How bad does it need to be before something can be done?

I'm starting to have serious anxiety about skid weekends. But, not the way most of the people of this forum seem to have it. See, I actually like my SS5, and I seriously hate having to send him back to the BM. But I get super anxious when he comes, because more times than not he comes back somehow damaged. The current arrangement is about 60/40. (BM has 60)

Im fairly certain the BM has borderline personality disorder, and its manifesting itself as all kinds of emotional abuse on my poor SS. But CPS doesn't care about emotional abuse. Its too hard to prove. And even if we had the money to fight it in court, I still feel like its a long shot because its difficult to prove. Basically it just turns into "well, my toddler said that..." Or it can even be, I saw the BM do this or this but then she would simply deny it. All of this stuff is simply my DH's word against hers.

My DH is in the process of filing for contempt since the parenting plan has a nondisparagement clause, but I don't feel too hopeful about the outcome simply because his filings are basically a list of "my toddler said XYZ" or, "I saw the BM do/say XYZ" It certainly doesn't help that BM lives with her parents, her mother is a Borderline too, and so far as I can tell the mother is helping her in her campaign to make the kid hate daddy. Her parents will just stand there and corroborate anything the BM says. We already know they're terrified of losing custody to my DH.

Things my SS has said in the last few months?

SS is crying on his bed. We ask why he's crying. He replies "I'm a bad boy" we ask him why he's a bad boy. He says "because im seeing daddy, and mommy cries all the time when I see daddy. Im making mommy cry, I'm a bad boy."

While walking through the woods, SS5 got tired and wanted to be picked up. My DH goes to pick him up and SS says no, I want SM to do it. I explained that SS was too heavy for me to carry, and asked him why he didn't want to be carried by daddy anymore. SS replies "Daddy's not safe." We asked if SM was safe and SS replied that I was safe, but daddy's not. So we asked where he got that from and he replies "Mommy and grandma say daddy's dangerous"

We are driving home and SS randomly starts crying hysterically it the car. "I want my mommy, I want my mommy" we reply by explaining when he will see mommy again. SS continues "I want my mommy now, I hate daddy" We ask why he would say something like that. SS replies "Because I'm not allowed to have a daddy, Mommy gets angry, I can't have a daddy."

SS throws a tantrum during exchange. Basically he wants his mommy, doesn't want to go with daddy, kicking and screaming and a nightmare to get into the car. Afterwards I asked him why he behaved that. "Mommy needs me, I can't go with daddy. I have to take care of mommy"

Two weeks ago- While walking through the woods, SS5 got tired and wanted to be picked up. My DH goes to pick him up and SS says no, I want SM to do it. I explained that SS was too heavy for me to carry, and asked him why he didn't want to be carried by daddy anymore. SS replies "Daddy's not safe." We asked if SM was safe and SS replied that I was safe, but daddy's not. So we asked where he got that from and he replies "Mommy and grandma say daddy's dangerous"

Last Friday- DH reads a bedtime story and says goodnight. Says I love you to SS. SS doesn't say anything and looks down. DH asks him if everything is okay and SS keeps looking down. DH is confused and repeats "I love you." SS replies with "Mommy says im not allowed to say that to you anymore. Sorry."

Last Saturday- DH finds SS crying on his bed. He asks why he's crying, and SS responds that he's sad. When DH asks him why he's sad SS5 replies "Because I'm not allowed to love daddy" DH asks him why he's not allowed to love daddy, and SS replies in tears- "Because mommy puts me in timeout every day until I don't love daddy anymore."

Ok, like I seriously can't anymore. This kid is 5 for heaven's sake. Yah, I know its not my kid not my problem supposedly, but first off, he lives in my house half the time and we need to deal with his wacky BM induced behavior. She's created a depressed 5 year old. Secondly, how am I supposed to spend time every week with a child that I know is being abused and I can't do anything to protect him? I know he's coming tonight until Monday and i'm seriously dreading finding out what the BM has done to him this time.

We really don't know how to respond to this stuff when SS says it. If we trash talk the BM he just goes right back and tells her. Sure, we can ask SS to question things himself, like ask him if he ever saw daddy do anything to make SS think he's not safe... Or we can point out that the BM wasn't crying when she called him so she obviously can't cry all the time when he's not there. But how are you supposed to respond to a kid when he tells you mommy puts him in timeout until he stops loving daddy? I mean, there's really a point where your voice just catches in your throat because you're so horrified and disgusted by this woman you can barely breathe let alone figure out how to explain this to a 5 year old.

Any advice? Advice on talking to this kid in a way that will help, and of course I'm always welcoming advice on how to get looney tunes out of his life or at least minimized to a point where she can't damage him.

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If it is possible under their

If it is possible under their parenting plan I would take him to see a therapist. If it is not possible then seek advice yourselves from a professional as to how to handle these conversations. And formally request from BM that the boy sees a therapist. If she denies him access to one then that is further evidence to submit to a court. I would talk to the boy’s teacher and see if he exhibits any unusual behaviors at school. I might also take him to his doctor to get him checked over and the doctor might be able to help out talking to him too.

I have read on this website about a movie called welcome back Pluto that some parents of children who have been pas’ed show their kids. I have not seen it but it might be worth a look.

I would also advise that you read up everything that you can find on parental alienation and educate yourselves as much as possible. Make sure that your lawyer is knowledgeable on the subject too.

Set up skype calls, record

Set up skype calls, record them and see if you can get proof she's saying stuff like this.

OP, This is the exact

OP,

This is the exact situation we were in almost nine years ago. It is heartbreaking. "Luckily", our BM was also committing medical and educational neglect, so DH filed for custody when Killjoy was 6 and finally got custody when she was 8.5. The PAS was a factor in DH getting custody, but probably would not have been enough on its own.

At 8.5, it was too late. I believe it was already too late when she was 6. This girl has severe psychological problems. And she still has visitation with Voldemort, so the PAS continues.

I used to care, but I can't anymore. Your results may be better, since your step is a boy, but if DH doesn't get custody, this child may already be lost to him. The courts don't care as much as they should about this terrible child abuse, and they rarely take drastic action. For your own mental health, I strongly advise you to limit your exposure and emotional investment. I'm sorry you are going through this.

It is only a matter of time before this little boy succumbs to the alienation, as a matter of survival. Here is part one in a series that explains it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_gfu_4XNyU&t=22s

I recommend watching the whole series.

You can spend gobs of money trying to enforce the non disparagement clause, but the only proof you have puts SS in the middle of tattling on his mom and the result is more abuse on him and less he will tell you in the future. If BM has a derogatory attitude toward DH, which she does, and doesn't know how to hide it, which she probably doesn't, she may show her ass to the judge and he might still do nothing about it. If she does get a slap on the wrist, or even worse loses custody like ours did, she will still continue to alienate the kid. She cannot stop.

In the custody proceedings, our BM coached Killjoy to tell the GAL she hates her dad, got caught doing so, was cited for it when she lost custody, then continued to try to force the courts to "allow" Killjoy to "testify in front of the judge" several more times after that. After losing custody, BM continued to bring Killjoy into the GAL to tell him how much she hates us. BM also sent Killjoy to the school nurse and guidance counsellor to say we were abusing her. No doubt she has also called CPS on us, but they must be ignoring her.

Thank you for your story. I'm

Thank you for your story. I'm also interested in hearing from others who have been in the same situation. I'm sorry help was too late for your SD. What was the original custody agreement like, until SD was 8?

Would you be able to give me some examples of the kinds of things she said that came from mistreatment by BM and also how you and your DH addressed them?

Did you ever try being completely honest about everything? (Generally discouraged since if the BM is a POS, you literally cant be honest without talking badly about her in front of the child)

DH had SD every other

DH had SD every other weekend, Wednesdays for dinner, half the holidays, and a week vacation in the summer. He probably could have gotten more summer vacay, but didn't have the time off work.

SD's mother is a psychopath, and she has munchausen's. Since a very young age, SD has thought her mother was dying. If only that were true. BM has faked cancer numerous times. BM made SD take care of her since she was a toddler. BM had SD thinking she was dying when SD wasn't there. BM also told SD that DH abused her, is rotten and mean, an alcoholic, etc. BM told SD that it makes BM sad that DH doesn't love her anymore. She told SD that she isn't allowed to like me, I'm not her parent, and she doesn't have to listen to me. BM cries in front of SD constantly. I can't even begin to describe the things she's done. SD was sick all the time with BM, and BM told her we were making SD sick. BM got on the phone, with 911 on the other end, or no one at all, and told them she was dying, in front of SD. She's made suicide gestures in front of SD. She took SD to the hospital to watch BM's twin sister die, and BM was the one who was killing her. BM goaded her own brother into hanging himself, and then took SD to his funeral. Months later BM claimed she was estranged from her brother because he sexually abused her, and sued her own mom for letting it happen, and it was all a lie. BM later made up a story about her mother threatening to shoot her with a gun. BM implied that DH was complicit with everything. BM convinced SD that we are mean, abusive, controlling, bullies, and SD does not have to listen to us.

You can't reason with little children, they don't have the capacity to understand. Putting them in the middle only increases their stress. The only thing we told SD was that there is enough love for everyone, and her mother is not dying. We told SD that her mother is a grownup and it is not a kids job to worry about grownups, they can take care of themselves. We told her it is not her fault her mom is sad, and there is nothing she can do about it. We told her she does not have to feel guilty for the way her mom is, she has been this way her whole life, she just wants people to feel sorry for her. We told SD that she can love both parents and she doesn't have to choose. We bought the book I Don't Want To Choose, but that is no longer in print. When SD got older we told her about her mom faking cancer to get people to feel sorry for her, we told her to stop believing it, we told her it was a mean thing for someone to do. We told SD that BM's goal is free money, because she doesn't want to work.

These kids are not generally receptive to facts. More often than not, they will be angry with you for badmouthing the mom, and will tattle on you for it. It sounds like you still think you have a chance to magically change things. You don't. There is no happy ending here. You are not going to be trusted by this kid. The only one who could possibly help is an outside professional, if you can find someone brave enough to try, and even then, this child will be damaged. Expect BM to pull out all the stops to interfere with his recovery.

I would get DH to get this

I would get DH to get this kid some serious therapy during the visitations with him, and I would pay for it on my own, not even ask BM ...

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