Sometimes it is best to let the SS go until SS learns to stand up to his BM. My hubby and I learned this the hard way. His son was brainwashed by BM to believe that DH was the devil. DH chose to stop seeing SS until SS wanted to see him again. It was a very difficult decision for DH to make. Flash forward a few years later, SS tells his BM that he wants a relationship with his dad. Now he comes by and sees him. It has been a slow process but they have restarted their relationship.

I am not saying that your DH's situation will be helped by doing this. But it worked for my DH. But your DH has to make this decision and clearly tell SS that his door is open for him when he is ready to walk thru it again.

I also advise that Dad let the kid go. Dad can write a note to the boy saying he is old enough to make that decision and when he wishes to see Dad then Dad is as close as the phone.

I would advise delivering this letter in person. Catching the kid coming out of school is a excellent way of pulling off a brief visit without Mom knowing until its too late if at all.

Meanwhile Dad should make modest reminders that he exists by doing the usual things on the kids birthday, Christmas or whatever was normal.

Eventually the kid will return to the fold. They're not stupid and they figure out who is manipulating them.

We have been through this too w/my SD19, and she always comes back around.

Last year SD19 went almost an entire year refusing to speak to her dad or acknowledge him, during a very dark period for him healthwise and being unemployed, and I have still not forgiven or forgotten that one.

In SD19's case I feel it is a manipulation to force DH to do something or give her something that is not good for her. BM cheers this on of course, she is PAS queen.!

The first time this happened I was very worried and embarrassed, in fact that is what drove me to find this site! After several times of this, I just tell people the truth - she refuses to speak to her dad because of X. And the overwhelming response has been - whatever-!!!!

When your DH refuses to accept any ridiculousness from their child, the child has a lot more respect for him than if he kisses the child's *ss, so they will still see him.

Let SS go, he will return. I would be really surprised if he doesn't, but there is that chance if SS allows BM to rule his life? but this is a good way to fight that too.

I agree in NOT sending gifts or acknowledgements for holidays if SS refuses to talk to you and participate in your relationship by calling his dad, not even just accepting your dh's calls, but SS calling too, is my standard.

In the end I think that is what brought SD around, that she was missing out on gifts and visits - really!

We encountered a similiar situation with now-SD15. She and DH had a falling out over something we've yet to figure out and they did not speak for over a year. I agree with letting the kid live with his decision but I also advise that your DH continue with at least birthday and Christmas cards and the occasional email as it strikes him. This was my DH's saving grace when it came time to get in front of the court because the first card XW#1 pulled out was that DH did not have any communication with SD15 for over a year. Getting in front of a conciliator/lawyer and explaining why you allowed the child to run with their decision but have decided enough was enough was rather difficult but showing that attempts were made to maintain at least a written relationship helped him to get the visitation agreement he wanted. The other part of this is that just because DH and SS are not on speaking terms, that does not free up BM's obligation to keep DH in the know. This was a part that we were able to slam XW#1 with contempt for.

Anyways, whatever the decision is, maintain really good documentation -- in the event XW#1 tries something stupid. It's hard enough the relationship between DH and SS is strained - don't need any PAS/manipulation causing additional problems.

Good luck!

I think Dad's are at a disadvantage in any battle for the hearts and minds of their children, because most are not very adept at engaging with their children on an emotional or personal level, and most will not show their feelings enough for their children to empathise with them. Many Dad's have trouble taking conversation with their children beyond the practical and day-to-day, and in most homes the woman is the lynchpin of comunication, the one who is most tuned in to the thoughts and feelings of the children, and the one who is most comfortable discussing personal issues with them. When the marriage fails that can leave you with a BM who is able, and unfortunately often very willing, to manipulate their children's feelings, and win their loyalty, and a Dad who is ill equipped to combat that kind of emotional warfare.

Your description of the BM suggests she's alone, and devoted and attentive to SS. That probably throws up all kind of loyalty/protective issues for SS, who possibly sees his mother as needing his loyalty and support. Unfortunately being a well balanced and responsible Dad tends not to attract the same loyalty.

I know my DH would choose dignified withdrawal everytime, rather than a. risk opening a can of worms and making things worse b. emotionally blackmail his children. Unfortunately he has gone so far out of his way not to emotionally blackmail his children that he has sometimes left them oblivious to his feelings, but overly exposed to the heart-on-sleeve feelings of the BM. One of his daughters, who was 15 at the time, ceased all comunication with us for nearly a year after we told them we were getting married. It was deeply traumatising. Although she never gave any explanation to anyone why she had done this, it became clear that it was motivated by a strong sense of loyalty to her mother, and her own difficulties accepting that her parents marriage was really really over. She felt her mother had got the raw end of the deal.

If your SS is in the sway of these kinds of co-dependent emotions there is little point in legally obliging him to spend time with you, it will only prompt him to dig his heels in further and lead to terrible strain for you and your DH. But I wouldn't think of this as 'letting him go' so much as temporarily neutralising the loyalty battle with the BM. I would advise you to stop pursuing visitation, leave a break of perhaps a month or two, so he can feel the seriousness of his decision as StepAside suggests, then get DH to regularly make contact by email or letter, keeping him up to date on your lives, and making it gently clear that he is loved and missed. After 6 months or so he could give him the opportunity to meet up for some neutral daytime activity - perhaps visiting family, or attending an event. This would give SS an opening to begin seeing you again without it being a confrontation or climbdown. But don't give up on him and don't cease all contact, my DH allowed contact to be cut without making any effort to reach SD15 and I am cross about it to this day. He was paralysed with fear that if he got in touch she would tell him she never wanted to see him again, so he let the silence go on and on rather than hear that. A 15 years old is not mature or rational enough to interpret and understand all these events, or the real feelings and motives of everyone involved. If your DH appears to give up and cease all contact it is quite likely that after a while SS will begin to believe in his own mind that his Dad has rejected him.

Oh and my SD15 eventually came round, partly because she had the peer pressure of her 3 sisters and brother, who continued to spend time with us as normal. She began coming round for a few hours at first, and gradually built up to spending more time here. We now have a happy close relationship with her again.

I may be in the minority with this opinion, but .... if I were your DH I would drag the kid kicking and screaming to my home for visitation if I was your DH. I would have the police at BMs to ward off any crap from her when I picked the kid up for my time.... every time. If the kid did not get in the car, I would have his mom hauled to jail for violating the CO.

Teaching the BM and the kid a lesson that they will not interfere with my time as defined by the CO would be a lesson that they would learn never to challenge me on.

Once the kid is 18 he can decide on his own whether he wants a relationship with his dad. He needs to understand that this is a very important decision because if he chooses to not have a relationship with his dad after his 18th b-day then he gets zero help or resources from dad..... period.

Based on the court decision requiring notification of any medical treatment, I would sue BMs ass off every time she so much as gave the kid an aspirin without my prior approval. If she wants to play games, then play the game and kick her ass at it.

I have zero tolerance for this kind of manipulative crap and I would let my kid and his BM know that they do not fuck with me ..... ever.

I am obviously being my usual amiable and reasonable self on this topic .... Ha!

We had to implement this policy with my SS's BioDad and the SpermClan. They learned not to screw with my wife and that we will follow the judgement to the letter. It did not take much before they realized that they had better do what they were told when they were told or they would feel the wrath of being beaten about the head and shoulders with the judgement.

IMHO of course.

Good luck and best regards,

Being on the flip side of this situation (my 16yo daughter and her Dad do not talk - haven't for several months)... I would actually advise that your husband consider trying to arrange an outing with his son and a sit-down to find out what's going on from the kiddo's perspective. It may have to do with Mom, or it may be something completely different.

I know that if you asked my ex or his wife, I'm behind our daughter's lack of communication. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, I've advised her to just make the first move since one of them has to, and that life is too short to burn bridges this way. What she's upset and angry about is that he stopped returning her calls and then he blew off her 16th birthday. I know she'd left him messages, because I could hear her from the other room (plus - I pay the bill!). And her bday... well... even if he forgot the day, he knew when her party was because I invited him to come down and offered to pay for a hotel for him. He refused - said he had no intention of spending the evening with a bunch of teens AND in my company. She doesn't know I invited him - I couldn't see inflicting that on her.

The point being... unless Dad talks to the boy, he really doesn't know what's behind the refusal. What he's been told up to now may be a convenient excuse, being used to mask a different hurt. Just my $0.02.