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Baptism update

Lady.Tremaine's picture

So better and / or worse than expected

We get there and we had thought this was like the whole Pre-K class ( sd4 goes to Pre-K at this church)

Nope! It's a sermon. Only SD4 is getting the baptism. Just the Saturday congregation. And BM is wearing a pink mini angora sweater dress with no bra ! Stay classy.

We come in and there's maybe 25 people and BM has us FRONT and center. Yikes. There goes the escape plan.

BM to DH " so will you be up with SDs and I for the words ?"

DH: ugh what's normal ?

BM: both of us should go up

DH: ok

I am shooting him daggers but luckily I've taken Aniki's advice to look classy and good for any BM events. ( Ok she's never said it to me but she says it a lot and I keep it in mind)

I'm extremely formal and the pastor's are introduced to me as DH's wife. That averted some awkwardness and in a way "here's the upgrade'

They start the song bit ( this is one of those modern churches with Christian Rock. SD7 is dumbfounded. Clearly not into the whole church thing. Me and DH smile at her and giggle because we are feeling how she is awkward in the situation.

BMs oldest sneaks in after the songs right on time for the water boarding. Now this- this part broke my heart 

The pastor asks for SD4s family to come over. I stay as I for sure as shiz do not want to be up there. Her son stands to come over but BM sits him down. 

Literally why? Your other daughter is there so is this just some weird nuclear family photo op? My husband has known her eldest since he was 8 so I'm unsure why she did that. He's been having some issues lately and I can't believe how tone deaf this woman can be

Regardless me and the eldest trade silent sniggers as DH promises to be a member of the church ( hahahaha) and raise SD in god

Immediately after that the girls are taken to the kid area which we were not aware was happening. Eldest sneaks off as he needs to go "back to work" ( uh huh - jealous of you kid)

We sit through a sermon hilariously focused on marriage. The pastor insulted the Israelites which made my Jewish raised husband blood start to boil. Luckily he had a coffee cup to play with. 

Communion starts and we high tail it. 

I'm pretty sure the rest of the church did not appreciate us being there as DH was whispering alternative lyrics to the songs to me and I was definitely a fish out of water. I told DH to text the eldest just to say hi to make sure he's feeling good after BM treated him not the best.

Welp I have beer and I plan on getting toasty and hoping to Christ ( pun intended) we never have to go back.

 

Comments

steppingback's picture

You should have stayed home. No matter how well you dressed, your derisive attitude did was not hidden by it. You went into their church to do this. This wasn't on the street or outside your house. You invaded their space. Your description of your families' behavior does not do you credit. Next time do everyone a favor and stay home.

tog redux's picture

I think it would have been fine for DH to say no, this doesn't sit right with me, and refuse to go entirely. He doesn't have to go along with every cockamamie decision BM makes. 

Lady.Tremaine's picture

I agree  with you but I do understand why he did it. Oddly that's something we both worked out together moving forward. He may not agree with how I feel on things but we've started talking more because he now understands he just has to .. understand? Not agree with me but just hear me out

It was pretty awkward. I do feel slightly bad being in their space but I had no clue this was what I was walking into. 

tog redux's picture

He also could have gone to watch but opted out of the actual participation because of his religion. That's really fine, they'd rather you not get up there and lie. And it's not as if he's going to be taking her to church there.

You said you understand why he did it - can you elaborate? It would have been reasonable for him to tell SD that he supports Mommy having her baptized there so he will go and watch, but he actually has a different religion (or none at all) and won't be participating in the ceremony.  That way she can understand different religions or that some people (many if not most young people now) have no religion at all.

CompletelyPuzzled's picture

It sounds like you and DH behaved like children. You went into the situation determined to make your disdain known. The better option would have been not to attend.  I doubt your DH would have been able to stop the baptism, even if he had refused to go along with it.  However, your DH can still help to shape SD's beliefs by offering her alternative beliefs and choices as she gets older. There was no need to go into a religious sanctuary and poke fun at it.

Lady.Tremaine's picture

I think somehow a lot of this situation flew over commenters heads

We were expecting a ceremony for her pre k class from the little  BM gave us. We had no clue this would be a full on sermon or we would not have agreed to come.

We did the best to downplay the situation and I apologize to folks who seem to be offended. I don't think smiling and having a giggle ( hell half the church did as SD4 was acting like well  .. a 4 year old the whole time ) would be that offensive

DH did not huff over comments made about his family's religion. I can read his body language and know when some irks him though and that definitely did.

Otherwise besides the baptism itself we were quiet and respectful. Out of our element but not sniggering during the sermon at all. We left early to avoid anything worse.

If the kids ask questions I'm always happy to answer but I don't think BM should have gone through this without either fully explaining the situation or better yet having a conversation about how to go about religion with the kids. If they want to be nuns at 18 they have my support but DH and I do hope to have a sit down once they actually understand the Jesus concept to go into why while we don't agree with it they have a freedom to decide.

 

Edit : DH making the dumb song jokes was childish . I did a small foot tap telling him to knock it off.

still learning's picture

We were expecting a ceremony for her pre k class from the little  BM gave us.

DH needs to establish his own line of commuincation with SD's teachers/leaders. He is relying on mom to be in charge of it all and give him details then he has the audacity to complain that he didn't know what it entailed.  Perhaps the two of you should, especially DH should quit acting like children and be be a responsible, involved parent to his kid.  

steppingback's picture

You embarrassed yourself.  You were rude. You should have stayed home or at least controlled yourselves. The people at the church knew nothing of your issues. They didn't deserve your intrusion.

Lady.Tremaine's picture

"besides the baptism itself we were quiet and respectful. Out of our element but not sniggering during the sermon at all. We left early to avoid anything worse."

I am open to advice and judgement on here . I will admit at my husband being childish at points. I will admit to smiling and giggling at a 4 year old acting silly getting water drenched on her. Had I known what exactly was to happen I would have stayed. But I kept my promise to my stepkids. They were happy to see me and I helped a troubled teen out of a numbing situation by making him smile and laugh a bit. 

So while I regret it and yes- trust me feel like a di-- for telling my husband this was a good idea , for promising the kids we'd go I did not make the a$$ of myself I thought I may have. 

As my father said to me after our phone call today 

" He better be taking you somewhere after because us ( last names) don't do well in church "

I tried. 

 

lieutenant_dad's picture

OP, I get your frustration in this situation, and this being your first real dive into BSC religious stuff, why you and DH were on the backfoot and behaved as such.

BM here has the boys in a backwards community church. When I was trying to get along with BM, I went to 1 sermon. It was around the 4th of July, and the sermon topic was "freedom". This is important to note, because somehow, this two-bit snake oil sales, man of the cloth weaved in AIDS is punishment (except, specifically, for those poor raped girls in Africa - he didn't want anyone to think he was coldhearted I guess), the "homosexuals" are going to Hell for their fake marriages, and the HPV vaccine causes premarital sex (that one led DH to ask about the boys' vaccination records). To say steam was streaming out of my ears is an understatement, and I'm sure the look on my face said a whole, whole lot.

DH has made it ABUNDANTLY clear to BM that he won't participate in any baptisms or other formal indoctrination into church. He'll go when the boys perform at Christmas, but he winces during the sermon portions. He'll go to fundraisers for specific trips the boys are going on IF he agrees (there was a mission trip to Haiti that BM wanted OSS to go on, and he said absolutely not since international mission work is BS 95% of the time). Once, BM dropped off baby bottles that you were supposed to collect coins in for the local crisis pregnancy center. I'm very pro-choice, and I'm not about to give a dime to a place that lies to their clients.

Point is, BM KNOWS well enough that DH doesn't agree. She KNOWS how he reacts (usually with as straight a face he can make, but will answer honestly if someone answers him). If she doesn't want DH involved, she doesn't have to invite him (or the boys don't). Your BM knew DH is Jewish. She knew he wasn't Presbyterian. She knew she was doing something that he wouldn't agree with, but she did it anyway and invited DH. 

Should you and DH been respectful of the people there? Sure, but a snigger isn't the end of the world. I'd have not cared about my behavior after the political comment about Isreal. Use the pulpit to preach love or shut up. If you don't use it to preach love, then don't expect a loving reaponse in return. I also question the authenticity of any church who baptises children without talking to BOTH parents first IF both parents are going to be agreeing on the baptism. Especially if the other parent had never been there before and there was no previous conversation with that parent about their want and ability to raise a child in Christ. In my opinion. The religious leader of that church isn't worth the price of the robes they wear as a holy man if he didn't bother to even make sure that all parties were comfortable. He put your DH in a position to lie, and that's unfair to anyone visiting your church. Very poor form.

Overall, nothing about this event was holy and spiritual, and BM put DH in a no-win situation. If he didn't go, he's helping BM alienate the kids. If he does go, he is put in an uncomfortable position of lying. He should have told BM that he would attend in support but wouldn't participate, but in the heat of the moment when you already feel uneasy, it's easy to see why it happens. BM shined a spotlight on you all, knowing full well that this isn't your family's scene, and everyone got to see "the warts". Too bad.

Lady.Tremaine's picture

I wasn't going to reply because I did say previously I would end the convo but thank you . I was up all night with guilt of what i could have done better. Finally going to rest and maybe this afternoon after some hard reflection I can figure out how to handle this stuff in the future.

Livingoutloud's picture

I stopped reading after “DH was whispering alternative lyrics to the song”. And the whole church heard it. And all this giggling. And they didn’t appreciate it. No kidding!  I can’t even... I am Jewish, but I attend all kind of events in churches due to having Christians in my family and Christian friends. I can’t even imagine. Adults behave in this manner, wow. 

BM maybe isn’t wearing a bra but you two lacked class completely. If you aren’t in support of the event or this particular church, there are other classier ways to conduct yourself. It doesn’t need to be “one’s scene” to behave appropriately 

lieutenant_dad's picture

No one behaved appropriately in this. The church shouldn't baptise children when BOTH parents aren't in agreement, and especially not when they have never even met or talked to the other parent. Don't offer convenience store religious services if you want to be treated with the respect of a surgeon. Don't go on political diatribes if you want to be respected as a religously leader for a religion that teaches loving thy neighbor. 

If BM *really* took it that seriously, she would have either had a conversation with her XH about it OR not involved him. If this were truly about saving SD's soul or whatever other belief BM has in baptism, then she'd give it the honor and respect it deserves - not blindside the father of her children with something she KNOWS he doesn't believe AND cannot support being a Jewish man.

It was a farce start to finish. OP and her DH could have been more respectful, but this was just a silly show. Noone took it seriously. If they did, it would have been a much more formal occasion for all involved.

Livingoutloud's picture

Dad had to call the church like it was suggested and make an inquiry what’s the event about and prepare accordingly. He could arrive early and talk to a pastor.  If he wasn’t informed in a timely manner he could opt for not attending. 

Everyone else behaving like idiots doesn’t give me a permission to behave just the same 

It’s not a good idea for SM claim to be an upgrade and so much better than BM but then act just the same or worse. Behaving better and act better makes one an upgrade, not how one looks or how one is dressed  

 

beebeel's picture

"Convenience store religious services" sums it up! Having been raised extremely religious, I do know that when a church "baptizes" a child so young, the ceremony is always centered on the parents bringing them up in the faith. Many of these ceremonies have the parents making oaths/promises. Any church official willing to baptize such a young child without at least speaking to both parents is ...well...laughable. 

beebeel's picture

I'm not religious, so I am going to defend you here and say this pearl clutching is a little ridiculous. It's not like you were talking loudly and kicking your muddy boots up on the Pew in front of you. 

The super religious type who condemns someone for giggling in church is probably beating his wife and kids. Sorry, I just find most of them so hypocritical it's hard to find much sympathy for the person wringing their hands over a little giggling.

mro's picture

I AM religious, and I agree with you.  Sacraments such as baptism are taken much more seriously by clergy, in my experience.  I don't understand why DH was asked to participate and to make vows he was clearly not comfortable with.  I can see him and OP being invited to observe, if they chose, knowing DH was of a different religion, or not practicing any particular faith, but not take part in the ceremony, if they were not going to take an active role in the child's religious instruction.  This whole event sounds like a lack of communication.  

And the anti-Jewish comments - really?  They aren't appropriate in any case, but if both parents had been interviewed, as is usually done, the pastor would have known that, and maybe made the sermon more tailored to the different faiths?

Reminds me of a wedding I went to wnere the officiant went off on a tirade bashing divorce.  I'm talking fire and brimstone here.  I mean, he had to know, statistically there would be some divorced peop!e in the congregation, right?  And this was a UCC church, which are usually more tolerant than most.

beebeel's picture

Right? This pastor asked a man he's never even spoken to before to promise to be a member of the church. I've never heard of this before! If people want their religious rites to be respected by "outsiders," perhaps they should show more respect for the rituals themselves first...

But they gotta pay for those huge ass sound systems to blast their Christian rock services, so they gotta flip 10 to 12 baptism "ceremonies" a weekend at $50 to $200 a pop. But yeah...we "sinners" are the irreverent ones lol.

 

notarelative's picture

What happened happened. It's time to think of how to act in the future when blindsided for events. Not just religious events, but all the school and sport events the future will bring.

I wouldn't worry too much about religious events. BM may stay with this denomination or she may change to another, but baptism is baptism and is usually good from one church to another and not redone (yes there are theological exceptions, but they are not common). If BM stays with this church the next significant religious event (confirmation) is years away. You have plenty of time to decide how to deal with it. 

BM is going to take them to church (or not) on her time. DH and you are not going to (or are going to) take them to church on his time. The kids will be fine. They will figure it out. My kids, from an intact marriage, with both parents moderately religious practicing, ended up one agnostic, one fervently religious.

Harry's picture

They know, they get non members at there events.  They get people of no or other religions.  This is just part of life.  Remember All those divorce people made the same promise , also all those people having affairs were standing ny you. 

Livingoutloud's picture

It’s not clergy’s responsibility to make sure dad is ok with religious upbringing of his kids. If dad had concerns, he could call the church and ask ahead of time. He could also tell pastor that he is in support of the ceremony but can’t make personal promises to raise his children in church as he isn’t even Christian.

If he chose to not address anything and just passively follow along then he should have been polite, at the very least, not making mockery of other people’s faith. Personaly I wouldn’t be able to make a promise to raise my child in Christian faith but I also would talk to pastor ahead of time and also would behave appropriately attending church, regardless for what reason. 

bananaseedo's picture

I was raised religious, my parents were pastors/missionaries.  I stayed in the faith up until about 5-8 years ago when things drastically changed for me and my views.  I do not agree at all anymore with organized religion.  I find a lot of stuff I found normal then to make me cringe and find it very uncomfortable today. I would honestly classify myself as a Deist today. 

That said, regardless of how much eye rolling would be going on in my head today to sit through a sermon -say I had a baptism of a friend/family (which I did recently)-I will act with the utmost respect as to not insult others.  No reason for it. I agree, you can't claim you stay classy and bm didn't and then both you and him acted this way...also showing the kids disrespect of others and their beliefs.