Seatbelt issue
It’s been made aware to us recently that BM is transporting the children in a car that doesn’t have enough seatbelts for everyone in it. Not only are we being told this but we actually found photo evidence.
Apparently she and a friend pick up their children together so at least 4 or more children are being stuffed into the back seat. BM has a vehicle of her own but we know for a she doesn’t have registration on it and most likely no insurance. We've seen the car and the tempoary tag you get after buying it is long past expired.
What sucks is I know that there is nothing we can do to fix the problem right now. I’m guessing she isn’t picking up the children through the car line because I’m pretty sure the school would say something? Then again I don’t think they could do anything either.
I have in the past called CPS for her transporting the children without any sort of car seat. Again I had photo evidence she was doing this and at that time it was illegal for the youngest to not have some sort of booster at the very least. I also KNEW she had one.
I know this doesn’t seem like a big issue because it’s not immediately harming the children but all it takes is one idiot to rear end the car and the kids get hurt because they aren’t properly restrained. I don’t know if it’s worse but it’s the youngest who is going without a belt and they just seem to expect a child who looks around 10 to hold him on his lap.
Comments
For me that would be a VERY
For me that would be a VERY big issue. I wouldn't call CPS, I'd call the cops if I knew where she'd be driving.
One of my daughter's schoolmates died when he unbuckled himself (parents didn't notice) and the car was in an accident on the motorway. The child was projected through the windscreen, across 3 lanes of traffic to the other side of the motorway into oncoming traffic ...
Another thing, nobody, NOBODY could hold onto a child in a collision, not even if you're only doing 30 mph.
Call the cops, you might save a life.
The cops won't do anything.
The cops won't do anything. We don't know for a fact when she will be doing this or how much it's happened in the past. She has a car of her own but doesn't pick them up every day. Sometimes she sends her family, sometimes she goes, and sometimes she rides with a friend. When she goes with the friend there are atleast 4 kids in the back seat. I can only assume they don't go through the car line so the school doesn't know. Even if they do I don't know what they can do about it.
I think all you can do is
I think all you can do is report it again. Sadly...
This is a huge deal to me
Hell, I won't even start my car until everyone is properly secured and that includes my two adult children who legally do not have to wear seatbelts.
I had an absolute fit at DH a couple of weeks ago for not having the proper car seat for grandson. He had a booster, GS is in a five point which he thought was in the car. He drove him in the booster and I was livid.
I agree with the above, I would call the police if you see the kids are not properly restrained.
The police won't do anything.
The police won't do anything. We can't call in that moment because it's happening during the week when she is doing pick up from the school.
The pictures aren’t enough because it’s after the fact and they won’t just go sit at the school and wait because they see it as a waste of time. I called CPS the first time and they didn’t even open a file.
Well, this is interesting -
Well, this is interesting - it may or may not be illegal for her to not have the kids belted in the back seat, depending on your state:
http://www.ncsl.org/research/health/state-seat-belt-laws.aspx
Even though I did survive the 60s and 70s, being completely unrestrained in the car even as an infant, it's generally considered unsafe nowadays to do that.
It is illegal. I know our
It is illegal. I know our states car laws. An ADULT can be in the BACK seat without a seatbelt. Any passenger in the front must have a seat belt and all children no matter where must.
Child under 6 must have at least a booster with children under 2 being in a car seat. Of course there are also weight and height limits that can be met too for these but the little one doesn’t meet either of them.
A battle I fought
I had a similar issue with YSS. When he was young enough to be in a booster he would argue with me about it because BM never made him sit in it. Similar issue with the seat belt. He would take his seatbelt off while we were still driving in the car just before getting to our destination. I would have to lecture him every time. MSS would always try to get away without wearing his seatbelt. I finally would just sit in the car and refuse to move until they were all latched in.
BM finally did end up getting a ticket for. It having YSS in a proper seat. Of course now he is the size of a grown adult so no booster needed.
You cant do much to force BM to comply other than refuse to allow the kids to go with her if she doesn’t have the proper needs for them such as boosters or seat belts.
She doesn’t pick up the
She doesn’t pick up the children from us because of her work. She has family come to get them. Legally neither of the kids has to be in a booster so there's nothing we can do. We can't prove if her family doesn't make them wear their seat belts and there are enough present.
This is happening when she picks up from school. I guess she is riding with a friend who’s picking up their kids also. There are at least 4 children all in the back seat so they are one seatbelt short.
In the past 2 weeks, my dad
In the past 2 weeks, my dad was in a near-fatal car accident where he wasn't wearing a seatbelt, and skids were rear-ended (granted it turns out they were barely bumped, but still). Last year SD was in another accident, and I hit a deer. That is 4 accidents in our family within the span of 1 year. I agree that while it's not bringing immediate harm to skids, accidents happen ALL the time, and not wearing a seatbelt dramatically increases your chance of not surviving or being severely injured. My dad was taken by flight for life because he hit his chest on the steering wheel and broke ribs/collarbone/collapsed both lungs. It's nothing to mess with.
I know you say the cops won't do anything, but I think you do have a few options. You could talk to the school and make them aware of your concerns and ask them to watch for it and call the police if they notice it. In most cases Officers will at least call and talk to the parent if these things are reported, even if there is no proof, so I don't think it's a total waste for you to call and talk to them about it. They might give you suggestions on how to handle it as well. I worked in law enforcement and have many friends in it- they typically will try to help in some way if they can. Just getting talked to may scare her enough to stop. Or maybe you send her a message saying you know this is happening, it's not ok, and you will pursue it further if it doesn't change.
Talking to her will only
Talking to her will only create conflict and her being vindictive / withholding the children during the extra time she is giving SO.
SO is looking into who he knows and seeing what he can do.
Again what doesn't help is her inconsistency. She doesn't always do pick up and we habe no clue as to tell in advance. The school can't monitor away from the car pick up line so I can only guess she is already avoiding it when she's with the friend. They may also be picking up the other children after they get her kids.
Is this the kind of
Is this the kind of endangerment that your DH might try to get an emergency order to not allow her to take custody until she can prove that she is able to provide safe transportation?
I don't see that working. She
I don't see that working. She can always claim it was just one time or the proof we have doesn't prove anything. "Sure he was sitting on his lap but we weren't actally driving."
Call 911 and report a vehicle
Call 911 and report a vehicle driving erratically. You might have to enlist some help to make this happen but if you know when she is driving and can "set her up" to get pulled over, she might get a ticket for not having them buckled up correctly.
I don't know what else you can do. It sucks when BMs like this can get away with so much.
We don't live in the same
We don't live in the same area and it's not consistant enough for us to do that. Even if we lived in the area we would have to stop our lives for days if not weeks to catch her doing it again. Like I said it's not an every day thing. Sometimes she does the pick up alone or sends her family.
We're saving the picture along with the other one from when the kid was younger. We'll give it to a lawyer when we try to change the custody order. Let them deal with it.
If the kids are old enough to
If the kids are old enough to understand that they are not to drive without proper restraints.. then they should be able to refuse to get in a car. Tell them that they should go to a school official to say that they can't get in the car.. if they have their own cell phones.. they can also call you. Unfortunately, it sounds like realistically this is all you can do is try to get the kids to do the right thing.
I would also inform the
I would also inform the school that this is happening and that you (as in, your SO) is not happy to hear that it is happening on their property. And that you have picture proof that it is happening after school, to boot!
That may put the kids on the school's radar and make them watch out for BM, too. The school doesn't want a lawsuit, so if they are made aware that this is happening, they may start having someone make sure the kids are properly restrained for leaving - at least if it happens on their property (which most schools won't allow parents to pick up kids near the school; it has to happen at the school).
I don’t have a photo showing
I don’t have a photo showing it happened on their property. I have a photo of it happening focused on the kids in the back seat and the A+ one of them got on a spelling test. I have good reason to believe it’s happening BECAUSE of school pick up.
I also know BM and the friend do pick up at more than one school so there is a high chance it’s not happening at their school but one of the other children’s school.
Either way, the school watches the car pick up line. They can’t watch their parking lot or the area near and they don’t prevent parents from picking up the kids near the school, walking to pick up, or anything like that. We NEVER go through the car pick up line because of how long it takes. We walk to the door, collect them, and then go back to our car in the parking lot. The school isn’t responsible for anything that happens after the bells rings and a parent collects their children.
They don’t have their own phones. I’m not going to try and get a kindergartener to go against his mother who already has a history of abuse towards the kids’ father and admitted in the divorce paperwork that she spanks the children. Kids don’t go against mothers. Even abused children don’t say anything bad about their mothers. We as adults have to deal with this and I’m not placing it on the child.
I’m saving the picture for when we try to change custody after the move. She can explain it to a judge then and I’m sure she’ll claim they weren’t moving but it will raise questions and if the judge does ask the children the oldest will tell the truth. The youngest will do his typical show of “I don’t know.”
Honestly, let it go.....
I've tried and tried to conquer this issue with my AD and her Bf. They've been pulled over--no insurance, no license, no car seat and given fines and a warning. It's not worth the stress anymore. This is an issue your DH needs to handle--you need to step back. I was ordered to drive my GD to and from visits because her Bio-dad didn't have a license, insurance or vehicle--he had to pay my gas $$, but in hindsite I wished I didn't make a big deal out of it.
He could bring it up during a custody hearing, but it's not a slam dunk. Even spanking is legal in my state. Chances are the kids won't even be asked to testify. It's dumb but a lot of 'crappy parenting' is legal. Or not illegal enough to lose custody over.
So how do parents drive that
So how do parents drive that SO has actually witnessed when he picks the kids up from school? Does he witness crazy *ss drivers? Speeders in school zone? Illegal parking which blocks view of other drivers? You get the idea.
Instead of perhaps making this about your two kids only, you might get somewhere either through the school with pressure on the local police or directly making complaints to the police.
The parents are batsh*t crazy drivers around the school herein my small village. It gets to be a total hazard to other drivers ,walking children blah blah. When it gets out of hand, out comes the county sheriff to babysit morning and after-school traffic . Sure, I imagine the sheriff office isn't thrilled to have to bother ,but the office is paid to do their job and reckless drivers nd/or illegal driving is part of their job.
Sheriff deputy comes, babysits a couple weeks, hands out tickets, parents behave for a few months after, then the cycle begins again.
Perhaps go to a school board meeting if SO has witnessed enough crazy driving in an around the school zone and ask the school to put pressure on the police dept. to assist in getting the crazies under control. City council meeting to voice concern over the crazy driving and/or illegal drivers.
There is more than one way to get the police dept.'s attention than one call over a seat belt.
You might get lucky and BM will get trapped in while LE babysits an area they prefer to ignore.
I never said there were
I never said there were issues with drivers around the school. It’s actually pretty calm. I complained that waiting in the car line takes too long but that’s actually because how safe they are. You can wait 10 minutes for one car to move because of how they give right away to walkers at all times instead of making them wait a minute for a car to go.
This is an issue with BM only, not the school. People keep saying to get the school involved and I’m saying the school can’t do anything. We can’t just call the police and tell them to wait at the school because BM doesn’t always pick up the children. We don’t know if this picture was taken outside of “our” children’s school or the other kid’s school which is across town. For all we know it was taken outside of a Wal-Mart. We just know it has to do with school pickups because the picture shows the kids with their backpacks and one’s showing off a test.
I think everyone is just
I think everyone is just trying to offer helpful advice, but it seems like maybe you weren't really looking for suggestions and were more just looking to vent. I'm sorry if you were, I know that it can be annoying when you just need to vent and everyone is all trying to offer advice, however well-meaning it is. Sometimes venting is just venting.
I know you keep saying "The school won't do anything, the cops won't do anything, we can't talk to BM because she will start trouble"...but are you saying this because you have already tried and it hasn't worked? Or you just don't think it will? (I'm sure BM would be a bi**ch about the situation, but eh, but maybe it's worth it, maybe not) I guess I am of the mindset that if something is bothering me enough, I will try anything to do something about it. It takes a lot before I throw my hands up and say I've tried everything and nothing has worked, I give up. I just don't know how strongly you feel about this situation.
BM doesn't seem too worried about skids safety, which is always amazing to me!
As I said I have tried. I’ve
As I said I have tried. I’ve called DHS is in the past and again they didn’t even open a file. We’ve talked with BM about “issues” in the past and she withholds the children. Contacting the school won’t help with they don’t even care about the youngest acting out in class and hurting other children.
SO is looking into who he knows in the area but the issue is all his cop friends work in the next county over and have no power. On top of it we wouldn’t even know when to tell them to be at the school or what car to look for. BM doesn’t do all school pickups. She doesn’t always go with her friend.
BM cares I’m sure until it’s inconvenient. She wouldn’t transfer a booster from one car to the other. She’s not going to turn down a free ride to pick up the kids just because there are too many. She doesn’t think anything will happen to her and it’s “not that far” of a drive which was the “excuse” as to why she didn’t have him in a booster the last time.
Unfortunately, it sounds like
Unfortunately, it sounds like you are unable to do anything about this at all. You can't report it. You can't tell the kids to refuse to get in a car. You can't take BM to court to get custody. This is going to be one of those things that will just aggravate you and hopefully the kids won't suffer a consequence. Put it squarely in the bucket of "don't worry about things that you have no control over" If it is true, it is illegal and dangerous, but since your DH is unable or unwilling to press this in court or push the child to defy their mother.. then that is the risk he is taking. Either he presses this issue by perhaps hiring someone to investigate and get proof (PI).. or he let's it go as just another crappy thing his EX does
We are saving it for when we
We are saving it for when we do go to change custody hopefully next year but no, we can’t afford to do it right now. What horrible people we are for making sure the kids get fed and he pays his child support.
I can report it but it will go ignored like they did the last time. I mean DHS cared so much they didn’t even open a file.
And yeah. I’ll tell a small child to defy his mother and let her beat his a** while she then withholds the extra weekends she’s been giving us because how dare I tell a child it’s ok to disobey his mom.
Care to help fund a privet eye since you’re implying it’s so easy? Sure that’s all we need and a judge will give us primary custody. Think they’ll give her only visitation too?
Seriously I get it. There’s nothing I can do. I didn’t come here saying there was. I came here frustrated about it and wanting to vent but yeah take a dig at us. Clearly my partner doesn’t really care and want his kids because that’s all it takes right. Care enough and a lawyer will do it for free. Care enough and a judge will see through the crap. Care enough and everything will be rainbows and happy time.
I was not taking any digs at
I was not taking any digs at you or your DH. I get it.. your hands are virtually tied... the stakes to try to do anything are too high. I don't know your financial situation so the suggestion of possibly a PI was if somehow you DID want to still try to document it and possibly could afford to hire an independant person to document the situation. The crux of my response was that the best advice is to not stress over things that you don't have any control over. Things that happen when the kids are with the EX fall into that category.
Again, the PI was a thought because some of your issues with reporting is that she could "deny" it as being just a static picture.. if a third party documented different, you might have more of a leg to stand on. I have no idea what a PI costs.. or whether you could afford it. Just thinking outside the box on things that might help you. In fact, I think virutally everyone on here was trying to be helpful.
Sorry if you took offense because none was meant. I'm sure it is very frustrating for your husband to have to turn his child over to an abuser.
We're on the edge of having a
We're on the edge of having a home and we're working our way through the VA. We honestly don't think this will be enough to sway custody. It's one more thing we'll put in the pot for a lawyer to use. We intend to focus on her giving us the children all the time already. She's already giving us over half of "her" Christmas Holiday. We don't want to risk her taking that time away. We’ve had them almost every weekend since school started and nearly every extra day they weren’t in school. SO is only supposed to have every other weekend.
I think if dad has photo
I think if dad has photo evidence of kids not buckled up and people driving without registration and so on, it will look very bad if he waits to show it to judge later. It would look like his priority isn’t kids’ safety. He needs to make a police report now, not wait to use to win the case. Kids’ safety should be a priority.
I see someone suggested to fund PI snd you sayd it’s not easy. Why? it takes about 5 minutes to find PI. Tell me where you live, and I’ll send you names and phone numbers. It’s not hard to find af all
Sure nothing might come out of it but you still have to report rather than hold on to it for later. It’s just not right. Why isn’t dad reporting it? What’s his rationale? If he chooses not to follow through and there is nothing you can do then it’s better to not worry about it.
The police won’t a report on
The police won’t a report on heresy. As I’ve said I’ve tried reporting her in the past and they didn’t do anything.
No one said they would fund a PI. They said we should get one to prove the case and I said we couldn’t afford it. You think I’d turn down anything that would help SO get his kids?
You clearly read part of the responses but you’re picking and choosing what parts you want to respond to.
It’s impossible to reply to
It’s impossible to reply to everything. Of course people choose what to respond to. I respond to what I know.
I know from very long professional and personal experience that judges don’t look favorably and typically dismiss evidence of neglect/abuse/endangering of children being presented as argument in custody fight instead of being reported at the time of endangerment. You can’t possibly know everything better. There are things that you don’t know.
Point isn’t that police will do anything. Point is again that if dad believes that children are endangered he ought to make a report. Previously filed report could be looked at by a judge. But stories and pictures of something that happened or didn’t happened awhile ago aggravate and irritate judges. If judge sees that dad was not willing to do anything but waited that long, he’d see that dad doesn’t see any of it as a big issue and only brings it up to win a fight. That’s how it’s going to look.
Let me try this again.
Let me try this again.
The
Police
Won't
Take
A
Report
I
Tried.