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Dual citizens/passports?

MJL2010's picture

Step talkers of dual citizenship, who have kids who are eligible to choose their citizenship when they come of age: MUST said children maintain passports of both countries throughout their childhoods? BM takes skids to UK several times each year (because hey, who cares that she's bankrupt and in foreclosure and in arears on her taxes- her children must have the richness of experience that travel provides, no matter the cost!), and she has asked DH to split cost of their UK passport renewal. Is this something they NEED to have? They have USA passports and he has no issue contributing toward renewal of those when the time comes (though when he asks her for them she will continue to deny him!).
I want to know if she wants them to have current UK ones just for the "fabulous factor" or if they truly need them. I also want to know if we should get one for DS4, so that we don't screw his choice to declare British Citizenship when he's old enough.
Thanks for your advice!!

Comments

Last In Line's picture

You really need to get legal advice on this matter as opposed to just asking internet people. Especially as it relates to your own child and his possibly "declaring" British Citizenship when that's an option. My understanding is that you don't just declare one, you have to renounce US citizenship, and that is costly.

MJL2010's picture

I intend to, LIL, but since it's Saturday and we are traveling I thought I'd start here, where several fellow STers have probably had experience with this matter. Thanks for your advice. This just came up in conversation after a particularly brutal week, and it is something I had never even considered before- nor had DH.

oneoffour's picture

OK, my kids and I are from a Commonwealth country (NZ) and live in the USA. My daughter has 2 US-born children with her USA husband and her USA ex-boyfriend. She can get them NZ citizenship and passports because she is their mother. But primarily they are US citizens.

So if my daughter got her kids NZ passports only and they travelled to NZ they would just walk in. Coming back to the USA would be totally different. They would have to prove they are American citizens by having a US passport as well.

So if your skids are living in the USA and are travelling to the UK they would only need a US passport to get into the UK and and then to get back into the USA.

So no. they do not need 2 passports. BM can carry their English citizenship documentation with her. If it belongs to DH then he can give her a notarised copy but not the original. Or you may want to take her to court to clarify that any passports for minor children will be kept by a GAL until the children are 16 yrs old. Each parent must apply to the GAL for release of the passports. The GAL will check into the terms of the court order whether he/she will release the passport or not. This way neither parent can withold the passport for selfish reasons. And it will cost the parent who wants the passport.

Having a passport for your son is not required for citizenship (lots of US citizens do not have passports). However I would get his English citizenship issue cleared up now and keep the documentation secure.

PS: You can have dual citizenship. The USA don't like it but they cannot force you to give up any citizenship. It helps if you are from a USA ally country like England or NZ Wink

kathc's picture

Matters of citizenship/dual citizenship very depending on the exact countries involved. I know there's a listing on the internet of different countries and their requirements so I'm sure if you did a google search you could find it.

There was one I was looking into since I'd been told I met the requirements and, while I did, the age to apply was by 25 years old. So, no go on that because I'm well over 25. There was nothing on that one about having had dual citizenship as a child...you simply had to meet all the requirements (it pertained to your parents coming from that country during certain years---it was basically to allow people who's parents were pushed out due to a war to return as full citizens) to be granted citizenship and then apply by 25.

Anyway, first try a google search for your specifics. Then, once you have that as a basic idea try contacting the consulate to verify that the information is correct.

moeilijk's picture

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BethAnne's picture

Check with the contries involved. My understanding is that as a child of a British citizen they will always have the right to a British passport and to claim british citizenship. The U.K. Has no requirement to hold a passport by its citizens. Not having a British passport does not invalidate a claim to citizenship but I suppose it might be harder to prove citizenship without it, though an expired passport might be good proof. The U.K. Government has no issues with dual nationality, they do not mind if you are also a citizen of other nations. Some other nations may declare that you cannot be dual citizens to be a citizen of their country.

As a uk citizen living abroad if I have kids I would want to get them British passports so that I can make travel with them easier so that we can go through the same passport lines and so that if I were to ever return to life in the uk that bit of paperwork would already be sorted. It would also give them the option of living in the uk when they are adults if they wanted and it is also important for me to pass on my culture and nationality to my children. Living in a foreign country can make ties back home stronger and certainly trips to visit home are important for sanity and family ties, whatever you may think you know of her finances. Although you may think her wanting her children to have the same passport as her is a fabulous extravigance, apart from ease of logistics, I think that it can be an important acknowledgement of their culture and their ties to the uk. There is a large psychological factor of belonging and maintenance of tradition.

As I recall children's passports in the uk have to be changed every 5 years and children need their own passports and cannot travel on their parents passports. Adult passports last 10 years. There is some expense involved but it is not extortionate especially when halved. If I were you I would stay out of this argument. If your husband is happy to pay let him. If he wants to ask for an exchange and ask BM to let him take the kids abroad when he wants or to halve the cost of renewing upcoming American passports then let him negotiate that. Of course if your husband refuses to pay BM can pay for it in full herself if she wants.

The other thing to check is if it is legal to enter the uk on a non British passport when you are a British citizen. I know in the USA you must declaim your American passport when entering the country if you are an American citizen. I do not know if that is the case in the uk.

As for your kid, do whatever you and your husband want, that is a decision for you two to make. Just as it is BM and your husbands decision about their kids passports.

Maxwell09's picture

Why not have her sign off on the USA passport in exchange for DH signing off on the UK passport. Go to the notary with letter written by each permitting the other the right to file for passports for their country, sign, exchange, get notify sign then and there then both sides have what they need to take care of business.

MJL2010's picture

Oneoffour et al, thank you. I wasn't terribly clear in my questions, and I threw in all sorts of extra info (like about BM }:) ) that may have muddied the water.

I of course intend to check tomorrow to make sure that

1. The skids NOT having UK passports will NOT mess up their chances of declaring UK citizenship when they come of age/
2. BM's wanting them to have these UK passports is for her convenience of travel/link to her family ONLY. When we travel with our whole family to UK, DS12 and DD10 are American citizens so we will need to go though as Americans- DH may choose to go through on his UK passport and they may or may not choose to let that expedite the process- only been through with him when it was me and DS4.

If she just wants these for her convenience or other novelty, DH has said that he has no intention of paying for one- extra cost for something unnecessary. She doesn't understand "want" vs "need" in terms of a seven-person family (or in terms of her own finances). If, however, their travel to UK on a US passport could be considered illegal, or if their future choice may be in jeopardy if they DON'T have a current UK passport, then we (our finances are combined) will gladly split the cost.

Re: DS4, as DH is from UK and DS4 will be able to choose which citizenship he wants when he is of age, I need to find out for him. I want to keep his options open too. Smile

MJL2010's picture

DH is UK and US, Sally. Otherwise I would love for him to be able to tell BM to stuff her wants!!! Wink

misSTEP's picture

I was born in Germany and moved to the US when I was quite young. I had dual citizenship until I turned 18. Then it automatically converted to US as I was living there. My parents did not keep a current passport on me my whole childhood. If I would have been traveling back, I'm sure I would have had to have one.