What A Long Strange Trip It’s Been
Writing for me is cathartic, so this is probably going to run long. It helps me get all the thoughts in my mind down in print so I can somehow make sense of things. But this experience of being married a second time to someone that puts her grown children’s happiness above our marriage is something I cannot make sense of.
When we first met, each of us said how much we felt the other was our soul mate and that we were destined to find one another. The chemistry was imeadiate and connections were many and deep. It didn’t take long to fall in love and even my friends that have known me 50 years said I “was back”, meaning they saw the happiness return to me after many long years.
My two BD (22and 24 at the time) accepted this new person with open arms and loving kindness. One of my soon to be wife’s sons (24 at the time) was equally welcoming. The daughter (22 at the time was cautious) and the oldest son (28 at the time) had serious reservations. First red flag.
We dated for some time and they slowly seemed to warm to me and be happy for their mom. Then I proposed. The oldest son said “It’s too soon”, like it was any of his business. Over the next year the contempt for me began to show more often and in bigger and bolder demands. I told my soon to be wife if he was not happy for us, he should skip the wedding. But it was a week at a beach house on the ocean, so of course he came. He actually walked away from the ceremony in the middle as if to say to everyone that he did not approve.
Just 6 weeks after our wedding, he went off on a 20 minute, profanity riddled, tyrate calling me every derogatory term he could think of. I’m a lesbian? Really? This kid has some serious issues to work out. All I did was love his mother and pledge my life to her.
The next nine months are spent supporting my DW to try to reconnect to 1) see her grandson (she was denied visitation) and 2) try to set some healthy boundaries where she let him know it’s not alright to talk to anyone like that, but especially her husband. The first part worked, but the second part is not something she is able to do.
Putting your marriage as the top priority is a core value for me. We all have difficult things we have to do and we do them because they are the right things to do. Her inability to do this has made me wonder if she loves me enough to keep going. Notice I did not ask if she loves me more, that’s not a fair question.
I do wonder if she is even able to put our marriage as the top priority in her life. I’m not saying to ignore her kids, but rather stand up for herself and for our marriage. I think she is afraid that saying no to any of them will mean they stop loving her.
Here is where all of this gets flipped onto me. She has said I am putting conditions on her and want her to deliver an ultimatum to her kids. I have detached from them and told her to spend as much time, as often as she wants. My only “condition” is I want 3 days out of the year; my birthday, her birthday, and Christmas. If we have plans, I would prefer not to cancel them. That’s 362 Days to do whatever she wants.
Looking at this as objectively as I can, they have put conditions on her that I am not allowed anywhere near them. I’m good with that because I see them for who they really are and prefer to do anything else rather than see them. And in doing what they have with their conditions, they have given her an ultimatum in that if she wants to see them, it will have to be without me.
I ssked if she still loves me and she said yes. I asked if she still want to be married to me and again she said yes. I suggested we go to counseling to help deal with the pain on both sides. She says “she would, but it’s not really her thing”. She also said she feels like I am just looking for someone to agree with me. That tells me that deep inside she knows what is going on is wrong and her inability to deal with it is also wrong. I would love to help her, but this is her circus and the monkeys are running the show.
I have made up my mind to separate and tell her to find other living arrangements, but haven’t pulled the trigger on that just yet. I don’t see any other outcome.
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SoDisappointed, sending you
SoDisappointed, sending you much strength to you during this time. I just wanted to comment on some things that you mentioned.
"Her inability to do this has made me wonder if she loves me enough to keep going."
I think that she does love you but perhaps not enough to stand up to her children and set healthy boundaries. At this moment she doesn’t love you the way you want & need to be loved. You are both grown individuals with adult children and have the right to marry and be happy. If her children can’t set their own selfish needs and thoughts aside, she has a big problem. She will never be happy if she continues living for them.
"She has said I am putting conditions on her and want her to deliver an ultimatum to her kids."
I don’t understand how she feels you deserving respect and having a healthy marriage with boundaries is placing conditions. You both took vows not conditions. This alone shows me that she needs counseling and the fact that she thinks “it’s not her thing” says a lot. Whether it’s her thing or not, if there is a chance it may save her marriage, why not? She has to ask herself why she’s not willing to put forth that effort to make it work and get to the root of the problem. Unfortunately, this is not something you can do for her. She has to want this.
"My only “condition” is I want 3 days out of the year; my birthday, her birthday, and Christmas. If we have plans, I would prefer not to cancel them. That’s 362 Days to do whatever she wants."
You are her HUSBAND, you shouldn’t be SETTLING for 3 days out of the year. You are her partner, equal, protector, lover, friend. You are not fighting her on spending time with her children but you DESERVE respect and you’re not asking for a lot but some human decency. It makes me question how were these young adults raised? To completely “ghost” someone that only wants to love and protect their mother completely boggles my mind.
"She also said she feels like I am just looking for someone to agree with me."
This is counseling, not about who is going to agree with who. Therapist/Counselors are usually neutral when it comes to these situations. It’s about addressing underlying issues that may not be in the forefront or bring awareness to certain things. Giving you tools to deal with life issues. I’m curious to know about her upbringing and why she seems to lack a backbone to stand up for herself and you as her H.
With all that being said you have done all you could. Perhaps a separation may help in bringing things into perspective for her or it may show you that you made the best possible choice given the circumstances. Life is short to live in uncertainty. To live not feeling loved and supported by the very person you pledged your life to. Like my mom use to tell me “you can do bad, all by yourself”. Wishing you much strength, peace, and clarity.
Siempre
Thanks
All very valid points, and I have thought of each of these on my own. As I said, writing it out helps me organize my thoughts and feelings, and then look at where I am, what I have sacrificed, and if I am able to move forward with that. Right now, I am not. I have setup what are some very reasonable boundaries that she should be able to deal with. I know the time without being around her kids has been better for me, and with gskids in the mix, I know she wants to see them. She can explain to them why they never see me or visit. They are not my grandkids.
I do deserve respect from my wife and won’t stay married without it. I am ready to separate if she cannot commit because I would rather move on with my life without her than live my life compromising my core values. Been there, done that. Never again.
Separation
Does not need to lead to divorce. Creating separate households can provide a "time-out," a space for each spouse to pursue their passions & priorities freely. It can give each a bit of breathing space to re-evaluate how they wish to live the next 40 years of Life.
The knee-jerk reaction to discussions to separation seem to be a highly volatile, divorce-preparation, you-never-loved-me style of communication. If you can ease past that reaction, you may discover that this is exactly the move needed for clarification.
DW's comment that counseling is "not her thing," I find laughable and telling. Introspection and self-awareness are skills that adults master. The willingness to reach out to others for perspective, or tools, or resources for help is also the mark of an adult. Mechanics, doctors, plumbers, counselors all exist for a reason.
There are several folk here on the board who maintain separate households and live rich, committed lives with our partners. Relationships do not need to look the exact same to have value.
I agree 100%
I look at separation as a time out of sorts to cool down and clear your mind. A time for introspection and evaluation of what is important in your life. What are your core values that you cannot compromise. Marriage is a series of ups and down with disappointments and compromises. What can be compromised and what cannot?
Every situation is different. If two people care about one another, and I mean truly care, they should be able to find a way to at least try to work things out. Even if it means going to counseling when “it’s not your thing”. That tells me she doesn’t want to try.
This is such a bummer. I
This is such a bummer. I keep thinking because the kids are older in my situation things will be great just my bf and I as empty-nesters.
Your scenario is causing me heartburn. It's the same no matter what age the steps are.
In your story all I hear is jealousy on the oldest sons' part. Why can't these kids let their parents be happy and stay the F*ck out of it!??? What are they so afraid of? Do they think we will try to take their inheritance or their parents love us more than them? I just can't understand this line of thinking.
How hard is it for her to say to OSS "respect my husband in my house."
I agree that people put their kids first before the marriage, and it's a huge mistake, especially grown kids. Couples have to be a unified front and back each other up. In extreme cases I see where that's not plausible, but for a grown ass man to walk away from your wedding and tell everyone his opinion is utter BS! That little stunt was pure jealousy and disrespect for you and his mother. If I was his mother I would think long an hard about the mistakes I made parenting him, and not include him in the future.
I agree
But it’s “not as cut and dry as that” is what I am told. This is pure selfishness on his part. Being NPD doesn’t help matters because his toxic rhetoric has poisoned the well. Now all three are chiming in and making my wife’s life a living hell. She cries that she is “stuck in the middle”, but it’s because she put herself there. She is afraid to tell them to get out of our marriage and their behavior is not acceptable.
Not my problem. I didn’t raise them. She just didn’t teach them to respect her and how to behave in an adult world where social interaction is supposed to be at least civil. They need a parent and not a best friend. I know the NPD 30SS views himself as the alpha male of the family and feels threatened by me. Fine. Be the alpha in your home. He is not welcome here because I refuse to put up with that BS in my home.
She's tired of being in the
She's tired of being in the middle??? Than do her the favor and don't even make that an option, since she doesn't have the backbone to stand up for herself and her marriage you do it instead.
Not my circus, not my monkey
His NPD issues are his and that’s her kid, not mine. I didn’t raise him and have nothing to do with correcting a 30 year old little boy. That all belongs to my wife. She raised that man child and forgot to teach him respect for her and for others. I have nothing to do with it. I didn’t create this and I’m not going to fix it. If he comes around me and starts up, I will have no problem telling him he is out of line
The real question is can she put her marriage as her first priority? Not abandon or not see her socially inept son. She should see him, but not let him dictate all the conditions. He needs a parent. I’m not taking anything from him. An infant needs their mother. I am telling her to go as often and for as long as she needs. But don’t come back and tell me that I am making her feel guilty. I didn’t create the situation and I am giving everyone what they asked for. So they can all take responsibility for their actions and stop trying to shift the blame on me.
OK NPD is a whole other ball
OK NPD is a whole other ball of wax. They cannot be reasoned with and no one can have a meaningful relationship with them. NO ONE! It's all about them and their need for attention supply. He will suck your wife dry of every ounce of emotion to get the attention he needs and when she's had enough he will move on to the next victim. They will do everything in their power to make people believe that you are a bad person with their manipulation and perfectly planned tactics.
My sister is NPD and I finally had enough of her 6 years ago and went complete 'no contact.' It's been a freeing experience and I rarely think about her at all, and when I do it's with indifference. I should have known when you said he left in the middle of your wedding - classic NPD...LOOK AT ME
Exactly
I have done a ton of reading about NPD. I expect nothing, and I mean NOTHING to change. Why should it. He’s perfect in his eyes and everyone else has to change to his demands.
I have been 100% no contact for 9 months, but only truly disengaged for a little less than 2 weeks. I accept he is what he is. And what he is NOT is my problem. That mess belongs to his mother.
My issue is can she put our marriage as the priority in her life? Or will his controlling behavior take away any chance for her to have a life of her own? Only she can answer that question.
Love your reference to the Grateful Dead
I love this and feel like I too have been on this crazy train. You are not wrong for feeling like a second class citizen in your marriage. My DH has a 28SD that wants to control her " family" first stance at my expense. This means leaving me at home for holidays and special events. However I choose not to participate due to the history of her manipulation.lies and poisoning against me. You deserve to break free of this dysfunctional mess. I'm here to tell you that after 10 years it has not gotten better.
I expect no change
As for better... I would like to think that my wife and I could have our marriage separate from the crazy family she has raised. But she would need to commit the the marriage is her priority. Again, she can see them as often and for as long as she wants, without me. But they need to get the F#ck out of our marriage. Would it be ok to bring in an old girlfriend that I used to date and go see her on holidays? No? Didn’t think so.
Our marraige is a sacred space. We both said “no third party” allowed. And that’s exactly where we are, me, her, and her family. Not going to do it!
Exactly the same situation
I’ve been in exactly the same situation but with stbxdh. We have now split after 15 months of marriage due to his inability to stop putting his 26 ur old daughter a priority and lying about finances . Feel much happier now they are gone
Soon to be me
I see no other outcome other than separation.
So.....
I read your post and read it again. I can't find where you are being unreasonable at all. I do know that if my grown son acted that way at my wedding, I would have an issue with his behavior and would look to him to make amends to all. (If I didn't kill him right then lol) Holidays are weird animals for some. But realistically as kids get older and have their own families, the actual day becomes less important for us. We get together when it works. You seem to have given a lot of flexibility with that. Your wife can only be put in the middle if she wants to be. I'm sure she wants everyone to get along, as I'm sure you do, but today not everyone does. I wish you the best as it is very hard stuff. You might want to go to counseling for you - it could help you.