Selling house and Iiving separately?
Will try and be brief!
Fiance and I been together nearly 4 years, living together for 3, I have 16M and 9F, he has 14F. Mine live with us, see their Dads regularly but son's dad has a lot of kids in his house and sometimes works away so can't go as much as he used to.
Problem is my son and fiancé, they just don't get on. Appreciate it's weird for a 13yo boy to be thrust into a new relationship and house etc, he was never the most outgoing at that point so didn't really respond to fiances efforts of taking him out, buying things, doing holidays etc. Has been mentioned a few times that makes fiancé feel uncomfortable in his own home when son walks out of a room as soon as he walks in, and gets blanked and not talked to etc. But son doesn't seem interested in trying to make basic efforts, not expecting best friends just to be civil and acknowledge.
Fiance does have different parenting style to me, he is more discipline driven, can be shouty (has got much better recently though) and very much 'I pay for the house so stick by my (very basic and reasonable) rules.
Fiancé feels he put in the effort in the early days (which he did to be fair) to try and get to know son and include him in everything, but was never reciprocated and has been going downhill since. Son's dad fees that the adults should always be the ones to put in the effort so fiancé should be willing to keep pushing and trying which I don't completely disagree with, but I can see how disheartening it would be to just keep being ignored with no effort from son.
Until this week son always said wasn't fussed and happy to just plod along, but this week he effectively said I am picking fiancé over him and he doesn't feel welcome in the family (fiancé doesn't buy him presents any more after never being thanked in the past etc).
So now we are in the position of last chance saloon and likely to be having to sell our house (nice 4 bedroom, best we've both ever had!) and lliving separately. I'm not fussed about material things but the thought of having to go from this lovely house to a small 2 bed flat isn't appealing!
Should also add that I don't like his daughter, she causes nothing but trouble (feel a bit bad saying that as she is autistic which brings issues) but she isn't here all the time and I feel I can handle it when she is here. She has caused plenty of arguments in the past and added to his stresses.
Basic question would be, am I wrong for expecting son to step up a bit and make some effort for harmony in the family? Only asking for pleasantries and to not actively ignore, and stick to the basic rules of tidy up after yourself, keep room reasonable and respect the people who work and pay for the house. Or should fiancé get over himself and be the one who accepts the situation or put the effort in to try and get relationship with him going, even when precious efforts blanked. I don't want my son to think it's his fault if we have to move but it's hard to have no resentment for things going wrong just because he can't say hello in passing or respect someone getting up at 4am to work to provide.
Few things I didn't mention;
Few things I didn't mention;
My daughter is fine with him, has had moments in the past when she has been shouted at which she didn't like but generally they are ok. They hang out and so he is happy to take her places and buy her things etc.
Apart from this, our relationship is brilliant. On the weekends without the kids we have an amazing time so I feel we would be ok in separate houses. I found my true love so am happy to go without other things to keep it, but not exactly enthralled about the idea!
Son due to go off to uni in just over a year, but can't guarantee that would happen, and his dad has had a go at me for suggesting that if he doesn't go, we reverse the roles and son lives with him 85% of the time and does the every other weekend thing with me.
True love
"True love" does not live in separate househoulds nor sleep in separate beds.
Yep.
Yep.
Your son doesn't have to like
Your son doesn't have to like your fiance, but you should expect basic respect and decency from him, and enforce it with consequences. He's old enough to be held accountable for his rude behavior.
Thanks, yes that certainly is
Thanks, yes that certainly is reasonable.
To be clear I do do discipline and give consequences etc, but just not as much or in the same way as fiancé.
Trying to find the balance between both people feeling comfortable and happy in their home, which is hard! Not helped by his dad seemingly saying it's not his fault at all and it should all come from fiancé.
thats suprised me tbf as I though we were on a similar page.
Honestly I agree with your spouse
I think any relationship is a two-way street for respect and kindness, and if that respect and kindess isnt returned its fair to withdraw the effort. However, I'm also very clear about it and don't make it a mystery why, like "well you just made fun of my body, so no, I'm not going to go swimming with you." I'm not cruel, but I do for sure disengage when treated poorly. Like expecting a thank you for presents or kindness at a dinner table isnt asking your son for too much. If your DH withdrew without explanation, maybe it's fair to ask him to try one more time, but honestly, if he's still being civil, he's not hurting the kid or doing anything wrong.
In the early days he really
In the early days he really made an effort to take each kid out separately to get to know them, he paid for a holiday to Italy which wasn't hugely appreciated, got birthday and Xmas presents for which no gratitude was shown so he did slowly disengage. He pays 95% of the bills for the house (I get food and internet) so a basic level of interaction as 'payback' for that doesn't seem unreasonable?
what has mostly annoyed / surprised me is the lack of back up for me from his dad, we've always supported each other but I'm surprised about this. He seems to think that the adult should take all of the responsibility/ blame and be the one that puts in all the effort as he is the one who has a problem with it. Is that 'normal'?
You are surprised that your
You are surprised that your ex isn't being more supportive of your fiance? Y'all must have had one heck of a good coparenting relationship over the years.
What surprises me, is that
What surprises me, is that the ex seems to be okay with the fact that his son blatantly disrespects the adult that he lives with.
Son's dad feels that the adults should always be the ones to put in the effort
He seems to think that the adult should take all of the responsibility/ blame and be the one that puts in all the effort
So, I guess the bio dad is okay with his son being a rude, disrespectful brat, OP's fiance should just suck it up and bend over backwards for the kid. Oh, and take all responsibility. Okay.
I don't think OP expects ex to support her fiance, so much as she expects her ex to expect a little more from their son regarding manners.
I guess what i'm saying is,
I guess what i'm saying is, when it comes to what goes on in OP's home with her current partner, her ex should not be part of the equation. They may have a great relationship and work well together when it comes to issues with the kid, but she should not rely on her ex to fix things that are happening with her current partner. Her ex may have other priorities that conflict with her and her new man having a happy home, if you know what i mean?
My opinion is it's best to leave him out of it. She's putting her ex in the middle of an issue that's between her, her current, and her son, when i don't think she should be sharing those things with her ex.
That's the thing, we really
That's the thing, we really have! We did 50/50 for the first few years with no maintenance being paid, we've done parents evenings together for the whole 11 years, looked after each others' other kids, gone on days out together for his birthday etc. Which is why I am surprised!
Your DH is more than reasonable
Have you ever drawn the connection for your son between his behavior and your partners disengagement? Like "I'm sorry you feel like you aren't a part of the family but when you don't contribute and aren't polite we all grow estranged from each other. Relationships require respect and kindness." Because yeah, If I was taking the skids to Italy and paying 95% of the bills and couldnt even get the acknowledgment of a thank you, I'd feel pretty burnt too.
also, it's great that you and your ex have had a good co-parenting relationship but you need to have your husbands back. And also, he's not letting your kid grow and take responsibility. He's not a three-year-old who's still learning manners.
also I don't think this has to be handled with any sort of harshness. If you son doesnt understand the relationship between his actions and his stepdads withdrawal, explain it. Let him have the choice between manners and family interaction, and refusal To engage and your husbands withdrawal. I don't think you need to be at the place of moving out. I don't mean this in a cruel way but your Son needs to see that he is manufacturing his own rejection here.
Yeah.. sorry OP.. I kind of
Yeah.. sorry OP.. I kind of agree here. Your SO has made more than reasonable overtures with your son. Your son has behaved like an ungrateful turd. Your SO has, as a result, disengaged and chosen to not spend resources where they are not appreciated.
You have failed your son by not setting him straight a long time ago. If he wants to be part of the family.. he should have understood and appreciated your SO was part of the family and that it was HIS choice not your partners that brought you here.
I would absolutely not cowtow to my child because he failed to allow the families to blend. If I were your DH.. I wouldn't honestly want to remain married if this is the solution.
Now.. you said your spouse does get loud.. would you honestly consider his behavior abusive? if so, maybe this isn't a huge loss for you?
^^This^^
I agree with the two previous posters.
It sounds as if your son has daddy issues, and you haven't required him to show basic respect to your partner. No wonder the man is done with being shunned and mistreated.
You also allow your ex to have too much say over what happens in your home. You cut him all kinds of slack, but won't stand up for your partner, the guy rooting all the bills?
Bottom line is, your son is the problem. Maybe get into some family therapy, but stop letting him get away with being a turd.
Agree
OP, tell your ex to butt out. You need to have a sit down with your son and lay down the law. He doesn't have to like DH but MUST respect him and the rules of your home together, regardless of what exH says. Then follow through with consequences.
Your DH should not have to deal with your rude son. Sorry but this touched a nerve because that is how Bratty McBratFace SD24 acted when she lived here and it was not pleasant for me. Please parent your son.
I agree with your fiance. He
I agree with your fiance. He made an honest effort and has been treated poorly by your son. Your son's behavior is rude and unacceptable. Your ex is just wrong - an adult does not need to keep subjecting himself to being ignored and rejected by a bratty teenager. It was your job to make your son treat your fiance with respect, and obviously that hasn't happened.
Thanks all, I do respect the
Thanks all, I do respect the views and am willing to accept an element of responsibility for it.
I find it weird how people can think so differently though, talking to my girlfriends about this there is definitely a sway towards how it's more my fiancé's fault and how I should put the kids first. I get an element of that, but should I throw away my happiness, his efforts and money and our best relationship so far just because he can't say hello and join in a conversation?!
I only mentioned the ex thing as we have been on the same page with everything before and had a very good relationship so it's thrown me that it's gone so differently now. Planning to chat to him later just so he can't say he doesn't know what's going on.
Fiance has been shouty in the past yes, but ironically only once I can recall with my son and that was about something silly like not apologising for something so we turned internet off. It's mostly with his daughter (which is a whole other conversation!) and my daughter has had it a little bit only really when his daughter has had an influence on her which led to negative things. But that is much much better now and he is dealing with things in a better way. He lets me tell my kids when there's a problem so it doesn't seem like he's always having a go at them and he definitely is better (despite having very stressful long hours job which has led to high blood pressure recently too).
actually reading this forum has made me realise that we're actually pretty lucky compared to have some people have it so I'm at least grateful for that!
Your girlfriends aren't
Your girlfriends aren't likely a bunch of stepmom's that have been crapped on by stepkids for years.
We will give you the honest truth.
My philosophy with being in a blended family is simple. You don't have to love each other (step kids, step parent, step siblings) but you do have to show basic common courtesy and kindness. As children you will show respect to the adults in the house. As an adult you do you best to be inclusive of everyone.
Pretty simple stuff. Your ex is likely threatened by someone else being a "father figure" to your son on some level. Otherwise, basic decency would have him supporting your SO and also speaking with your son on the fact that he needs to be polite and respectful. If you son can't do that, I would say he needs to go live with his dad.
If you make the choice to break up your home because your teenager is being an a$$, you just gave teenager TREMENDOUS power over your life. He will think that he has total control and that he can dictate how things will be in your home. I would never give a kid that much power. If you relationship wasn't working out, that is one thing. However, he is the problem, he is throwing a fit and you are bowing down to him. That is a lack of parental control and a dangerous place to be as a mother.
So, your friends also think
So, your friends also think it's okay for your son to act like an ass towards your fiance? Interesting. Why do they think it's your fiance's fault?
Putting your responsibility as a parent first does not mean letting your son be disrespectful, nor does it mean setting your happiness aside (unless there is abuse). Seems to me your son has an attitude and needs an attitude adjustment.
he effectively said I am picking fiancé over him and he doesn't feel welcome in the family (fiancé doesn't buy him presents any more after never being thanked in the past etc).
Does he understand WHY your fiance has disengaged from him and doesn't buy him presents, anymore? He needs to take accountability for his part in "not feeling welcome". He is old enough to know that there are consequences for treating someone badly.
Have you called your son out for his rudeness?
"I find it weird how people
"I find it weird how people can think so differently though, talking to my girlfriends about this there is definitely a sway towards how it's more my fiancé's fault and how I should put the kids first. I get an element of that, but should I throw away my happiness, his efforts and money and our best relationship so far just because he can't say hello and join in a conversation?!"
Why do your girlfriends think it's your fiance's fault when his decision to back off from a relationship with your son is in direct and natural response to your son telling him he doesn't want to have a relationship with your fiance?
Your girlfriends are not able to discern the difference between people being a PRIORITY in our lives vs "putting them first all the time" vs the concept of "responsibility".. It's not the same thing and in stepworld it can be difficult to manage, but you need to figure out where your priorities lie and how you can meet your obligations to people in your life while still living a life that brings you fulfillment.
Your children are your responsibility. As minors in the home, you are obligated to provide a safe place.. food to eat and to guide them forward in life to raise them up to be productive adults. Ensuring they meet educational milestones.. social milestones etc... You have an obligation to protect them to the extent you can.. for example, if your fiance was abusing your kids.. you would be obligated to remove them from that risk. (I don't understand that to be the case though).
However, that does not mean that your child would always take precedent in the home. You and your Fiance are the heads of the household. Your joint decisions are the primary winning vote. You both make the rules and set standards of behavior for the residents of your home (ie the kids).
One of those standards is that people are socially pleasant to the other residents of the home. Your son has apparently failed that lesson massively and been allowed to continue his truculence to the point where your fiance has decided that he isn't going to throw good money after bad. Your son didn't appreciate his efforts.. and he has decided he no longer needs to continue that type of relationship with your son. I'm guessing he is still generally civil to your son despite the fact that he isn't buying him stuff. Disengagement is a great way to survive steplife for the step parent. It is adopting an attitude that as long as what happens doesn't impact me??? I choose to no longer waste mental or physical currency on that person. Learning to coexist without any real concern.. basically. Your son should be able to have the relationship he wanted with your fiance.. he chose that it wouldn't be a friendly one.. your fiance is not obligated to continue to bang his head against the wall for your son.
So... yes.. of course your kids are reliant on you.. you would feed them "first" before you ate a portion if there were limited means.. But.. your relationship with your fiance needs to be a priority.. and sometimes one person's needs or wants may conflict with another's in the household.. it's all a balance..and sometimes one person may be the top priority.. while it may be totally different at another time.. BUT.. as the heads of the household.. you both should be getting the standard of respect your position holds.. I would keep in mind your fiance is carrying a big financial load for your kid.. even if the kid is being a pill..
If you aren't able to pull your kid up and explain how he set this up.. and if he wants it fixed...HE needs to make amends and put in effort to be genuine.. then it will be how it is.
And.. leave your EX husband the heck out of your relationship with your fiance.. he has no place in that.. your fiance isn't abusing your kid.. he is ignoring him a bit.. totally natural due to your boy's attitude.
IMHO if is time for the OP to
IMHO if is time for the OP to find more intelligent and mature friends.
smh
Some great
Some great insight and advice....you've covered this all very well while being very tactful.
This is your fault. Not son's
This is your fault. Not son's - he's only doing what you allow him to get away with. Not fiance's - he has no obligation to do anything for your child - especially if the child is rude & disrespectful. Would you allow him to treat a teacher or grandparent this way? It is your fault.
You have not taught your son basic manners (saying thank you for a gift). You have not adequately punished his disrespect - as he still feels free to do so. You are moving out because son's feefee's are hurt because he doesn't benefit from someone he treated like garbage? You are an awful parent & partner. Please do leave - that man deserves someone who will respect and appreciate his sacrifices for the family unit & get yourself to some parenting classes ASAP.
Well....
I would say that the odds of separate house holds being a survivable blended family model are about slim and none. Certainly there are those that have succeeded with that model, but, they are about as rare as unicorns in relation to those that fail with a separate household model.
I would say this, the issues your DH is struggling with are YOUR parental failures. You repeatedly have said your DH is reasonable in his expectations yet your DS has failed to deliver to those reasonable expectations. That leaves you as the point of failure in this struggling blended family situation.
So.. NO.. it is not unreasonable for you to firm up your parenting of DS by holding his feet to the fire of engaging respectfully with your DH. It should be an absolute requirement that your rude son changes his moody disrespectful crap immediately and permanently. You need to make that perfectly and unpleasantly clear to your disrespectful teen. Your DH should not have to suffer your parental failures.
As for your SD... at least there is a Dx'd justification for the challenges she represents. Undoubtedly there are opportunities for your DH to step up and effectively parent his daughter. He should do that as much as you should step up to effectively parent your DS-16. The good news.... with your DS and SD you are 2 and 4 years respectively from being rid of the kid related invasive behavioral drama which leaves you with only 9 more years of kid presence in your home until your own DD hits 18... unless you and DH add ours children to the mix. Keep in mind that even once kids launch, there has to be enforced standards of respectful behavior towards your DH, and he has to demand the same from his daughter towards you, and together you both have to demand that all kids respect your marriage.
Firm standards of respectful behavior required from any kids in the mix is an absolute if your marriage and joint home is going to survive. Kids cannot be tolerated to jeopardize the adult relationship at the heart of a blended family. PERIOD! That of course assumes that the adults are truly equity life partners and committed to their marriage above all else. That means that kids are not allowed to displace the adult relationships as the priority to either partner. Kids are the top relationship responsibility, but never trump the relationship. PERIOD!
Laissez faire parenting is a recipe for serial marriages, serial marriage failure, toxic, manipulative, and demanding children... for life, and bodes to a long term level of misery in the life of the parents of those children and anyone who naively agrees to tie their star to that failed parent.
Firm it up.
All IMHO of course.
Good luck.
Some people just done mesh. I
Some people just done mesh. I've been trying to get my fiancée to understand that. Unfortunately it probably won't happen and it'll be the end of my 11 year relationship. I tried to make it work as you fiancée has. Bought things, did lots of arts and crafts with SD when she was younger, tried doing all the little things with her but it just hasn't worked out. We have no relationship and I hate it when she's at our house which is 50/50. I've just accepted the fact that her and I will never ever be friends and I'm okay with that. However my fiancée is not. He wants some type of Mary Poppins shit and that's just not going to happen. There's been way too much damage. Just understand that your son and fiancée just might not have a connection and might never have one. We can't be expected to like everyone. Even as adults we tend to get different vibes with people.
Haha Mary Poppins shit, life
Haha Mary Poppins shit, life isn't always like hallmark cards and flowers hey.
i am in the same boat, I have tried everything with SD. Me and her just don't get on, more her problem not mine. She is nasty full stop amd evil.
my wife does not get it. She says she is and was a sweet girl until I came along. Wtf? Shi is diagnosed also with adhd and odd. Plays back and forth games with her real daddy.
meanwhile I am
yeying to keep my marriage and raise my 2 year old and this kid has ruined all of our lives and it's somehow all my fault.
im hearing you
Everything that I wanted to
Everything that I wanted to say has already been said, OP. Your DH disengaged because he needed to. Many of us have had to for varying reasons. If you move out for your son, you're showing him that he won, and it's okay to be a selfish brat, and you're showing your husband he's not important for a child that is going to be grown up and gone in a few years anyway. If you move out, you're doing a disservice for everyone.
This is a tough...
This is a tough situation and thanks for sharing. It's not easy for anyone in a lot of blended families. I will give you my two cents and remember.....it's only my two cents based on my own experiences.
I was married before and my son who was a SS to my wife at the time, was expected to treat her respectfully, acknowledge her, etc. This was the rule. I mean, my son was expected to be respectful of all adults so why would it be any different for my wife then? I'm not going to say it was always easy but as adults, we made the rules. No excuses....it just seems society today if full of excuses (Enough of my "high horse")
Fast forward to today, I am remarried (My ex and I had simply grown apart and it was a mutual decision...we are still friends) and my kids are grown. My son still keeps in touch with my ex (His step mom). I married a wonderful lady who has one grown son and two youngsters (SD is 13 and SS is 16). Much like your husband, I have tried really hard to bond with the kids but it has not worked out. I have taken them on vacations, paid for clothing and items that dad should have paid for but because dad is such a penny pincher I stepped up. Much like your fiance (WOW! A trip to Italy and it wasn't much appreciated?), the kids will come into a room, not acknowledge me with simple pleasantries like good morning, etc. Like your fiance, the kids don't appreciate the slack I've picked up because their dad is tight. Because I believe in rules and accountability, I would hold skids accountable to ensure they do what is expected of them. However, I noticed I was the nag....the bad guy...which in turn made me the "outsider." I didn't yell but I would be direct and stern. I do this so they understand that this is coming from someone who cares about them and if they don't learn these simple things now, what happens when they go out into the big world where others, who don't care about them, hold them accountable (OK enough of my high horse....again! *biggrin*) ... So i was bearing the brunt of the finances, being the bad guy as the only one who would enforce rules (My wife would try to enforce but preface by saying "you're not in trouble" and then no consequences followed) so I was truly the outsider.
As a result of this, I decided to disengage with my skids. I will no longer hold them accountable, foot the bill for their needs, etc. Instead, when they forget to do something, I ask my wife to talk to them. It's a tough place to be in and while I sympathize with you, I truly understand where your fiance is coming from and don't feel he is in the wrong. Now about your girlfriends stating your fiance is wrong.....well....they are your girlfriends who may not have been in a similar situation or just don't want to hurt your feelings by pointing out certain truths.
In a nutshell, I am simply sharing from my perspective as I understand how your fiance feels. Its not a good place to be and it does hurt when you do, and do, and do, and try, and try, and try, and receive little acknowledment or respect.....its just not cool or fair to him.
As much as I adore my wife, I will be the first to admit, I have moments where I question if I can continue to live like this or call it quits.... I keep telling myself "Only five more years.....only five more years." You will probably note that I used the term I "care" for my skids but please understand....when I say that I say it meaning there is a difference between "care" and "love" and while I care for them...I can't wholeheartedly say I love them. Relationships take fostering and its a two way street. No one deserves to be a "doormat."
Anyhoos....simply sharing from a perspective similar to your fiances and again...its only my two cents.