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Constant Demands for Extra Money

strugglingSM's picture

I'm so fed up with BM's constant demands for extra money for things that should be covered by CS or for things that DH has no information about before receiving a vague demand for more money.

BM complains incessantly that DH does not communicate with her, but 99% of her texts to him are demands for extra money. For example, two recent texts she's sent him - "Are you planning to contribute anything for school clothes and school supplies?" followed an hour later by "I sent you a text and you never responded. I need to know if you'll be contributing." Yesterday, she sent him a text saying "are you going to contribute to 6th grade camp this year?" No information on what 6th grade camp is (I think it's an environmental learning trip for the 6th grade, but there is no info on the school website), no information on whether the kids want to go (one wets the bed regularly and the other has meltdowns at bedtime, but by all means, send them to a sleepover field trip), no information on how much camp might cost. A couple of hours later, she sent him another text saying "I sent you a question about school camp and you never responded. If you want communication to be better between us, you need to respond when I text you."

A little background on the communication issue - DH and BM do not get along (according to what he's told me, they never really did). Nearly every conversation they have devolves into a fight. Therefore, DH has started avoiding having conversations with BM at all and has told her several times that he avoids conversations with her because they always fight and he's sick of that. This has led BM to tell my SSs "your father hates me." "Your father ignores me." "Your father never responds to me." In response, DH has told her that he's sick of her putting the kids in the middle (there are more egregious examples of her putting the kids in the middle, including her telling one (this year, four years after their divorce was final) that DH "caused the divorce"). DH has already told her that he's happy to provide for his children, but he does not appreciate constant demands for money from her.

When I met DH he was always giving BM whatever money she asked for. She would send him an email with her list of demands, never with receipts and he would give the money - usually in cash. She even demanded he pay for a broken window in her house (not a house she and DH had owned together, but one she was renting with her boyfriend) because she said one of their sons had broken it (this year, he found out from his child that BM's boyfriend's son actually broke the window). She also sends all of her requests at the absolute last minute without any discussion, usually the same day she needs the money or after she's paid. He showed me an email that she sent before we met where she threatened to report him to child support enforcement because she said he owed her $32 for school pictures.

DH always pays his child support on time. When we met, he was even paying her $20 extra every month because he had the amount wrong in his mind and she didn't correct him. We buy all the clothes the children wear at our house (she sends nothing with them and then makes a stink if they don't come home in the exact same clothes they wore on Friday evening, but of course, never sends home clothes from our house that end up at hers). We buy all clothes they need to go outside in the snow (DH's family has a family cabin in the mountains), because BM says "it's not my responsibility to buy clothes for them to play in the snow." DH pays full price for every extra that comes up when they are with us - sports pictures, Santa pictures (which BM requested he get), glasses, dentist appointments, haircuts (I think we are the only ones who take them for haircuts even though they are only with us EOWE) - never asking BM for a dime for any of those. We also pay $80 a month to cover their cell phones under our family plan (cell phones which BM uses to contact them more than DH does). BM makes at least twice what DH does, she was the breadwinner when they were married and he managed a lot of the child care. She now has a boyfriend (whom she left DH for), who according to her is a "stay at home dad", so she doesn't have to pay for child care.

The biggest expense was sports. She would send DH a handwritten note of all of the money she had spent on sports and sports gear, giving him an amount of what she felt he owed her. No receipts, no proof that she actually spent, nothing. She was asking him to give her several hundred dollars extra each month to cover these "expenses". When DH and I were engaged, I told him that I was not ok with him just giving her extra money, especially because I'm not convinced she is actually spending what she says she is. She has had financial problems in the past, including a business partner who severed ties with her because he was skeptical of her spending and realized she was not paying income taxes for herself; an outstanding tax debt owed to the IRS of over $50k; and spends at least $25k per year (by her own calculations) at the casino. Did I mention she's an accountant who specializes in business fraud? She makes a six figure income and they don't live in a costly area (they also live in a home that her parents bought for them), but she is still always out of money. Two years after the divorce she "borrowed" $5000 from my MIL because she "needed it" (she even convinced DH to ask his mother, instead of asking herself) and then never paid it back. She also has at least one existing judgment against her from a credit card company. I told DH that he needed to get receipts for what she was spending because she wasn't trustworthy. She screamed and cried about this, as if it was totally out of line for someone to ask for proof of the payment when you are asking them to give you money. She then sent him pictures of checks she had supposedly written, even though some were written out for the wrong amounts and to the wrong names. She claimed they were pictures of "cancelled checks", but they were just pictures of the front of the check, not the back and did not have any printed marks on them from a bank. All checks were also written from her business account, not her personal account.

I told DH that when we were married, we couldn't have surprise demands for an extra $100-$200 every month to cover expenses that were never discussed. I encouraged the two of them to develop a budget together of what they were willing to spend on sports for the year. He and I came up with a total that was well over the average for what is spent on elementary school students, figured out what his portion would be and listed what costs he expected on a spreadsheet. He presented that spreadsheet to her as a tool to start their discussion and said if she disputed his numbers, he was happy to discuss alternatives. He said he wanted to meet with at the beginning of the summer to discuss the sports budget for the upcoming year. DH went with what he was prepared to spend and approached it as a discussion. He originally suggested that they sit down with the kids and discuss what they wanted to do and BM said "they are children, they shouldn't be part of this conversation" and refused to allow them to attend. BM came with no information, no thoughts on what she thought was a reasonable budget. She just used the meeting as her chance to veto or approve what DH wanted. For example, DH wanted to sign them up for ski lessons (we had taken them once the previous year and they both begged to go again). BM said "they've never mentioned skiing to me, so I won't pay for it." DH said "that's fine, but I plan to take them skiing, so I'll pay the full amount and take that out of my budget for the year". The ski lessons were nearly $1000, so that ate up the remaining budget for the year. Then she scheduled another sporting event on DH's weekend that meant that one child didn't even go to the final ski lesson, which we had carefully scheduled only on our weekends. She told DH "SS11 doesn't even like skiing" (funny, since SS11 asks us all the time when we are going skiing again). I was proud of DH because he held the line with her saying "we discussed our budget. I told you what I was comfortable spending and also told you that if I covered skiing on my own, I would subtract that from my budget. I exceeded my budget in paying for the skiing, so I won't pay for anything else this year." She told him that she was just being nice by not asking for receipts from skiing to prove he had spent his entire budget.

She also has a tendency of expecting DH to reimburse her for the full amount of any money she spends, rather than his 30% contribution designated in their parenting plan (because she makes so much more than him, they split extra expenses 30/70). Last fall she had a fit over football cleats (SS11 had football cleats that DH had purchased for flag football, but apparently, he needed high top cleats), demanding that DH buy them. He told her, he would buy them, but couldn't buy them the weekend she wanted him to buy them because we were going away with the kids. He said he would buy them on the next visitation weekend. She told him that was way too late and she'd just buy them herself. She then wanted to know if he would pay. He replied and said, yes, he would pay his share. She just needed to give him a receipt. She then didn't buy the cleats until our next visitation weekend (when DH has originally offered to buy them and which she said was "way too late"), but didn't tell DH until the day of the game, saying he'd have to stop by her house and get the cleats. When he got the cleats, she gave him a receipt that included the cleats, a water bottle, and a bag of fruit chews that her husband had bought when he bought the cleats. DH wrote her a check for his portion of the cleats and gave it to her. She told him he was "wasting her time" by only paying for part of the cleats and not paying for the other items and that she was going to rip up the check. This year, she made a big stink about how she had to buy new cleats. Meanwhile, she sold the old ones online for only $5 less than she paid for them new. She was only paying $10-$15 for new cleats, but if she could have gotten away with it, she certainly would have demanded DH pay the entire amount for the new cleats.

My view is that when you are a divorced parent and you are putting in a good faith effort to co-parent with your ex, that you need to put in the extra effort to plan things out and agree to them. Not decide on your own and then demand your ex go along with it. You also need to approach spending discussions as collaborative discussions, not efforts to extort as much money from your ex as you can and then play the victim when he questions some of the spending. Married parents typically discuss how much they are willing to spend on sports, so why do those discussions go out the window when parents are divorced. Aren't those discussions even more necessary when parents are divorced because they are now living separate lives and likely have different views on how those lives should play out?

I also don't understand what divorced parents think they are going to gain by treating the other parent as a piggy bank. It cheapens the parental relationship in general if the only thing the non-custodial parent is good for is money. DH's ex wife gives him zero information about school, about medical issues, about how the kids are doing, about what they are up to, but she certainly lets him know when she feels like he owes her money. If the custodial parent creates a fight over money by demanding the other parent pay for things they had no idea about or pay for things that are supposed to be covered by child support, what do they hope to gain? How are you "putting your kids first" if you are constantly making an enemy out of your ex and causing resentment because you insist on making all the decisions and acting as the nag who is reprimanding your ex at every turn and implying that he doesn't pay his fair share (even when he does according to the legal agreement you both signed when you got divorced). I know the answer in my case is that BM hopes to gain control and also to blame DH for her money troubles. But seriously, we pay for a lot of things for the children and DH's mother pays for a lot of things for the children, so to hear from BM that he's a deadbeat dad and doesn't care about his kids because he refuses to give her whatever money she demands just makes me want to scream. I've told DH that if she thinks she's not getting enough child support and wants more, she can go back to court and ask for it. She shouldn't use the fact that she thinks she's not getting enough and she could go back to court if she wanted to (as she tells DH anytime she demands more money), as a threat to extort money from him. We pay for a lot for the children and we always provide them for what they need, but seriously, her demands make me not want to pay for anything extra. Also, I can't live with constant unexpected expenses coming at me just because BM can't plan ahead.

All of this is coming from a BM who says she "always puts the children's needs first" and "never puts herself first." I'm sure in her mind, demanding extra money from their dad and telling the kids that their dad is terrible because he doesn't give in to her demands feel to her like she is "putting them first", but she's not. She's putting them last by perpetuating conflict, by pulling the kids into the conflict, and by in general, staying angry over the divorce that she demanded.

I know in my case, this has nothing to do with money. This is all about control for BM and maintaining a connection with DH, even if that connection is through fighting with him. I wish there was more honesty out there about how divorced mothers are not always the victims, but oftentimes are the abusers in relationships. DH is always seen as the villain, even if he says nothing, because BM presents herself as this martyr who has to do it all for her kids. DH has asked several times for more of a joint custody arrangement and any time he asks, he is shot down. Yet, even DH's mother talks about how difficult BM's life is and how DH should be more appreciative of all she does for the children.

Comments

lieutenant_dad's picture

"BM, I'm happy to pay my 30% when you provide me with receipts/a link to the information/a copy if the registration form."

Each and every time she asks for something that he is COed to pay, that's his response.

Also, "no" is a complete sentence. If he can't afford something, doesn't want to pay for something, or doesn't have enough evidence to justify paying for something, he can say:

"I'm sorry, BM, but I cannot agree to pay for X because Y."

I totally understand where you are coming from. I could have written this (down to the stay-at-home dad thing) except BM in my case has very little income (in fact, DH and I have been together more years than the number of years she has worked part or full time in her whole life). It has gotten MUCH better in recent months because DH has been telling her no or buying things himself for the kids. She's pulled the whole "whoa is me, I'm a poor mother" thing, and while it works for a while, it eventually bites her in the ass. She has burned through friends, pissed off teachers, etc because of it.

Sometimes co-parenting doesn't work and parallel parenting is the best options. So long as he is doing what he needs to per the CO, and ensures that the kids aren't going without, he's doing his part.

Acratopotes's picture

}:) }:)

haven't seen you posting in a long long long time, thought you escaped step hell

hiehiehiehiehie you clever chicka

twoviewpoints's picture

I only got through your first two paragraphs for now.

Your BM reminded me of my kids when they were younger. "Mom can I go to camp"?
me: "what camp"
kid: "school 6th grade camp"
me: "I'm not sure what that is, where your note with info?"
kid: "Didn't get one"
me: "Did the teacher say she put the info on her school page?"
kid: *shrugs shoulders* "no"
me: *brings up teacher's page, looks at school news and calendars section*
kid: "Mom, can I go to camp?"

IMO, your DH needs to sit down and shoot BM an email. Explain that she may get responses if he actually was informed on what she was asking. Remind her that these things are mutual joint decisions and he can't make his part of any decision without the what, when, cost and of course, with as much pre-notice as possible. Short notice when notice could have been given may result in a 'no' due to budgeting . Reasonable request with advance notice may still result in a 'no' if he is not fully informed on the what, when, cost and given x amount of time to make a decision and get back to BM with a thought out decision and/or future necessity discussion.

All communication can be done through email. Even if not stated in CO, he can try requesting email only as communication and inform her he will not be responding to all her numerous text messaging.

Does he have to pay half of everything extra she request? No. Can Jr play football, basketball, go to camp, three field trips and join boy scouts? Well, Jr could IF BM and Dad both agree to it and decide to share the cost. Should Dad feel guilty or like a dead beat Daddy if he decides 'no' to half that list ? Nope. No kid needs to o and have everything kid wants. That's not the way it happens inn intact families and it doesn't have to be that way in divorced two household families.

Keep in mind, Dad should be regularly viewing the school's website for keeping up with school goings on and news/announcements. Dad should be having contact via teacher-parent conferences , he should have access to the online portal for viewing homework and grades and all that including emailing of teacher through it.

Problem with some teachers classroom info, the teacher sometimes sends one note home with the child. If it's BM getting that one note, Dad can ask for one to be also sent to him (emailed or snail mailed).

strugglingSM's picture

Yup, that sounds about right.

BM texted again tonight and the text conversation went like this:

BM: Are you going to tell me if you'll pay for camp or not?
DH: I don't know anything about camp, can you send some info?
BM: You have all the info I have.
DH: I don't have any info, can you just send a picture of whatever it is that you have?
BM: Now you're just demanding things from me!
DH: I'm not demanding, I'm asking for information. If you're going to require me to pay, then I'm going to need some information.
BM: I'm not requiring you to pay!

DH said then his phone battery died and he wasn't going to charge it up for a bit because he was sick of another text conversation that went nowhere. I'm not sure if she just wants him to say "yes, I'll pay", so she can later tell him how much she owes him (which in her mind would be the full amount) or if she's just having a bad day and wants to take her anger out on him.

I've scoured the school webpage and the only info I can find on "6th grade camp" is a gallery of undated pictures from a previous trip and a calendar posting for the 2016 parent meeting for 6th grade camp..

DH has asked at the school several times if he can also get copies of information sent to him. He's gotten one report card for one of his children in two years. The office always says "we put it in the mail" and they have the correct address, so I'm not sure what's going on.

I did figure out how to get him an account on the parent portal, so we do now get report cards that way and also get any announcements sent out over email. I logged on every day last semester to see if the kids were turning in their homework, because we found out at the mid-year conference that neither of them was handing in homework. We also called daily to work on homework via phone. At first BM said DH was "being intrusive", but then she started having the kids call us to work on homework because she didn't want to do it herself. Again, no info on the parent portal about 6th grade camp and I know BM hasn't paid for it, yet, because it isn't showing up as a payment received on the kids' accounts.

I think she might also be having money troubles at the moment, so she could just be looking to get money from DH, but really, it's like dealing with a child. She loves to blame DH, but it seems like her only view of "co-parenting" or "cooperation" is that she gives a demand and DH does whatever she wants. I also think she likes to text DH to maintain a connection with him, because even though she's with someone else, I think she still has feelings for DH. He disagrees with me, but when he and I met, she was calling him daily just to talk about herself, not the kids.

Livingoutloud's picture

This woman equates extravagant money spending with good parenting. There is more to parenting than spending

Frustrated4ever's picture

Same issue with the BM in our case. It's sick how everything is "in the best interest of the kids". My husband has the kids 49% of the time (of course specifically designed for various tax benefits for her), pays the maximum child support in our state based upon his income and pretending he has them 0% of the time, and 90% of all their agreed-on expenses. My husband makes exponentially more than her, so now she has programmed SD16 to argue her case for her. Neither BM nor SD can be told no. When my husband told her he would not be supportive of an activity that required travel 3 hours round-trip 5 times a week, BM signed her up anyway, and likely enjoyed the fact that SD could never join us for family time, vacations, etc. We can 99% of everything, including traveling all over the country and paying for travel ball, etc. but whenever he says no to one activity, SD16's constant response is "you never support me, mom is broke, you don't love me". May I add that two weeks ago after we took her to EUROPE she got of the plane and told me to go f*&% myself after my husband told her she wasn't getting a car ? Yes, once again, back to me. These BM's prey on the most vulnerable of their children to continually manipulate for more money and act out on their behalf.

Your last paragraph is dead-on about the BM in our situation as well..... ALWAYS the martyr, the victim, the selfless Virgin Mary. The truth is really she is a manipulative sociopath who lives on drama and would rather have constant verbal smackdowns via email by my husband rather than no attention at all. I haven't had any communication with her (in person, on the phone or via email) in 5 years, yet she still says hi to me in ranting emails between her and my husband because she thinks I am writing them for him. If only I cared that much about her........And I wonder where my SD gets her view of me ..... Thank goodness my husband shoots her down all the time.

strugglingSM's picture

I'm dreading the moment when one of my SS's gets in on the act. I've already warned my husband that it's only a matter of time before his son that is most like his mother starts making the demands for money. At least then, maybe he can say to him "you can do this or that, but not both." My SSs are 11 year old twins, they've already started talking about the kind of car their father will buy them. I said "we're not going to buy you a car. you'll have to start saving your money if you want a car."

BM used to make comments about me, saying I was "aggressive" even though I've only talked to her once, saying I "might be a child abuser" even though her children enjoy their time with me, etc. Everything she says just makes me feel all the more comfortable about continuing to ignore her. I will not get pulled into her craziness.

MoominMama's picture

Translating BM speak:

'it's for the kids' = It's because I want it.

'in the best interests of the children' = In my best interests.

hereiam's picture

She does this because she gets away with it. He should pay her nothing without proper info and receipts, and he should not have to beg for that info.

DH's ex wife gives him zero information about school, about medical issues, about how the kids are doing, about what they are up to

This was BM over here, too. She shot herself in the foot, as far as DH and extra money was concerned, long before I entered the picture. Their CO did not mention extras and he didn't give her any extra, due to her own shenanigans. Not that my SD did any extra curricular activities but...

DaizyDuke's picture

Yuck, this woman sounds like the devil. I have a 7 year old, and NONE of the things she is demanding ASAP are items that should be a surprise. On the last day of school in June, we ALL know that the first day of school will be in September. Plenty of time to get needed supplies and such. When I sign BS7 up for baseball, the sign ups are in February and practice does not start until the beginning of May. Plenty of time for me to plan on getting new cleats, pants etc that he may need. Same with soccer. Soccer sign ups are the beginning of July and BS had his first practice on Tuesday. Again plenty of time to prepare. There have also been multiple notices that have come home with BS from school in regards to soccer camps, summer camps etc and it's always at least a MONTH prior to the actual event.

It sounds like she does this crap on purpose to make your DH out to be the bad guy and/or to have a fight because she likes it. I agree with you, there is no freaking reason she can not produce a receipt when she wants your DH to pay his portion of something she purchased for skids.. and that should NOT include fruit snacks and water bottles?? What a freaking loon. There is no judge out there that is going to listen to her drivel about why she can't produce receipts for payments.

strugglingSM's picture

She definitely does it on purpose to make him look bad or to pick a fight. Yesterday he asked her for more information on something she wanted him to pay for. Her reply "I'm not your personal assistant. You can call the school if you want more info." Um, ok, well, that was helpful. Nothing like demanding money, but not being willing to share any information you have. She also told him last night "football pictures are happening right now, so you'll have to go to the practice field if you want any". Now, the envelopes for football pictures were sent home at practice, which she goes to, not DH, but god forbid she should pick up an envelope for him or even tell him that they were handing out envelopes at practice. I know they handed out the envelopes at least two weeks ago, because she thought the pictures were being taken during our last visitation weekend and sent her unsealed envelope filled with cash with one of the kids. I told DH, you better make sure that envelope gets back to her because she'll be accusing you of stealing her money if it doesn't.

hereiam's picture

"I'm not your personal assistant."

And he is not her personal bank. So?

I might be stupid, but if I wanted money from somebody, I'd play a little nicer. I wouldn't ever give her a penny that I didn't have to.

strugglingSM's picture

That's my feeling, too. And DH has started to ignore her requests for that very reason.

She does the same thing when she wants him to take the kids at the last minute or do some other favor for her. She'll start by telling him he's a terrible dad that he doesn't see the kids more often and how she would feel so terrible if she only saw them every other weekend (he asked for more parenting time and she screamed and cried, so this comment is particularly ironic coming from her). Then after he's ignored her messages, she'll finally say "I could really use someone to take the kids this weekend." These texts usually come to him on a Friday morning. My view is, if I'm going to ask someone for a favor, I don't tell them how they're a terrible person before I ask for help. I act like I'm totally grateful that they can help me and then thank them profusely after they have helped me.

When he does try to help, she'll then yell at him if the help is not exactly what she wants. For example, we were going away and BM needed last minute child care. DH contacted his brother to see if the kids could stay for the weekend. His brother said, of course. BM then said she needed someone to take the kids to and from school Thursday and Friday. DH's brother lives 40 miles away and has to take his own kids to and from school. DH told her "my brother can take them for the weekend, but can't get them to school during the week." Well, she told DH how he was ruining her trip (which was supposedly a business trip, but her boyfriend was going along), how he was ruining her Christmas, how he was the worst person in the world. Then she texted to say her mother had graciously agreed to take the kids to and from school. Her mother lives 2 miles away, but BM couldn't ask her first? Also, her mother is some saint for agreeing to help out?

I told DH to not even offer to help when she reaches out, because then it's his fault if she can't get whatever help she needs.

DaizyDuke's picture

HAHA this was soooooo BM2! I remember one time, she was texting DH, telling him that SS wanted to play the trombone (or some instrument) and she wasn't going to be able to afford the $30.00 or so a month for it. DH told her that's what CS was for and he might be willing to pay some but he wasn't about to pay it all. She then started the "your're an a-hole, you're a terrible father, blah blah blah" rerun until DH just started ignoring her.

I swear to you, no longer than an hour, after she's calling him an a-hole, DH gets a text from her.. "Oh hey, was wondering if you could watch SS tomorrow?" WTF???