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@aloss's picture

I need help. I have been with my fiancé for 3 years. the ex found out about me, in 2013, hunted me down. He was not allowed to see his kids for various invalid reasons in the beginning, before me. I had heard bits and pieces in the beginning. But I'm one of those people that want to find out for myself not just hearsay. I tried to listen and get my own view from the ex. But new right off the bat shes not right. The huge horrible lies to get me to run away. Didn't work. The daily trouble. excuses to call about the kids yet never a conversation about the kids... she couldn't scare me off so she began using the kids. Filled them with lies their father doesn't want them , he chooses me over them, just very fowl. impossible to see or speak to the kids back then. They hated us both, told them I wanted to destroy the family and I am mean and I am jealous and want nothing more than to keep them from their dad. This was all before they even met me. in her pursuit to prove it was not her it was their idea she told on herself in many many ways. it was all unraveling. she even threatned my fiancé to either come home and be a real father or she would find a new father for the kids. he told her to go do what you need but I will always be their father. within a week she moved a man in and forced the kids to call him dad. so they then began to call me mom. infuriating the mother. told the kids she is nothing to you don't ever call her mom. they called the new guy by his name and the kids were screamed at don't you ever call him ..... he is your father the reason he is your real father is because he lives under the same roof as you. the kids are scared, ashamed, confused, torn, hurt by learning all the lies from all the time stolen from their dad and everything that has been happening. I have watched these kids fail school and in life for 2 years. there is no excuse for it. one child has been kicked out of school so much for bad behavior the school refused to take him back. angry. he is so angry and confused and lashes out. I have tried to get them to counseling for years I saw back then what they were going through and need help. but mother refuses. refuses to help these kids under her roof. its disgusting the games she plays and all to get the man she claims to love who she cant let go of. yet she disrespects him keeps his kids from him lies to everyone about him and I. tells the kids I'm the reason they are failing and so upset all the time. they are in survival mode at this point do what she asks at allst to themselves. they sit around a make fun of me call me names say really really bad hurtful things with her then come to our house and it all comes out. they are lying, stealing, destroying our home. I cant blame the kids but I will not tolerate the behavior. the mother tells them I am controlling their dad and forcing him to stay that he is miserable. yet the kids see us together happy ???? they are old enough to speak for themselves and they don't. they are old enough to be spoke to and yet I am not allowed. if we never speak in bad times how does anything get resolved? they only hear one side, hers, she makes sure of that since I broke the door open about al the previous lies. any time they came to me and asked things I told the truth. why does my dad hate me. he doesn't never has he loves you and would love for you to want to come more often. but mom said... well I'm sorry honey that was not true. got the kdis on the phone one time after not seeing htem for a month and asked why doyou not want to come see me. I don't know. are you mad? I don't know . that's not an answer please tell us why so we can fix it and see you again. ok well idont know let me go ask mom first. they cant even speak for themselves. are told to report everything that happens here on the weekends we have them. yet are told to never never tell what is happening at her house. they are forced to speak when she gets them back and she always takes everything and blows it up into something its not. we are all walking on egg shells all the time we go from comfortable to out of control in a second because she refuses to let us have any peace.
I know he only gets them maybe 4 times a month sometime it months before we see them so she had more time to fill their heads full of lies. she refuses after all
these years to let him go just recently told him she loves him needs him cant let go of him. she is impossible to speak to he has given up refuses to speak at all. so she blames me. wont come in her house and its my fault he has told her I'm done I don't even like you I have nothing to say to you innless its about the kids so of course she keeps the kids in a bad place to have reasons to call at all hours and keep him on the phone for hours. I AM LOST I don't know what to do. we have periods of good times and everyone gets along then out of no where the volcano erupts. and it is destroying the kids. I don't know what to do. she lives an hour away so we cant be there to do more for the kids to make sure they are doing their homework and putting in the time to have a great future.no matter what they do she lets them know its not their fault blames the teachers and me and the dad. she is turning them into greedy kids who believe the world owes them. we didn't get them easter one yr because of their grades they got angry said we only came because you were supposed to get us stuff I want to go home. they turn back and forth one minute nice and happy the next evil I feel like I cant even care any more it hurts too much. to watch them go through the pain to watch as they ruin their chance at a real future. all because he chose to walk away and be happy. will this ever end? whats gonna happen to the kids? do I lock myself in the bedroom while they are here? I don't know what to do.
at this rate they will be pregnant and dropped out of school the other in juvy for not keeping his mouth shut and they are out of control but she is impossible the kids have told me they want to kill themselves that they hate her. I told them you don't hate her your upset. they told me that mom is jealous and said she will do what ever it takes to get rid of me. the kids want to like us and want peace but cant because it makes mom angry. please please please help me before these kids have no future!

Comments

@aloss's picture

thank you, I do feel I care more its not right. he does keep it to a bare minimum it doesnt stop her, 5 million txt emails phone calls it is out of control I told him that's harassment that we need to go to court

@aloss's picture

yes there is a divorce agreement and custody agreement nothing is being followed. the kids are now 12 and 14.

SM12's picture

First off, it is not YOUR job to fix anything. You keep saying what YOU are doing about it but what is your SO doing? Is he allowing her to keep the kids from him? Is there a CO that he can enforce? If not, he needs to get one. Sounds like your SO has sat on his butt and done nothing so far.
The kids are being PAS'd and your SO has done nothing to fight her. She clearly is getting her way which is why it is continuing.
You need to disengage. You have NO reason to call the kids and ask why they aren't coming. EVER. That is up to your SO.

Step away from the drama and let your SO handle it or not handle it as he sees fit.

And reconsider whether this is something you want to deal with for the rest of your life. Do you want to consider bringing children into this nightmare? I would read many of the posts on this site and really take a good look at whether this is how you want to spend the rest of your life.

CompletelyPuzzled's picture

I have been in my SD's lives for 4 years. She is now almost 11. You'd think she would be old enough to think for herself, but it doesn't work that way. My SD lives with me and DH full-time. Her BM has let her down so many times and recently lost all visitation with her. Even still, my SD believes anything that BM tells her and our BM uses this to her advantage. The only thing I can tell you is: You will NEVER win if you contradict her. They will always believe their mom. And, it sounds like she will stop at nothing to hurt your SO. I would do what the others have said, take her to court and get a C/O. Then follow it to the letter. If she doesn't comply, call the cops and have them go get the kids. At least this way, they can see you. But, even so, don't expect them to stop believing their mother. My SD hasn't lived with her mom in 2 years, but she still believes everything BM says.

Solidshadow7's picture

This is very similar to what I recently posted and am hoping for a good response. How do you counteract pathogenic parenting? What can her and her DH do as a team to counteract the BM's poison? Get a CO or use the existing one to enforce EOW visitation. Ideally there is no CO and you get a CO and hopefully get more than EOW. Hopefully you get full custody so they barely see their mother to be poisoned by her. But lets say all you get is EOW. Fine. Enforce it obsessively no matter how many times you need to call the police or take the mother court for contempt. Okay fine, now the angry spiteful PAS'ed kids come EOW kicking and screaming while their mother continues to fill their heads with garbage.
What should the OP do about the fact that BM has turned them against the OP and her DH? How do you fix that?
Taking the high road is useless.

Confront the kids with evidence and truth is one somewhat reasonable solution I have heard.

If I had to wager a guess, I can say that if you trash talk the mother in return, it may backfire on you because she has them the majority of the time, so they will always believe her before they believe you or even your DH. She has way more influence than he does because of the custody arrangement, even though they are both their parents.

When my parents split my father had custody of me. My mother did trash talk him somewhat but I always sided with dad, mostly because I lived with dad 26 days out of the month and saw him behaving reasonably 26 days of the month. So when mom who I only saw 4 days of the month said otherwise, I assumed I knew dad better than mom did. My father never complained about my mother, so I cannot say how it would have effected me if he had. My stepmother did complain about my mother, but I realized that my mother and stepmother had limited interaction, so my stepmother didn't know her as well as me and must have been mistaken. Plus I knew she was the new woman so she just naturally came off as jealous and unreasonable so I certainly would always listen to mom first. Now I lived with her, so I just tuned her out. If only saw her EOW I might have lashed out at her for talking badly about my mom, I am not sure, so be careful.

I think in order to win this you need to be manipulative and smart. It will also be very helpful if your DH can take the lead on this, because his word is worth more than yours to the children.
You will need to teach the kids what they need to know that will eventually allow them to see through her-- but you need to do it without severely trash talking her yourself, because that will only make YOU look bad to them.
You need to do these things gradually over a period of weeks and months, and not all in one sitting.
Start by talking to the kids about divorce and how good parents are supposed to behave afterwards without specifically pointing out what their mother is doing.
Talk to the kids about relationships and how people can somehow behave unreasonably afterwards because they are hurt and angry.
Talk about how DH is much happier with you because him and BM just weren't very good together and are both better off apart.
Talk about love and families and how reasonable people should behave.
Talk about how damaging it can be to children when one parent says bad things about the other.
Talk about children of divorce being torn apart by loyalty conflicts when their parent cannot get along.
Talk about the importance of honesty and of always having a way to back up what you saying.
Even talk about how parents who really love their children will behave, and how some parents only love themselves and are willing to hurt their children to make themselves feel better.
If getting an audience is difficult, then talk to your DH about these things. Frequently. When the kids are in earshot, such as whenever your in the car with the radio turned off without making it clear that you're talking to them or about them or their mother. Get the message across. Comment on peoples behavior when watching movies if you have to. Make sure the kids are exposed to this stuff over and over again until they adopt the beliefs themselves even if having a conversation with the children directly would be a fools errand.
Once you appear to have made inroads with these things, you need to point out or imply that BM is doing exactly what people are not supposed to do without getting carried away and complaining about her insanity until the children tune you out. You need to bring it up in ways that allows them to make the connection themselves, hopefully before it comes out of your mouth.
And if you have any pull or ability to do so, put the kids in therapy.

If all of this fails, meaning if you've been doing these things for 6 months to a year and the nightmare continues on and on, you need to start talking to DH about allowing his kids to not come anymore if they don't want to in order preserve everyone's peace. The mother will damage them less if she feels that she has won, and the damaged children will hurt you and your relationship less if they're not around. Literally everyone benefits. You're not asking your DH to abandon his children, you are asking DH to do what is best for his children in light of what the mother is doing and give his children what they want to preserve everyone's peace and happiness. He needs to know when he's lost. Children who have rejected one parent because the other is a nutjob often come around when they are older.

This is just my best guess. To be honest with you, I don't actually know what to do. I have a similar post in the coparenting forum asking for advice on how to counteract this kind of thing. My issues is still the in the very early stages but my BM is acting just like yours or worse, so I am afraid of ending up with the same problem as you a few years down the line. I am hoping for answers to my post from someone this has happened to and who has won in the end, so I can hear about what they did that worked.