I would tell my husband (if he got knocked on the head and had brain damage because this is the only way he would ever want to think like this) that it is about time he visited his daughter in her home town. It would be nice for him to go and visit her without the feeling of tension and he deserves time alone with his daughter.

Do not discuss the daughter. If he announces she is coming to stay for a week, inform him he needs to spend time with his daughter without you because her attitude is unattractive. However he is welcome to entertain her himself and you will be spending the 7-10 days at a hotel

I suspect once you are not around to act as a buffer he will realise what a slug she is. Or he won't and you won't have to put up with her.

I have come to believe some parents don't want to agknowledge how awful their kids are because that is unAmerican. So instead when the s/parent voices what they secretly know in their heart, the truth is out there and all the parent needs to do is agrue about it. The s/parent is the fall guy.

:jawdrop: Oh my!! This situation sounds familiar. I have been dating someone for over 2 years now who has 3 "adult" children (20, 23, 25). The son (23 y/o) is the only one left in the house, and the 20 y/o moved back in with the ex-step parent because she could not take the narcissist son anymore! I do not have children. So, the person I am dating is a Dr., and is a therapist - and so am I...which makes for a doubly interesting situation. We both know that narcissism develops from trauma-related experiences, so our approach with him (mind you I do not live there) is understanding and we never yell or get angry - as the response will only promote defense mechanisms. However, he is verbally abusive, and feels that he can go off the handle for 3-4 hours into the middle of the night, while his mother just sits there and tries to provide what he needs to hear. However, he goes off on her all the time, and is abusive.

So, in my opinion - she is acting more like his therapist than what she really needs to act like - which is a parent with clear, firm boundaries. In some ways - I feel that she is promoting the narcissism by not being as straigh forward (in a kind way) that she needs to be...which may be forcing him into moving out. I'm sure it is difficult in her position, knowing what she knows about trauma, etc. - however also appears somewhat blind to the situation because it is her son. Her two other kids are fine with us, and know that he is not right.

More recently I've talked to her about my feelings, and what I feel might be helpful (e.g. setting more firm boundaries, providing therapy information as to who to see). My concern is about witnessing the verbal abuse, as there have been times where I step in the room where it is going on because I cannot tolerate it - then he goes off on me and tries to wedge himself between us and create problems (e.g. "why is she here when I need to talk to you"). She needs her time with her kids, but when it comes to abuse - I cannot tolerate it. She shouldn't either.

Any suggestions? Recommendations?

Our days of dealing with my Husband's daughter, whom we finally came to understand, has narcissistic personality disorder (she's 37) are over, but it took 7 years of dealing with her to get to that point. My good fortune was that from the time we agreed to marry 6 years ago, my husband assured me that we were a bonded couple and that his difficult children would not come between us.

Of course, that was not perfectly true. His daughter, a very highly paid professional, increasingly stepped up her punitive treatment of her father for remarrying and the problem we had was that he took it out on me. Being a counselor, myself, I asked him to go to therapy so I didn't have to be his therapist in the situation, so he went for 3 years. It allowed me to be a wife with all the feelings and reactions to the situation that were normal. We were fortunate that in the 2nd year of therapy, she moved half way across the country. Her abuse of him was withholding love in the form of distancing and silence and it felt less painful from a distance, but it still went on in full force. While she was nearby, it grew from 2 months to a year at a time. When we did see her, she would be cold to him when they'd formerly had a close relationship. We all went to the beach the first year (she was 30) and she clung to him like a jealous 13-yea-old, smiling at me coyly, had 6-year-old tantrums when she didn't get to pick the evening restaurant, and pretended to have an ingrown tonail (she didn't) that I was to nurture for her (she's a physician).

Sigh. I took it all in my stride, I think both because I tend to be laid back around people but also because the behavior was so shocking I didn't know what else to do!

It was my husband who was directly and definitely threatened with loss of her love, as so many dads with daughters like this threaten, but she actually did it instead of got in our faces and made us miserable in our home. I was just invisible to her. Perhaps her reaction ws because her dad consistently confronted her with great courage. This is not a disorder to coddle, like I've read above. This is a disorder that cannot be worked with. Parents of adult children make this mistake instead of taking care of their own relationships, where the real emotional food is.

Finally, a year ago last summer, the daughter got married and with no warning, did not invite her father. He'd been exchanging letters with her for two years, but she lied to her new family and brother that they had not been in touch in that long and there was no reason to invite him. She also lied in the last of those letters to her dad that no one in either of the bride or groom's family was coming to the destination wedding in the Carribbean except her brother, but the cd with pix and video the son gave his dad showed otherwise. The grooms extensive family was there and very few people for the bride.

After that, she wrote a newsy note to her dad two months later, as though they were still communicating. Since she rarely wrote first, I knew she was testing the waters after excluding him (and her mother) from her wedding. He wrote her back a loving but firm note that their relationship was at an end, that she seemed happy and he was glad for her but that there relationship was no longer working. No argument from her, no communication since then.

With that weight off of us, our marriage has grown happier and more secure. Still issues with the son who is bonded to the sister from childhood (mother was mentally ill) and that causes occasional problems, but nothing like we went through from the daughter. We hear she has over-extended herself in a grand home, expensive car and grand vacations, but that business is not going well. Well, she has a husband to work on that with now. Not our problem.

My husband continues the same tough love with his son, who recently told his dad he doesn't like our marriage, that we were both too strong willed, and didn't want to come to our home. This from a man who married an 11-year-youger woman who'd been a stripper for 6 years, was bipolar and got pregnant by another man while they were married - the marriage lasted 3 years. She's now in another state, prenant by someone else again. Funny, the son and she were having to go through fertility treatment because of a problem she had. The fertility problem must have been that they slept in separate bedrooms from the beginning of the marriage. This son is not liking our marriage??? Goodness.

Don't get me wrong. My husband was terrified of losing the love of his children. That's why he allowed the daughter to go on hurting him so long, but he finally burned out - and had a lovely male counselor to talk with - who by the way, never really gave up hope they could reconcile. And yes, my husband's just as worried about losing his son. But he feels he and I are his life. We spend our days and nights together and do not live with them. They could be a pleasant addition to our lives and visa versa, but they aren't and they, not we, chose to live like this. We are old enough in our 60's to know we need peace and safety, not to be battling for what does not exist.

My son calls us "his parents," and shows up for holidays, treats us well, takes care of our computers and there is peace. My parents adore my husband and all of this puts my husband's children into the perspective they belong in. He knows he doesn't have to turn into a pretzel to be loved and doing that isn't worth it anyway - not when it brought chronic upset to our lives. After each incident, we'd be upset for a week and venting to one another. But it took a lot of years to get to that point. I like to say I cried enough tears over the matter to cry for a week. But the parent of the troubled child/children simple has to take a stand and hold it and without arguing with the child who's enmeshed and engaged in the destructive behavior. Let them go work it out somewhere else. This is the limit, period.

There's a book called Step Wars for older people who marry and the adult children cause trouble. It was renamed in subsequent printings, but I think you will find it under that to get started. It helped us. It allowed my husband to see that he was not alone in the problem. Not enough is written on this topic. I recommend this reading - good luck and courage to all.

Peace in Ohio

My SD is like this too. She is so cheap you can't get a needle up her butt with a sledge hammer. She has a very good job, makes decent money but expected us to pay for everything whenever we visited her or she and hubby (who always orders the most expensive thing on the menu) visited us. One time when we were out to dinner we decided to wait them out. We all sat there for what seemed an eternity. Daddy finally broke down. After that, I made an agreement with DH: He would pay for dinners with his family and I would pay for dinners with mine. This Christmas will be interesting since she was banned from our house due to her behavior last Christmas. She came over, made cookies for all of her friends in my kitchen, treating me like I was invisible. I rated one cookie. And the 'gift' I recieved was a minute jar of apple sauce and an outdated bottle of sugar water from her cupboard. The Christmas before last we didn't rate as much as a phone call.

Question. I suspect my SD16 is a a narcissist too. OK my Mum who is a psychologist is sure of it. Just realised that I may have made a mistake in buying her very lovely antique earrings for Christmas. This is me unfortunately. I cannot help doing what I think I would have liked at that age. Trouble is SD16 is so much like all the descriptions above (and more) that I had the reread it all with amazement. Describes her entitled and rude behaviour. Currently in the process of punishing Daddy for his first shaky attempts at parenting and discipline. Imagine a child who has been getting $100 per week since she was 13 oh and straight after Mummy and Daddy split up. Good one Daddy. Am I enabling her by buying her nice presents when her behaviour to me does not warrant it? Too late this year because DH knows but I would love advice from those experienced with our special narcissist friends.

These are very funny responses. A good laugh is wonderful medicine at this stage. Thankyou for sharing and really I should not be crashing the adult step child forum but hey my SD16 is a totally hardened and scary Lolita mini-wife so I claim honorary membership. The way she insisted Daddy be the only one that drove her to the semi-formal (friends not allowed in the car until Dad insisted) in her strapless red dress and layers and layers of make-up. Clue to NPD origins when her Mummy cancelled her music lesson because a whole day of beauty, hair and professional photography was booked for a 15 year old's semi-formal. Wow I am being a total B...h and do you know what, it is fun. What an outlet.

Unfortunately the $100 per week was done before I came along. In the court orders no less. DH decided it was a way to shave $100/week of ex's weekly hand out apparently. Think it is one of the poorest parenting decisions I have heard of. Have beaten him up for it endlessly though and need to back off now. I think it should be stopped and he should associate money as reward for tasks for a 16 year old. It is madness! What can I do?

I had a gut feel that her Christmas gift was a mistake as I walked out of the store, if I were honest. One of those crazy nice person Christmas moments of pretending the world is a good place. My weakness has been projecting good emotions onto my inherited narcissist. Why does SD16 and narcissist seem such a common link? I only met mine 2 years ago and have been thoroughly punished and worked over for my diminishing bouts of niceness. All efforts and gifts and compliments are just sucked into Vampira's void of selfishness and craziness.

SD16 gets good marks. Like edwina7's SD much is made of her dedication to study. Do you think our DHs just cling to things? Do they really put these young women up on pedestals or is it all guilt? What about real virtues like integrity, honesty, empathy, caring for people, unselfish actions, work ethic and manners. Wow I am angry aren't I? Sorry this a full on vent. Do you know that not once has DH16 said thankyou for my cooking dinner. I have a couple of university degrees which I got by working my arse off cleaning and waitressing all the way through Uni whilst doing a double degree. But in my household after al that I am just a meal provider. Maybe that is why, yes I am just going to write it, I do not like her style of entitled young woman. I raise my lovely little boy well and have had both full and part time jobs all the way with him because I had to. He is 4 and voluntarily does tasks to help out in the house. I am not kidding. He likes to take plastic bottles to the bin or put his cup in the dishwasher. Meanwhile SD16 has not once said "Thankyou for dinner" or volunteered to do a task. Oh I get it, it is because she is a narcissist. It is never going to happen. She cooked dinner once in 2 years because for once her Dad parented and we incorrectly gave her lots of praise. "You did a great job. You are a good cook etc etc." The answer, yes you guessed it. "Yes, I know."

Thankyou for freeing my inner angry person. I really appreciate it because actually I need to get control of myself soon tonight. Thankyou, thankyou. I get it the world revolves around her in her head and her parents have enabled and funded it. We are just servants and nobodies. Detachment is the only way. No guilt just even more detachment. I love you fellow evil step mothers. Thanks to you I have invested solid time is reviewing information about how to deal with and communicate with narcissists. Unfortunately the first piece of advice "distance yourself as much as possible" is not physically easy for me right now with a young son in the house. Do you want to hear scary after being jealous of an disdainful to my little boy she has now figured being nice to him creates reflected glory for herself. Praise from Daddy and attention from friends. Poor little fellow is delighted in her recent attention to him and then sad when cold shoulder is turned the moment he is not someone to show off with.

My God I am in need of this vent. PS I am sorry for your SS from above. Dragged my DH to counselling too and the light has slowly switched on. Slowly slowly slowly.

I could never get good at ignoring someone in my company, in my home, in theirs or in public. I think it is an awful way to have to live. My SD however had no problems with it for so many years each and every time she was in my prescence she made a show of "isolating" me, it was just awful. Eventually my only recourse was to, after a particulrly distressing incident, ban her from my home. 8 years of it and I can honestly say I never got used to it and I never would. Why would I accept being treated like that my entire life and why should I sink to that appalling lack of manners, I have no wish to be like my SD.

I can not Thank you all enough. To know I am not alone. I honestly did not know what to call my step daughters behavior. Until NOW !
My breaking point was last week. She got news that she needed a c-section so she says. And, low and behold she scheduled it for 4/9/12, April 9th is the day I myself lost my daughter due to a still birth. And, even though it has been 24yrs., that day is very hard. And, to know that and schedule a c-section for that very day, then condeme me for not wanting to have to deal with anymore than just getting through the day, pissed me off. And, as far as her Dad yep, I am the bad guy, God forbid I not praise the nut case.
Almost 9 yrs. ago we had a daughter together, and it started a little while before with her antics. She first would go after my son. But, 3 months prior to my due date I was admitted with serious health problems. They did not know if I or the baby would make it. During the whole ordeal and me being an hour away from our home. I got to hear how he could not stay his daughter was afraid to go in the house alone, she is crying. Just to be clear she was a senior in HS. She doesn't want to stay at a friends, so he would leave. The day before they took her, the nurses told him he should not leave. That due to my condition it would be a spur of the moment choice to take the baby. he left because of her. And, yes I that day going through hell all alone. No he didn't make it to be with me for her delivery. He had to go pick her up and then come, because she was whinning. Two weeks I spent trying to manage my son then 8 at home, and him and the SD. The night before she could come home, he swore he'd stay. SD did not want her to come home, she wanted us to wait until after the holiday to bring her home.He sent my parents home giving us his word he would stand up to her and stay. Well,I had to have my Dad come pick me up the next day with a 3 month early baby in tow to deal with all this.

Needless to say, I feel like I have been in a living hell most of the time. Sure I manage, but this last stunt I don't think I can get past.

I know that they twist things make us think we are nuts when it's them, BUT I mean how do you get past this ? I mean every year now for my granddaughters BD, I am going to have to either dye a little more or have a huge blow up to try and keep what sanity I have left. And, my little girl that is caught in the middle of this mess. Her sister, her sister's kids, I mean i see no way out. I do not trust this girl at all. If I leave my husband how do I protect what she sees as a threat, my daughter. How do I keep her from safe ?

I am sorry for any spelling mistakes or for being all over the place. I'm just so alone in all this and there has been so much and right now it's so raw it's hard to put it out there.

I could really use the feedback as to how any of you would handle this, with the baby. Or the whole mess really. But, right now I need some feedback to help me stand my ground that I am not the one being unreasonable.

Any advise would be so helpful. Thanks !

I know where you're at with wanting to protect your kids. But no-one else but her can choose when she has her c section. You have to tell yourself she had medical advice to do it on 4/9, even if you suspect that's not true. It's the only way to deal with it. And just never get involved in any of her birthday celebrations, that can be your "you" day where the rest of the world is shut out. Start a new post and give more information, you will get a lot of responses.

I found this forum and all of the comments a relief. I honestly thought I was alone.  My husband and I own a business and my stepdaughter believes it belongs to her. She's even said so to me in front of my husband. She has said hateful things to me when he's not around but is super sweet in front of him. I broke down recently and told him some of the hateful comments she's made. So now I'm the villain.  He wont do counseling. So I'm thinking the marriage will end as soon as we sell our business.  

I have been dealing with 35 year old Narcissitic SD for 15 years. My husband is much to afraid of her and her taking away the crumbs she toss him, to stand up to her. I am always the villain. I finally stood up for myself 6 months ago or so. She has now really stepped up her games. 

She is now super sweet to her Dad. He is back in mini-wife heaven. I can now see that he is as sick as she is. He created this mess, and created his daughter to the evil, manipulator she is. The pattern here with all of this is that they make you out to be the bad guy.  These fathers of these daughters can't live with the fact that they created these evil evil human beings. So they bury their heads in the sand. It really is sick. 

I asked my husband exactly what I did that he feels gives his daughter the right to abuse me. He has no answer. He wants me fixed so that it will no longer bother me and she can go on abusing me and they can have their mini wife marriage.

I am not the one who needs fixing. I now realize that after 15 years of  tearing myself apart. No one but no one has the right to abuse someone just because they married the abusers father. After reading many articles about emotional incest. It is 100 right on in this cases. These me substiture their martial emotional relation with their daughters. The daughter end up thinking the father is their property. They also feel their fathers are cheating on them with another woman.(you). 

It doesn't matter if the mini wife gets married she still feels that her father is her property and has no right to cheat on her. 

Really really sick on both father and daughters part. 

I usually ignore really old posts - but this one caught my attention.  Especially the posts from she she’s driving me crazy in my retirement.   The Twitster only got worse.   

I do not have a sd - but the best thing I ever did was to ban my SS from my life 100%.