When should kids be able to decide their own religious beliefs?
SD15 has started to become very intrigued by my beliefs and wants to learn more about them. I am Wiccan and I rely heavily on energies my grandmother is an energist so I look to her a lot for enlightenment. My grandmother is ill right now. A group of us got together at my house to send positive healing energy her way. We light a candle for her and wrote down positive affirmations. SD15 asked if she could join us. DH said it was fine. We didn't ask her to chant or anything just to write down something nice and burn it.
BM came pounding on our door the next day to curse me out. I apologized to her because I didn't know it was that big of a thing to her. DH said I didn't do anything wrong and that SD is at the age where she can decided to either be catholic like her mother or to forge her own path and follow her spirit wherever it may lead her. My question to you is did I cross the line big time?
Also no matter what you believe in I would love for you to send a positive thought or prayer to my grandmother. She has just undergone surgery to remove a tumor. I called her this morning and she said she is sitting up in bed and her pain level is at a 3 so I'm feeling really good about that. But I love her and I want her to make a full recovery and never have to worry about this again so please just send your good thoughts.
- porcelian-doll's blog
- Log in or register to post comments
Comments
I think as soon as young
I think as soon as young minds begin to question and explore their own spirituality, they should be encouraged to openly do so. It is a beautiful time of self exploration and understanding, and it is likely the most major thing that will shape who they become as people. It is not offensive to any religion to explore, understand, and learn about other religions and practices. It will either strengthen your faith, or give you cause to question and explore your faith, and nothing is wrong with either. God is too big for a single name, and all paths lead to heaven.
Blessings to your Grandma.
furkids that was truly
furkids that was truly beautiful. Thank you.
Does your husband actively
Does your husband actively follow and engage in your religion?
Thank you StepAside I can
Thank you StepAside I can clearly see your point. I was actually thinking that too that she was just interested because of the shock value it could provide to her family and friends. I do understand BM's concerns.
I think BM was very wrong
I think BM was very wrong forr cursing you out. Your DH, the BF of her child, said i was ok. If she has a problem, she needs to hash it out with him.
Queenbeau exactly. I could
Queenbeau exactly. I could understand her anger but I felt it was displaced. I did however apologize to her and DH hashed it out with her as well. I'm just seeing how I would handle things once DD gets older I will let her have her own religious freedom. But BM and DH are SD's parents so that's up to them.
You are better than me
You are better than me because I wouldn't have apologized I would have called the cops on her ass. LOL
Good thought to your
Good thought to your Grandmother!!
I honestly am on the fence about this. No doubt BM was wrong to cuss you out. But I would be a little squidgy about my kid being at a Wiccan ceremony of this type. Ignorance on my part. Sure...I know hardly anything about Wiccan beliefs and such. (just from movies)
I would tread very carefully on this...but if your DH is ok with it...then BM does not have much say.
Idk if you can do that? If
Idk if you can do that? If the father isn't a catholic, does that mean BM solely gets to choose which religion SD will have to 'believe in' or be exposed to until she is an adult?
In our state, family court
In our state, family court won't touch this after the divorce is final. This is the only place they recommend parallel parenting. Mediation can try to solve it, but nobody can make either parent do either thing.
Possibly the case in our state because most children are just born out of wedlock, not COD, so they don't expect the parents decided anything together.
So now courts are to decide
So now courts are to decide what religion a child is to be brought up in? I seriously doubt a court will take this argument on.
beaccountable thank you. I
beaccountable thank you. I was allowed to attend a non-denominational church with one of my best friends from time to time growing up so I know exactly where your coming from. My parents never force feed me religion they let me decide for myself and experience different things. I think that made me a better person also.
Sorry, but you were wrong on
Sorry, but you were wrong on this one. As a catholic, SD17 broke a commandment and I would be flipping out on you and seeing my lawyer. "Thou Shall not honor false gods before me".
I am usually anti-BM, but as a catholic, this one was appropriate for BM to be upset. I don't think you asked her to do much that was inappropriate, it was the exposure that I disagree with.
You can have your beliefs, but you don't expose them to your SK's.
Religion generally follows the mother, but it depends on the family. My vows when I got married in the church was to raise my son Catholic. If they were married in the church, this is something that BM and DH promised to do.
Again, another opinion that
Again, another opinion that only BM can choose which religions the child is exposed to.
Does the father have no right to say it's ok?
Thank God BM & DH & I all have the same beliefs... even though BM doesn't behave like she does...
If you are raised catholic
If you are raised catholic and change your views, that is fine. That is your decision. Not really sure what you are asking here. Everyone is able to have their own beliefs.
However, to take your question a bit further, if you marry in the church, you promise to raise your children catholic and that is a scared promise. Most young adults leave the church for a while, but marriage and children usually bring them back. I am not a great catholic, but I raised my son catholic and it was a promise I took very personally and if a stepmom and thankfully, I don't have one since my son's father is deceased, I would have had a flip out on this one.
I do believe in science and I believe in God.
The video below was done recently and provides good discussion on both theories.
http://www.livescience.com/39228-science-news-webcasts.html
So how about if Bm and Dh
So how about if Bm and Dh were never married. Dh is Catholic and I am Catholic. We got married in the church and had to agree to raise our children Catholic(we had none). What should Ss be raised?
I don't agree that Bms get to decide.
I am not completely sure on
I am not completely sure on this, but I don't think your SS is recognized by the church since he was not married to the mother so there is no promise to raise him catholic.
Again in the catholic church, I was always told that religion followed the mother so it would not be your or DH decision anyway unless it was in a CO otherwise.
I am just going off of years and years of catechism.
Nothing necessarily "happens"
Nothing necessarily "happens" to them. They would be welcome back into the church at any time.
One thing about Catholicism though, and I ran into this when my bios were being baptized is this. When choosing godparents for your child(ren), their job/commitment is to help your child through their spiritual journey. Typically people pick two and from what I understand this rule can vary slightly from parish to parish but they ask that one of the godparents be a practicing Catholic. The other can be of another religion but they must be active in that religion. Now, where it gets interesting is, if they were baptized Catholic and are not actively practicing Catholicism they cannot be a godparent. The thought behind this is that the godparent's job is to help the child on their "catholic" journey and would someone who left the church be able to properly do that?
I don't know if that really answered your question, but it's the only real "consequence" that I could think of.
I did this, My son's
I did this, My son's godparents, one is Atheist and one is devout catholic, father was a deacon. I wanted him to have two people in his lives that did not have children of their own. My discussions with his Godmother, were that I know she is atheist and she can talk to him about it, but, respect that he is Catholic. She was raised Catholic and understood. Now BS is 19 and they have a great friendship. His Godfather he sees rarely because we moved, but, he was a good Godfather all those years.
I do not feel that Godparents have to have a spiritual journey with their god children, but just a mentor relationship, whatever that looks like for them. For BS, that was visits, dinners, and sometimes going to Mass with them.
For me, I knew my husband would die and wanted my son to have as many positive influences in his life outside of immediate and extended family.
Jsmom, there's this little
Jsmom, there's this little thing in the United States called "separation of church and state". Just because you or the BM might happen to be Catholic and choose to adhere to that religions declaration of "honor no false gods" it is not a law and no one can be forced to follow it. It is a commandment of your religion, and despite your personal beliefs, your religion is not more important, more "true", or more worthy than any other. The commandments of your religion are also not law, which is why I can eat pork or wear fabrics of mixed fibers, each outlawed by Jewish and Christian faiths respectively. One parent has no legal right to demand what religions the child will or will not be exposed to.
And why would you want to? Unless you fear that some soul searching and questioning might lead your child to find more fulfillment on another path.
After they make their last
After they make their last sacrament, they can make their own decisions, but as I said before that was a promise I made when I married a catholic in the catholic church. No problem with Church and State, I just think exposing the child to "Wiccan" practices was inappropriate.
I can surely dictate what my son, will or will not be exposed to until they move out of my home. This is what courts are for.
Not in your son's fathers
Not in your son's fathers home though (if he were living)
His father would make those decisions. In this case, father said it was ok.
BM's fight is with the father. No court is going to tell BM she has sole decision making over religion & can decide what is done at the father's house. But a discussion with the father may have solved this situation.
It can be done in mediation.
It can be done in mediation. I have seen it done in Jewish households. Non-jew married to a Jew and in the divorce papers had to agree to continue to raise the children Jewish.
As for me, it was important that my husband be catholic when I married, so this was not a question. Now, I am married to a nice Jewish boy who happens to consider himself atheist. We choose not to discuss religion. I would not have married him if we were to have had children.
You are correct, BM's fight is with the dad and he is wrong for allowing it. She is too young to be exposed to that. But, the SM, should know when she is possibly overstepping. She knew BM may have a problem with that. She is not new to this.
We have slammed SM's on this site, for taking a SD bra shopping and having the talk and called it over stepping and we are going to let this one go? Seriously?
I think this one is let go
I think this one is let go because I think bra shopping is a mom thing (because my husband would die if he had to do it) but religion is a FAMILY thing.
The father has a choice in this too. Mediation can solve these problems yes, if the father agrees. If not, there are no laws making him relinquish his rights to the child's religious education. So the best thing to do is talk to the father in an agreeable manner, with or without mediation & get him to agree.
But running over to the house to curse out SM over something the biodad allowed? ignorance all around. That's like going to the school cursing them for feeding the kid school lunch when the biodad told them to.
I don't like the word overstep. & I don't think you can overstep on religion if the parent of the home says it's ok.
You give up some rights over your child reering when you get a divorce or don't marry the other parent. People are always ok with all the things that children miss out on after divorce, but never ok to face the fact that both BM's & BD's miss out on a lot too. This is one of those things. Be mad? Yes. Show up yelling? No. I'd actually have sent her ass to jail for that one. But I'm not as nice as OP. Because what OP did? Not illegal. What BM did? Showing up tresspassing cursing? Illegal.
JMO though.
OP never stated that the BD
OP never stated that the BD agreed to raise the child catholic. She just said BM is catholic - which made me assume BD is not.
"Sorry, but you were wrong on
"Sorry, but you were wrong on this one. As a catholic, SD17 broke a commandment and I would be flipping out on you and seeing my lawyer. "Thou Shall not honor false gods before me". "
I was born and raised catholic and went to a private catholic school. In 8th grade we took a trip to DC with our priest and saw all the cathedrals and even Buddhist Temple and Muslim Masque and a few other places where we learned about other peoples religion and culture which we were already learning about in religion class. There was nothing wrong with what she did. its not like her SD bowed down and started praising a golden calf or anything like that. she experienced s new religion and i think that is good for everyone to experience in ones life time. She is not forcing her SD to do anything, and BF gave permission.
In a country with a state religion, freedom of religion is generally considered to mean that the government permits religious practices of other sects besides the state religion, and does not persecute believers in other faiths. I don't see how a judge could have a say in this unless BM and BF had agreed upon and put it in a court order previous to this incident.
How exactly am I not showing
How exactly am I not showing compassion? I think BM has a right to be upset in this situation. Normally we slam BM's on here and for once she was right to get upset. I did not agree with her yelling at the SM, it should have gone to the Dad.
In my religion, Baha'i,
In my religion, Baha'i, people cannot become Baha'i until they are at least 15, even if raised following Baha'i practices. This is because one of the tenets of my faith is "independent investigation of truth."
At the time this "law" was declared, 15 was the age of majority.
My personal value is that blind faith is selling ourselves, and God, short. I believe that if we are to know God, we must use our reason. So I would see questioning or exploration as good.
But I know many do not agree with my standpoint, and if I am not the parent, I don't decide. I don't mind being told by the parent what they prefer, but scolded or cussed-out? That's schoolyard behaviour - and not acceptable there either.
prayers for your grandmother.
prayers for your grandmother.
No s**t fightincrazytrain. I
No s**t fightincrazytrain. I completely agree with you.
Here is where I think you
Here is where I think you were wrong and if I were BM I would have flipped my lid as well. It is totally understandable that people have different beliefs. Some believe in God, others do not. Some believe good grades in school are important, others do not. Some believe that eating meat is bad thing, others do not.
Honestly, it's your DH that was wrong in my eyes and HE is the one who should have gotten the ass chewing by BM. You did ask your DH if it was OK if SD participate. HE should have in turn ran it by BM ESPECIALLY knowing that BMs religion differs greatly from yours. I think it's no different than the BMs that go and cut 5 inches of the skids hair, or the BMs who go and get the skids ears pierced, or a tattoo or whatever without at least running it by the other parent.
I guess this hits home with me because BM2 belongs to (what I feel is) a cult church, I think they are a bunch of whack jobs and their beliefs are way off in left field, but whatever.. to each their own, but I would be BEYOND FURIOUS if I ever found out that she or SS14 was discussing/pushing/educating MY son with their beliefs without my explicit knowledge. BEYOND FURIOUS
Hope you grandmother makes a speedy recovery!
The bm would have gone
The bm would have gone apeshit if you took her to a Baptist service. Dad's house, dad's rules. One prayer circle does not a Wiccan make.
Please impress upon SD to not tell her friends that SM let me do witchcraft. That may get you a visit to the school counselor and/or cps.
When SS was in 9th grade he told friends at school about my Wiccan beliefs. I had my own space to practice and did not involve them. Answered questions when asked, but otherwise did not involve the skids. The public school district at one time tried to ban all non Christian symbols including the star of David.
I get called in to the school counselor's office to account for my Satanic beliefs. Actual words. She's a newly born again Jesus freak. Could not wrap her head around Satanism and Wicca being 2 distinct belief systems and that both are protected by the Constitution. She told me I needed to get SS to church, otherwise CPS would be investigating. I complained to the superintendent. That stopped cps from being contacted.
Then the counselor started pulling Ss out of class to talk to him about the bible. At first he thought it was funny, then it became 3 and 4 times a week and he was getting flack from his teachers about being pulled out so much. I found this out weeks later. Dh and I both go to superintendent to get her to stop. It took threats of litigation to get the school to stop her. It was a mess.
So be careful. Bright blessings to your grandmother.
Yep, it was public school.
Yep, it was public school. Caught me by surprise too
The counselor was fired later. Takes money to litigate.
I only read through some of
I only read through some of the responses but in a few of them I saw fingers pointed towards porcelain.
Her post said "DH said it was fine."
She checked with the bio-dad and verified he was okay with SD15's participation.
Not sure why the courts should be involved or why the BM yelled at the OP. Dad gave his permission and the last time I checked, he was allowed to do this.
Porcelain you did nothing wrong and your BM is a jerk for taking it out on you, instead of sitting her exH down and telling him she was not okay with it.
NONONO BD's have no say so
NONONO
BD's have no say so over what a child does. ONLY BM's.
Queen.....so very true.
Queen.....so very true. Sadly.....so very, very true.
I love how the SM is getting the blame for this too.
DH made the decision to let his kid be included, he could have said no. But he didn't but the SM is taking the heat???
And where in the hell was her DH when the BM was yelling at her about this?? Backing her up?? Stepping in between them and telling the BM...Hey...I said it was okay, you have a problem? Then let's discuss it.
Instead her DH let Porcelain take the blame.
Obviously, the proper
Obviously, the proper protocol is to stop the WHOLE ceremony & have DH call BM & ask permission to parent his child.
Not to do so is overstepping.
In fact, don't even have the ceremony when SD is there. Put your life on pause, because not to do so is overstepping.
What was I thinking....this
What was I thinking....this is probably why H took a job in another state and moved away. I NEVER put the skid and H first in my life and thoughts.
It's all my fault.
Thank you Queen....I can see more clearly now. Everyone counts except the SM.
Snerk....snort...I nearly managed that all with a straight face.
YOU'RE GOOD I was about to
I was about to start typing an apology like "itt was all sarcasm" because reading the beginning of that sounded SO serious. LOL!
Oh no....I would have felt
}:) Oh no....I would have felt horrible if you thought I was mad. I was playing along with your sarcasm.
Yay Team Sarcasm!!
This is the same BM who
This is the same BM who followed you around a supermarket screaming that you were a vampire and encouraged SD to harrass you too, right? And she's upset that you allowed your SD to observe something that had a positive note to it? That is pretty ironic. AND your SD asked to observe - she is 15, not 4. BM is making this out to be a big deal because she is scared that her daughter is starting to "like" you and may see her mother as the POS she is because *oh crap* you MIGHT end up with something in common. Pfft - if your DH supports you, he needs to tell BM to take a hike.
Wow. I feel for you. BM
Wow. I feel for you. BM is....I have no idea. Something conservative, southern, evangelical, and /or fundamentalist. She belongs to a singles group but they don't date, they witness for Christ. Ha.
DH hates it, of course, because it's so far out there...way beyond mainstream Christianity. Does he rip into it in front of the kids? No way.
He doesn't have to.
BM is putting the nail in the coffin of her belief system all by herself. She forces the kids to go to her church whether they want to or not and tells them we are hellbound and evil. Meanwhile, they see how we really live. They sometimes even ask questions. And here's the shocker: we really do have rules they are expected to live by and we behave ethically and humanely towards each other. GASP! They are in some real danger with us.
The only reason DH was able to get the "equal time regarding religion" clause in the decree was because he called this crazy lady out: what is your faith REALLY worth if it must be forced?