good luck... when u figure something out let me know... i think guys like that r just plain stubborn!

Awesome question. I wonder how many replies you will get because who knows. If we could get our men to listen we wouldn't be here complaining to each other right? I have thought so much about this. My BF takes baby steps, but by baby I mean microscopic. What I have realized is that I think we are afraid to give our men consequences because we need/want their love and are afraid of the possiblity that if we push too hard, they will run out the door, or into the arms of another woman (the problem with withholding sex) or just totally detach from us. I think we have to push, and if they go we are better off, but good grief, that's a scary one and I haven't been about to do it very well.
I have found that yelling is a waste of time. They tune out and get defensive and mine turns it around so whatever ended up hurting me in the first place becomes peanuts compared to the things he says when I confront him. A variation of the silent treatment works best for me so far. I am nice but distant, just let him know that I am sad and disappointed but I don't force it down his throat. He eventually feels bad that I feel bad, and he acknowledges whatever topic I brought up recently that he blew off at the time. It works best when the first few times he approaches you and asks to talk, say "oh, sighhhh, its okay, I'm fine, I love you. sighhhh again." If you do it right, he will eventually almost beg to talk and try to make you smile again.
The other thing that works if you can pull it off (yes, I have been to many therapists myself so these ideas are partially theirs) is to make the man think that your great idea came from him. If it is his, it must be brilliant. If it came from you, you obviously have evil self-centered intentions. Or on the same note, frame whatever it is that you want or need in the context of his kid. For example, I can never say that I would like some quality adult time with BF at the end of the night. Then I am a selfish bitch who hates his kid (or that's what he hears). But, I can wait until the kid falls asleep on the couch or yawns during dinner, and express my concern that skid seems tired, and remind him that school performance is influenced by fatigue, and that young boys need their rest to grow into NFL quarterbacks who make their dads proud. When BF thought of it in these terms, that kid was in the sack by 10pm and I get my quality time and he thinks he is being a great dad. I couldn't care less as long as I get an hour without that little stinker!
You have to be one step smarter than your man it seems. Know what he wants and make him think he is getting it. I hate having the skid around and he wants me to totally adore the brat. One of my advantages is BF has a poor memory. Use your advantages. I keep my ear out for everything related to the kid schedule. Then I excitedly suggest that we do this or that fun activity with skid. OHHHH, he has a birthday party go to on that day, OHHHH, bummer, guess we will have to go alone.
In the end, it isn't so much training and punishing your man with time outs and withholding sex. Its more being smarter and malipulating the situation to get your needs met. Think of it this way, if you want your dog to go 100 feet down the street, do you try to reason with him and explain that you need your space, that his breath stinks, or that he is muddy and your dress is white, and could he please step away for a few moments? Of course not, you pretend to throw a ball, and let him run after it like a crazy fool. He is happy and so are you. Same result. Its said for a reason... MEN ARE DOGS.

I'm not sure I would want to be in a relationship with someone if I felt like I needed to come up with consequences for his behavior. That just doesn't sound healthy to me. It sounds like you are trying to change him. And you can't.

Women marry men hoping to change them. Men marry women hoping they will never change. It's a vicious little trick nature plays on us.

I may not be an expert. But I have been in a happy marriage for quite a few years. And I do know that you cannot change another person's behavior.

Stepaside: I think every single one of us would be lying if we said that we didn't at sometime or someway set out a consequence for something to our SO's. Whether we admit to it out loud, or not. I think it's great that you are working w/a COUNSELOR to try to repair your marriage and I for one totally support you. Although, I will admit it was a really hard question. I thought about answering when I read this earlier w/the same thing that you came up with too, ("forget to make dinner", or cleaning"). But, I wasn't sure if it was a good idea and didn't respond and for that I'm sorry. Didn't want you thinking you're hangin' out there by yourself.

IMHO: If we don't set our boundaries as to how we are being treated, then who the hell is gonna? I REFUSE to be a victim of my own life.

I don't know of any consequences that you could use, right off hand but I DO know that watching "It's Me or the Dog" and "Supernanny" has helped me in a few ways with my DH!

Yes, I am using techniques normally used on dogs and misbehaving children!

The comments by some posters and therapist are all alarming. Mom2five advise is right on.

The main problem with relationships is attitudes like this! MEN are NOT dogs, not a CHILD ..we dont'and shouldn't want to train them, punish them, give consequences, MANIPULATE them with games. They should be are equal partners. We should respect them and love them. And THERAPISTS are suggesting this?? wow.

If you can't have a relationship w/out these things-then walk away, but you can't change them. There's gentle encouragement and asking for understanding and talking or nudging....then there's "apply punishment/consequence/manipulate" world of difference.

Communication and understanding is key-if you feel you have to train/dominate/punish/manipulate the "simple minded male" so he can "act right" then you're in the wrong mindset for a relationship, period. It's as destructive and horrible as misogyny or a man that abuses his wife. That's not an exaggeration. The mentality women are carrying about their men is so very sad!!

You can always apply boundaries which is very different. There's an excellent book called Boundaries that might help. Don't buy the advice of 'training a man' it's incredibly damaging.

Oops there, I don't want to be misinterpreted. I too believe in communication being the avenue, but it seems like Step has tried that, he is not responding on this issue and giving false promises with no "repercussions or consequences", so she is doing the healthy thing by seeing a therapist and drawing her "line in the sand", to fix her marriage.

Own example: I have done in the past: In the beginning when DH and I were 1st dating there was something that I felt really strongly about that absoutely was not going to work for me, ya know a "deal breaker", I talked with DH about this. DH said he was going to change this and didn't, I then disengaged my normal routine i.e., cleaning, laundry because I was seriously setting up the change in the relationship, frankly to leave it. He then decided to change it and we worked it out. That is what I personally meant by "consequences".

I feel guilty (because others on here have it pretty darn rough), for saying this, but I have an awesome marriage and I truly believe that my only life stressor is the BM situation. Not trying to come off as harsh myself, but I have very, very strong convictions of setting boundaries for yourself. I don't believe in manipulation being the key either, just to clarify what I meant. Also wanted to make sure that Step knows she is supported.

Overit2, you are either from another planet or a dude. It is unclear which, probably same difference. Whatever the case, you are obviously not dealing with the issues the rest of of face if you think gentle nudging and encouragement are going to do the trick...as if we didn't all start out with that naivety and as if we didn't try all of that first. If that works for you, congrats. The rest of us need practical solutions for the real world. If you are a dude, your post if kind of sad, because it re-emphasizes the point that men have no clue what they put us through and how difficult it is to make progress. Try gently nudging an elephant for a few hours, then come to me with a real idea about how to get some forward movement!

Your life is in a good place right now. Again congrats. Sad that you find it necessary to preach to those of us who have a different experience. I think another website might better fit your needs. Perhaps you should be a counselor yourself since you have it all figured out. Or maybe write a book to enlighten us all. I believe the original poster of this forum came for advice and a place to vent. You don't seem to understand the purpose of this website. No, not all men are dogs, but many are just as not all women are bitches, but many are. That is reality my dear. We don't all live in Stepford. My advice to you....don't preach too loudly....when your perfect little bubble bursts, you may need some of our misogynistic shoulders to cry on. To the rest of on this site who help each other, support each other and listen to each other...Lets move on.

Oh no steppedInIt...don't worry, overit2 is referring to me. I am the man hating mysogynist with the disgusting attitude }:) . Not that someone who has it all together like overit2 who supports gentle nudging and pleasant conversation would EVER call someone names. That would be sooooo ungentle and :jawdrop: hypocritical??

You can draw a line in the sand/create a boundary...saying simply you will not do it, and how beneficial it will be for him to teach them to do it in the long run. Then sit back and watch the piles grow and do not ever do it for him-if it starts to stink too bad throw it in a basket in the garage. That isn't manipulation/threat/punishment/silent treatement, etc. It's stating a fact/boundary and sticking to it.

I'm sorry if you feel my advice isn't helpful though.

Overit2, thank you for enlightening us all. I will tell my therapist that she is being replaced. May I suggest you change your web name from overit to getoveryourself?
And thanks for the English lesson:
"Actually I compared it to misogyny-the correct word is misandry/misandrist."
Here's one from me, "Self-righteous: Confident of one's own righteousness, esp. when smugly moralistic and intolerant of the opinions and behavior of others."
Eventually all people like you who float around on their cloud telling others how it is will fall back to earth. When it happens to you, please join us, until then, please spare the rest of us the lectures. We get enough crap at home and don't need it here too.
That reminds me. There used to be someone else on this site who took everyone's heartfelt suffering and turned it into a lecture. Help me out ladies. Who was that? She had the rabbit picture next to her name. We don't hear from her anymore. Maybe she fell off her cloud and came crashing to earth. Maybe she changed her site name. Overit2, are you that reincarnated rabbit lady? Funny, thanks for the diversion today. I would tell you to enjoy your weekend, but I know you will.

Sorry you feel so bitter with yourself that you have to come and attack me when I'm trying to help the OP out w/useful info and from my own personal experience. It's obvious to me your issues are your own and you're projecting your own plentiful venom on me....but hey whatever gets YOU through the wknd also.

Shall we take a vote? Preaching is rarely useful. Save it for your family. I am SURE they appreciate the "useful info." "OP" and I are going out now, to make fun of you over a glass of wine. Cheers.