I hAvE cHaNgEd
I typed the title stupid, because H is being stupid. So it seemed fitting.
Long story short, we've been to counseling twice. Both times have been painful, and followed with him being s d***head jacka$$ (pardon my french... I just don't know how else to describe this level of stupidity....) Last session he tried to break up with me OVER TEXT. I was on the phone with my mom about to go in the gym, and immeadiately burst into tears. So mama bear chewed him out and he suddenly "wanted to talk" and "wasn't actually breaking things off, just voicing his frustration." So I went there and we had a huge arguement... (Note: silver lining. I was pissed enough I ran a 6 minute mile to get some of the anger out)
Fast-foreword. He's still being dumb. Angry that I "haven't noticed how much he's changed." And apparently I'm choosing coworker over him??? (still trying to figure this out, since Saturday I surprised him at 7AM and took him shopping, then watched the stupid football game with him, then went to the gym with him for hours... Then Sunday I woke up early to get ready for church WITH HIM, then hung with him... And yesterday I brought lunch and ate with him... Then tried to come see him after the gym, but he told me not to bother... But whatever homie) I haven't even seen coworker in like 2 weeks due to differing schedules and him playing video games with some of my other coworkers. Honestly it's like living alone, while also not, because he owns the house.
But he says he has "broke the cycle of abuse" (at least he's acknowledging he was forking abusive). But I disagree. Is he improving? He!! yes. But has he finished breaking that cycle. Not yet.
- He still threatens to end us or file when he doesn't get his way
- He tries to pull the "I can't change the rest of the way until you get home!"
- He's trying to play the victim... Because I have "made him wait TOO LONG." and "How can I do this to someone I supposedly love and want?" (sorry not sorry. How could he do all the s*** he did???)
- When I bring stuff up about his controlling behaviors, he gets angry and tries to change the subject
- Tries to justify some of his behaviors with "well if you were home..."
- Keeps trying to remind me of all the good stuff, and discounting the bad stuff...
- Has tried to use our VERY FEW counseling sessions as a reason I should be home NOW
- "Found God" and yet isn't following all the stuff the religion teaches... I mean I'm not perfect either, but he's doing some BIG no-nos.
- I went to get a smoothie today, it's near the lawyer we used for child custody... So he thought I was meeting with a lawyer and flipped out... (life 360... therapist said it was a good idea... BUT... idk anymore...)
- Wants constant attention, makes me feel like crap if he doen'st get it. OR he completely withdraws, then tells me he "Doesn't feel wanted"
- He flipped out at me on Sunday, because I was IN MY ROOM with the DOOR CLOSED without a bra... And somehow, chilling alone, that was innapropriate and why was my bra off at 3:30 in the afternoon because I'm a "f***ing adult"
- Acts like I don't do anything for the relationship, I'm just hurting it... Somehow... He doens't have specificis... Just that I am... And I'm apparently picking everyone else over him...
- Doens't like me being independent... Is mad that I have friends and tlak to more than just him... Mostly... For some reason one of the friends (who is male) is a-okay... but no one else is???
- He doens't understand why I'm afraid and hurt. And while I'm willing to WORK past it, it's not going to be instant gratification on his part
- He's pissed I left more than anything... Like I did an injustice... Even though he pushed me there.
- He's not worried about the damage... Says we can fix all that when I get back... But I wanna see the changes now.
- If I bring up the fact I see these things, then I "don't see how much he has changed!!!" And I should magically trust he's changed for good... Also if he apologizes... Then he thinks I should just forget... Like the bra thing... He apologized after I stood up for myself and told him that was wildly innapropriate... So then he thought I should just be okay?
- He has non stop pressure for me to be home NOW. Like not a single day goes by where he's not trying some angle for immeadiate gratification... Which is STRESSFUL.
So anyways. I contacted the counselor... And got us a session tonight (someone cancelled after she told me no openings this week, next week I'm out of town so he's supposed to go solo) cuz we clearly could use another... And we'll see how it goes... According to him, it's session 3 and everything should be magic. In my opinion, it's simply not magic. It's not that easy. it's going to take time. I believe he can change, I've seen glimmers of genuine humility and sorrow and a big heart. But those have to become more than glimmers if we are going to repair us. I do believe deep down he KNOWS he f***ed up. But he's filled with shame, so he thinks me coming back will mask his shame and guilt. But I don't think it will. He has to solve some of his own turmoil first.
I truly hope we can make it work. I do miss him, miss the girls, and miss his dog Tubz... But I can't fix it unless he puts in the effort. I'm not a forking magician.
As he so reminds me. 71 days (minus 3) since we were seperated.
Any advice or opinions are welcome
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It sounds to me like your
It sounds to me like your partner is a chocolate teapot. Seems nice but it's not capable of fulfilling its function. It doesn't seem like hes capable of fulfilling what you need from him. And you sound like a chocoholic, desperately throwing on more layers to try to make it work.
I've no idea why chocolate is the imagery my brain came up with, maybe I'm hungry. But seriously, read your post and ask yourself of that was your friend or daughter, what would you say to them?
That's an interesting way to
That's an interesting way to look at it. I didn't think of it that way.
I'd probably tell them to flee. That it's a lot of crap.
Honestly one of the hardest things... I've been raising the girls for almost 3 years without much help (he was too busy with other crap and in school). So they've really become my girls... The biggest reason I want him to change (besides the fact I do love him) is I want to keep my girls. I really really want to keep my girls. So it's hard. And I want to give him the chance to change.
That is the exact way to look
That is the exact way to look at it. Would you want anyone you care about in a relationship like this?
You were raising his girls while he was busy with other "crap" meaning BUSY CHEATING!!!!!! Eff him!!!!
I get that you will miss the girls. That is the hardest part and what I figured you were holding onto. The longer you hold onto it the harder it will get and he won't change.
I'm sure after the divorce though he will be more than willing to let you spend time with the girls and watch them while he goes looking for his next victim.....
Lol so you have boiled his
Lol so you have boiled his affairs down to "other crap", I mean come on he has treated you as a doormat this whole time.
That's my nice way of
That's my nice way of speaking about it... Normally I use while he was bieng a f*** boy or a man wh0re. I have a colorful array of language. Don't worry. It's not just "other crap"
I just finished catching up
I just finished catching up on your blogs because I wondered how you were doing and then this blog appeared.
Honestly, I'm surprised you are still trying at this point! You deserve so much better and he knows it. He is putting in such minimal effort and still being a manipulative POS! Don't fall for it!!!!
I didn't see any signs of improvement in this blog!
Sorry, not trying to be a Debbie Downer but this man doesn't deserve you!
You're not a debbie downer
You're not a debbie downer Simpleton!!! You're pretty great imho![Smile](https://prod-cdn-1.ststatic.com/sites/all/modules/contrib/smiley/packs/kolobok/smile.gif)
He's shown some signs, and sometimes it'll be several days of positive. Then it's like something in his brain explodes and we have some really s** days filled with the stuff above.
Thanks :) I agree in a lot of aspects. I don't see myself as "better" by any means. But he sure has put me through a LOT of s***. So I think I deserve better. Even he said it. So I hit him with the "well if you think I deserve better... And you want to be there. Then be better." If he can be better, I can see a happy future, but I REFUSE to go back until I know that he's actually changed and put in the work. Not some half a$$ed effort.
Well thanks!
Well thanks!
I've been through several long term emotionally abusive/manipulative relationships and in my experience men like this do not change. He is doing all of this for show stuff. "see I went to counseling, see how much I've changed, why aren't you back yet" because the moment you come back he will quit putting in the effort and honestly he hasn't put in that much effort.
I am saying you are better by all means. He knows it and that is what he is afraid of. Losing someone he never deserved to begin with b/c he can't fool you any longer.
If he is only adding stress and debt to your life why would you stay?
What "explodes in his brain"
What "explodes in his brain" is his true self coming out with a blast because he just can't hold it anymore. He is getting so rageful because his B.S. is no longer easily working on you.
Being away from him (different living space) has cleared your head, as often happens when you physically remove yourself from them. These types tend to "wear you down" (and keep you there). (Also why he is pushing so hard for you to hurry and come back and then "it will all be ok".)
As you are spending more time with him, it sounds like he is starting to wear you down again. That's why your bullet list sounds so good to you, but literally nobody else on steptalk.
Please tread very careful.
The therapist asked him about
The therapist asked him about that last night as well. He said "because he knows he's changed and is ready." She flat out told him that while she can see he's changed in some aspects, he's still controlling, which is an exhausting way to live and isn't going to help ANY relationship, whether we work out or not. He's going solo next week.
My bullet lsit doesn't sound good to me. Those are reasons I'm still gone. part of the bullet list's point was I wanted to list things out and REMIND myself of all the s***. I've always been quick to forgive, but I can't with this. I won't be walked all over again. Period.
Also it's part of why I posted on here. Because I know all you lovely ladies will remind me too :)
Sadly
This man is abusive and frankly I don't see anything real that's changed in 71 days and 3 counseling sessions.
You need to get out. Right now you are modeling an abusive relationship to the girls. That can't be what you want. It's certainly not what you deserve!
He has been abusive. You're
He has been abusive. You're absolutely right.
And that's why I'm not back. My mom has suggested that if/when I do throw in the towel, I talk to them to let them know I love them and I'm doing this for them too. idk what I would say tbh. Because I won't speak poorly about their dad to them, but it's not an awful idea.
Um....
"Is he improving? He!! yes."
Really? NONE of that is an improvement. Seems like the same old stuff.
"I've seen glimmers of genuine humility and sorrow and a big heart."
You've seem some of the show he can put on which is why you got sucked into the drama in the first place. It's NOT genuine if that bulleted list are the asinine things he's still saying and doing.
I didn't list the improvement
I didn't list the improvement. The list was the reasons I'm away.
Improvement includes:
I know it can all be a show. That's also why he has to not only clean up his act, but stay consistent. Because if he can't clean it and then keep it, it's not real. I won't go back unless I'm sure it's actually genuine.
I do think that his solo counseling session is going to be a big deal though.
I hope that the session
I hope that the session tonight helps you. If you havent gone yet, it might be a good idea to print out a copy of this list to discuss.
His transition is not going to be quick or easy, he is not going to change over the course of a couple of months despite what he wants to imagine. I might be tempted to start looking at renting my own place if I were you or at least signing a contract with your coworker to make things a bit more formal and to show your husband that you intend to stay put for at least 6-12 months and he needs to work on himself in that time if he is to have any chance of you moving back in after that.
At the moment, from what you have writen, I do not see a man who is going to fundamentally change. When you say that he is changing in small ways I just think that it is him doing the old honeymoon routine after a bad patch to real you in again until he cannot contain himself any longer and has another abusive/posessive outburst. Have you looked up the typical cycle that abusers go through with partners? If you have not seen it, google it, it may help you to spot the patterns.
I know that you love these girls, and that you do not want to abandon them. Sometimes though we have to move on in life, even from the good things. You have given them years of your time and love and attention. You have had a positive impact on thier lives and that is a great thing. But staying in the relationship is probably not healthy for you and if you are not healthy you need to put your life jacket on first before you can help anyone else. If you are able to maintain some sort of relationship with them (without having your generosity being taken advantage of or your husband constantly harassing you) then that would be great. However you could also wait until they are adults and then reach out to them to try to reconnect with them without their father involved. Hopefully they will remember your good influence and want to rebuild a relationship. If not, you know that you did your best for them and that is all anyone could have asked for. I have always found it tough when breaking up with a partner that you loose the close connection with thier family and friends, I can only imagine that loosing the connection with children that you helped raise would be a whole other level of grief to have to go through. Be easy on yourself.
I watched the video on the life360 website...it is creepy...I would delete that app right away and check there are not any other location tracking things on your phone (some abusers install them without their partners knowing). I read a story the other day about a woman whoes (now ex-) partner had put software on her phone that allowed him to listen in and even watch her through the camera on her phone as well as record what she was doing on the phone...apparently it is relatively cheap for abusers to buy this type of software. It is scary.
Thank you BethAnne. So an
Thank you BethAnne. So an update (it took so long to respond because I got off work and rushed back to take care of dogs before meeting him at therapy, I then went and helped a friend decorate for Christmas. lol)
Notes from therapy.
I have googled that
I also have a document of signs an abuser is or is not changing, cycles to watch out for, and all of that. And I've read quite a few articles... I research stuff when I'm nervous or unsure (hence why by family court I knew the system and suggested a few extra things. lol)
The bottom paragraph. My location is off, and I'm in the tech department, so I did just go through my phone and look for any suspicious apps (thanks for your suggestion). It's apple, so it's hard to get anything "sneaky" on there. But I'll see about having someone else run through it just to be on the safe side.![Smile](https://prod-cdn-1.ststatic.com/sites/all/modules/contrib/smiley/packs/kolobok/smile.gif)
Frankly, my advice is to walk
Frankly, my advice is to walk away. I'm not seeing the changes from what you wrote. I'm seeing him continuing to be a selfish jerk. I think you're just prolonging the inevitable. I hope for your sake I'm wrong.
There are times
There are times when a "geographical cure" is the solution. It sounds like this man is almost an addiction that you can not shake and the only thing that will get you free of it is to get away from him so that your head will clear. Can you take some time from work if you combiine vacation and personal time? Do you have any relatives or good friends away from the area that you can stay with? After that you may decide that actually moving a distance away would be a healthy thing to do so that you can make a clean break from him. Because it does not sound like he will ever leave you alone if you are anywhere near him and he will do everything possible to stay relevant to you after you cut him loose. Getting physical distance from him may be the best way to end the connection and get on with your life.
But riight now he is just tormenting you. And I think you are tormenting yourself trying to make the relationship work. You know in your heart that he is too damaged to actually be your life partner. Time to be your own best friend and call time of death on this so you can start to heal. We all know that it is hard and are pulling for you!
Road trip time!!
Road trip time!!
Yesterday when I read Anikis post about the lady wanting to sell her motel I had the idea of a step parent retreat, somewhere to get away from it all and relax in an environment with others that get it. Though we might need a whole chain of them all over the country!
I would love to fill up that
I would love to fill up that motel with STalkers! Too bad I can't buy it and make it a step parent retreat.
Thankfully I leave for a
Thankfully I leave for a business trip early Sunday morning several states over! So I'll be out of town all of next week! I dunno if I'll for sure move away, BUT it will give us space, and I think space and distance is good.
I've thought a lot about
I've thought a lot about whether or not I could stay with DH if he cheated on me. I know for him it's a total deal breaker, and honestly, I'm not capable of cheating on him. But would I stay? I don't know. It's not a total deal breaker, but if I did stay, it would have to be because a) the cheating was a stupid mistake that happened one time, and b) he feels horrible about himself for doing it and that shows.
I don't see that with your H. He seems like he doesn't feel bad at all really, he's just putting on a show to get you to come home and then he will go back to baseline. Will he cheat again? I don't know. But will he take you for granted again and treat you poorly? Almost certainly, YES.
Why do you want this to work, is it not wanting to fail? Missing the girls? I hear you miss the dog, but not to be flippant, there are lots of lovable pooches at the shelter, waiting for someone just like you. What keeps you hanging in there?
Sooooo... I don't know about
Sooooo... I don't know about the future for sure. I do believe people have the potential to change, when and if they put in real effort and show genuine consistency (holding it for a couple of days or even a week or so is short term.... We need long term.)
I do miss the girls, they've been good kids, I'm grateful I'm still getting to see them 1-2 times a week :) I miss Chubby pupper, but I did bring Goofball and baby puppers with me. (Chubby Pupper is his, other two are mine) I definitely don't need a third on my own! They're both high energy shepherd mixes! And the little one has an attitude that I'm trying to train out of her (goofball is the gem I taught him to be, minus his anxiety that I'm working on still)
Why I'm hanging in, I miss my girls. I know he has good in there. I want to give him one last ditch effort shot at change. If he can do it awesome. If not, at least I walk away knowing I have him every shot I could.
PA, what do you need? Is it a
PA, what do you need? Is it a place to live, because I got spare rooms. A job? DH is an IT manager and could find you something really quickly. A dude who's DTF? That can be arranged.
Seriously. Your "husband" was looking at ENGAGEMENT RINGS with another woman. He was ready to replace you before even telling you that he was done. He was going to remove you and give the girls a new "mom" whether you wanted that or not.
What you want doesn't take rocket science to give, but he's too much of an <insert every expletive here> to even consider it.
Tough truth time:
It's not you that he wants. He just wants *someone* to literally and figuratively suck his d*ck and take care of his responsibilities. If it isn't you, it would be someone else.
And I guaran-fracking-tee you that the ONLY reason he can't find a new sugar momma now is because he doesn't have time to sleep around and hook another one. If you go back, he'll go right back to cheating until he finds a new piece who's more subservient with a better paycheck.
I love you, girl. You are one of very, very few members that I talk to privately and that knows my real name. I'm telling you like I'd tell my sister or my best friend: this dude doesn't give two sh*ts about you or "us". You are a sexy paycheck with a soft spot for his kids that is willing to put up with his horsesh*t because he has beaten the life out of you.
YOU. ARE. BETTER. THAN. THIS.
Repeat that over and over again. And I get it! I thought my XH was just was a husband was until my DH showed me that men CAN be equal adults and SHOULD be equal adults in a relationship.
It's not hard to be a good spouse. You know that because you have been a good spouse. There are trying times, but not this. This is chaos. This is bullsh*t to the max. The only thing you're missing from being the poster child for abused women is a black eye. Your relationship SUCKS and won't improve. It. Just. Won't.
So stop this. Show the girls that a strong woman knows when she is being played and she bounces. Show yourself that you deserve SO MUCH MORE than this douche-canoe. He's a screaming, crying, abusive man child whose only glimmers of change that are coming through are his realization that he's about to lose AND LOSING THE GAME - NOT LOSING YOU - MAKES HIM UPSET.
You are coming up on a FULL YEAR since you told him he needed to change, and he hasn't done anything more than surface level crap. It's easy to say that you're an abuser but it's a whole other to own it, and he hasn't done one lick of that.
If you go back, you're showing the girls EXACTLY how they should expect to be treated. If you go back, you'll end up out on your arse when he finds his next victim (and if he gets more than a night free anytime soon, he'll hook a desperate one), and I promise you that it will happen in weeks to months. If you go back, you throw away EVERY dream you have.
He. Doesn't. Care. About. You.
He. Isn't. Capable. Of. Caring. About. You.
You're. A. Doll. To. Him. That f**ks and cooks better than plastic.
Please, PLEASE get out of this. You have tried for a year. He hasn't. Put a bullet in this sh*t.
EXCELLENT post. PA, it's hard
EXCELLENT post. PA, it's hard, but this is 100% spot on truth.
Losing the game, not losing you is what is bothering him.
Lt Dad, I want to high five
Lt Dad, I want to high five you and hug you and give you chocolates and treat you to a mani/pedi because I am seriously luving the hell out of you right now.
PA, read that post over and over and over. Put a copy on the refrigerator, the bathroom mirror, the dashboard of your car, on your work desk, in your gym bag... You are a beautiful soul who deserves so much more than the crumbs you're getting. xoxoxo
Damn if you didn't nail that
Damn if you didn't nail that like a railroad spike LD!!
PA let that loser go. He must talk one hella game but the game is over. He's a minor player and you're meant for bigger and better. Not this lowlife.
STANDING OVATION!
STANDING OVATION!
Standing up
Standing up and cheering over here! Lt. Dad expressed it perfectly. He is losing the game. You are making the decision to end the relationship and that is breaking his rules. That is why he wants you back. Once you are there, he will have won again and you will be destroyed as your "punishment" for having dared to f&ck with him. Read her post until you have committed every word to memory.
Unvarnished truth.. and it's
Unvarnished truth.. and it's truth.
Lt_dad. When you messaged
Lt_dad. When you messaged me saying you were harsh I was expecting something terrible.
But honestly you're not wrong. I can genuinely say I've thought about that with the girls as well. And I have decided I will NOT go back so long as the changes do not feel genuine. Which means not until i see anything solid and longer term.
I'm hoping the therapist makes progress with him next week, but I know I've tried for a long time. I moved out just shy of three months. And I'm going to wait a bit longer to see changes, but I will not be going back until I not only see changes, but I see consistency of those changes.![Smile](https://prod-cdn-1.ststatic.com/sites/all/modules/contrib/smiley/packs/kolobok/smile.gif)
Thanks for being so amazing Lt_dad. Also maybe I will do what Aniki suggested and get a print out of this for my mirror. Can't hurt. I did tell you part of why I posted this was to remind me of all the crap, and get reminders from you all. Keeps me grounded and from going back prematurely![Smile](https://prod-cdn-1.ststatic.com/sites/all/modules/contrib/smiley/packs/kolobok/smile.gif)
Next truth:
Next truth:
STOP TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHEN YOU WILL GO BACK!
Right now, you need to figure out how you will live alone. How you will cut ties. How you will get divorced and move forward.
HE needs to figure out if he wants you back, and HE needs to work, independent of a guarantee if you'll be back, on HIMSELF to make him a good partner to ANYONE.
None of the changes he has made even barely makes him a functional adult.
Having to spend more time with his kids? HE'S THEIR F**KING FATHER!
Having to pay his part of rent? HE'S A F**KING ADULT AND ADULTS NEED A PLACE TO LIVE AND PAY FOR IT!
Prayer?! F**king PRAYER?! That's not even a necessity! AND HE CAN'T EVEN FOLLOW THE TENETS OF THE RELIGION HE CHOSE!
He's. Not. Meeting. Minimum. Requirements. To. Be. An. Adult. MUCH LESS A SPOUSE.
You want a husband. He isn't one. He has to learn how to be an adult, THEN a father, and THEN a boyfriend. That is sh*t that takes people 18-25 YEARS to figure it out.
Are you seriously going to wait 18-25 YEARS for him?
I want you to tell me, in this public forum, what makes this dipsh*t worth it? Does he have a magic c*ck? He doesn't have money. He is a sh*t father. He can't be faithful to you or his religion. He has no prospects to make more money. He holds you back from the things you want to do. He's controlling. I can't find a good quality in him, and I can even find good qualities in the BM in my life!
Every f*cking time you give in to his bullsh*t wants and dates, all you're doing is eroding YOUR OWN STANDARDS. Not his. You're just making it easier for him. And he knows it, and he's exploiting it.
If you cut him off, and you get your own apartment, and you only talk to him at therapy, I f*cking PROMISE you that he'd stop coming and find a new GF lickety split. You cut him off, and he'll have someone new and not give one f*ck about you.
And I know this because THAT'S WHAT MY XH DID TO ME.
IT'S. NOT. ABOUT. YOU. IT'S ONLY FUN FOR HIM BECAUSE YOU PLAY HIS STUPID GAMES.
I love you. Gimmy loves you. Aniki loves you. We've never met you and we love you more than this arsehole. Know that. Feel that. Embrace that.
"Keeps me grounded and from
"Keeps me grounded and from going back prematurely."
Read that a few times, PA. Consciously/subconsciouly you are already planning to go back to him. Even after everything he's done to you. Past, present and guarantee future. In your current mindset, there is still a future....and THAT, right there, is what he is feasting upon right now.
He is ripping you apart like a hunter that just re-caught his easy prey.
STOP. Stop this abusive cycle. Stop trying to figure out how to fix him. Stop guessing when it will all magically change.
IT. WON'T.
HE and only HE can fix himself. BUT FIRST...he has to WANT to change. All the time you are entertaining his B.S. he will only change long enough to trap you again. And again...and again and again and again. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Get away from this abusive m'er f'er. Learn how to live, HEALTHILY, without him. Emotionally and mentally healthy on your own. If you were healthy - you wouldn't even entertain his absolute bullshi!.
Heal yourself. Love yourself. Respect yourself so that this NEVER happens again.
Also, ALL of what your good friend Lieutenant said. LISTEN TO HER. Listen to us. We are nothing if not PRO at calling out people on their bullship and knowing exactly what is going on. Your situation is no exception.
GIRL, RUN LIKE HELL AND GO FIX YOURSELF!!!
Some great advice you've been
Some great advice you've been given so I won't repeat it.
But wanted to give you some perspective from someone who has BTDT with too many bad relationships. I spent 4 years with a man that were up and down because of his indiscretions. He would do something awful I'd leave. He would beg and plead about how much he loved me. I finally ended it 6 weeks before our wedding. You know what he did? He married the girl he'd been cheating with 2 weeks later. And then STILL proceeded to call and cry and beg me to come back. I did not find out that he had married for several months as this was long before social media existed. The man stalked me and professed undying love for decades. And believe me I gave him NO encouragement.
My second big relationship was literally the "love of my life". I was obsessed with him. Again after much abuse I finally broke it off for good. Hardest thing I ever did in my life. But I had to do it for my survival. I had to fight my intense desire to just be with him under any circumstances.
You can do this.
He’s got you on the roller coaster
Ask your therapist about the roller coaster or cycle of abuse. He's crappy, you pull away, he plays nice nice for the five and a half minutes he's capable of it, you're on an upswing thinking maybe he's finally getting better, then he has a break where you're a slut for not wearing a bra in your bedroom, and the roller coaster is plunging to the ground again. Repeat ad nauseum. YOU have to get OFF the roller coaster. See the therapist without him to figure out your plan for not going back. You need a phone a friend who agrees to take your call anytime you start thinking you want to spend some time with him. Someone who knows the crap he's put you through and will remind you how awful your life is with him. Someone who will talk you out of talking to him. Your list of the ongoing crap while you've been separated for more than two months is something you should read every morning and every night to give you the strength to cut this a-hole out of your life permanently.
I’d say him cheating is only
I’d say him cheating is only one of the problems. What’s most mortifying is that he continues abusing you NOW.
You begging him to start treating you well is kind of degrading. He is the one who cheated yet he feels he is within his rights to continue be abusive and you continue fighting for his love and attention. I can’t wrap my mind around it.
You are still the one trying to please him, while it should be the other way around. You surprised him whth shopping spree? I’d surprise him with swift kick in the butt and divorce papers served.
Not only he didn’t feel bad or improved. He actually got worse. He is getting more and more abusive because he figured out that you’ll not leave him no matter how badly he behaves (you might not live there but you still fight for his love and attention so you are still there).
He figured out that he has full control over you so he continues mistreating you. It will never change or it will get worse. But it will never get better. He’ll never be a decent man. How many more years are you willing to live in a fantasy? It’s not real. See your own therapist. Not couple therapist. Get your own life together. You can’t fix him
I haven't read all the posts.
I haven't read all the posts...and I think you're making a big mistake enteraining his nonsense. And this comes from someone that you know is very pro on working through/saving a marriage. I don't even think the infidelity is the 'end of marriage' as some do here, but his abusive/controlling nature combined with that, most certainly is. And yeah, I see no changes honestly. Just more talk.
I want to ask some more about this though.... "I went to get a smoothie today, it's near the lawyer we used for child custody... So he thought I was meeting with a lawyer and flipped out... (life 360... therapist said it was a good idea... BUT... idk anymore...)"
Can you elaborate fully? Did you have this before? WHO recommended it first? Did therapist recommend it first and for WHAT purpose? I mean if she knows you are trying to stay apart until he does the work and she knows he's controlling, why on earth would she encourage this behavior with a horrible app like that? I never heard of it until now and so I googled it.....seems perfect for helicopter parents/control freak couples. Wow! Or did HE recommend it during your seperation and then the therapist agreed? I seriously doubt it was your idea-unless it was regarding the cheating? On THIS little bit alone it tells me a lot about your relationship and IF that therapist recommended it, you need a new therapist. Frightening to be honest!
Why are you giving him the ability to stalk you?
Why are you giving him the ability to stalk you? I had to google life 360 to completey understand this and I think it is a terrible idea. And how did he know you were in your room without a bra? How did that even come up in conversation? It is none of his business what you are wearing at any time. And he certainly doesn't need to know where you are at all times.
I am way older than you and the older I get the less patience I have with people who treat others poorly. Your Dh has never treated you well - the cheating is just another thing in a long list. Nothing you have told us gives any indication he is doing anything to make this situation work. He is still controlling you and wants everything to be on his terms.
This guy is never going to change. I was afraid he was worming his way back in your life when I saw some responses to other posts where you were speaking in the the present tense about him and the girls and how you handle things. End this relationship, figure out something for your dogs and join the Marines. It is what you have wanted for a long time - now is the time to do it.
So the initial thought for
So the initial thought for life 360. We got it right after Psycho got visitation again, initially SD(9 then) has a cell phone for emergencies. So MIL helped me set it up. We were worried she was going to bring them back to the old s***hole that was 200% non-safe for kids. It was for her safety. Shortly after H turned his location off on it. Part of my stipulation to stay was that he turn his location back on so he's no longer able to sneak around as he pleases.
As for the rest of the stuff. The therapist said it was a good idea after infidelity to earn back some trust. But she admitted last night that I should swap off my location as he's abusing it.
Ok, that makes sense
Ok, that makes sense. I say you leave yours off and his stays on!
PAI, he is NOT being stupid,
PAI, he is NOT being stupid, he's being toxic. He's being him. You know who he really is - you've seen his demon face - so you knox you can't expect him to change. All he's doing is trying to show you what he thinks you want him to be/do. Those glimmers of a new him that you see are like glitter - all for show and no substance. The minute he has you back all effort will fly out the window.
As I read your list, my stomach was tied in knots. Do you really think any of that was acceptable? He is making NO progress at all. None. He thinks that he can bully you into coming back. Please don't do it. Hold him to a year of impeccable behaviour before you will even BEGIN to think about it. Three months and so many things wrong later, he must be crazy to think you're coming home tomorrow.
Below is a list of signs you are in an emotionally abusive relationship (source: https://psychcentral.com/blog/21-warning-signs-of-an-emotionally-abusive...). Check it against your list and see how many matches you have...
I went down a list of 64 WITH
I went down a list of 64 WITH him. He cried... But I also brought some of those up in therapy last night. She has the solo session with him next week. And i'll be out of town getting plenty of space (several states away) while he does that.
He is waving about 48 red
He is waving about 48 red flags right in your face, 24/7, and you're trying to explain them away.
All of what lieutenant said. ALL. OF. IT. You will find someone who will treat you with love, care, respect, tenderness, compassion. This very abusive...thing...is not it.
Please please listen to all of the lovely ladies above and remove him from your life.
PAI, I thought about you last
PAI, I thought about you last night - do you have your own therapist? I'm shocked that someone suggested you guys use Life360 - for an already controlling guy, this is an insane suggestion.
My advice would be to get your own therapist, tell your H you want a 6 month separation with NO CONTACT, and see what shakes out for you and for him. You are slowing slipping right back down the rabbit hole with him, and this post proves it.
I know you love those girls, but you may have to let them go. Chances are good at some point in the future, he's going to leave you and cut you off from them anyway. Make the choice yourself to let go and move on for a period of time and see what you want to do after that.
PA, I had horrible insomnia
PA, I had horrible insomnia last night so I spent a LOT of time thinking about you and your situation. I came back here and reread all of the comments, including your list of the "areas of improvement".
IT'S NOT ENOUGH.
Lt Dad is right. You ARE better than this! And he’s had a year. A YEAR. It’s too little; too late. If you were dating, you would have dropped him like a hot rock. And, speaking of rocks… He's the water to your rock and he is wearing you down. AGAIN.
And who gives a flying fart in space if you're in your BEDROOM with your bra off???
PA, love aside, I believe THE reason that you are trying so hard to make this marriage work is because you see divorce as a failure. My dear friend, it is NOT your failure. It's HIS. He has failed you so many times in so many ways... time after time after time. He does just enough to reel you back in. That's why he is "changing" now. He's desperate to get you back.
You need to put YOU first. YOUR wants. YOUR needs. No one else. You PA. YOU. You are a warm, generous, loving, beautiful woman. And you deserve so much more. xoxoxoxo
My worry too is that he's
My worry too is that he's going to "change" until she goes back, and then turn around and leave her - because people like this don't like being dumped, they want to be the dumper.
That's why I said he is going
That's why I said he is going through the motions ant that I believe 1000% he will revert to his craptastic ways.
Once he has "free time", he will start looking for his next victim, lie about his marital status, get engaged, and THEN dump PA.
Aniki! Don't fret about me! I
Aniki! Don't fret about me! I've upped my kickboxing to sparring with people at the gym! And so far that's going great! (also I carry le glock...) I don't want you staying up worrying!!!
I think part of me does see divorce as a failure, but I also agree it's his failure. I talked this out with my mom the other day. She thought the same. lol.
He has failed me a lot, and that's why I'm not back. I want to give him one last shot, so far he's throwing it away like all the others. But it's a last ditch effort tbh. And I think we both know it at this point.
Thank you Aniki!!! xoxo
Sweetie, I'm a chronic
Sweetie, I'm a chronic insomniac! My being awake was my own thoughts and worries so I channeled my thoughts elsewhere.
I'm just gonna say it. He is not good enough for you.
PA~ How long are you going to
PA~ How long are you going to continue trying and see if things will work? Do you have a date in place? Like see if things improve in 6 months or 1 year?
Wishing you much healing!
I want to give him until
I want to give him until February idealy (unless he forks up so hoorendously I just peace out). At the end, he doens't clean up his act, I can say I put in the effort. If he does, then awesome, I waited just long enough.
So what is the line he has to
So what is the line he has to cross? Hit you? That's the only line I know he hasn't crossed.
He f*cked someone else.
He stalks you.
He controls you.
He psychologically abuses you.
He manipulated you to care so much about his kids that he felt it okay to CHEAT ON YOU AND LOOK AT ENGAGEMENT RINGS WITH ANOTHER WOMAN AND BUY HER PRESENTS WITH YOUR MONEY WHILE YOU WATCHED HIS KIDS.
Where is the line, because for me, he has run so far past it that I can't see it anymore.
What line are you waiting for
What line are you waiting for?? He's crossed about 146 of them already! About the only one he hasn't crossed yet is physically beating you. Don't wait until he kills you before you decide you've had enough.
Sounds to me like you are
Sounds to me like you are willing to commit to the relationship if he demonstrates that HE is also willing to recommit AND DO THE HARD WORK it takes. It's that second part that concerns me.
He's had three or four counseling sessions and he's already pressuring you to do what he wants you to do (move back in, wear a bra in your own room, etc.). That isn't NEARLY enough time. He has to rebuild trust from his affair, work on his behavior as a parent and a partner, and work on his controlling behavior. That's a LOT.
He has to be willing to answer all your questions, even repeated questions about the same thing, related to his affair and anything else. He must demonstrate absolute trustworthiness about his own behavior. He must show true remorse.
My DH had a long-standing emotional affair. I nearly left him, but eventually we both recommited to the relationship. I was in individual therapy for a year. HE IS STILL IN THERAPY THREE YEARS LATER. He's done the hard work of change and rebuilding trust, but he finds it beneficial to continue to check in every month or two to keep him on track. THAT is long term. Is your SO willing to do that?
You've been abused and you need time to heal. My own opinion is that you need to find your own strength and confidence before you even consider moving back in with him. I'd definitely be looking for my own place and would have no hesitation about signing a year's lease. It should take you at least that long. And your SO should be falling all over himself to support you in what YOU need to do, not making demands about what he WANTS you to do, particularly this early in the recovery process.
Well, he expected her to get
Well, he expected her to get over his affair in a matter of weeks. Of course he's pressuring PA. The longer she stays gone, the less chance there is of her coming back.
I do not know that she should
I do not know that she should sign a 1 year lease. The only reason she is in this geographic area, is this prick.
If she is going to give him until February (two months) perhaps she should wait until then, because then she can make some decisions on where she wants to live - perhaps the Marines will come calling, or home with her parents while she regroups or anywhere but there!
Something that I was thinking
Something that I was thinking is when you go to your next session perhaps asking what steps should/could you take in regards to the girls. Meaning if you decide not to end the relationship, moving forward should you still keep in contact with his daughters.
Have you thought about this aspect of it? If he's as manipulative as he has been, do you want to chance your healing with maintaining contact with his girls? He may use them to bait you and keep you in his life in some way, shape or form.
Just something to think about.
If you have been reading
If you have been reading about abuse, you should know what others here say is truth. NO CONTACT is the absolutely ONLY way to free yourself from this mess. It's also the ONLY way you will receive clarity regarding your situation...whether you later decide to work it out or not. You need your OWN therapist that specializes in abuse issues.
You have to go no contact.....
You remind me much of myself during the year leading up to me making the decision to leave my exh. My children were babies still, 2 and 4 when I finally left. I had made up my mind MUCH prior to that, he just would not leave. You have no 'strings' like children with him to keep you there.
What you have is called a trauma bond, and that is what keeps you IN this relationship -even knowing all he has doneto you -if you are considering 'giving a shot' means you have and are deeply bonded to this dysfunction...it's not a fault, it's not a wrong form your end, it is an expected result of your relationship situation.
Please read this article:
https://thoughtcatalog.com/shahida-arabi/2018/02/this-is-what-it-really-...
That's why he is desperate to
That's why he is desperate to keep IN contact with her - to keep her under the influence and under his control. If PA actually gets time to THINK? Yeah.
He doesn’t want to lose free
He doesn’t want to lose free babysitter and her paycheck
Oh, yeah...this? Doens't like
Oh, yeah...this? Doens't like me being independent... Is mad that I have friends and tlak to more than just him..
This is classic abuser behavior. To keep you ISOLATED.
Yes, 100pct true!
Yes, 100pct true!
I also would love more explanation on him getting mad you were in your room with no bra? First, how the eff does he know where you are and if you do/don't have any underwear on???
how the eff does he know
how the eff does he know
Right??? Why does he need to know PA is braless - sexy talk? I've had sexy talk with my DH, claiming I was nekkid when I was actually wearing leggings and an over-sized sweatshirt. Sexy talk is the last thing these two need to be doing. :(
I am torn. If you have
I am torn. If you have February in your head as a deadline, and you will give yourself permission to formally end this realtionship after the deadline then I cannot see that there will be a huge amount harm in continuing until then, as long as you continue as you have been. living apart and keeping a level head when looking at everything.
I also see that february is 2 months away, and I question what he can really do over the next two months that will convince you he is on the path to permanent, real change? Is the february deadline more about not wanting to ruin anybodies holiday season? Is there some other practical reason why february makes sense to you? (You do not have to tell us, just something to think about). If that reason makes sense to you then that is fine, but I might reframe things in my mind. Rather than february being a deadline for him to show real change, adjust it to february is when you will contact a lawyer and begin divorce proceedings. That way the default step is divorce and not giving him one more chance. You could even call a lawyer and make an appointment for febrary to get it in your diary and commit you to that step.
Please DO NOT TELL your husband about this deadline though...this is a deadline for you and your decisions. If he wants to change he should be doing that now becuase he wants to change, not because he thinks if he fakes it for a few months he will get another shot with you.
Good advice, BethAnne. I
Good advice, BethAnne. I think PA needs to have a plan in place for her EXIT strategy, if all goes to hell. And keep it to herself.
He doesn't know about this
He doesn't know about this date. And I do have an exit strategy. I have paperwork to fill out to file, a friends decree to mimic, and my aunt has agreed to watch my puppers if needed for a while if I decide to go military after the proceedings. If not, my parents have offered me their basement to live in, and agreed to let me bring the puppers. :) I do have an emergency exit strategy in place just in case.
Plus part of why I'm traveling is because I'm paid an extra $50 per day in perdium. So I'll have some extra emergecy cash.
Why would you even consider
Why would you even consider divorcing abuser and cheater “a failure”. I’d think it’s a failure to stay married to such a man. You have no kids with this man (and shouldn’t have kids with him), you can’t ever have unprotected sex with him because he isn’t to be trusted, you aren’t allowed to have friends etc etc Why anyone would choose such marriage?
Plus he likely still cheats or will as soon as he can.