Skid Sabotaging Relationship with Parent?
Does anyone else have a skid who seems determined to sabotage their relationship with their parent?
SD15 seems like she wants to be in a constant state of war with her dad to justify why she hates him so much and to force him to always be “the bad guy”. He is always having to choose between either having to ignore her bad behavior or escalating the punishments to have an impact. She seems to relish making him angry and never allows him to be the good guy or there to be any sort of enjoyable family time.
For example, last year when she was living with us, she was failing most of her classes. DH would make her sit at the kitchen table and do her homework, but she would sit there and do nothing. He would sit next to her and badger her into doing assessments. But she wouldn’t turn them in. There was one incident where he had spent hours prodding her to do her geometry homework. When he asked her why she didn’t turn it in, she had a big grin and she said she threw it away. He set up rewards and privileges she could have restored or treats if she passed tests and she would fail on purpose. Her favorite thing to do was doodle on test papers instead of filling in the answers.
Then DH was stuck with having to yell at her for failing and keep taking away more and more things to punish her. It got to the point she had no privileges left to take away and life in our home was unbearable for everyone with her there.
She isn’t stupid and never had academic problems before. This year (now that she’s not living with us) she made the honor roll and scored nearly high enough on the PSAT to be a National Merit Scholar. She was capable of doing her schoolwork, but only refused to piss off her dad. And he’s upset over the fact that while she was living with us, she ruined her high school gpa and will never be able to get into to the type of college she should have.
SD15 rants that she hates her dad, that he enjoys making her life miserable, he abandoned her, he hates her mom, that he likes my son more than her, that she wishes she he wasn’t her dad and so forth. But she brings it all on herself. If she would simply do what she’s told, her dad could actually do anything nice for her. The way she acts, you would have to be insane not to hate her or want to do anything for her.
Even now that she’s living with her aunt and uncle (her BM's brother) nearly 1000 miles away nothing has changed. She barely talks to her dad and when she does, it’s mainly at therapy sessions where she unleashes diatribes on him about all the horrible things she claims he’s done to her and why that is justification for hating him.
With the way she’s treated him, he couldn’t justify sending her a Christmas present, but of course that gets used against him. She loves calling him a deadbeat. He has sent checks to pay for things like school clothes and supplies and they always go uncashed.
SD15 turns 16 in the summer and DH allowed her to take driver’s ed and has been looking into getting her car, hoping that might be something they can bond over and he can use as motivation for good behavior (DH is a car guy. He loves cars).
Yesterday, we found out that her 18 year old half-brother has given her his old Ford Mustang because he’s buying a new car. So, DH had to call her and say she can’t have the Mustang, he doesn’t want her to have that kind of car as a 16 year old and that as her legal guardian, he has to sign off on it and he says no.
So, he gets treated to another rant from SD15 about how much she hates him, that she wants him to f**k off and burn in hell. Everything has to turn into a conflict.
I know I vent a lot about DH’s daddy guilt and it does get to the best of him some times, but this isn’t a divorce situation and he acknowledges that he messed up in the past with his daughter and he wants to be a good dad now, but she absolutely won’t let him. I feel sorry for him since he really does have the best of intentions and he’s a great father to his boys. But with his daughter, he’s in a hopeless situation that will never work no matter how hard he tries.
Probably something he'd never
Probably something he'd never say to her but he so needs to step up and rant to her about acting like a spoiled ungrateful little brat that any intelligent adult wouldn't do a damn thing for a "little kid" acting like a little manipulative bitch and she can shove her mean hateful spiteful attitude right up her butt! That if she acted the least bit grateful that he does care and does continue to try even though she doesn't deserve it that maybe he'd continue to try but know what you little twit enjoy what you've got cause I'm done being your punching bag. (Now mind you if I was him that's likely what I personally would say and then cut her off) daddy guilt sucks I have yet to have to deal with it from my ex or SO I so hope I never do. I'm sorry it has you frustrated and I'm sure it hurts him to have his kid act like that. You can't please everyone.
Dh needs to send her a letter
Dh needs to send her a letter telling her how much he loves her and wants her to be a part of his life and his family and how sorry he is that she feels this way about him. He also needs to acknowledge in writing whatever it was that he did to "mess" up as you put it, she needs to know that he knows what he did and is sorry, even if he has told her a million times, I would put it all in writing for her. Then he then needs to tell her, that he will respect her wishes and back off until she feels ready to discuss things with him.
Maybe backing off will work rather than pushing in. I suspect she knows how much he loves her and is using that to pay him back, to punish him. Obviously she is hurting about something, whether it be the separation or whatever, but until SHE is ready to talk there is not much else you can do. I would sent birthday, Christmas, Easter cards whatever, and include a cheque for birthday and Christmas, and if she cashes it she does, if she doesn't well that's okay, she know what she is doing. Let it go. But I would stay away from contacting her at other times until she makes the first move. I think right now she is just paying him back at her age level, give her some space. Hopefully in time she will come around, and if not, well you cannot force people to like you let alone love you. DH may just have to accept that she may never forgive him. I hope this is not the case, and if he withdraws but leaves the door open for her well who knows she may just come around.
I do not agree with this
I do not agree with this emotionally beat up. Matter of fact I soooo very disagree with your idea of "leaving a door open", it is more like leaving the father lying on the floor just waiting for the daughter to continue to wipe her feet on him.
And the idea of leaving a door open is ridiculas to me- it says that you can mistreat me, hate me, abuse me-but I will still wait for you to change your mind on how you treat me. If abuse victims get the idea that they must leave the abusive relationship-should they leave the door open? NO- cause the person is STILL ABUSIVE.
This "child" is old enough to take responsibilty for HER misdoings in the relationship with her father- the father was/is only being a FATHER for punishing HER misbehavior.
These types of girls(my husband has one who is 18)are out to fuck with their fathers, NOT waiting for a CBS happy family moment.
The want things their way or the highway.
They want to make him pay for whatever percieved slights.
They will grow up and have a miserable life, BECAUSE of the entitled F- YOU attitude they carry around with everyone that doesn't bend to their wants.
With people like that, there is not a sitting around and singing kum baya moment and probably never will be.
That is the reality with people like this.
My husband does not have ANY contact with his daughter- BECAUSE SHE TREATS HIM BADLY. He went through all of the above and more, including lieing, stealing, drugs fake rape accusations, ect.
That is called having some self-respect, you know, not
letting anyone treat you like crap, if you wouldn't put up with that behavior from friends, acquantinces, your siblings, people on the street- why would you put up with it from a teen.
I wouldn't send or do anything to/for this teen- she has shown she DOESN'T want a relationship with her father.
Stepintexas, You have paid
Stepintexas, You have paid out very nicely on a 15 year old who has made it clear she wants nothing to do with her father, and who is not in any way trying to get anything from him. Read the original post. Dad is the one pushing this, she wants nothing to do with it. I do not agree with her behaviour and my post in no way supported the 15 year old treating her father this way, I do not, I would not support a 2 year old treating their father or anyone this way, and at 15 damn straight she knows better. I aso said in my post this 15 year old is well aware of what she is doing - read it again.
The problem as I see it is, dad says he messed up in the past with her (we do not know how), and now he wants to be a good dad, but she wants no part of it. Fine, let it go would be my answer, but as HE is the one pursuing the relationship (not her) and as he according to the poster really wants her in his life, then I suggested he stop chasing her, and constantly trying to buy her love eg: buy her a car,to quote the orignal poster "something they could bond over", but in order to stop him from feeling more guilty about the realtionship he has with his daughter, and giving her more ammunition to use against him, such as, see I was right he has dumped me again I believe it was in HIS best interests not HERS to write the letter, thereby he puts the ball back in her court, let's her decide if she wants to stay away or come back and play nice. That way, dad does not have to feel anymore guilt than he does.
The problem is not so much how the daughter behaves towards him, but more the fact that dad keeps going back for more and is even willing to buy her a car to get more of her abuse. While he keeps pushing to have a relationship with someone who goes so far as to not cash his cheques to let him know she does not want a relatioship it will continue to hurt him and his family. My advice was in fact LET IT GO daughter does not want the relationship, and for DAD's peace of mind, write the letter, because at least that way the door was still open between them, THAT IS WHAT HE WANTS, not me, not her, it is what DAD wants. Dad is already feeling guilty over something, he cannot just walk away, that is why he keeps trying so hard, I was merely suggesting a way dad could back off and not feel too guilty.
Just on your comments in regards to the 15 year old, she may be a complete and utter cow, and she may have brought all this on herself, who knows, but I give her credit for not cashing his cheques. My SD who is no longer welcome in my home, for similar behaviour and she is 30, treated her father like this, but cashed the cheques. Most of them do you know, they hate the dad, constantly abuse him, but still hang around in his life and take the money. I at least give her credit for that. She is not the one hanging around in his life to punish him and get money. She just wants to be left alone. So why bag her.
outtahere.....you been thru
outtahere.....you been thru what I have been thru....
WOT IS GOING ON HERE??? Simply put it down to jealousy
The spoilt 'golden child' so used to getting his/her own way until daddy married....so now this golden child is retaliating by doing what ever they can to get attention and blaming her attitude on the new spouse....
BUT FOR THE BITCH DAD MARRIED I WOULD BE FINE....
Dont put up with this shit....show the child the door and tell them they are not welcome back into your home until they change their attitude and show respect....AND MOST IMPORTANTLY SHOW REMORSE FOR THEIR PAST BEHAVIOUR.
Ah, she sounds like my DH's
Ah, she sounds like my DH's daughter...lol So, he finally disengaged. She is now 17 and has a 1 1/2yr old and another on the way and high school dropout...At some point, especially when the mother is egging her on, he has to just let it be. There's no point in fighting it. Years ago my parents could have beat the crap out of me for saying such things, nowadays, you can't hardly punish a kid that is so out of control...They have allowed her to be this disrespectful by giving in to her way too much and not setting boundaries when she was little...now, it's too late. He can either continue to fight her or just let it be. At this age, there's not much you can do unless you have full custody and can literally lock her up in the house until she "gets it!".
Good luck...
I have opposing feelings
I have opposing feelings myself about the mustang.
On one hand, I agree, what kid that age needs a mustang- it is likely to be a death machine for that age. I have seen it time and time again here in the small town we live in, kids dying from having a bad-ass car.
But, if she is doing good with where she is at and is trying to live her life, then let her- it is less that her DH has to do, be involved with. If she doesn't want to be involved with him, then why force it.
I think the father needs to
I think the father needs to walk away- and stop- he is not going to make a difference in her life either way, short of her being in his home again.
BTW, my DH sent his son to live with ex-inlaws because it was either that or we split up. The kid lived here and pulled the same crap as the OP, kids know they can pull this crap and not tow the line of good behavior at home- act up- and they get what they want- out from underneath authority. Really sad these days.
I get that he raised a hethen, and should have to deal with his bad parenting, but I don't think there is anything he can do, except let her be raised by someone else, at 15/16, he cannot turn it around.
I didn't see where he wasn't supporting her- the OP says they pay for clothes, ect. If that is all he does, and the people she lives with accepts that, I don't see a problem with him not sending CS. Why waste money on a teen- she was able to decide to be a pain in the ass at the father's home, she obviously is happy with her current living arrangements-she is able to work to take care of herself- I say no CS is needed.
In my opinion, if he is not
In my opinion, if he is not paying CS or otherwise involved in his daughter's life- he gets no say in what car she gets, what job she gets, what to do about her school, ect.
As, far as child support, I am going on the assumption that the people the daughter lives with does not want CS. The OP didn't make that clear, but if they don't want it, and he and his daughter are estranged, he doesn't need to pay it.
The estrangement is the daughter's choice, it seems, why foot the bill for her nasty behavior to her father?
Paying CS out of simple obligation teaches her that she can treat everyone she comes into contact with badly and still get her wants met.
And if she is doing well with someone else, great, but she is still not a superstar- if she was, she would not have had the character flaws she had at the father's house- she could have been a superstar there also.
She was INTENTIONALLY not
She was INTENTIONALLY not succeeding at Dad's house. That was HER choice. There was nothing stopping her from doing JUST as well at Dad's as she is now, except her shitty attitude and finding excuses to hate her dad. She was manipulating the situation to get what she wanted.
Let me be clear, SD was an
Let me be clear, SD was an honor roll student BEFORE she came to live with us and had she not been such an ungrateful, hateful brat, she would have been an honor roll student WHILE she was living with us. She also is repeating the classes she failed and should have passed, so making the honor roll is no great accomplishment.
DH offered to pay CS to her uncle, but he turned him down since they don't particularly need it. Things have been very difficult for us in the recession and our home was foreclosed on.
SD was living with her maternal grandmother from the time she was 6 until she was 14 and her grandmother passed away (how we ended up with her). DH had been single and in the military when she was taken away from her mother and her staying with her grandma was the best option. Since that was working out, he never changed the arrangement. He did pay her grandma CS, but she put that money into a savings account, used it for certain expenses (like clothes or activities) but most of it is left. Considering our financial problems, it's always been a sore spot.
With her aunt and uncle, they are treating SD15 as if she's their Au Par and she's babysitting for them, so they feel she's earning her keep and don't want to ask DH for money. If she needs money, she still have the savings account with all the CS he paid to her grandmother.
SD15 doesn't see DH as her dad. She does not call him dad. She refers to him by a nickname and sees him now as an outsider.
No, DH didn’t meet his
No, DH didn’t meet his daughter until she was nearly 2. He saw her 1-2 times after that until she lived with us last year. Her BM was a stupid drunken hookup when he was 18 and desperate to get laid. He got dragged into “who’s the daddy” DNA test a year later since BM was on welfare.
He paid CS to her BM until she was 6. Then he was given full custody since she was taken away from her mom, and he gave guardianship to her grandmother. He paid her grandma that same amount that he paid BM, even though he was legally not required to do so.
She is obviously trying to
She is obviously trying to manipulate every situation and throwing fits when she doesn't get her way. This girl needs bootcamp, and badly.
She appreciates nothing at all. Someone needs to ask her why she thinks she deserves anything. Honestly have her tell you or her dad what makes her so deserving of even a bed to sleep on? She is controlling everyone and everything like a puppet show. He needs to stop trying. He needs to disengage. Leave her standing alone. Give her nothing whatsoever. Not his time, love, energy, money, nothing at ALL! When she has a fit, demanding what the hells going on, he should tell her that SHE has made it very clear that HE is the cause of all her problems. Therefore, HE has decided that in order to help her, he will no longer be involved in her life for fear that he will further ruin it!
All last year I tried to find
All last year I tried to find some boot camp, military school or therapeutic boarding school to put her in, but DH ultimately would not go along with it. I would pay good money to watch her get screamed at by a drill instructor. That’s exactly what she needs. This girl just needs someone to force her to do what she’s told, stop whining and admit that she is the cause of her problems.
Also, for the record, she did sleep on the sofa at our condo. We only had 2 bedrooms and I was not going to waste one of them on that brat. It’s one of the things she always whines about.
She also isn't really demand anything other than to be left alone. She's made it perfectly clear to DH she wants absolutely nothing from him and wants him to leave her alone
My DH is the only one who doesn't understand that the best solution is to walk away.
I don't see why full CS
I don't see why full CS should always be required if an almost adult skid goes to live in another home. That is between the parent and the new guardian. If the new guardian does not feel like the house payment and utilities need to be shared then why should it be. Hopefully the new guardian is not taking them in just to reduce their own cost of living.
Parent should pay for out of pocket expenses (which could include meals)but could deal directly with the skid at that age. Of course he can say no to the car - but no one has to listen to him if he is not paying for it.
"I don't see why full CS
"I don't see why full CS should always be required if an almost adult skid goes to live in another home. That is between the parent and the new guardian."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Exactly, especially if it is the CHOICE of the almost adult to leave the house, or the descretion of the parent making the teen move in with someone else and that someone else not asking for CS.
If I chose to take in my
If I chose to take in my neices, I would not expect to be compensated monitarily from either of their parents...completely my choice to raise teens who I know had bad behaviors in their parent's homes. The person who takes in troubled kids do it for the kids, the parents and to help. Frankly it would show the new guardian as money hungry people taking advantage of the parent if there was a want for CS, IMHO. If you are good hearted to take the teen, knowing full well the teen has many bad behaviors, then you are knowlingly putting yourself in the middle of an obvious hostile situation, where support is probably the least of the issues.
That may be your opinion, but
That may be your opinion, but re-read her ENTIRE POST AND PUT IT ALL TOGETHER- I feel you are focused too much on the father. The focus is on the teen telling her dad to f-off and being entirely too disrespectful.
he cannot take back his poor parenting- BUT she is fully engaged in a hate campaign against him at this time. SHE has a definite responsibilty in how their relationship moves forward...and she is showing she doesn't want one with him.
If we sentence teens in this country to certain crimes as adults, then you have to conceed that this teen is playing by adult rules. She therefore gets treated as an adult.
She's only doing better at
She's only doing better at her aunt and uncle's home because she chooses to do better.
Her failing at school here and behaving like a hateful brat was a conscience decisions on her part.
I hate that this is constantly being used against us. When we would have meetings with her teachers and school counselors here, they would look at her school records and blame us - not the fact that SD15 was actively trying to do poorly to make her dad and me look bad.
Stepintexas you say she
Stepintexas you say she should be treated like an adult, well she is happy to do that isn't she, she is not cashing his cheques, she did not want his car, because although he said NO to the mustang, he was according to the original poster looking around to find a suitable car for her "something they could bond over" and this kid didn't take it.
She wants nothing to to with him, we don't know why. She was not happy living with him, and possibly acted out by deliberately failing classes, that was probably the only power she had to use to get out of that house. Again, we do not know why. But she is not putting her hand out and taking possessions or money from him either is she. In fact he is upset that his cheques go uncashed.
She is asking nothing from dad, he is the one pushing all of this. Clearly right or wrong she wants nothing to do with him, dad doesn't like that and he is forcing himself upon her, he seemingly will not take NO for an answer. You say the OP put far too much focus on the father and not on the teens behaviour I think you are putting far to much focus on the teen. She could not behave this way towards dad if he respected the fact that she wants nothing to do with him. He is ready to move on from whatever happened in the past - she is not. Dad cannot just expect that as he is ready, she has to be too. We do not know what happened, so why attack her. Dad wants her in his life, dad wants to find things to bond with her over, ie: the car, she does not want this. If you want her treated as an adult then as an adult she can have who she wants in her life can't she.
You said treat her like an adult, okay as an adult put yourself in her position, someone, even your father, who you hate with a passion is trying to force themselves on you, trying to make you have a relationship with them, and you HATE this person, are you just going to sit back and be respectful to them or are you going to let them know in no uncertain terms........get lost.
You want her to be treated as an adult, you want her to take some responsibility for the relationship between her and dad, as an adult, but you want her to respect dad as a child should. can't have it both ways.
Logically speaking this is a
Logically speaking this is a slippery slope argument.
If this is the assumption then the questions that need to be asked are:
What about runaways- do they get a CS account set up for them?
What about homeless teens who live in at the Salvation Army- is there a CS account set up for them?
What about teens who move in together and play house, are the parents still paying CS?
You see where I am going with this? There are all sorts of circumstances where CS does not fit in, and the OP just might be one of those.
Sorry I put this in the wrong spot- I was adressing the poster concerned with CS.
You didn't address the issue
You didn't address the issue of when CS is not paid in my above post, nor have you addressed the scenario of the guardians maybe not wanting CS. Not EVERY case of a child not living with parents NEEDS to be a CS issue, furthermore, there are many divorces that are not CS payee/payor arrangements, especially if filed by the divorcing couple in a self divorce.
So, what I am getting is that you sit squarely on the side of the crappy acting daughter- blaming the father for everything, wow, just wow. To me it sounds as if you are a BM who thinks that no matter what BLAME THE DAD.
And, I think that the other poster addressed another logical point: the girl sabotaged herself to get out of the father's house, and continues to sabotage her relationship with him.
Like I said, I think you are not putiing it all together and from what you have focused on, it seems you have a specific bias, so maybe you are not being as objective as you could be otherwise?
Same thing. You seem biased
Same thing. You seem biased and I am trying to understand where it comes from.
The teen is acting in a manner that none of us would put up with, I have dealt with it, DH and I chose not to anymore, and frankly that is what postion frustrated(OP) is dealing with.
Am I misunderstanding your position?
Are you in fact on the side of a teen treating a father badly and empathizing with the teen? Are you saying it is okay for the teen to continiously cuss out her father and treat him badly?
I am not pro-dad. I am a BM
I am not pro-dad. I am a BM also, who seeks to find a fair way to resolve issues.
If my daughter or son treated anyone (myself and their father included) with such disdain and contempt, I garantee I wouldn't feel bad for not providing extras or even more than a sack meal at my home.
Also, you are reading so many assumptions into the situation that you have no idea all of the factors beyond what has been said.
I am a BM and I would not look at it any other way than, a teen trying like hell to get their way, and manipulation and meanness is the way she is going about it.
You are a bitter BM, is my bet.
Once again, you dodged the
Once again, you dodged the questions? Answer them, from the other CS questions I posted earlier and about the ones from above...let your postion be known...or is that just to honest for you?
To be clear, by law: If a
To be clear,
by law:
If a child does actions of emancipating themselves, ie: running away, shacking up and playing house, living in a shelter- that child gives up CS.
As I stated before- the law provides a rememedy for situations where CS is not an issue to be paid or dealt with.
I think you have some sort of chip on your shoulder and cannot look at the big picture of CS without having someone PAY.
There are more cases of divorce in this country and others that CS is not a legal right.
Some courts do not award it, some court actions do not require it, it is not always a necessity in divorce and custody cases.
Running away from home is emancipation and I would bet you would have a hard time getting a CS account for a runaway.
everybody makes parenting
everybody makes parenting mistakes. the best parents a kid could have are going to make mistakes. nobody is perfect. why are you so hung up on this man admitting he made mistakes? at least he is aware of it!
Where in the. OP does it say
Where in the. OP does it say dad doesn't send child support? I read it again and I still don't see that. It says he sends checks that go uncashed...But that doesn't mean CS isn't paid too.
My DH's teens did reside in
My DH's teens did reside in our home with BM not paying.
We took care of all their needs. Period. Unless you count the pot, beer, and cigs BM bought them.
It really didn't bother me,
It really didn't bother me, as I wouldn't have wanted her money to be a reason she would think she could run my home. That is the double edged sword, and quite fankly, it probably would have been drug money.
And asking the question of was it right, really?
Alot of divorced couples have filed on their own, hint, hint, without an attorney and NO ONE PAYS BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT WAS AGREED UPON.
He's is not paying CS because
He's is not paying CS because the aunt and uncle don't need it and we are still struggling financially after difficult times during the recession where our home was foreclosed on. Her aunt and uncle also feel like SD is "earning her keep" by babysitting for them and they are treating her like she's a college age Au Par. She and her half-brother live in their basement which is like a mother-in-law suit.
DH did pay CS (the same payment he paid to BM) while his daughter was living with her grandma. Her grandma placed the CS money in a savings account and only withdrew money when she needed money to buy his daughter things like clothes, doctors appointments, etc. A considerable amount of the money is still left and they have access to it.
DH gave her aunt and uncle temporary guardianship (which was the same as the grandmother had) and is not legally obligated to pay CS.
He is paying for therapist, but that bill comes directly to us because he told her aunt and uncle to set it up like that.
I guess HRNYC didn't like a
I guess HRNYC didn't like a logical argument or to answer some questions on her position, other than siding with a mouthy disrespectful teen.
Now that the CS question was
Now that the CS question was answered to HRNYC's insessant obession... on to the original post being about SD sabotaging her relationship with her father.
Yes she is and IMO your DH neds to stop chasing her.
She will continue to blame him and treat him badly-it is so obvious.
Is he not completely frustrated with her yet?
It gets to a point where as a parent, you have to put your foot down and realize that you can only do so much to extend the olive branch without it breaking.
While she was at the grandmother's house, I am assuming he was active military? Where was the mother and is she being blamed for all the girls ills to by your SD- or does the golden uterus get a free pass from SD?
I know for my DH, it was hard realizing that in his kids eyes, he was always going to be the bad guy.
i know it is frustrating for you to see him chasing after someone who is not interested in being around him.
BM had her kids taken away by
BM had her kids taken away by CPS 10 years ago and her parental rights were terminated when she did nothing to get them back nor even tried to see them after losing them.
Ok, my opinion. She sounds
Ok, my opinion. She sounds horrible but I kind of see her point of view. He had no part of raising her and essentially wasn't around her whole childhood. She lived with her grandma because he was busy with his job. Any kid would be resentful of that. People can be in the military and raise children too, not that it's easy, but it's done all the time.
From her point of view...the man who is supposed to be her father leaves her with grandma because it's easy for him, grandma dies and she's forced to live with the man who she already resents. She obviously doesn't want to live with him or have anything to do with him so she sabotages the situation knowing she will eventually be sent away, which she is. And now, the man who not only wasn't much of a dad and now isn't even paying child support thinks he can call and give his opinion on what kind of car she gets? I would tell him to f-off too.
I don't think your DH is a horrible guy at all, and as a matter of fact I think he probably did the best he knew how at the time. But the fact is, is that he has never really been her Dad, I can see why she doesn't feel he is. He essentially let her down and just because you realize after many years that you were doing wrong all that time and apologize and try to all of the sudden be a real "parent", does not mean she has to forgive. As a matter of fact, she may never forgive him. People come to forgiveness in their own time.
Given the current circumstances, although I give your husband credit for trying to do the right thing, I don't think he should really get a say. He's not raising her in anyway, and never really has. I can see why she would be pissed about any input he has in her life. I would probably feel the same.
I think he needs to back off. Back waaaay off. Maybe when she's older she will forgive and decide to have a relationship with him, but at this point he is just widening the gap between them by butting in. You can't force someone to respect you and have a relationship with you no matter how hard you try. It can't be done.
Spot on forestfairy
Spot on forestfairy
Thanks! I'll be here all
Thanks! I'll be here all night...
WOW Stepintexas, that's a
WOW Stepintexas, that's a turnaround, I said exactly that in my initial post. Dad needs to stop chasing her. The only difference was I acknowledged that DAD really wanted this relationship with her, so in order for him to have a way of not completely cutting all ties with her and hopefully when she grows up, she may decide to talk things over with dad, and so as dad did not have to feel too guilty about not putting up with her constantly refusing a relationship with him thereby hurting him. I suggested he write a letter, let her know he respects her decision and will back off. The only difference was that (and you have said in your posts daughter should be treated as an adult), I felt that dad should also be an adult, take responsibility for whatever has happened, and although he appears to have done so verbally, do it again for the LAST time in writing, and let her go.
My post addressed both DAD's feelings and DAUGHTERS feelings, he keeps throwing himself under the bus, and she keeps running over him. He needs to back off, but if he wishes to leave her an opportunity to come back into his life in the future, then write her a letter and then let it go. There is no way he is going to be able to sit across the table from this kid and have a nice chat about it all. Just because he is ready to move on from the past, does not mean she is. Whatever happened dad has admitted HE messed up, so that would mean, HE did something that hurt her, human nature is that it is easier to move on from hurting someone than it is to move on from being hurt. She is not ready for a relationship with him, she has clearly demonstrated that, now if he truly loves her, if he truly wants a relationship with her, and he is truly sorry for what happened, he will give her some space. To her credit unlike most SD we talk about on this site, this one is at least keeping out of dad's life, not hanging in there to punish him and make his every day to day life and the life of his wife miserable, she wants nothing to do with him, and again to her credit, when he sends cheques, she does not cash them, so she is giving and taking nothing from her dad. My SD and from the sounds of it your SD and a zillion others here, hang in there, making dad's and the new wife's life a misery, constantly make dad feel guilty, are always asking for something, and would always cash the cheque. In this case dad may have said NO to the mustang, but he was looking for a car for her something they could bond over and she did not even take that. Mine would have taken any car she could get and sold it on the way home. This kid does not appear to be greedy or spiteful, she just at this stage wants dad to leave her alone. We do not know what happened, we cannot judge her. All we know for sure is that dad is trying to have a relationship with her and she doesn't want that.
Not a turn around at all, I
Not a turn around at all, I said in the first post to walk away. What I disagreed with you on was the suggestion of the father to write a letter and leaving the door open.
I think that the father has made it clear to his daughter how he feels, and there is no need for him to lower himself to writing a letter of which she wouldnt accept.
I think no matter how he spells out his feelings and no matter how often, his daughter will still punish him.
As far as leaving a door open, I stick by my original post...it is a way for the daughter to continue to treat him badly...IMO it is still a "way of chasing" and it is degrading.
I do not understand anyone leaving a door open, I have an ex friend who betrayed me and I firmly shut the door and locked it, meaning our friendship is done. She would have to do some real hard work to try and get me to unlock the door and even then, I do not want a friendship again- too much water under the bridge.
My abusive exh has no door left open for him either.
I think it is a nice counseling term, but it essentially means that you are willing to wait for the person who has damaged the relationship to change their royal mind and change their behavior- THAT RARELY HAPPENS. People are who they are and waiting for them by leaving a door open is like being a doormat.
My offense to your post was strictly on those two ideas, not the rest.
In my DH's situation, the door is not open- his kids have to knock and do the work to earn a relationship with their dad, after all, THEY are the ones who damaged it, and for them to admit that and fix it with him is what will unlock the door. The probablilty of that happening is small.
Mistakes DH made in the past
Mistakes DH made in the past doesn’t justify his daughter being a hateful brat or making things utterly unbearable in our home. She still defends her mom despite the fact that her mom abandoned her and let her be abused. Yet SD will never forgive her dad or let him forget all the supposed horrible things he did.
The only reason SD15 is living with her aunt and uncle is because her behavior was so intolerable that I gave DH the ultimatum - either he forces her behave and to apologizes to me and my son or he was going to find some other place for her to live. He chose the later. He has full custody of her and there is not reason she isn’t living with him other than she decided to misbehave to punish her dad.
The only reason SD15 is doing better with her aunt and uncle is that they give her what she wants and treat her as if she is an adult. She refused to cooperate at all when she was living with us, was on purpose defiant and refused to do anything either DH or I said. She could have simply tried to get along, done what her dad and I said and she wouldn’t have any problems with failing 9th grade.
I also do no understand why are DH and I bad parents because SD chose to fail school and be disrespectful while living with us, while her aunt and uncle are parents of the year because SD chooses to do well in school for them? Why are grades the only judge of whether she is or isn’t doing well? She still cusses out her dad, yet her aunt and uncle are better parents?
I don't think anyone has said
I don't think anyone has said you were bad parents, but I may have missed it. My thoughts are, for your husband to stop chasing her until she catches him that's all. Kids will always defend their mum's, even if they know the truth themselves, they will never let anyone else say anything about it, your own kids would do the same for you.
I get that your DH's mistakes
I get that your DH's mistakes do not justify his daughter's nastiness to him and your home. And...if you ask me, he probably did what he had to do for his daughter's security...a grandmother's home is safe usually and to have his daughter stay in one place with a comfortable life and stability...well how dare him,lol. I get he had to work, in the military, never sure when, where, and how long he was going to be stationed at. I can honestly say, it seems as he had her living with grandma because not only would that be difficult for him to parent alone, but it would have been hard for his daughter to have to upheave each time he had to, and not have a stable woman in her life.
Her behavior to you two in your home is simply a girl who has no respect and puts everyone else at risk.
I wouldn't leave the door open, let in sink in that she is actually responsible for where the relationship with her father goes and how she treats people. Period.
As far as the car, I do think your DH has her safety in mind, but, I think it should be a decision that he defers to the uncle, teling the uncle his feelings on it.
To be clear, he's been out of
To be clear, he's been out of the military for 4 years now, but he did not want to move her since she was doing fine with her grandmother and she did not want to move.
And her uncle will let her do anything she wants. He defers to DH and treats her like a guest living in his basement.
Ya know, I don't have kids of
Ya know, I don't have kids of my own and maybe my viewpoint is jaded. Why does he keep trying? She's ALWAYS going to be his daughter so she'll come around when she's ready - no?
SD just sounds like a spoiled
SD just sounds like a spoiled brat and it is probably her and every other 15 year old's dream to get rid of parental involvement . ..and the aunt and uncle bought it??!! Unbelievable.
Re. Car he can say whatever he wants. He is her parent, no matter what her teenage opinion is of how he did, really???? and parents dont have to pay money, to put limits on their kids. The uncle doesn't need support is why DH doesn't pay, but that does not forfeit the fact that he is the parent.!!
She sounds like a royal pain like most 15 year old girls and I say don't send her anything. My door would be closed, in fact it was closed re. My SD when she did the same thing, at the same age!!
So this is typical, not some unique flower case and she needs to take her own self inflicted lumps, and learn to respect her DAD. Imo@!!
DH has full custody of his
DH has full custody of his daughter, so it’s not easy for him to walk away no matter how much she has made it clear she doesn’t want him in her life. He is her only parent. Her aunt and uncle took her in as a last resort since things weren’t working here and otherwise her half-sister was going to have to take her while being in college full-time. SD15 is living rather autonomously in their basement with her half-brother and he’s more of the “parent” than her aunt and uncle. It’s nothing I would approve of but the last thing in the world I want is that brat back in my home, so I’m not going to complain. But DH sees it as temporary and wants her to finish HS here.
I’ve been urging him to walk away from his messed up situation for years and to put himself and our family first. This girl is beyond hope and is only going to keep dragging him down and setting him up for disappointment after disappointment.
Unfortunately, he’s refused to walk away. Perhaps telling him to “back off” is a better way of phrasing it. Still, it’s not an easy thing to convince him to do. He has been so upset that there have been times he’s turned into a crying, sobbing mess over “missing his little girl growing up”. Getting him to let that go is going to be difficult.
I wish he would stop blaming himself since even though he’s made mistakes, no matter what he does, this girl is hopeless because of her BM. I hate that he sees himself as a failure as a father just because of this girl, since he’s been such a fantastic father to my DS.
Well, I tried. I sat DH down
Well, I tried. I sat DH down and tried to convince him the best thing to do is back-off and let his daughter make the first step if she chooses to have a relationship with him and that he needs to be prepared for the fact that she likely will not and he needs to accept that and move on.
He completely ignored me and said that the therapist said that he needs to keep taking the abuse from his brat so that he can show her he's in it for the long haul and won't abandon her. (I call that utter BS)
Any recommendations for books that aren't the ridiculous psychobabble crap and actually holds kids responsible for their actions? Seriously, DH says that he ignores what SD15 says because she's just angry and hurt kids say things they don't mean. I want to shake him and tell him to wake up from the Daddy Guilt and actually parent this child. No way in the real world does anyone get to cuss you out and you smile and respond with "empathy"?!?!?
He called SD15's half-brother and talked to him for over an hour about the car situation and he now is convinced that a 18 year old will be responsible for a 15/16 year old's driving. :jawdrop: So, DH is going to sign off on the Mustang and pay for insurance.
DH also is going to take up some tools with him the next time he flies up for one of his visits/family therapy sessions to help the half-brother with his new truck. Apparently, DH's approach is to win over SD15's half-siblings so they don't hate him any more.
There is no ends to what Daddy Guilt will get men to do.
There is a world of
There is a world of difference between backing off and abandoning her. Also any therapist who feels that a party has to take abuse from someone in order to show them that they are in for the long haul needs therapy.
I completely agree. Maybe
I completely agree. Maybe when dealing with a small child who doesn't understand what they are doing, but SD15 is nearly an adult and should be treated accordingly. She gets absolutely no empathy from me for her behavior.
The child has some serious
The child has some serious anger issues and needs to get the correct therapy. She can and will blame Dad for most of it but if the therapist is good she can help her tunnel her anger elsewhere. They are her feelings and she is entitled to them.
Leave the door open but don't push. Stop the drama and disengage, send a card for birthdays, christmas, whatever you wish..
I know of several kids who have been told that if they don't apologize for such as such they are no longer welcome ~ REALLY? too bad kids can't do this to adults ~ do adults really think they never hurt a kids feelings? whether intentional or not. but kids can't demand an apology.
I feel for this Dad, he so wants to be in his daughter's life and she is denying him that.. for whatever reason. Don't buy her love, as it doesn't matter what you give her it will never be good enough. This child is in pain. Let the pain heal and hopefully it will, if it doesn't, by having some communication with her, through an occasional card or email or phone call.. may eventually turn the tide.
I don’t know how to get
I don’t know how to get through to him to do this and I want him to fire this crazy therapist, but it’s not my choice.
DH keeps saying over and over again that he’s missing out on his little girl’s childhood, but unfortunately, that’s her fault now, not his. He believes if he doesn’t do anything now, then she will end up estranged from him and they will never reconnect, and I do agree with him. DH has barely seen his own dad since his parents divorced years ago and they have no relationship.
DH has estimated that he’s only spent about 325 days with his daughter her whole life (15 1/2 years). Only 1 Christmas and 2 birthdays. He swore last year when her grandma died that he wasn’t going to miss another day, and then a few months later he was forced to let her go stay with her half-sister then move her to her aunt and uncle's and another Christmas has gone by and he’s devastated.
He’s a good guy who’s got himself into a very messed up situation with a girl who was already ruined by her BM and it’s in everyone’s best interest that he just walk away and wash his hands of this whole mess. But it’s going to take a lot more heart break for him to accept that.
He already missed out on her
He already missed out on her childhood and he can't get it back..
to move forward he needs to accept that.
But there is no reason to think that there cannot be a relationship going forward as a teen or as an adult.
Sorry to say that she may get to "dictate" what that relationship is, not him. All he can do is sit back and let it happen or not happen. The more he keeps chasing her the more she is going to withdraw.