cent more and not for one pico-second beyond the duration required by the CO.
After that, the X is not my problem at all and not on my RADAR screen in the least. My blended family focus then goes to my kids who as newly minted adults would deal with me directly in a respectful manner to wards me and my SO.
Hmm...
Hmm, I'm seeing many of you seeming to think that DH should be paying to SD18. The thing that I'm worried about though is that SD18 is going to see DH as an ATM machine and that she's going to start relying on DH to provide for her as an adult, which I definitely don't want. I think that cutting off BM would be easier to be done in the future than cutting off SD18, but maybe I'm wrong. With BM, I feel that after SD18 finishes her college and gets a full time job, DH would be cutting off BM. But if he supports her now, I can see SD18 in the future trying to work her way to getting DH to continue supporting her (she might say something like, 'I don't earn enough now, can you still help me?' or 'I don't have $$ to look after my car, can you help out?' or 'I need to move out of my mum's because I don't get along with her & her bf but I don't earn enough, so can you help me pay rent?' etc2.). How should DH put it to SD18 if he is going to start giving the $$ to her without it looking like he is going to support her for life...? I just feel like cutting BM for good would be easier than cutting the SDs, and DH would definitely be having a hard time cutting SDs and saying no to them than to BM, if that makes sense... Life is always such a dilemma with these money leeches. Sigh.
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BM is the X. She is shit and
BM is the X. She is shit and shit is as much consideration as DH or you shoudl give her.
SD-18 is a discretionary limited amound and single incident support target. No means no.
But for damnes sure, with SD now being 18 not one penny goes to BM for anything to do with SD-18.
I do not understand the focus on supporting SD-18 via money to BM at all. BM is not likely to use that money for SD-18. Though she will claim it is for support of SD-18.
The willful naive delusion of some prior breeders is truly alarming.
BM is the X. She is shit and
BM is the X. She is shit and shit is as much consideration as DH or you shoudl give her.
SD-18 is a discretionary limited amound and single incident support target. No means no.
But for damnes sure, with SD now being 18 not one penny goes to BM for anything to do with SD-18.
I do not understand the focus on supporting SD-18 via money to BM at all. BM is not likely to use that money for SD-18. Though she will claim it is for support of SD-18.
The willful naive delusion of some prior breeders is truly alarming.
BM is the X. She is shit and
BM is the X. She is shit and shit is as much consideration as DH or you shoudl give her.
SD-18 is a discretionary limited amound and single incident support target. No means no.
But for damnes sure, with SD now being 18 not one penny goes to BM for anything to do with SD-18.
I do not understand the focus on supporting SD-18 via money to BM at all. BM is not likely to use that money for SD-18. Though she will claim it is for support of SD-18.
The willful naive delusion of some prior breeders is truly alarming.
Nope nope and NOPE
Definitely NOT the AH.
SDnow25 Feral Forger actively shunned me in my own home, was allowed to scream and yell at me and call me names. Shes no contact with me. Sneaky b!ch is now acting like the "nice" girl in front of family, and then trash talking us to other family members. And turns around asking for ca$h.
Of course she is asking for
Of course she is asking for cash. She is CashTrash. So many failed family breeding mistakes and failed family Xs are.
Ugh.
Yes, this is what they did and they don't think they are in the wrong. BM doesn't either. They have no respect and regard for me. BM explicitly said that they don't have to respect us (me in specific, of course).
Also what I'm afraid of, that they will talk bad about me to the DH's family. DH is not confrontational, isn't very good in talking & expressing himself and I don't think he has explained the exact entire situation to his family. His family is also a big family and all of them are such gossipers. I'm always so worried that SDs will talk bad to his family and turn them against me... I don't want to overstep the family boundary, I don't want to be the one talking about SDs to DH's family and I'm always mindful of this. At the end of the day I'm sure my MIL wouldn't want me to be bitching about her granddaughters to her face. But if it's the truth, what do I do? Sigh.
Grrrr. That is all I have to
Grrrr. That is all I have to say.
I so feel for you. I won't
I so feel for you. I won't get into all the disrespectful and horrible behavior, but 5 years into our marriage (2 of which involved SD not speaking to us--encouraged by her mother) and after one horrific holiday with the skids, I told DH I would NOT any longer be treated like s%i! in my own house and I was owed an apology. He spoke with the kids. SS called me and apologized (but his behavior actuallly worsened after that) and SD refused; therefore, I didn't see her for 7 wonderful years. DH would go visit her.
It's embarrassing to say, but SD is approaching 30 and SS is in his 30s now, and we have given them "chances" to behave like advanced modern humans rather than Neanderthals in our home, but they have held tightly to their childish resentments, so they are basically banned again.
Try this.
so they are basically banned again. forever.
That makes me feel much better.
Ugh.
Your SKs definitely sound like mine. This is what I'm afraid of, that they won't be growing up to be human beings I want to be around with. And I think it is all coming true. DH will of course still want them in his life, and that's fair enough. But the way they are going now I don't think that they would be the kind of people that I would want to be friends with and keep in contact with, which is a real shame. It is also really sad when BMs sow these seeds of anger, resentment and jealousy in their kids and in fact tarnish the relationships between the kids and their fathers and stepmothers. I never would mean harm to any of my SDs and I would never want them to not be able to see their father, but at the same time I don't think it's too much to ask for respect in my own home and healthy boundaries. I just keep saying to DH that he really needs to see them as they are, not through his rose-coloured glasses. I hope he really will wake up to see it all and realise what a load of BS this all is.
First of all. 18 yo
Is an adult and should be contacted directly. Not through BM. Check the CO for when CS stops. BM is not going to give up CS without a fight. Your DH is involving BM too much. Time to realize his kids are adults