Here I thought the law inforced justice... HELP really need advice.. I dont know how we will keep the roof over our heads!
So BF went to court today armed with a reasonable budget that could not handle spousal support or the current amount we are paying in child support. BM is asking to move the kids and get primary custody therefor not having to pay any CS and also have BF support her while she attends school. BF's response was go to school but leave the kids here in our town and I will take care of them for that time. BF's family is here and BM's family is no where near where she is trying to move we thought that was a serious advantage esp for their well being. SD is 6 and all of her friends and school is here SS is 1.5 and has been brought up here they have lived here for 3 years. BF was also paying high CS earlier this year then switched jobs so he could get 50/50 custody before court and he had it for an extended amount of time before court. Anyways he started paying it less when he got this new job so he could be home for his kids.
BF went to court the judge absolutely destroyed BM's budget said nothing about BF's then promptly sided with her. She is moving the kids BF is loosing his 50/50 she is now primary parent. He gets his kids 3 weekends of the month and pays FULL child support based on his expected annual income without any break for overpaying her earlier in the year. On top of that the judge is giving her 1.5 years of alimony. BM btw has a full time job that she is expecting to quit to have BF support her. Our budget on the other hand was already negative 1000 a month so we have no idea how we are going to fund this. The order starts in 2 weeks and we don't have the money.
We are aware of undue hardship but unsure if that will put the payments we have to pay in two weeks at bay. BF needs his licence to work so we are worried about maintenance. We live in alberta Canada.
Does anyone have any advice?!!?
- lil_lady's blog
- Log in or register to post comments
Comments
We currently have a family
We currently have a family services file going because BM hit SD6 so hard in the face she made her nose bleed. This was almost 3 months ago. Last visit my SD6 told me she didn't want to go on vacation with BM she wanted to go with me because I don't yell at her. She said she asks her mom to stop screaming at her and all BM says is I am the boss. I am considering calling the family services worker and talking to him about this new thing. BM also has a new bf and SD talks about him but when I ask her if she likes him she looks down and wont talk about it. SD also did not want to go home right around the time that this new guy came along....
Both of them have attorneys
Both of them have attorneys his lawyer told him he cannot appeal because the judge did nothing "Wrong"
I think some of the facts are
I think some of the facts are missing.
Is your BF still married to BM? (I haven't heard of alimony being awarded after a final divorce, but I'm sure it could happen.)
These children are very little...one is only 1 1/2? That's just a baby. I can't imagine a mother losing primary custody of them unless she's a hot mess.
Did he get his CS lowered before he took a lower paying job and started paying less? Or did he just do it? Because, quite honestly, if your BF was making, say, $5000 a month previously, his CS and alimony would have been set at that. Then, if he chose to take a job paying $3000 a month (regardless of the reason...even if it's to get more custody) then judges aren't going to take too kindly to dad suddenly crying poor and complaining that he can't afford the CS/alimony order.
It may not be fair, but it is what it is. :/
So, it seems right that BF will need to pay full CS based on his income, even if it sucks for you.
Honestly, if you were already in the red a grand every month, he probably shouldn't have taken a lower paying job. And, you will probably need to revamp your income/expense situation. No one can keep up a household that's $12K in the hole every year.
Good luck.
This was their court hearing
This was their court hearing for a divorce... it has been drawn out for 2 years now. He was NOT asking for primary custody BM wants to go to school 45 min out of town for her SECOND diploma payed for by BF, granted the first one was when they where together but she still did not work during it. SS has been with us 50/50 for a year now and was never breast fed or had any attachments with his mother. Never cries when he leaves goes running to dad he is also 20 months. Maybe it is your opinion but I would think dad has just as much importance as mom. He simply stated if she was to move his kids not be uprooted and still let her have joint whatever her decision might be.
Because there has been no court for 2 years when BM took him to court for custody BF took the time to find a different job in town and took so he could see his kids and fight for 50/50. His lawyer informed him if he tried to keep his job without a schedule he would not get it. His out of town job was irregular so with it the kids could not have a routine or a schedule. He is not being pinned for that in alberta you are only judged on that if you purposely under employ yourself to fuck over BM this was not the case. He also took an in town job for a steady paycheck as his wage was not garunteed it was contact work. Anyways when he was working away from home he paid the legal amount of CS. When he got his new job he figured out his new expected annual income for that year and under the advice of his lawyer payed that amount in CS and offset it by his previous overpayments that year.
BF got a pre court joint custody agreement (not court ordered) in which case BM should have been paying her share in CS but did not. We expected to see that be evened out in court even though it was only 3 months of money before todays court case. The judge just decided it did not matter what he had previously given her and did not award him ANY proactive CS even though BM has been working since January and never payed a cent.
As for the under 12K that is the problem we have adjusted and readjusted. That budget does not even include clothing for the kids. That means we don't even get haircuts... we don't go out. We buy our groceries in bulk I mean there is literally nothing there. We have been advised to go the undue hardship route but we don't know if we can afford more lawyers fees.
The additional info is
The additional info is helpful, and the fact that you're in Canada means some things are different.
I think his new job is better all the way around.
It does sound like your BF *should* have been paying a certain amount of CS and then just "adjusted" it unilaterally and then decided to apply what he considered to be overpayments against the current shortfall. That can't be good, but I may be misreading it. A lawyer can't re-write the CS order. That's what judges are for.
As for being as broke as you are...are you working? I ask because CS doesn't leave payors destitute. If he is paying CS at the legal amount based on his income, then he may not be financially comfortable, but he'll be able to live. If you are working and carrying your own weight, there really isn't a reason to be four digits negative every month. That's crazy and no way to live. I hope you're able to figure something else out.
We are both working... our
We are both working... our mixed income is only 5,600 and when his hours go back to normal full time it will be 5,000. Rent is unusually high (1300) and we have 2 dogs, its more expensive to rent a house that will allow them. The judge has ordered 1600 for her and 73% of day care costs whatever that might be we could very well be giving her 2500. We both have vehicle payments and he is in debt up to his ying yang because he had to furnish a new home and buy everything for the kids so they didn't feel they where "visiting". When I came along he was tapped so my credit got out of hand as well. We where planning on catching up now that I am finally out of school and working.
I guess that's why I am confused how can a judge look at that budget have nothing negative to say then allow that much money to be awarded.
Check out DaveRamsey.com You
Check out DaveRamsey.com
You will have to sell one or both cars and get cheaper ones. That will free up a lot of money in your budget. One or both of you will have to work a second job.
Once you have quit living on credit and living within your means, things will be better. Not saying what the judge did was right, just saying that there IS a way out.
Judges will NOT take bills into account because they feel like the primary responsibility should be the child(ren) before any credit cards or vehicle payments.
THat is why I don't really
THat is why I don't really rage against dead beat dads, the mother can quit her job to go to school and gets a pat on the back, if a man did that he'd be hung out to dry. That's why I am a little sympathetic when you hear about guys that work under the table. They are supposed to be Homeless and hungry because it's in the child best interest?
Exactly my point she has a
Exactly my point she has a full time job that pays more then mine right now. I would love to quite and go back to school! If you want to point fingers of someone ditching out of money that's a good one to point. Not to mention she is doing all of this because she does not want to drive 45 min. Oh and btw she already has post secondary training... that he paid for as well because he was working and she was going to school
he pays something, when he
he pays something, when he could just disappear. no sympathy. the system is rigged against men. I am mad about it.
WTF You're ok with a man not
WTF
You're ok with a man not supporting his kids ($40 a month is a joke) while playing super dad to his step kid?????
I have a lot of wacky
I have a lot of wacky opinions. But until there is real equality with this system I totally understand why a lot of men go off the grid. Im not okay with it. Just like I was NOT okay when my DH was on unemployment because it was not enough money to support all our kids but I was sympathetic. We had got through it.
It'll be different when
It'll be different when you're the mom and the deadbeat ex goes off the grid leaving you to support the kids on your own.
Been there, done that. Have ZERO sympathy. There was a time I was paying way, way more than half of my income for my kids' support.
Maybe, Dh and I have had a
Maybe, Dh and I have had a conversation about if things didn't work out, I told him he'd be taking the kids with him.
I'd die before I'd leave my
I'd die before I'd leave my kids.
Someone else thought I was
Someone else thought I was crazy when I suggested my friend give her ex custody of her boys because she was drowning in debt. But this is where I'm coming from. DH is a good dad and the kids love him. If we were to split I would rather him being the one that has to shuffle them to and fro, homework brush teeth feeding cleaning. My time with them would be quality and relaxed and less mundane. It's selfish I know but I told DH unlike his ex I do not have to feel like the superior parent. But honestly I can't picture a life with out DH, or all the mundane day to day stuff with the kids. I have been experiencing a 7 year itch with him but I am committed and I want to grow old with him he suits me.
Well, then...it sounds like
Well, then...it sounds like you're not that happy in your life and marriage...
A seven year itch?
Don't want to actually take care of your kids?
Now I see what you side with deadbeat parents.
I love love love my babies,
I love love love my babies, It would just be nice to be the Disney parent. no not really happy I guess.
"was making, say, $5000 a
"was making, say, $5000 a month previously, his CS and alimony would have been set at that. Then, if he chose to take a job paying $3000 a month (regardless of the reason...even if it's to get more custody) then judges aren't going to take too kindly to dad suddenly crying poor and complaining that he can't afford the CS/alimony order."
But the mom can quit her job to go to "school" and cry poor to get spousal support. That's BS Also The dad quit his job because they have a 50/50 custody arrangement, he had to make sure he was there for his 50%. A mo has no judgement if she chososes to not work at all to be a homemaker but he gets shit for working a different job?
I don't know what to say the game is rigged you need lots of money to get the good lawyers tht know all the papers to file etc...sucks. Whats the update on the slap? was she seen by a doctor?
No, I don't think she should
No, I don't think she should just quit her job and get alimony. BUT, and this is a big, fat, BUT, she and the OP's BF are still married. That changes things. This isn't an established divorce with children. They are married, and she was given a whopping year and a half of maintenance to "rehabilitate" herself for the work place.
There are posters on here who support and have received alimony. They felt they'd earned it. How is this different?
And, no...I never even asked for maintenance. I happen to think that adults should be expected and required to care for themselves, even though I spent more than 15 years at home raising the family.
BTW, going back to school following my divorce was the absolute smartest thing I've done in a long time. My income has grown 250% in those 6 years.
In the long run, an education will increase BM's earning capacity, which benefits BF in this case. He's got 16+ years left of CS payments.
I guess my only problem with
I guess my only problem with that train of thought is BM already has her high school diploma and a post secondary diploma. BF hasn't even gotten the chance to finish high school he worked out of town to support his family from the age 18. So why doesn't he get to go to school?
In this day and age when both
In this day and age when both men and women are usually working and depending who wanted the divorce and for what reason I don't really support the alimony thing. But I understand if a woman was a home maker and her husband wanted to go off and live with his 20 year old secretary that the wife should be entitled to enough time to be able to get skilled enough to earn a living. Seems rarely the case though these days.
We were not told in time to
We were not told in time to get her checked by a doc. Last we heard family services needed to go see SS to finish their investigation. I will be calling them tomorrow to update them on SD6 behavior as of late. She tells me almost every time we get them she doesn't like her mom as much because BM is mean and screams at her.
I am really not comfortable
I am really not comfortable with SD having to go live with her mom that much. I am the only person that SD will actually talk with this about and her counselor. So worried about this little lady.
SD should be starting back at
SD should be starting back at school, if they notice anything off or if she can tell her teachers whats going on hopefully they will help her.
We only have until November
We only have until November before she is at a new school... I don't understand how a judge can knowingly allow a 6yr old to start gr 1 in one school then switch to another.
Honestly? Because she's only
Honestly? Because she's only 6. She's just barely starting "real" school.
I hope you guys get this all figured out. :/
me too!
me too!
So what you are saying is at
So what you are saying is at all costs don't let it go to maintenance...? This is the first CO so they are no where near that.
can we get a stay of
can we get a stay of maintenance if we are in the middle of an undue hardship claim... if they garnish his wages we dont have money to eat. Can he call them and explain this? his payment to her is higher then his one of his paycheques. Also does both alimony and cs go through maintenance?
Trying to see an upside to
Trying to see an upside to this, at least the kids are only going to be 45 minutes away. It breaks my heart when I read cases where a BM is moving kids hours and hours away. 45mins is not all that bad, you'll get 3 wknds a month, and be able to keep a closer eye on any possible abuse situations. With the littlest in daycare and the oldest in school, that will help too...someone with some authority will be seeing these kids throughout the work/school week.
I'm not surprised the court tossed your Bf's budget. A more expensive house because he choses to have 2 dogs is not going to entertained by a judge as a necessity. The fact that BF's GF lives in the home (this is a divorce case) also would not be taken into consideration, nor any of the Gf's expenses as BF is not legally responsible for GF nor her bills. Bills like 'we each have a car payment' doesn't play into BF's bills. He's not responsible for OP's car payments, insurance, any bulk food items purchased for home ect ect ect. What a judge would care about is that Dad and two little kids have a home (small 2 bedroom apartment would be all that the court would deem necessary) and food for Dad and 2 little kids. Unnecessary extended credit to furnish a house and buy 'stuff' for kids wouldn't get much consideration either. BF choose to spend beyond his true needs and ability (a bit of used furnishings and a handful of outfits a pieces would have sufficed, kids don't need much: a roof, a bed, clothes, a few toys and food).
I'm sorry your BF got the ruling he did. I'm sure he's crushed his kids are moving and visitations will be less than before, but until (and that's n 'if') he can get a leeway on the ordered amount, what he needs to focus on is how he is going to pay both the amount and the arrears without you and BF going hungry and keeping a roof over your heads. You said his hours will b going back to fulltime. That'll be a big plus. Is there something he could work at part time now to help fill in the budget until his hours return? I can't help but think BF's lawyer lead BF astray in this. It sounds like lawyer advised BF to do all kinds of things in prep of winning and everything going Bf's way, thus BF made decisions and choices BF might not have made in the same way without being advised to do by lawyer. Almost like lawyer had his client counting his chickens before they were hatched.
Anyway, I hope things work out for you and I wish the little ones all the best in this adjustment of moving .
I am also in AB. I have only
I am also in AB.
I have only seen ONCE where undue hardship was "sort of" awarded - basically he filed, and the judge allowed a reduced structured CS plan - but not actually undue hardship - in his case he went on to have more kids with Wifey#2 - the first of which was severely handicapped - this was his basis...(the cost/bills etc) - course he ruined his case somewhat by claiming he couldn't afford the first two because of #3 - when he went on to have #4 and #5 with wifey#2...ahh well.
Heres the issue - its 18months. The fact hes/you are maxed out with your financial affairs is a problem yes, but if you were not it wouldn't be nearly the same issue. That unfortunately was a personal choice and compounds these things. I dont know where you live but $1300 isn't that high for rent - at least not where I am...
Also - as a LD family - 45 minutes is actually not so bad - really. Ours are in a place 3 hours from us. I PM'd you a little something, let me know if you get it...
I find it entertaining to
I find it entertaining to hear most of you are saying that 2500 a month is enough to live on. I guess thats my next question to all ofyou do you live on that much? As someone said above this Iis not uncommon rent wth or without dogs here. the more important point to me is the awarded amount is more than 50% of his income he makes 2800 with no OT.
Undue hardship is what this is for in our province esp because his debt incurred his from his seperation we have been advised by his lawyer to take that route. With what some of you are saying I think we need a second opinion
BM was never a stay at home mom.
When my son was born, I was
When my son was born, I was going to college and didn't get CS (until he was almost 10!).
After rent and utilities were paid, I had $250 a month to live on, including food for us. Granted, this was many years ago but there were times that I had to decide whether to put gas in my vehicle or to pay the insurance for my vehicle. Most of the time, I had no phone service and I never had cable.
It's not a way anyone would WANT to live but it isn't the end of the world. The best thing is to get yourselves out of debt ASAP...no matter whether or not you can get a judge to change his ruling or get a hardship request or anything of the sort.
If he has a ton of debt he has to pay that is due to his divorce, maybe he needs to look at filing for a bankruptcy. Or maybe see if he can get back to his former salary....
How much OT does he get? And
How much OT does he get? And for how long has he been getting it? That very well could have been factored into the calculation.
Of the $5600 household monthly income, how much is HIS? I'm thinking the majority of it is his... because he was ordered to pay $2500. Which, if that's the case, means you make very, very little. Do you work full time?
Your case doesn't sound like it's even remotely eligible for an undue hardship claim. You have more than enough income to live on, just not the way you're doing it. Turn the cars in, get ones with no car payments. The Dave Ramsey suggestion was dead on. It will help you.
Also, consider separating finances. If you make enough money to support yourself (and aren't relying on your BF to do it) then all should be fine. Pay your rent, pay your bills, etc. IF you want him to live with you, you'd still be paying your own rent. See what I mean?
Also, as another poster so helpfully pointed out to me, how is it that you've been dealing with this for TWO years when there is SS 1.5?? Were you skirting around with a married man (wait, you're still doing that because he's still married...) and he left his wife for you?
Cause if that's the case, this whole mess is called KARMA.
he cannot get back to his
he cannot get back to his salary the industry he worked in has crashes thats why he quite. Also after paying Sm he is left with 300 dollars to give me now I get that I should be paying half the bills however he should be in the position to pay me half the bills aswell. I shouldn't be paying for her alimony and cs.
Also after rent untilities vehicle payments we are tapped we cant afford to eat gas or insure our vehicles we woukd be happy if we had money left over to eat with. He has already tried to get ride of gis vehicle for a lower payment and done it successfully a few months ago so to get ride of this one he would have to ask them to repo it. I might be able to get rid of mine in 2 months but again only for a lesser payment..
Literally we cannot pay it and we certainly cant pay off the debt I am just wondering what we can do legally. I didnt think that the courts would let you starve!
Hahaha...You aren't paying
Hahaha...You aren't paying half of the bills???
So you're really bitching that he can't support you, too?!?
BTW, how do you have vehicles with car payments with no car insurance? I thought the lienholders required full coverage to protect their investment.
excuse me go back and read it
excuse me go back and read it again... he has 300 to put towards rent and bills let alone everything else. If you had educated yourself our rent is far beyond that. I would be paying ALL the bills and more including clothing BMs children.Point being if I am paying 80% of everything bm is getting my money aswell. No you cannot drive a vehicle without insurance thays the point we wouldnt be able to insure them if this goes through and we dont fight it. Thanks for coming out read the post next time.
Then what does this
Then what does this mean?
"now I get that I should be paying half the bills however... "
You are or are not paying your half?
And, again, if he is paying $2500 month and your JOINT income is $5600, how much of that are you contributing?
*
*
I would be paying more then
I would be paying more then half prolly all and more he might be ablw to feed his own kids and everything else is on me. Like I said he should be able to pay half aswell. Sit there and bring MY money and income into the picture then give him enough pay half himself. This is about HIS money and HIS responsibility to pay for HIS kids.Now because the guy has a gf bm gets to live comfertably on her ass unemployed while I work my ass off to support her income train. Right now bf is getting ot hrs making around 3200 I make 2400 whwn over time is done in a couple months he makes 2800.
You're free to remove
You're free to remove yourself from all if this at any time. Your BF and his wife can't.
I guarantee you, if he didn't live with you, he would find a way to pay CS, alimony and keep a roof over his head.
Im sure he would since my
Im sure he would since my income wouldnt be included!
Was your income actually
Was your income actually included in the calculation for CS/alimony? I missed that...
not really however it was
not really however it was said that I should be paying half the bills. I guess what pisses me off about that is he wasnt given enough income room to pay his half. So now not only is bm getting alimony her children are being supported by me at our house because some judge couldnt be bothered to think about balancing a budget.
Ok, I'm really trying to
Ok, I'm really trying to understand... I've been through court and CS more times than I can count, but all court issues were in the U.S., so there's bound to be some differences.
He makes $3200 with OT, and $2800 without. How much CS and alimony was he ordered to pay?
You are correct. Your income wasn't included in the CS calculation. However, your BF probably put together his budget including all bills...full rent, full utilities, etc, when, in fact, he is not responsible to pay all of that. So, if he used a budget including your expenses, he needs to allocate your income for your portion of expenses. Otherwise, he goes into court claiming he can't support his children because he's busy supporting you, kwim?
You should be paying half of the JOINT bills (rent, utilities, etc.) He needs to pay his own bills, like car payment and car insurance. If he can't afford it, he turns in the newer car for an older car and gets liability only insurance. You should NOT be making up the difference.
Personally, a man who cannot pay his CS and support himself is not a very attractive man to me.
So... my earlier question got ignored... were you the "other woman" in this scenario? The son is only a year and a half old, but you've been with the BF for two years. Something about this just doesn't add up...
he didnt include all the
he didnt include all the bills and he also included rent from myself in the amount of half the bills! No I was not the other woman sorry musta gone on a rant upset we have been together a 1.5 son is almost 2. I am really uaed to him only being 1.5 yrs! Son was an oops though after they got back together for a few months.I did not skirt around anything frankly its has nothing to do with the situation at hand and im sick of the question just because I have a young skid. Sorry its just getting old being judged because bm couldnt be a responsible adult while she was figuring out her marriage. It shouldn't surprise me being that she expects everyone but her to support her kids.
OP, I'm curious. You're
OP, I'm curious. You're pregnant, right? If BF and you split tomorrow how much child support would you expect to get from BF. Would you expect to receive help from BF for child care? Being you make 2400 a month in self income, how would you continue to pay upwards of 1300 a month rent (900ish for a one bedroom?), your car payment, your car insurance and routine gas/upkeep, food for 2, your current ran up credit card debt, daycare so you could work, regular household bills such as phone, cooling/heating, clothing for you, baby clothing and all necessary baby supplies (crib, stroller, diapers blah blah)?
Currently BM has a job which
Currently BM has a job which pays more then mine I would expect myself to continue working and not quit my job to live off of someone elses income. I would also not be taking his kid away from him and moving them to a different town. would i expect help... Yes I would but I would not be putting the father in a position to not have a roof over his head. This woman has decided to take more than half of his income and his kids... I have never suggested that she not get help I am suggesting she work for her own schooling like I did and every other adult should have to. allow the father to be in the picture like he has been since day one and pay her cs aswell. Basically grow up and be a mother. My mother had me and went to school and supported herself with no cs no I think that its fair but I do think its fair to work pay your cs and ensure kids get to see their father as much as they have from the get go which has been 50/50. Her course offers an omline correspondance she is being a selfish gold digger and no I would not expect anywhere near that.Not to mention she is underemploying herself and not using the first post secondary course she took.
I didnt choose to hop on the first bf I had and push out 2 kids before I had an education. If you are willing to have children before you find a career that you "like" thats your problemand it certainly should not leave me supporting this entire household. She should be working in her first carreer choice and getting her other schooling online if thats what she want to do.I just finished my schooling and when I am done my provincial testing I will be in a position to support myswlf like a real parent. I can garuntee I wouldnt convince a court to send me back to school in order to make more money.
As for my pregnancy... my bf
As for my pregnancy... my bf would support me as he did with BM. Her son is almost 2 yrs now.