UPDATE-- Appropriate punishment for SD4 lying
After talking to SO about many of the suggestions you wonderful ST'rs gave me we decided upon "holding cans" and let me tell you, its working awesome so far.
I explained to the skids that instead of getting spankings or long timeouts that their new punishment will be to hold cans. One can per hand, hands held out on level with their shoulders, for a period of time to correspond with their infraction. Well, not long after telling the girls this all 3 were playing I the skids room (SD4, SD2, DDstb11m) and I went to check on them. SD4 snatched a toy from DD right in front of me... but she had no idea I knew. I immediately removed her from playing and asked her why she was taking toys from her sisters when she had toys in her hands. I told her I watched her take it from DD and that she knew it was against the rules to take stuff from her sister. Well, she tried to tell me she didn't take the toy. Ok, I didn't ask her if she took the toy but she lied anyways. I didn't ask anymore questions I told her I knew the truth and because she both lied and snatched the toy away from her sister that she had to hold cans for 1 minute.
I stood her with her back against a wall, placed a can of green beans in each hand, made her lock her elbows and hold the cans at shoulder height. After about 20 sec she was balling telling me she didn't like it and it hurt her arms. My SO told her if she drops the cans her time starts over... needless to say she didn't drop the cans and she did not break any other rules that day. Let's see how it works today!!!
I feel a lot better about this punishment because I don't have to spank them, I'm not hitting them, and it is a punishment instead of just standing still which they don't seemto mind in the least. Will update more as they experience holding cans more!!!
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That also stops them from
That also stops them from forming ideas of revenge, since they are focussed on holding up the cans. Time outs really do just give them 'time' on their hands to foster ill feelings and plot revenge.
If they get too cocky about holding the green beans tell them that there are cans a size up from that!
Didn't think about them
Didn't think about them plotting on time out but it makes a lot of sense lol. Yeah SO thought about yam cans but they have small hands and the green beans work great so far.
Speechless...
Speechless... :jawdrop:
I don't know who gave you the
I don't know who gave you the can holding idea...but that's a little ridiculous.
I understand wanting kids to learn to be honest and to behave well. But these two little SDs are 4 and 2. As someone with a child development background that is probably one of the worst things I have heard.
I can understand the annoyance of kids who are older, maybe 10 or 11...but 2 and 4 years olds are still developing. Their brains are NO WHERE near done forming with right and wrong. These are the ages where they grab stuff and wrestle it out. It's not always a reason to punish.
Having 2 SDs that age who are so young...you also need to realize that they are very confused about their new situation.
My heart bleeds for kids who have gone through divorce and break-up at these ages. Sounds like you are just more irritated that they exist...
Believe me...I have a SD and I know they can annoy. I know punishments are necessary...but I see this one going very south...especially if there is a BM and she catches wind of you standing her kids against a wall with cans...weird...
Ah, thank you...I don't have
Ah, thank you...I don't have a child development background and thought maybe it was just ME thinking this was way beyond ridiculous. If these were my kids, I'd be beating the crap out of somebody. It's always the easy way out to punish a child and make the punishment something painful...that's what lazy parenting does. It takes a lot more to try to figure out a way without causing pain or harm for your kids to do what is right.
I too thought it sounded a
I too thought it sounded a little strange. I just don't punishment has to be 'pain'.
This idea is for a 2 and 4 yr
This idea is for a 2 and 4 yr old? Please Please Please do me a favor and get the book 1-2-3 magic. It is the best thing you can do for those children...
A FOUR year old?!?
:jawdrop:
A FOUR year old?!?
How is this against the law??
How is this against the law?? If you can. Find a law regarding this please send me the link. Because I completely disagree...
It is not against the law.
It is not against the law. grow up
LOL
LOL
I Know, its just you...I had
I Know, its just you...I had too
I couldnt resist...after all we have an audience on this topic I thought it would be funny.
Okay... first BM told me to
Okay... first BM told me to smack them in the mouth. Not doing that. Second they didn't go through a divorce, their parents were never together during either of their lifetimes. Third no other punishment works. This way they understand that they are being punished and they don't want to do it again. Its not a long time (30 sec for SD2 45 sec for SD4).
This si not a new situation and they know they did something wrong. I know because thhey tell me or their reaction when they get caught.
I got the idea from my SM. This was my bro and my punishment because she didn't believe in spanking and it worked wonders. The punishment isn't for pain, its so they remember the last punishment and follow the rules. Rules they do understand and follow mosst of the time.
I am not irritated they exist, but I'm not going o raise disobedient, horrible, lying, law breaking monsters either. I love these kids and they deserve to learn right from wrong and that there are consequences to their decisions. this way They understand their bad bahavior has consequences. Its not a pain thing its uncomfortable and hard but it helps me keep my temper in check and is a lot healthier than soe of my reactions in the past. No I'm not perfect, yes I have made mistakes and over-reacted, yes this keeps this from happening. I understand you don't all agree and that's fine but if this works then this is what I am going to do.
I do wonder why you (general) would think its a bad idea or so weird... do you have any other suggestions?? what works with your kids may not work with mine and vise versa. Its not abuse or anything close to it... just some character and muscle building.
I agree with finding a
I agree with finding a creative punishment, and I completely agree with you refusing to slap them in the mouth. With that being said, if social services were to walk in and see that, you would probably be waiving good bye to the kids as they removed them from your home with a quickness.
1-2-3 magic really is a great book for kids in that age group and it address the issues that you are having without spanking, hitting, or yelling. Give it a try, I read it in one night. Simple principles that are no nonsense and easy to apply.
I'm sorry but I don't
I'm sorry but I don't understand what is so bad about it... maybe instead of just saying its weird or whatever you guys can tell me why you thinks its so bad/should be illegal?? I don't see the problem personally but I would feel more comfortable if you told me why you think its so bad... and could understand your viewpoint.
My point. I know it makes her
My point. I know it makes her uncomfortable and its not easy but I don't do it for a half hour lol. And 5 min later she is lifting toys and playing like nothing happened... doesn't "hurt" its her way of saying it sucks!!!
Uuummm... not beating or
Uuummm... not beating or abusing them. I could... that's what BM wants me to do...
Call DCFS and ask them if it
Call DCFS and ask them if it is appropriate? I would say at their age and developmental points they will tell you no. Especially for the 2 yr old. And just because it was something our parents did when we were kids doesn't mean it would fly as appropriate punishment today!
Hell, my parents used to lock us out of the house in the summer and make us drink from a hose if we were thirsty. Can you imagine if I locked my kids out of the house today and refused to give them water?
I can't help but think that
I can't help but think that when they're older, they'll be armed.
that is because people over
that is because people over react and dont focus on the real issues. I was locked out side all summer, it was to get out and play. Now that is not okay, but it is okay to feed kids fast food and keep them indoors all day...to me that is child abuse, setting up a kid to be over weight and developing unhealthy habits is worse then sending them outside all day.
I am not saying that I don't
I am not saying that I don't agree with you. Parents need to take action with their kids and teach them right from wrong. However, most of us have to do this between 2 households, court systems, and crazy BMs. I would cover my bases...
There is no greater love a
There is no greater love a man will ever have as that love he has for his brother.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
HUH???
i don't think it's illegal,
i don't think it's illegal, unorthodox yes, but not illegal.
have you done the punishment yourself? were the soup cans full?
do it yourself, if it hurts you even a small amount it's too much for the kids. maybe have them hold an empty pop bottle can.
just the weight of their little arms out straight can hurt.
you can even make a game of it to find out their threshold of pain. (it should hurt some, agreed, but not torture) have a competition where they hold out their arms for as long as they can and you will get an idea of where they are at.
is she asking them to hold
is she asking them to hold their arms out straight and hold a full can of green beans?
that's how i read it. hold out your arms for a full min and tell me if that doesn't hurt? now put a can of green beans in both hands...is that one can for each hand or one can total?
maybe i read that wrong but that's what i visualized was happening. i don't think it's illegal but i
think it's excessive.
went back and reread this is what she's doing..."One can per hand, hands held out on level with their shoulders, for a period of time to correspond with their infraction."
2 cans of green beans. i'm serious...do it yourself and see how your adult muscles handle it!
Before I read your comment
Before I read your comment overworked, I did call CPS to ask. I am waiting for a call back. If it is illegal I won't do it... doubt its illegal. If not then holding cans theyb will!!! If it works it works. I appreciate the comments good and bad I just want them to grow up to be positive productive members of society rather than horrid criminals like many of the stories I read on here. Notbdoing it to hurt them but to teach them...
Just because something isn't
Just because something isn't illegal (and I don't know whether it is or not) doesn't mean it's the BEST thing. Spanking is legal. I happen to think spanking sends the wrong message. What will happen when they're too big to catch and throw over my knee?
The 1-2-3 Magic book or the Love and Logic books are really good resources.
love and logic books are
love and logic books are great too!
^^ I think Bookish nailed it.
Okay I just gotoff the phone
Okay I just gotoff the phone with CPS and after talking for 20 min or so she told me that although not a common punishment that there is nothing wrong with it and they would not remove the children or even really guive credence to any reports... therefore it is not considered abuse and not illegal.
The key with things like this is if it is EXCESSIVE or FOR THE EXPRESS PURPOSE TO CAUSE PHYSICAL HARM. Please do your research before calling something illegal.
Not trying to sound bitchy
Not trying to sound bitchy lol. It sounded that way when I reread it. But I got a little worried... enough to call CPS and ask. I just ask that if you are going to say something is against the law to have a link to show where the info is coming from. Thanks.
Why don't you instead call
Why don't you instead call the police and tell them that you didn't cook for your husband and when he came home, he made you stand by the wall with two cans of vegetables in each of your hands until your arms hurt. Then he allowed you to go on about your day. I wonder what the police would say if it was a WOMAN who complained about it. If my husband caught me doing that, I'd be by the wall holding the darn cans myself.
I don't understand this
I don't understand this attack... obviously what you and your husband find appropriate and what we find appropriate is different but why the attack?? I get you don't agree... but do you have to be snarky about it?? I was under the impression this site was for venting and support not to attack one another. A little disappointed to be honest. I welcome disagreeing comments but not attacks like this...
This ranks right up there
This ranks right up there with putting hot sauce in a kid's mouth.
Crazy, crazy, crazy
I wasn't under the impression
I wasn't under the impression that punishments were supposed to be fun fun time. I thought punishments were supposed to teach a child that the action was wrong and make them not want to do it again. I guess according to many of your opinions I should hug and love the kids when they hit one another or throw tantrums... oh I know, I'll show them how to punch each other so it really hurts!!! Or show them which toys really fly when they throw them at each other... and then rearm them after they throw it. Maybe give them candy when they lie?? That should work wonders!!!
After all punishing them in a way they understand and remember and don't like is horrible lazy parenting... sheesh.
I wasn't under the impression
I wasn't under the impression that punishments had to involve physical pain.
That is such a violent sport.
That is such a violent sport. You mind as well buy them BB guns! :jawdrop:
damn you got me I am a
damn you got me I am a colorist.
nope, I hate everyone equally
nope, I hate everyone equally but different
Alright, now I have a girl
Alright, now I have a girl crush on you Ommy!
Sarcasm, of course...
Sarcasm, of course...
Now THIS I like. Is the toy
Now THIS I like. Is the toy one of the kid's?
now I like this, that way
now I like this, that way they see the toy being donated and will relate that to them being mean.
This really is a great idea!!
This really is a great idea!!
How does giving away a toy
How does giving away a toy equate with lying?? I get it could work for throwing/snatching/hitting with toys but not sure if it would work for lying which is our #1 problem right. Now
they lie about that type of
they lie about that type of incident. If you know it happens why set them up to lie, you know they will, if you guys witness misconduct correct it without allowing them to lie, dont let them explain.
If Susie is playing alone in her room, and johnny runs in and rips a toy out of her hand, you see it, dont ask johnny what happen, you know he will lie, punish him for taking the toy.
I think most of us are saying
I think most of us are saying that it doesnt fit the crime, and we arent attacking her, trying to offer some suggestions, and other ways to go about it. No one is saying that she is a horrible person, or how dare she.
Me too...
Me too...
I used to drink the plastic
I used to drink the plastic yellow lemon juice things! I loved them.
i agree msmd.. good grief,
i agree msmd..
good grief, it's not like they are locking them in a dark closet/cage with no food or water.
so, it may hurt for a second. when you burn yourself on a hot surface, it hurts, but you damn sure learn not to touch that hot surface again real fast!
Like the cans! Not abusive
Like the cans! Not abusive like hot sauce (that's horrible imo)... Kids just plain hate consequences and if its uncomfortable enough perhaps they will learn by the 3rd incident and be respectable children/teens/adults.
I think it is great that
I think it is great that people care to raise responsible kids...that is just a little off sounding.
1-2-3 Magic by Thomas W. Phelan, Ph D. is an excellent book and recommended by many counselors.
Just remember that since these kids were never in a stable home with married parents, you cannot expect overnight success. They do not know what is normal.
Just think of it this way...would you want a SM doing this to YOUR child????? I would beat the crap outta anyone who tried that with my kid.
Her BM just slaps the kids in
Her BM just slaps the kids in the mouth for lying. They have taken a good step in trying to get creative to find a healthy solution.
vs. BM punching one skid &
vs. BM punching one skid & giving him (Dad's fav) a black eye while fighting w/his twin (Mom's fav). NICE! And next time they fight, swin (Mom's fav) knocks his twin (Dad's fav) unconscious on their bday. No consequences other than all go to Emergency Room ending their bday party.
I might make my 10 year old
I might make my 10 year old hold cans.But i probably wouldn't have done it in his earlier years.I've never been one for spanking or time out either. I don't judge those who tap their kid on the behind if they do something really wretched and I certainly can't say I judge someone who is at their wits end with an unruly toddler,holding cans isn't something i'd label abusive but that's just me and we know what they say about opinions;-)
More often I find myself trying to get to the reason for my son's behavior rather than trying to punish him for it.I feel if I can understand the reason I can work toward helping him not make the mistake again and finding a better way to handle himself.
oh of course...with a small
oh of course...with a small child you get the blank face and quick lie or the shoulder shrug/i don't know runaround.can be extremely frustrating.
i love em when they're little but i didn't really start enjoying my son til he was old enough to converse with me and understand the things I was saying to him.Little ones are a joy in their own special way don't get me wrong but they are frustrating and often infuriating little people! lol
Wow... I actually read ALL of
Wow... I actually read ALL of the comments because it was THAT entertaining.
I don't agree with the method for that age of a child. Maybe when they are older...maybe double digits in age it would be a different story. But to me, they are too young for that. I also don't agree with slapping their mouth for lying. My kids were punished with being sat in a corner, or having priviledges taken away. It works just fine in my house.
I can appreciate that OP is trying to get creative. I just don't agree with the particular punishment.
If my 10 year old threw
If my 10 year old threw ANYTHING at me.... I would say that there is more of a problem than just lying.
I haven't had a lot of issues with lying with my kids, so I am not sure what I would do if the "time out" didn't suffice. I just think this is inappropriate for a 4 year old. Just MHO. That's all..
Never thought about it like
Never thought about it like that. I wish I would have read this article 6 years ago!!
I think you need to reread
I think you need to reread some of my comments. I did call CPS and was completely honest and descriptive of what I was doing and was told it is NOT child abuse. I understand disagreeing with my methods but I don't agree with an outright attack of calling me an abuser. But everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
Personally, I've lived
Personally, I've lived through raising my son and 2 daughters. They were angels.. he was a total hellion. Strong willed is not even the right word.
I had to fight him to keep him in a time out. Spankings didn't matter to him. Taking his toys was no big deal.
I wish that I had thought of the cans 20 years ago!
Of course, he might have just thrown them at me!!
For those of you that are so quick to judge, I'm pretty ashamed of you.
We are all in agreement that children must be disciplined. This does not strike me as abusive in the least. The kids aren't holding giant cans of beans for 4 hours!!! Geesh! Get a grip.
I wasn't upset with your
I wasn't upset with your comment. Actually didn't get upset at all till someone told me to call the cops on myself. I understood where you came from I was just thinking you could link me to your info as I am not trying to abuse my kids at all. Spankings and time outs do not work for my kids. Doesn't faze them in the least so I needed to find something else. I get where you are coming from and I wasn't mad... hope I didn't come off that way lol. You are ina difficult position as a foster parent (that is what you do, right??) And I commend you for doing so. I know those of us that have been in the foster system can be royally screwed up lol. My blog today wasn't centered on you specifically.
Well I used to have my ass
Well I used to have my ass caned when I was badly behaved or get sent to bed without dinner, of couse that is abuse now, yet I love my parents deeply and owe them a great debt, because they have raised me with a deep respect for others, every child is different, every punishment should be different, the state of decay within society now, is due to guilt/soft parenting, so shoot me if you want to, but Im with overwhelmed.